View Poll Results: Do you want to ...

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  • Have both new and old UI systems implemented?

    52 47.27%
  • Remove the old UI system and keep the new one only?

    58 52.73%
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  1. #1
    Redeemer
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    Default Do you want the old UI System to be removed?

    While I'm happy like everyone else with the heavy release of the May version, I find it disappointing to remove the old UI System. Why force developers to buy Flash when UDK is a free engine? Why can't we have both systems available? Teams who wish to have the fancy UI stuff running on their games, they can buy Flash and get on with it. Other teams who are not really interested can use the old UI system for FREE. I believe that freedom of choice should be there.

    So, do you really agree with removing it?
    Last edited by seenooh; 05-26-2010 at 06:31 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Keeping the old system in means one of two things. Either Epic has to spend resources maintaining it (unacceptable) or they just mark it as depreciated and keep in in. In the second case bugs begin to creep into it from other changes in the engine as the months go by. At first it works, then its got a lot of weird issues, and then finally something major will break and make the whole thing unusable. You'll be in the same boat you're in now.

    The difference is that this way 100s of other poor suckers won't start out trying to use a glitchy deteriorating system that's doomed to eventual failure and come here daily to complain about how the UDK sucks.

    Plus Canvas is still in. You can do a whole UI without Flash just using that if you really want. So yeah I really do agree with the change.
    Last edited by Makaze; 05-26-2010 at 08:33 PM. Reason: Typo

  3. #3
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    Yes, I agree with removing it. I believe in keeping things clean. Having two seperate UI systems around doesn't seem clean to me, and will probably be confusing to newcomers as well. Besides, scaleform seems much more powerful.
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  4. #4
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    I'd be happy to keep the old one tbh. I actually got used to and managed to do pretty cool things with it like a crafting system for a MMO and an inventory system, a shop/mall.
    Now that UIScene is going to be taken out, I have to start from scratch, 7 months worth of hard work going to the trash.
    I know like nothing about flash and always tried to stay away from it because of it's strange way of working, kinda have to think backwards, which is illogical, to me.

  5. #5
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    I'm not agree for removed the old system, because for support old game/project on the udk it's hard. Futhermore, they have no free flash editor for make gui for scaleform, so, I think it's good and practice to remove the system.

    But, it's hard to have two system at the same time I think, because they are two way for drawing a HUD, it's could be make some performance problems (I think).
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  6. #6

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    Removing the old system will screw a few people over. Including me.

    I don't own, nor do I plan on buying Flash. And if I were to get Flash, I don't know any ActionScript.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by gegebel View Post
    I'd be happy to keep the old one tbh. I actually got used to and managed to do pretty cool things with it like a crafting system for a MMO and an inventory system, a shop/mall.
    Now that UIScene is going to be taken out, I have to start from scratch, 7 months worth of hard work going to the trash.
    I know like nothing about flash and always tried to stay away from it because of it's strange way of working, kinda have to think backwards, which is illogical, to me.
    Then don't upgrade. Simple as that.


    UIScene and Scaleform together, occupy several megs of ram needlessly, and a lot of other resources, as well.

    There's not much point to this discussion really -- in with the new, out with the old. That's the way it's always going to be. Shader Model 2 support goes away in the June release, which will force me to buy a new video card, if I want to upgrade. Will actually force me to upgrade the video hardware on -3- computers. Eventually, someday, everyone will have DX11 cards, UE3 will have DX11, and one day they'll remove DX9 support. Maybe someday they'll change video codecs, and all your BINK encoders and BINK encoded movies will be useless (that is just speculation on my part, just a hypothetical) ..

    That's called progress.
    Last edited by Blade[UG]; 05-27-2010 at 04:38 AM.
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  8. #8
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    With UDK being free I have to say that unless Adobe do something to support UDK with an open licence piece of software to edit flash, then the old ui is a must.

    To drop it will alient the very people Epic is trying to reach, indy game devs. Folks in their bedrooms/garages.

    When you start to exclude them through the need to purchase high cost software, then the UDK experiment has failed.

  9. #9
    Redeemer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blade[UG] View Post
    Then don't upgrade. Simple as that.
    That's a temporary solution. I'm not going to upgrade, but why should I be prevented from the extra features/fixes ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blade[UG] View Post
    UIScene and Scaleform together, occupy several megs of ram needlessly, and a lot of other resources, as well.
    Epic can introduce some feature where you can enable one of the UI systems. If Scaleform is enabled, then the UIScene stuff doesn't get loaded and vice versa. I don't think that this is something complex for Epic to implement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blade[UG] View Post
    Maybe someday they'll change video codecs, and all your BINK encoders and BINK encoded movies will be useless (that is just speculation on my part, just a hypothetical)
    We can use converters in that case. That's not a big problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blade[UG] View Post
    Shader Model 2 support goes away in the June release, which will force me to buy a new video card, if I want to upgrade. Will actually force me to upgrade the video hardware on -3- computers. Eventually, someday, everyone will have DX11 cards, UE3 will have DX11, and one day they'll remove DX9 support.
    Upgrading video cards is a must for game developers. Users who wish to play games with cutting-edge graphics must have advanced video cards. This is basically a pre-requisite. At least you can benefit from that in many ways. However, forcing us to buy Flash only to develop the user interface isn't really feasible in my opinion.

    Also when you upgrade your video card, you are not going to throw code away, but as you may saw from the replies, many developers are upset because they'll lose their previous work and knowledge. All the time and effort spent will dive in the trash.

    Lastly, our studios can get Flash, but not everyone else can afford it. There should be a freedom of choice.
    Last edited by seenooh; 05-27-2010 at 06:48 AM.
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  10. #10
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    I think favoring UI Scenes over Scaleform is just wrong on sooooo many levels.

    However I am pretty upset that the custom UI Scene code I wrote for the past few months is useless.

    Luckily for me my UI Scene code is actually not Epic's UIScene stuff but my own creation derived from Object.... using only a single instance of a UIScene as a wrapper for two functions, event subscription and mouse fetching. Everything else is done with Canvas.

    I say, if you want to do non-scaleform UI, get started on writing it yourself. It isn't too terribly hard and makes things like list boxes SO MUCH EASIER.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allar View Post
    I think favoring UI Scenes over Scaleform is just wrong on sooooo many levels.
    Nobody here thinks that UIScenes are better than Scaleform. We just wish if UDK could have backward compatibility regarding the user interface. Throwing our code away is really disappointing.
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  12. #12
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    Thumbs down

    It's really disappointing that some people don't realize what it means to have only a Flash-based solution. What it means to actually buy it and learn ActionScript. I have Flash and know ActionScript, but I am still voting to keep the old system in.

    It is outrageous that even though the UDK is FREE, if you want to use the gui solution with an supported application, you have to BUY a 700$ app. If in order to use the udk you have to buy costly apps I am sure that interest in the UDK will dwindle.


    (btw i really enjoy the "if you don't like it then don't use it" attitude that revolves around these forums; yes that is correct, the smaller the user base for a piece of software the better. That is good business.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Makaze View Post
    Keeping the old system in means one of two things. Either Epic has to spend resources maintaining it (unacceptable) or they just mark it as depreciated and keep in in.
    How can you know what's Epic position on this, and how it will interact with their interests? I guess you must be part of the staff...

    Then don't upgrade. Simple as that.
    That's really mature..

    It's so disturbing seeing the immaturity, egoism, people talking on the behalf of the epic staff and all and all fanboy phenomena lurking in some of the posts around here.
    Last edited by spooky_paul; 05-27-2010 at 07:12 AM.

  13. #13
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    seenooh: if you want the "extra features/fixes" you get from the new software, then you get the new software. And that includes having it not have features that are no longer there. My argument as to SM2 support, is exactly the same as your argument for UIScene support -- if you need it, don't upgrade to a version that doesn't support it anymore. Saying that "game developers must upgrade their video cards" is hogwash. I've been successfully programming for the last 8 months with UDK, not having a SM3 card, and I could very well continue to do so, except that the June release will remove support for it. What if I don't want to build a game that requires heavy duty graphics ability?

    You don't need to buy the Flash toolset from adobe to create Flash. Flash is a language, not a software. As is, you need Photoshop and 3ds max to create anything for UDK, anyway, right? (insert GIMP, Blender, etc ... exact same argument as Adobe's Flash toolset)

    My previous work and knowledge on previous versions of the Unreal Engine is completely useless with UIScene. Am I upset about that? No.

    The only thing I'm upset about is that UIScene sucked SO bad it was only useful in a very limited number of scenarios, if you didn't have native code access. It had to be replaced, in my opinion.
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  14. #14
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    spooky: Epic has stated their position. May introduces Scaleform, and sometime in the future, UIScenes will be removed. UDK is "free", but if you want to use a supported Modelling application to create your models, you'll need to spend US$3,495 to get your supported modelling application. UDK is "free", but if you want to use a supported graphics toolset to create your materials, you'll need to spend anywhere from US$400 to US$1800 to get a supported graphics package.

    Or, you can use Blender, GIMP, and Flashdevelop. Or any of dozens of other free to lesser expense softwares that do the exacty same thing. Or go and write your own software.

    No immaturity, egotism, fanboyism, or talking on the behalf of Epic.
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  15. #15
    Iron Guard
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    I didn't mind UIScenes. That said, they do leave some to be desired. Lists were a little annoying like most things when you first start using them.

    I take the approach that I'm in this to learn. If you require some software that will not only allow you to add to your knowledge base but to the functionality of a game then that is great. I was contemplating spending the 700$ for flash, but saw another post that mentioned some lower cost software which if it works with the game, I don't mind putting the extra effort in for a superior result.

    While UIScenes are going away, a new more powerful and better looking system is coming in. If you prefer the look of UIScene, the Canvas system is still in place ( and will continue to be ). It supports layers and you can essentially create "Scenes" anyway.

  16. #16
    Redeemer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blade[UG] View Post
    Saying that "game developers must upgrade their video cards" is hogwash. I've been successfully programming for the last 8 months with UDK, not having a SM3 card, and I could very well continue to do so, except that the June release will remove support for it. What if I don't want to build a game that requires heavy duty graphics ability?
    UDK is targeting high-end machines. You can check the recommended specs of your hardware to have it installed. So I believe this pretty much expected. For any game developer it is always highly recommended to get an advanced video card.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blade[UG] View Post
    You don't need to buy the Flash toolset from adobe to create Flash. Flash is a language, not a software. As is, you need Photoshop and 3ds max to create anything for UDK, anyway, right? (insert GIMP, Blender, etc ... exact same argument as Adobe's Flash toolset)
    The usage scope of PS and 3DS Max is much much bigger than using Flash only to handle the user interface. So it is worth the money in my opinion. Another point is, UDK doesn't force me to use Max, I can use Blender if I want.
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  17. #17
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    Don't really care, but keeping backward compatibility is always bad thing for long term solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blade[UG] View Post
    Saying that "game developers must upgrade their video cards" is hogwash. I've been successfully programming for the last 8 months with UDK, not having a SM3 card, and I could very well continue to do so, except that the June release will remove support for it. What if I don't want to build a game that requires heavy duty graphics ability?
    Nothing, keeping functionality from stone age is not very good thing for keeping clean architecture, that is easy to manage, update and modify.
    Really if you can do it, you really should break every possible connection to old version that you have in your software. That's of course is ideal situation that almost never happen.But really cards that do not support SM3 are gone forever, and it's true stone age in computer.

    Persoanlly Im happy that they resign from outdated technology and hope it will help them implement more advanced and needed features (procedural perlin noise generation please).

    If you dont want make game that need better graphics card that SM2 you can alwyas choose another engine. Really consoles support something between SM3 and SM4, and that's where the engines go.
    Last edited by iniside; 05-27-2010 at 12:24 PM.

  18. #18
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    seenooh,

    UDK doesn't force you to use Flash, either. You can use FlashDevelop if you want. (and there are many others, but FD is the only name I know)

    iniside,

    We're arguing the same thing, sir. I'm not *****ing that SM2 is going away, but seenooh is *****ing that UIScene is.
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  19. #19
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    Well you didn't have to learn how to program your video card, Blade.
    I spend 7 months studying every **** in UIScene to be told I actually could have used those months in learning Flash, if someone would have said something back then.
    It's somewhat stupid to let people work with something if you know it's going to disappear in the near future, and I know, Blade, you're one of those who were struggling with UIScene, reading your past comments.
    I learned to work with it and spent all my time in it to see it all trashed...You didn't program 7-8 months for nothing, even if you don't change video card, you'll still be able to use the new UDKs, Epic won't support it, which doesn't mean it won't work, it's just that they won't check compatibility anymore, since they probably upgrade their test rigs too.
    It's not so much the fact they are changing system, it's more the fact they let us struggle for....well no idea why, since they knew they'd move to scaleform for a long time now.

    It's like a teacher would tell you to learn US history and then tell you the exams will be about France's history...just an hour before the tests.
    I know UDK is free but they expect us to buy the license sooner or later imho and I'm not sure this sort of things should happen.

    I really could have spent this time wisely learning flash instead of finding innovative ways to make UIScene work...(even if it's like poo compared to scaleform)

  20. #20
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    i'm just saying, you don't have to upgrade to a udk version that doesn't support uiscene .. i don't have to upgrade to a udk version that doesn't support shader 2.0. (but I will, because I will have paid work to do that will involve it)

    Let me think of another analogy here .. hmm. Well, i did spend 2 months building a server browser system, only to be completely choked by the inability to use uiscene without native code. Now that there is Scaleform, which I still have absolutely no idea how to use, I can theoretically make that a reality. But now I don't need to, because we have a built in server browser now. So, now, I'll move on to something else.

    Feel free to demand that Epic leave UIScene in, but don't be surprised when it goes away against your requests.
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  21. #21
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    scaleform for sure, i dont need the old one when you have that.

    it can do what old one did, and about 188x times more, while it does require flash to make, it just makes your whole project look that much more pro.

    In the end i think its project specific, however, i cant for the god of me. not find a project it would not be a sweet addition to.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by gegebel View Post
    I spend 7 months studying every **** in UIScene to be told I actually could have used those months in learning Flash, if someone would have said something back then.
    Do you consider that you learned about user interfaces in general over those 7 months? Script-wise, UIScenes and Scaleform aren't actually all that different. The syntax between unrealscript and actionscript is practically the same. You'll have button objects, and rather than onClick delegates, you'll have event listeners for "click"... same thing. Once you get into Scaleform, I'm guessing (hoping) you'll see it's a good thing all around.

    Seven months dedicated to UIScenes... that's intense, I didn't know there were seven months-worth of stuff involved in UIScenes.

    Edit: Tell you what, when I finish moving my UIScenes to Scaleform, I'll post a tutorial
    Last edited by JamieG; 05-27-2010 at 08:43 PM.

  23. #23
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    How can you know what's Epic position on this, and how it will interact with their interests? I guess you must be part of the staff...
    I know that the two options I posted are the only two options if UIScene stays in. Either they support it or they don't. And if they don't things will play out much as I described, not much to debate there.

    As for the unacceptable comment, let's be honest here. The UDK is NOT a money maker for Epic, it's a side project that they hope drives more developers to their real product - UE3. The wants of the UDK crowd are always going to come in a very distant second when compared to the wants of the UE3 crowd. UE3 developers don't generally use UIScene, leaving it in means that Epic is expending resources on something that their primary user base is not ever going to touch, resources that could be spent on enhancing other parts of the engine. The return on investment for maintaining it is not there and so it's not a sensible choice.

    So no I am not on the staff but I can logically analyze how it will affect their business and since it's currently their announced position I'm feeling pretty good about my declaration.

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    I tried to learn flash years ago JamieG and gave up after 3 months.
    Reason is, in order to use flash, you need an idea of the final product and kinda work backwords, what I did with UIScene is starting with "something" and moved on doing even bigger and better systems, even my team would actually just be baffled what could actually be done with UIScene once you get used to.
    I'm sure Scaleform is a great product, I say it myself, it's probably 1000x better compared to UIScene.
    What I learned in UIScene won't be helpful in Scaleform though.
    I used UIScene with Kismet only, so no real script behind it, just very large kismet/UIScene.
    Of course Scaleform is probably easier to use, once you get into it, still see 7 months of work gone.
    What's left is, at least now I know what I'm looking for, still doesn't help me feel better.

    I'd be happy with a simple tutorial with basics showing easy stuff, the rest I can learn I guess.

  25. #25
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    I actually beg to differ on that Makaze, UDK is probably the most lucrative project Epic has going. Now sure its only a subset of engine development, what UDK does do is merge engine development and marketing into the one budget. It might be costly for Epic to maintain UDK but since they already would do something similar internally the cost vs mass marketing campaigns for the engine would probably be minor.

    Now sure there is alot of games that advertise UE3 for Epic and it has already made ALOT of money but going into the future Epic has to reach the people who havent heard of them. Which means the people who dont buy Epic games or games using their engine, general PC users, indy gamers and the like, thats actually the hardest audience to reach. Once you hit a critical mass you'll find yourself surrounded by familiar faces, you need to get to those people at the back of the crowd, what UDK does it basically chuck copies of the engine over all those licensee's up front of the crowd to the people down back. Those people can rush out the door and show all the people walking around outside.

    Not only that but companies, any company not just one with a relationship to Epic can download UDK, try it out, look at the features and render quality. That would have to save Epic time/money for consultations.

    I do agree on the rest though, basically Epic is going to put their bottom line before UDK users everytime. Which we have to support right? I mean if Epic went down the tube then we dont get UDK, I do think some people around here need to look at the needs of the many (bigger picture) instead of being selfish

    Personally I wouldnt mind seeing UIScene staying once its at the phase out point, that way people can use the obsoleted, unsupported software if they wish. The reason for this is, Ive seen many a time where software such as this has got an overhaul from the community and got spat back into circulation obsoleting the very software that obsoleted it happens time and time again. Ofcoarse there is just software thats shocking but UIScenes issues lie mostly in its integration, once thats gone and is optional there will be no problems. Though there could be upgrades to the engine which will make backwards compatibility impossible at some point and the only way would be to emulate the other software which is a waste of processing (time and money).

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blade[UG] View Post
    seenooh,

    UDK doesn't force you to use Flash, either. You can use FlashDevelop if you want. (and there are many others, but FD is the only name I know)
    Is it possible to install the Scaleform stuff on FD? What I saw on UDN was only Flash Pro CS4 and no mentioning of any other software... I'm no expert in Flash at all, so excuse the question...

    Also, I'd like to thank everyone who contributed in the discussion, whether those who agree or disagree with me.
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by gegebel View Post
    I used UIScene with Kismet only, so no real script behind it, just very large kismet/UIScene.
    Ah ok, I can see where that would be troublesome, I was thinking only from an unrealscript standpoint.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by seenooh View Post
    Is it possible to install the Scaleform stuff on FD? What I saw on UDN was only Flash Pro CS4 and no mentioning of any other software... I'm no expert in Flash at all, so excuse the question...

    Also, I'd like to thank everyone who contributed in the discussion, whether those who agree or disagree with me.
    I believe there is some information on using alternate programs, but there shouldn't be an issue with with using any program really.. just functionality changes.

  29. #29
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    I prefer to use material instances in addition to scaleform in UI so I think it's better to keep them both.

  30. #30
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    I actually beg to differ on that Makaze...
    Oh, I actually agree that the UDK is potentially an enormous indirect money maker for Epic. By stimulating interest and familiarity with UE3 it's an incredible marketing tool and as you said the overhead on it is relatively small since most of the upkeep is simply part of UE3 upkeep. The idea is to do for UE3 what piracy and cheap educational copies has done for Photoshop, made it the industry standard.

    But... it's utility to Epic is not (currently) as a direct money maker but simply as a way to generate sales for their actual product UE3. So anything that would negatively affect UE3, in this case increased overhead due to maintaining 2 UI systems or negative public interactions with the UDK due to unsupported legacy code, are not really an option for them.

    I'd also actually agree with keeping it in if we had access to engine source, but we don't so in my mind there's not much chance of the community maintaining it or patching up a better version of UIScene as there are simply things beyond their control likely to change. Though there's nothing really stopping anyone from taking the existing code and dropping it back into future releases, it's basically the same thing as them leaving it in unsupported.

    The important thing for everyone who's against this change to remember is that by taking away UIScene you'll be getting something else down the road as the resources that would be spent on maintaining a (broken ass) UI system will instead be allocated to shiny new features for UE3 that will then be incorporated into the UDK.
    Last edited by Makaze; 05-28-2010 at 02:22 PM.

  31. #31
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    Am i the only one that things that flash is an old and really expensive programming Suite ? I mean, a Jear ago, I should develop with the new Flash suite and it was really extremely difficult with all that coding stuff and so one. Really no one would create a Programm in really easy way and fast time....Its horrible coding hell with no chance to make it simple and fast.

    Damn this programm is really heavy in price and in difficultness....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Makaze View Post
    The important thing for everyone who's against this change to remember is that by taking away UIScene you'll be getting something else down the road as the resources that would be spent on maintaining a (broken ass) UI system will instead be allocated to shiny new features for UE3 that will then be incorporated into the UDK.
    Yea, the problem for me here is that it wasn't just a UI system, but a working crafting system, a shop/mall, a trade system, Dialogs with NPCs, mini games and a day/night cycle.
    I'm sure I could do that with Scaleform too, just that I have to start from scratch and redo ALL I did since november, thanks to bad communication, imo.
    Now I got to learn Scaleform, which is for sure a great piece of software, if only I would know where the f..k to start. The short intro to create a button in the docs didn't help much in ANY of this.
    I can just hope Epic is fair enough to bring us some video tutorials with simple examples, cuz if not I guess we're all pretty much screwed, unless you're a flash genius.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gegebel View Post
    Yea, the problem for me here is that it wasn't just a UI system, but a working crafting system, a shop/mall, a trade system, Dialogs with NPCs, mini games and a day/night cycle.
    I'm sure I could do that with Scaleform too, just that I have to start from scratch and redo ALL I did since november, thanks to bad communication, imo.
    Now I got to learn Scaleform, which is for sure a great piece of software, if only I would know where the f..k to start. The short intro to create a button in the docs didn't help much in ANY of this.
    I can just hope Epic is fair enough to bring us some video tutorials with simple examples, cuz if not I guess we're all pretty much screwed, unless you're a flash genius.
    If you really have that much stuff depending on the UIScene/Canvas stuff built in, you really should not move past whatever final version those are included in. Of note, they are both still in the May build, so you'll be fine for now.

    Also, wrt tutorials and such, Epic has included, as examples, the entirety of their GDC demo, the CLIK examples, and plenty of documentation for getting UI going through Scaleform. At this point, it's perfectly possible, and not that difficult, to get everything up and running in Scaleform NOW.
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  34. #34
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    If you did most of that in code then a great deal of all that work is reusable. If you did all that in Kismet... then you were doing it wrong to begin with, that's not really what it's for.

    If you can't reuse it then you have to ask yourself if future upgrades are worth it based on the amount of work you've committed already. UIScene will continue to work just fine in existing releases and to be honest the monthly releases haven't had any features that can't be done without. Additionally any portions of the monthly upgrades that are done in script as opposed to source can be back ported to older versions. It's just a question of which is worth more to you your existing system or features from future releases.

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    i hope your day/night system isn't done in UIScene, that'd be kinda terrifying

    Seriously, if you've got that much stuff that you've already done, why on earth are you even upgrading your release anyway?
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Polge View Post
    Showdebug on the scaleform hud will be fixed in the next release. You can switch to the old hud, either by setting bUseClassicHUD=true in your gametype, or by using the SwitchHUD console command.
    From another post on the May UDK update.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Makaze View Post
    I'd also actually agree with keeping it in if we had access to engine source, but we don't so in my mind there's not much chance of the community maintaining it or patching up a better version of UIScene as there are simply things beyond their control likely to change. Though there's nothing really stopping anyone from taking the existing code and dropping it back into future releases, it's basically the same thing as them leaving it in unsupported.
    Yeah I just figured having it in there unsupported might help people porting code from UT3 over. I agree though its not worth Epic's time/money to support it and having engine access would make it easier for the community to update things. The problem with the removal of UIScenes is that it might not be possible at some point to drop it back in and in its removal leads the way to be able to have it as an optional module anyway (very minimal extra work).

    Honestly I just voted what I wanted, Epic can do what they want and I'll roll with it. Im not in any position to complain, Ive got a shortlist (as long as my arm) of things I wouldnt mind seeing in uscript and keeping UIscene isnt on that list. Im just happy I get UDK, I do believe people are entitled to their opinion even if it isnt in Epic's best interest. Being able to think outside the boundaries and not being afraid to speak their mind is not something to put them down for, you really do need strong skin.

    Obviously there will be pro's/con's to any choice, you just have to see what works best in a given situation. Having to find work arounds is just part of working with third party software

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blade[UG] View Post
    i hope your day/night system isn't done in UIScene, that'd be kinda terrifying

    Seriously, if you've got that much stuff that you've already done, why on earth are you even upgrading your release anyway?
    Well yea I did all that with Kismet/UIScene.
    I can't code for **** but I was kinda very innovative when it comes to Kismet/UIScene.

    I'm upgrading because I don't want to miss the innovations coming to UDK.
    As said, Scaleform is probably great, I can't wait to be able to create games like those in Fable II for example, but it throws me back to scratch, kinda annoying, even if I know I can't do anything against it.

    Now I search some help with Scaleform in order to have a basic dialog window. Once I get that, I guess I'll be able to do all sort of stuff with it.
    Just need that interaction window

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by gegebel View Post
    Well yea I did all that with Kismet/UIScene.
    I can't code for **** but I was kinda very innovative when it comes to Kismet/UIScene.

    I'm upgrading because I don't want to miss the innovations coming to UDK.
    As said, Scaleform is probably great, I can't wait to be able to create games like those in Fable II for example, but it throws me back to scratch, kinda annoying, even if I know I can't do anything against it.

    Now I search some help with Scaleform in order to have a basic dialog window. Once I get that, I guess I'll be able to do all sort of stuff with it.
    Just need that interaction window
    Sorry to say that, but al you said means only one thing. Bad DESIGN from begning ;p.

  40. #40
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    Gegebel you will get your wish. I am making a Scaleform video tutorial series and the guys at Scaleform & Epic have been very kind in helping out, so I think it will definitely address the concerns of people such as yourself who want an absolute simple starting point, this series is designed to get people creating fully functioning menus and dialogs in under an hour, and from there, build up the knowledge they need for more complex interactions.

    Don't let anyone tell you what is "bad design", Kismet is just fine for prototyping, and if you even want to use it in a commercial game idea and it's simple enough, who's to say that's wrong. In fact, I can tell you for a fact someone who did very well in the MSUC used thousands of Kismet nodes to do something that "should have been done in script", and even if they've since changed it, it was good enough to win them prize money now wasn't it? Everyone works differently and has different needs, so nevermind others, just do it the way you believe provided it works.

    I will post a link to the first video in less than an hour.
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