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  1. #1
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    Default MLG Plots Gears Future

    MLG is considering the future of Gears within their tournaments later this year. Found the article rather interesting...found what CliffyB said even more so...

    CliffyB-
    "Its not really the kind of versus that we designed for people to play for six figures. That's why we do Unreal Tournament."

    MLG's response-
    "Tournament players for Halo: Combat Evolved demonstrated that the multiplayer portion Bungie hastily added before the Xbox's launch possessed unintended depth and complexity due to an uncanny balance of glitches and design mistakes."

    I for one feel that Gears more than qualifies for MLG. Its a fantastic team based game with tons of depth and strategy.

    For the full article, just click on the link.

    http://360.advancedmn.com/article.ph...ents=&preview=
    Last edited by Horizon; 01-24-2007 at 04:45 AM.
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  2. #2
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    I think this game in its current form is far from tournament ready. There's a lot of bugs, lag, and weapon balance problems at the moment. And keep in mind the lead designer of the game says said that it's not the direction he wants to go with the game, which means any patches and updates will not cater to the demands of a competitive league.

    The potential for depth and strategy is there, but at this point it is not fully realized, or else most games wouldn't deteriorate into shotgun rolling "special olympics war". The game isn't even operated as an intended stop and pop yet. I'd much rather CliffyB worked to make the game his vision of a stop and pop than cater to the whims of a league (which is the overwhelming minority of a playerbase anyway).

    Let me say that again: The game in its current form is not operated as the stop and pop it was intended to be.

    That screams far from tournament ready to me.

    My guess is the difference between computer and console shooters is that even if the developers don't go in that direction, they can always make mods and add maps on a computer game. CoD 2 had a promod (but that community died pretty fast), CS added some maps and match scripts (CAL match server script, maps like cpl_fire, cpl_mill, etc). You can't do that on a console to my knowledge.

    The only reason CS and Starcraft have lasted as long as the have is because the code and game mechanics are insanely tight and balanced, patched and repatched into perfection.

    If CliffyB's vision happens to coincide with a league, that's cool. The game still has a ways to go before it would be tournament ready, and it can still change a lot between now and 1 year from now. I'd rather he followed his own vision than the demands of a competitive league.

    CS is a good example of this as it is incredibly stale and hosts a legion of close minded people who scream bloody murder if you even *think* about making any changes to their precious game.

    Let the artist paint! If the picture is pretty for a league, everyone wins.

    Edit:
    That article worries me when they say things like:
    "Some fear whether the pacing is suitable for tournament play."

    "Still, others worry the pendulum has swung too far away from the individual skill characteristic of the first entry in the Halo series, MLG's original flagship title, towards purely team-based strategies."

    This is the kind of stuff I'm talking about when I say when a competitve league gets any sway in where the direction goes. The purely team-based gameplay is what is so unique and great about Gears. It's not just a gritty Halo or CS in a future setting. It's a whole different direction. Why destroy what's so unique and great about this game and make it just another run n gun fast paced FPS?

    Like say the up the damage on the lancer (15 bullets to kill from across the map). Well, you have a stop and pop game now as cover becomes a lot more important. The team and tactics thing becomes much more important. It's closer to what it's like to play the single player game. MLG comes out and says "this is the worst thing to happen to the game, now it's too slow paced for competitve gaming!"

    I don't want Gears to be just another online FPS. Just another CoD, MoHAA, HALO, CS, FEAR, Quake III, UT, RTCW, RTCW:ET, Painkiller, DoD, this list goes on and on, just another of the many many many many many many many many many run and gun omgl33t headshot skillz games. It's something unique, something special. I'd like the MP to continue to patch and try to reflect those things that make it unique and special than relfect just another FPS to throw on the pile when its 15 minutes of wannabe CS fame is up.
    Last edited by Shuteye Train; 01-24-2007 at 08:56 AM.

  3. #3
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    I think the biggest problem to sort out is host advantage for this type of gameplay. What's wrong with a game that emphasizes team skill over individual skill. (for pacing) I can't think of a Major league sport that focuses on individuals instead of teams. And the best teams will be those who bridge the gap between stop and pop/ run and gun.

    Host advantage is what will upset any balance of MLG play. It's not fair. It's not cheating, but it can stack the odds in one teams favor. (not that the host can't be taken out, but for competitive play for money no one should have an advatage at the start.)We all know this by now. That's what they would have to sort out first, before it could really come into it's own in tourney's.

    I would say Execution, team damage on would give you the best balance for game excitment, pacing and audience appeal. Stop and pop/ run and gun in the same strategy. but that's just me.

  4. #4
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    At MLG they Lan, the matches, so host advantage should not be a problem.

    I'd, like to see Gears in MLG that would be bad.
    "You don't have to be the best, you just have to be better than everyone else".

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  5. #5
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    Good point....but I guess I was thinking more along the lines of the weeding out process. You should have to prove yourself ready as a team to get to the big dance. Unless they held prelim tourneys in all 50 states I have to assume that the amount of people who are actually ready for the big leagues and those who "think" they are would be seperated through ???? online ladder matches? I don't know....

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shuteye Train View Post
    I think this game in its current form is far from tournament ready. There's a lot of bugs, lag, and weapon balance problems at the moment. And keep in mind the lead designer of the game says said that it's not the direction he wants to go with the game, which means any patches and updates will not cater to the demands of a competitive league.

    The potential for depth and strategy is there, but at this point it is not fully realized, or else most games wouldn't deteriorate into shotgun rolling "special olympics war". The game isn't even operated as an intended stop and pop yet. I'd much rather CliffyB worked to make the game his vision of a stop and pop than cater to the whims of a league (which is the overwhelming minority of a playerbase anyway).

    Let me say that again: The game in its current form is not operated as the stop and pop it was intended to be.

    That screams far from tournament ready to me.

    My guess is the difference between computer and console shooters is that even if the developers don't go in that direction, they can always make mods and add maps on a computer game. CoD 2 had a promod (but that community died pretty fast), CS added some maps and match scripts (CAL match server script, maps like cpl_fire, cpl_mill, etc). You can't do that on a console to my knowledge.

    The only reason CS and Starcraft have lasted as long as the have is because the code and game mechanics are insanely tight and balanced, patched and repatched into perfection.

    If CliffyB's vision happens to coincide with a league, that's cool. The game still has a ways to go before it would be tournament ready, and it can still change a lot between now and 1 year from now. I'd rather he followed his own vision than the demands of a competitive league.

    CS is a good example of this as it is incredibly stale and hosts a legion of close minded people who scream bloody murder if you even *think* about making any changes to their precious game.

    Let the artist paint! If the picture is pretty for a league, everyone wins.

    Edit:
    That article worries me when they say things like:
    "Some fear whether the pacing is suitable for tournament play."

    "Still, others worry the pendulum has swung too far away from the individual skill characteristic of the first entry in the Halo series, MLG's original flagship title, towards purely team-based strategies."

    This is the kind of stuff I'm talking about when I say when a competitve league gets any sway in where the direction goes. The purely team-based gameplay is what is so unique and great about Gears. It's not just a gritty Halo or CS in a future setting. It's a whole different direction. Why destroy what's so unique and great about this game and make it just another run n gun fast paced FPS?

    Like say the up the damage on the lancer (15 bullets to kill from across the map). Well, you have a stop and pop game now as cover becomes a lot more important. The team and tactics thing becomes much more important. It's closer to what it's like to play the single player game. MLG comes out and says "this is the worst thing to happen to the game, now it's too slow paced for competitve gaming!"

    I don't want Gears to be just another online FPS. Just another CoD, MoHAA, HALO, CS, FEAR, Quake III, UT, RTCW, RTCW:ET, Painkiller, DoD, this list goes on and on, just another of the many many many many many many many many many run and gun omgl33t headshot skillz games. It's something unique, something special. I'd like the MP to continue to patch and try to reflect those things that make it unique and special than relfect just another FPS to throw on the pile when its 15 minutes of wannabe CS fame is up.
    I think its more than ready. While you say it has bugs and lag issues, be aware that LAG isn't an issue in system link gameplay, which would be the case if it was at MLG. Second, if you've ever played a system link game you'll know that it is stop and pop still. The effectiveness of weapons like the lancer and hammerbust are greatly improved. Imagine everyone having the host advantage?

    It's amazingly a different experience and does play the way EPIC intended...especially when playing warzone.

    And I do agree that I don't want to see Gears converted into another FPS clone just to fit into the MLG frame work. There's enough of those games out already.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuma Kensai View Post
    I think the biggest problem to sort out is host advantage for this type of gameplay. What's wrong with a game that emphasizes team skill over individual skill. (for pacing) I can't think of a Major league sport that focuses on individuals instead of teams. And the best teams will be those who bridge the gap between stop and pop/ run and gun.

    Host advantage is what will upset any balance of MLG play. It's not fair. It's not cheating, but it can stack the odds in one teams favor. (not that the host can't be taken out, but for competitive play for money no one should have an advatage at the start.)We all know this by now. That's what they would have to sort out first, before it could really come into it's own in tourney's.

    I would say Execution, team damage on would give you the best balance for game excitment, pacing and audience appeal. Stop and pop/ run and gun in the same strategy. but that's just me.
    I'm not really concerened with the audience appeal when considering Gears for MLG. Trust me when I say, "The people will come to watch it regardless, because it's fricken Gears dude!" This game rocks, seeing people play it is far more entertaining than watching a bunch a guys run around Halo2 where all you have to do is be the first to shoot.

    Skill in Halo2 is overrated to the most extreme level. It doesn't take that much talent...which maybe why those guys at MLG don't want to see it apart of 'there' events.
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  8. #8

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    GoW is not ready for tournaments... at least, not online ones anyway.
    I know MLG already has had 2 GoW online tournaments over xbox live, and the third tournaments registration just closed. (I was going to join my team up, but MLG is slow as all hell and can't transfer credits for thier life) The way MLG is doing these tournaments isn't even fair either. Away team gets to chose who hosts the game... host power, matched with the somewhat intense lag that everyone periodicly recieves is not fair at all.

    Though if MLG is going to do some LAN tournaments such as the Boost Mobile Halo series, except one for Gears, GoW would probably be the best tournament game to date if it's LAN - that would get rid of host powers and lag and even out every major flaw in the game.

    So online no, LAN yes.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerald Is I View Post
    GoW is not ready for tournaments... at least, not online ones anyway.
    I know MLG already has had 2 GoW online tournaments over xbox live, and the third tournaments registration just closed. (I was going to join my team up, but MLG is slow as all hell and can't transfer credits for thier life) The way MLG is doing these tournaments isn't even fair either. Away team gets to chose who hosts the game... host power, matched with the somewhat intense lag that everyone periodicly recieves is not fair at all.

    Though if MLG is going to do some LAN tournaments such as the Boost Mobile Halo series, except one for Gears, GoW would probably be the best tournament game to date if it's LAN - that would get rid of host powers and lag and even out every major flaw in the game.

    So online no, LAN yes.
    Oh, I wasn't arguing to the fact Gears could be played in the online tournaments...clearly in that regard its nowhere near ready. But when considering it for MLG the lag and some of the bugs aren't an issue.
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  10. #10
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    if gears was played in local MLG tournaments it wouldnt be that bad. In my state(Minnesota)We have a tourney every other week at our local gamecrazy and people come from alll over to compete and its a lot of fun. And when playin LAN there is virtually no lag.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    I think its more than ready. While you say it has bugs and lag issues, be aware that LAG isn't an issue in system link gameplay, which would be the case if it was at MLG. Second, if you've ever played a system link game you'll know that it is stop and pop still. The effectiveness of weapons like the lancer and hammerbust are greatly improved. Imagine everyone having the host advantage?

    It's amazingly a different experience and does play the way EPIC intended...especially when playing warzone.

    And I do agree that I don't want to see Gears converted into another FPS clone just to fit into the MLG frame work. There's enough of those games out already.
    Honestly, I agree with your sentiment when put in that light. I would love to see the kinks worked out of this game (it does have a few, like the current damage model given its intended design). It does have its bugs, however, such as certain map exploits, the weapons could all use some tweaking, the A button could be tightened so you don't find yourself praying for a dive and humping a wall instead, chainsaw could use a fiddle or 2, the lancer (hell, all the weapons) need a massive damage upgrade.

    It's not so much that the game is broken, but the slack in MP needs to be tigthened and balanced. I mean at $10,000 would you want to lose to a bug or imprefection in the system?

    But I would love to see the intended design appreciated by leagues instead of trying to break that design (like the tried with CoD2, which died right away). It's a slower, tactical game where the individual should be subordinate to the team, and individual players shouldn't shine as much as how well they work together.

    I'll watch, but I'm done with competitve. Playing for money sucks the fun out of it.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    I'm not really concerened with the audience appeal when considering Gears for MLG. Trust me when I say, "The people will come to watch it regardless, because it's fricken Gears dude!" This game rocks, seeing people play it is far more entertaining than watching a bunch a guys run around Halo2 where all you have to do is be the first to shoot.

    Skill in Halo2 is overrated to the most extreme level. It doesn't take that much talent...which maybe why those guys at MLG don't want to see it apart of 'there' events.
    It's funny when you find someone spewing garbage about FPS's, namely Halo, and then look them up and see that they are complete and utter trash at the game.

    Anyways Gears has the same problems any new game to XBL has had. I definitely see MLG in it's future.

  13. #13
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    MLG has become so full of bull**** it is killing me. Halo2 takes skill? Halo2 has more autoaim and magnetism than any other shooter... meaning less individual skill than any other shooter.

    Halo2 has imbalanced weapons. GoW has a near perfect balance that I would not want to see changed.

    So the host has a small advantage that is basically gone with sys link games, yet MLG says that the non-host players are going to be allowed to cover surf? gimme a break...

    And last was the Pro HaloCE player saying that glitches made HaloCE balanced... hmmm, I guess it had nothing to do with the balanced guns, eh?

    Go Cliffy B for sticking to them. ****ing egotistical, stuck up, wanna-be millionaire, pro-gamer ass kissers. that article was so full of back assward BS that I really just couldnt read it all...

    I'm glad that GoW will be touney worthy, becasue it so obviously is designed for competitive teamwork play. Its just bad that MLG has to put in their creative BS. Come on, cover surfing? Why not jsut allow super jumps in Halo2?
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  14. #14
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    i would love GoW to be at tourney level status. i think it is soo ready. MLG people namely H2 players dont want it because it takes more skill than their crappy game. Yes I used to play it constantly but now i figured out why soo many people are good. AUTOAIM!!! When GoW reaches MLG status i will be more than proud to actually get into this game more than i am now. it has soo much potential to be one of the greatest MLG games out there right now. H3 will be trash. i wont play nor will it buy. GoW FOREVER
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