Microsoft won't let you release your maps for free?

[SureDude]

What do I care about the price people make for making PC games?

What are you talking about? Look man, you are not making much sense. You keep on saying there were all these great exclusives that PC games either don't get or they get a much later date if I remember. Just name them all, everyone you can name, you can probably times that 5 for all the ones the PC gets and the 360 won't. So what?

It is your opinion that the console is better, it is your opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

okay thats it. I never said there were any games that were exclusive. I did however say that the games that were for the console come out much later on the PC. Also compare the amount of console games sold to the amount of the PC games sold. IF you can find results that show that more PC games are sold than console games then good for you. Even better find out the amount of gross profit pc games make to console games and then come here and tell me PC's are not second to consoles when its comes to gaming.

[Rackers]

Then nobody would get to play them and we wasted a lot of Epic's money and opportunity cost creating them. That would be just be stupid of us. The cost will be reasonable and people can still get these maps for free if they're willing to wait. These are great maps and we want people to play them.

So I'm guessing we've gotten our answer to whether they will be free on release? If they're going to be free in a few months I might as well get them early so I can learn them before the other guys do.

[DS Kristoba]

okay so end of the arguement. now about this DLC, its gonna be pretty sweet huh

[DS Kristoba]

So I'm guessing we've gotten our answer to whether they will be free on release? If they're going to be free in a few months I might as well get them early so I can learn them before the other guys do.

optimistic

[rustybayonet]

stick it to em mark. and btw do you mean we wont see the maps for a couple of months? or that the new maps wont be free untill they have been out for a couple of months?

[DS Kristoba]

stick it to em mark. and btw do you mean we wont see the maps for a couple of months? or that the new maps wont be free untill they have been out for a couple of months?

the 2nd one

[Mark Rein]

MS has given us gamers something very special frankly, it's dirt cheap compared to other forms of entertainment. Money spend on my 360, games and dlc, hd movies is some of the best money I've ever spent and I owe that to MS. They are such a juggernaught they can deliver awesome products at a price that so many millions of us can afford. Count your blessing and be patriotic. MS is the opitomy of what's great about America. We only pay like four bucks a month to subscribe to XBL. Take if from a guy who has spent so much money on entertainment in his life that this money is some of the best spent.

I don't have a hddvd player so when I download movies in hd, I feel lucky. The only way that happens is because of what MS offers. They are the only one who can give us what we have. Sony will try and I bet they are successful, too, but won't challenge MS because MS has more up it's sleeve to compete. The golden age of gaming and movies is starting and we have been given a cheap way to participate by MS.

W/O MS there would be no smash hit GoW, Epic wouldn't be big. There would be no huge Bungie smash hit Halo. We've all spent the last five years of our lives playing games that MS has published and on a console MS has sold us. MS looses money on the consoles, always has, always will. They make thier money on DLC and the media they publish like GoW and Halo. OWNED!

Good post! Imagine how much more you'd have to pay for your 360 if Microsoft wasn't subsidizing it and subtract whatever you've spent on DLC for the past year and I'll bet everyone here will come out way ahead

[The Evil Hat]

while i wish i did not have to pay i would rathe rpay than never see them. btu i think that how they are going to do it now is perfectly fair.

[DS Kristoba]

be thankful that the 360 didnt cost 800 or so dollars like the ps3. the only things that MS could work on their customer service. just a tad.

[Mark Rein]

I have to admit that it seems slightly strange (and dare I say Hypocritical) that Epics content will cost money, after all wasn't it Mark Rein himself that said their content would always be free?

I never said any such thing and regardless of that this content is free if you choose for it to be free.

[DS Kristoba]

I'm pretty impressed. Mr. Rein is online, right now answering our questions on Easter mind you, and he has a family (i think). I'm really impressed! That's dedication

[The Evil Hat]

I'm pretty impressed. Mr. Rein is online, right now answering our questions on Easter mind you, and he has a family (i think). I'm really impressed! That's dedication

yeah, thansk you Mr. Rein

[SureDude]

The problem is most people want to pay for their items and than enjoy them. Nobody wants an endless supply of nickel and dime stuff after you bought the item. Of course, there are things you don't need to play, but to me this is not looking pretty at all. I bet you would not charge or even think of charging this same content for PC games, and of course you have the user community that builds this for free also.

It's just my opinion, if MS couldn't make money for selling the console at $399 than that is their problem. As a customer, we just want to know how much it's going to be up front, pay a price and move on. What happens if they increase the cost of XBL to $200 a year? It's just getting to the point where it's kind of sad.

I do think you are a stand up guy for coming out here, none of my comments have been really towards Epic. I know this was most probably outside of your control. I mean what they are doing with H2 MM is just wrong in my book, of course, it's not illegal, makes me lose respect.

Keep up the good work.

Good post! Imagine how much more you'd have to pay for your 360 if Microsoft wasn't subsidizing it and subtract whatever you've spent on DLC for the past year and I'll bet everyone here will come out way ahead

[Robinson0201]

Indeed. Way to go, Mark. Thanks for clearing this up for all of us.

Sad, though - I was somehow beginning to delude myself into believing that M$ had finally become "cool" and had decided to stop their unethical practices. Guess some things never change.

EDIT: Didn't see that. SureDude, I agree with you 100%.

[Gun-Nut]

Indeed. Way to go, Mark. Thanks for clearing this up for all of us.

Sad, though - I was somehow beginning to delude myself into believing that M$ had finally become "cool" and had decided to stop their unethical practices. Guess some things never change.

Would be nice Atleast the maps will become free a few months later if no one goes and pays and just waits it won't cause a problem with getting a match, won't cause problems in ranked anyway since it just the one map.

[annex]

I think the guys at Epic are doing a great job trying to make things cool for the fans of gears... most games don't continue to support player concerns nor do most games fix any glitches what-so-ever, so good job to all at Epic. I wish the dlc would be free as well but this is a case where I will use some points to get the dlc because the game itself is worth the 60 bucks I spent to get it. Most games do not utilize the graphical capabilities of the new systems and most people feel cheated because systems do not live up to the hype but Gears is top notch! Maps ahoy!!!

[Mark Rein]

"We always take care of our customers, we always give them stuff for free, and we're going to keep doing that forever. That's how we do it. This is Epic." -Mike Capps, The President of Epic Games

As Tim Sweeney said on the podcast - we believe in a mix of free content and paid content but . Content is expensive to develop. Yes we're generous and yes we're always giving you some for free but that doesn't mean every bit of it will be free. In this case these maps will be free if you'll willing to wait a few months for them. That's a fair deal.

You didn't ever try and nickel and dime people to death

Yes we believe providing exceptional value is important. Games aren't cheap and if you feel that you're getting your money's worth when you buy our games you'll buy more of our games. We get that because we're gaming consumers just like you guys.

Yes, I've read your explanation about why you can't go ahead and release the content for free because it's "microsoft's store", but let's be completely honest here, I'm sure if you guys actually pushed a bit more, microsoft really wouldn't have a choice.

That is not the case. We can't force them any more than we could walk into Best Buy and make them put something on their store shelves that they're not making any money off. In this case it actually costs Microsoft money to cert, test and deliver this content and that cost isn't inconsequential.

And it's not like the maps have to be put up on marketplace....they could always be released update style where when you pop the game into the box

No you can not do that because then people with the Core system would be locked out of playing the game because they don't have enough storage space for the update.

you guys made a promise and you didn't keep up your end of the bargain and as a result, people who can't afford or don't want to pay for 4 mp maps are going to get screwed out of playing the multiplayer portion of the game

People who don't want to pay for the maps don't have to pay for them. They just have to wait a bit but they're still ultimately free.

we all know most people are going to buy the maps and as a result the few who don't buy it will be able to play in next to none of the servers because either they'll get dropped as soon as the server rotates to the new map or they won't be able to join the server at all if it has the new maps in rotation.

That hasn't been a significant problem with the existing free maps (which are free, OPTIONAL downloads) so it shouldn't be the case in the future. Putting them in a single pack of 4, rather than two packs of two, should help alleviate any concern about that. In the mean time there's nothing we can do about that. All additional content has to be optional otherwise the Core owners couldn't play it. So there are still lots of servers playing the original games and you can always host your own games.

In other words we're being backed into a corner: either we HAVE to buy the map pack or a game that we payed 70$ for and another 60$ to play online with, won't be completely accessible to us for months. Does that sound fair to you? because it sure as hell doesn't sound fair to me. So the gamer get's the short end of the stick again..what's new.

That is simply not the case and frankly I'm a little discouraged by your attitude. Posts like this sure don't make me feel good about the work we've done to make this ultimately free for you and all the money we've spent making this content. Thankfully most people welcome the news that they're getting something for free to extend a game they love. I know I would if I were in your shoes. Do you own a PC? Are you paying $15 a month to play your favorite MMO? How much new free content did they give you for all the months you've been playing? None? Oh they charged you full price for an expansion set in addition to your monthly fee? Yeah, that's what I figured. In the mean time you've been playing our game online for months and the only additional cost is your XBox Live subscription (approximately $4.17 per month) which covers all of the Xbox Live games, and soon Games for Windows Live games you play and we don't see a penny of it.

[Antor]

Yeah, you're right pikeworm sorry for the misunderstanding. I wasn't really trying to flame you, I was just angry because I feel that MS is disrespecting gamers and game developers by black mailing the developers into making the gamers pay for maps that should have been free. Sorry, if I came off as a jerk I tend to kind of get carried away when it comes to these kind of things. Oh well, if Epic can fix alot of the many bugs that plague the game at the moment with this update, I will be willing to pay out an extra $4 bucks or so because atleast I know I can trust that alot of effort went into making the content that comes from Epic. Atleast, Epic was kind enough to strike a deal with MS to give us an option to pay or not, so that's still okay for me. As long as we have options and aren't forced to eventually dl the content, then I say go for it. Some free content now and then never hurt either. That's all for me, hope that clears things up a bit.

[Mark Rein]

What do I care about the price people make for making PC games?

What are you talking about? Look man, you are not making much sense. You keep on saying there were all these great exclusives that PC games either don't get or they get a much later date if I remember. Just name them all, everyone you can name, you can probably times that 5 for all the ones the PC gets and the 360 won't. So what?

It is your opinion that the console is better, it is your opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

Please don't post another post like this again in this thread. It is off-topic and simply starting a console vs. PC flame war that won't be tolerated on this forum.

[TNT]

I think the guys at Epic are doing a great job trying to make things cool for the fans of gears... most games don't continue to support player concerns nor do most games fix any glitches what-so-ever, so good job to all at Epic.

Just like to point out that most games dont have this much trouble with glitches.

And thank you for this epic, i think this is a good compromise and people who are so angry about having to pay, it obviously matters to you, just a wait a few months its not that long

Oh and mark just saying in response to your post a few up that World fo Warcraft does give lots of free content that you dont have to pay for too aside from your monthly subscription so your point wasnt exactly valid, but i see what your saying

[Mark Mortem]

Thanks Mark!

I mean that, I think I'm one of the few who have nothing to ***** about. I will always trust you guys, you're the best.

So I will be able to buy the maps before they come out for free? Yay!

[Vakir]

Mr. Rein. Is this actually Microsoft pushing this on you or is it MS Game Studios? Just out of curiousity... they are seperate entities aren't they?

[Jfab]

Mr. Rein, I could have sworn that you said the new download comming soon would be free, if so is it still free? or is it just maps that we are talking about

[Pikeworm2k]

Never took your post as an attack on me Antor, so dont worry about it.

Believe me, if there were better reasons to be pissed at MS, i would have no problem lobbying against the juggernaut. I was part of a big group that brought a lot of the failing launch 360s to the public forums, all the while MS was stating that there was no problem (and made me pay to fix...). A few months later.....new MS warranty and fix policy, and a nice refund check in the mail

I agree that sometimes the pricing is out of control for microtransactions (/kick EA in the buttox), but i can understand this situation at least economically. We all love free stuff, but there is a lot of misinformation on the web as to why pricing decisions are made, and videogame 'news/stories' are no exception.

Yeah, you're right pikeworm sorry for the misunderstanding. I wasn't really trying to flame you, I was just angry because I feel that MS is disrespecting gamers and game developers by black mailing the developers into making the gamers pay for maps that should have been free. Sorry, if I came off as a jerk I tend to kind of get carried away when it comes to these kind of things. Oh well, if Epic can fix alot of the many bugs that plague the game at the moment with this update, I will be willing to pay out an extra $4 bucks or so because atleast I know I can trust that alot of effort went into making the content that comes from Epic. Atleast, Epic was kind enough to strike a deal with MS to give us an option to pay or not, so that's still okay for me. As long as we have options and aren't forced to eventually dl the content, then I say go for it. Some free content now and then never hurt either. That's all for me, hope that clears things up a bit.

[Black Asgard]

Here's the thing-- Epic isnt owned my Microsoft. They have to let Microsoft have their way with the content, or else it doesnt reach us at all. So by Epic getting upset, theyll only make Microsoft more willing to veto the content all together. Have you ever really won anything by screaming and yelling? No, the other party just gets sick and walks away.

As a business, its bad for them to just give content away that isnt promotional. We got two maps for free already. Im willing to pay to get more stuff...granted, we got a decent game, but we already paid for that. Now we're paying for stuff not included in teh original game because it didnt exist, and thus it is justified that we pay for it.

Picture this: you're a comic book artist, and you sell a book. Then, a few months later, you complete a sequel that until a week prior had been unannounced. How would you like it if your fans demanded it for free, just because they bought the original book? Its just not fair.

Or another scenario: you work one week and get paid. You work another week, but you dont get paid, because your boss was expecting it, and believed then that it was fair, because you were going to work the second week anyways. Wouldnt you be pissed?

Epic worked hard on these maps, and its only justified that Microsoft takes the sane step back and offers them more money, even if Microsoft in part also gets an extra bit of money.

[Mark Mortem]

Mr. Rein, I could have sworn that you said the new download comming soon would be free, if so is it still free? or is it just maps that we are talking about

The title update is free ( the one which includes the glitch fixes/annex) The maps will be free at a later date, but you will have an option to buy them before they are free, but they will be free at some point.

[Robinson0201]

It still hurts me to think that M$ hasn't gotten with it yet. Still, they're the Seventh Gen leaders, and they can push folks around. Sad, sad, sad.

Any timetable set for the release of all of these goodies yet/a price? I'd really like to know how many M$ points I'll need to grab for all of this.

EDIT: Danger Will Robinson! Black Asgard, you don't seem to be very good at crafting analogies. What you mentioned would be akin to folks demanding GoW 2 for free. And the second analogy, about work, doesn't work either, since one week of work is equal to another week's worth of work. Methinks you didn't do too well on the SATs, pal.

And once again, let me say that if the devs want the stuff free, it should be free. The whole "M$ has to pay for certification and release" argument doesn't fly there either. They already have a team that's paid to certify stuff, and the release/shelving thing is part of our $50 a year fee, I'm pretty sure. Failing that, the entire cost would amount to less than $5 for each person that downloads the map pack, I'm sure.

[SureDude]

If you read the whole conversation, it was Double that was saying console is better, I say it's opinion.

Of course, I am done now. You'll be getting my copy of GOW back in the resale section with your attitude. Bye, I promise I will never post again.

Please don't post another post like this again in this thread. It is off-topic and simply starting a console vs. PC flame war that won't be tolerated on this forum.

[oneiztoomany]

Watch the flames guys or I will have to close this.

yeah this thread has gotten way off track since this morning haha, its now like the PC VS console thread somehow...

[shades_of_grey]

I understand where Epic's coming from with this.. it is only fair to start charging for additional content at some point. Besides, they ultimately can't make the decision by themselves whether to charge or not to charge for new content, when M$ "owns the store", as they do.

I think we should withhold judgement on the compromise reached by Epic and M$ until we see exactly how much this "reasonable price" is.

[Mark Mortem]

If you read the whole conversation, it was Double that was saying console is better, I say it's opinion.

Of course, I am done now. You'll be getting my copy of GOW back in the resale section with your attitude. Bye, I promise I will never post again.

Now I won't ever get a chance to play with you! It's not like he was harsh..

[ColdFire]

sorry if this had been asked but i haven't kept track of this thread.....when is this 4-map pack gonna be released?

[doubledown23]

If you read the whole conversation, it was Double that was saying console is better, I say it's opinion.

Of course, I am done now. You'll be getting my copy of GOW back in the resale section with your attitude. Bye, I promise I will never post again.

no where did I ever say console was better than PC. Guess I should have explained it better to him cause he still doesn't understand.

[I Ag3nt 47 I]

Mr. Rein, why does Microsoft insist on charging for those maps. They have enough money, I just don't understand why they can't out this as free. Could you explain?

[sTreeT]

Ugh part of the reason we might not get our new maps soon is cause of you(SureDude) who is complaining over a few dollars. And as for the community of gamers shifting back to the PC I think your completely wrong. Whether you'd like to admit it or not the PC is second to the console. Do some research.
I also don't agree with most of what you say and am way to lazy to have a discussion and start listing my reasons why I think you are wrong. Your complaining is starting to get real old real fast. Give it a rest.
And please stop listing extremes to what Microsoft could charge us next, some of these are just so far-fetched it amazes me someone could go along with it.

And part of the reason we're going to keep getting blitzed by extra charges for playing a game we payed a preimium price for are people like you. I find it so sickening to think that nowadays people have this "oh well what are you going to do, let's just go along with it mentality". Surprisingly this comes from people living in first world countries whose roots were formed by people with the very opposite mentality. Do you feel the need to attack sure dude just because he prefers to stand up to microsoft always having its hand in our pockets? It just doesn't make any sense to me as to why the consumer is going to stand up for a massive corporation such as microsoft. A massive coroporation that makes its money off of unfair business practices none the less.

[shades_of_grey]

no where did I ever say console was better than PC. Guess I should have explained it better to him cause he still doesn't understand.

Oh, really? What's this, then?

Originally Posted by doubledown23
Ugh part of the reason we might not get our new maps soon is cause of you(SureDude) who is complaining over a few dollars. And as for the community of gamers shifting back to the PC I think your completely wrong. Whether you'd like to admit it or not the PC is second to the console. Do some research.

[I Ag3nt 47 I]

I really hate that SureDude, all he does is complain. It's almost like he is angry that they are getting rid of the glitches.

[oneiztoomany]

there are way too many whining brats that post on this site...I have never witnessed so much complaining on a message board in my life.

[oneiztoomany]

Mr. Rein, why does Microsoft insist on charging for those maps. They have enough money, I just don't understand why they can't out this as free. Could you explain?

are you serious? how old are you 12?

[oneiztoomany]

And part of the reason we're going to keep getting blitzed by extra charges for playing a game we payed a preimium price for are people like you. I find it so sickening to think that nowadays people have this "oh well what are you going to do, let's just go along with it mentality". Surprisingly this comes from people living in first world countries whose roots were formed by people with the very opposite mentality. Do you feel the need to attack sure dude just because he prefers to stand up to microsoft always having its hand in our pockets? It just doesn't make any sense to me as to why the consumer is going to stand up for a massive corporation such as microsoft. A massive coroporation that makes its money off of unfair business practices none the less.

that's deep man...are we still talking about a video game or the civil rights movement?