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  1. #1
    Skaarj
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    Default Melee - Complexity

    Hello,

    This is my first post regarding melee and my findings. It seems to be very well balanced, although some stuff doesn't seem like they thought through it, it's there, and actually works. Anyhow now let's get down to the first thing....

    1) Which Character Type you choose

    Be carefull on this one, the hard part is, each differ in 3 classes:

    Slow (movement speed) & strong
    Medium (movement speed) & Medium Strength
    Fast (Movement Speed) & Weak Strength

    But, this is not where it ends, there are varying Notions of the different classes, Sobek for instance hits very hard, and is a tick slower then the Average Medium Character.

    Lauren is Slower then Saphire, but actually is more powerfull strength wise when hitting.

    2)Counters , Animations , Dead Frames & Windows

    This is the 2nd part of the Character quick info, as you might have played a 2D Fighting Game, or ever really gotten into it (i love them ) this is all about Animations.

    A) Counters

    Each Character can not limitless Counter, they do have their own Animation for it, and time until they can counter. The Tricky part here lies that some slow characters can counter your first shot from a rocket, but not the 2nd one. Some can (fast characters) but as well not infinitely. It does drain Weapon Energy, and this leads to a very good experience.

    B) Animations / Attacks

    An important thing to notice, is the Animation of your enemy, this has a very long learning curve for melee, not because it all looks a bit different, but the timing changes drastically. If you want to counter your enemy, make sure you know the timing, look when they hit you, see how long they need. They are all different, and it takes very long to get to know them perfectly. Learn not only opponent's Movement, learn your own, you will need it for.....

    C) Dead Frames / Windows

    Once an Animation is done, there will be a small delay where there is a "Window" on the Attacker, this is called "Dead Frame" since the opponent has a free shot to attack. This indeed makes the gamplay even better, since you will have to make your opponent try to attack, and evade it, after that, you have a free shot.

    Be carefull, your character has those too.

    3) Blocking / Shielding

    Blocking is one of the things you will require highly to get used to. A good fighter is dead when he runs showing his head to snipers. As well, you can't counter at first, so why take a full hit? Shield, and take 30% of the Damage (30% isn't accurate , but its close )

    The Good Thing about Blocking is, that you aren't a complete wuss at this Stage, beyond blocking a Sniper's headshots, you have a Chance in Melee. If you are playing a Quick Character, you won't go Face to Face (until you want to die) with a Medium / Slow Opponent. (Yes i know it works out sometimes, and even many times depending on your oponent, but it wont get you far against experienced players.)

    When running up to your enemy, upons touching them, you push them away, they do a small jump backwards, which is a dead frame for them, unfortunately, you cannot use this to your advantage and start to attack, but it gives you a second to think out if you will melee fight, switch to a weapon, or even give you a small gap if you want to run away to collect health.

    Blocking / Shielding is your friend, its more reliable then countering at first, and someone who can block well can frustrate Aggressive Melee fighters, since their "style" will not work easerly on you.

    Remember, Shielding while the enemy isnt doing anything is bad, you loose Weapon Power, and this will decrease your endurability for a longer melee fight , and might cause you a loss

    4) Advanced Techniques

    If you fly towards someone using the Right Trigger, and you hit them, dont just blindly get back to the floor, and try to slaughter them, you arent a butcher, you are a Samurai. When you hit your opponent, you can jump OFF him again (hold back and press Jump) and if you got adrenaline, take a X+B approach on the enemy, this will hurt badly, and you damaged them highly.

    You can as well annoy your enemy by repeadetly jumping off them and pressing Right Trigger several times to get back at them, but this is more of a humiliation then a technique. It shows superiority to them

    If you play a Fast Character, don't hesitate to play like an Assasin. What's that? Simple, you have a 360° Effective light Attack, so since you have a higher mobility then others, you will have problems facing them face to face, but just run past them hitting them once, make them follow you, and never be frightenent to actually switch to a weapon.

    Conclusion:
    -----------
    This Game isn't just a Hack & Slash featured Ego Shooter put into a 3rd Person. Its a fully fledged fighting Game with the addition of Unreal'S Weaponry.

    All the Old Skool things from 2D Fighting Games count, Dead Frames, Playing with the oponents mind, and of all, your timing. You have only 2 Buttons to fight, but both are effective in their own way, and you have many possibilities.

    So to sum it up, You need to be carefull when you hit, hitting in the blue will result in your death, being over defensive wont make you last long. And you have to know when your oponent will will damage you with his attacks, not only to counter them, but as well to evade them and hit them back. It sounds easier as it is

  2. #2
    Skaarj
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    Default RE: Melee - Complexity

    Thats a great post, and has really cleared a lot of things up for me and made me appreciate the melee element more - cheers.

  3. #3
    Skaarj
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    Default RE: Melee - Complexity

    Cool, i'm glad it helped atleast someone

    And i noticed a few mistakes now too where i can't edit it

    When i wrote X+B, i meant (subconciously) the Adrenaline Pounce, aka jump then B.


    I will maybe write later on a more Advanced Guide for melee, these are only basics. There's a lot more to it then this

  4. #4

    Default RE: Melee - Complexity

    yes thank oyu for the info on melee it helped alot

  5. #5
    Skaarj
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    Default RE: Melee - Complexity

    Can someone help me with melee vs melee combat? Is there certain tactics to it like parrying attacks with left trigger or shielding? I know your not supposed to take on heavy characters when you arent one yourself, but if forced to, are there any special tactics that work. Also, does parrying with the left trigger and shielding work all the time, even against heavier melee attacks? Which type of melee attack does the most damage?

    thanks

  6. #6
    MSgt. Shooter Person
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    Default RE: Melee - Complexity

    Good stuff CraiZE. Comparing the animations is tough to do, I’d be interested in what you come up with.
    Anyway, here’s a list of most of the melee damage to expand the thread a bit. The numbers aren’t spot on, but they’ll give you a good perspective on how each attack compares with the others. This was all tested on attacking a medium class where 100% is a full health bar, a light class is around 65%, and a heavy class is around 150%.

    (These are taken from a normal health meter not the super health)

    Anubis
    Light Attack 1 (L1) 22-23%
    Light Attack 2 (L2) 28-29%
    Light Attack 3 (L3) 36-37%
    Heavy Attack (H) 57-58%
    Dive Attack (D) 26-27%%
    Pounce Attack (P) 33%

    Raiden
    All damage is identical to Anubis except:
    Pounce Attack (P) 28-29%

    Sobek
    All damage is identical to Anubis.

    Malcom
    All damage is identical to Anubis.

    Brock
    All damage is identical to Anubis.

    Torgr
    All damage is identical to Anubis.

    Selket
    Light Attack 1 (L1) 17-19%
    Light Attack 2 (L2) Same as Anubis
    Light Attack 3 (L3) Same as Anubis
    Heavy Attack (H) Same as Anubis
    Dive Attack (D) Same as Anubis
    Pounce Attack (P) Same as Anubis

    Sapphire
    All damage is identical to Selket.

    Lauren
    All damage is identical to Selket.

    Devastation
    All damage is identical to Selket except:
    Dive Attack (D) 24-25%

    Gorge
    Light Attack (L1) 28-29%
    Light Attack (L2) 40-41%
    Light Attack (L3) 52-53%
    Heavy Attack (H) 70%
    Dive Attack (D) 33-34%
    Pounce Attack (P) 33%

    Arclite
    All damage is identical to Gorge.

    Szalor
    All damage is identical to Gorge.

    Raptor
    All damage is identical to Gorge.

    Here’s some observations…

    Light classes are a lot stronger than you might think, with the exception of their L1, they do the same damage as medium characters.

    A medium class can kill a light class with 3 L1’s. Since L1’s recover much faster than doing the whole combo it is usually better to just stick to L1s verses light characters.

    The Dive attack of a heavy class is equal in damage or in some cases stronger than a pounce attack.

    There’s some other interesting things, but I’ll get to them later.

  7. #7
    Skaarj
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    Default RE: Melee - Complexity

    Thanks, that helped me alot.

  8. #8
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    Default More Method to the Madness…

    After some further testing (Primarily on L1, L2, and & L3) I’ve come up with some melee tables. These will give you a better sense of which characters have melee priority in particular situations.

    Firstly which characters have the fastest attacks?
    ===
    Quickest Attackers: Fastest to Slowest.
    Light Class:
    Selket/Sapphire
    Devastation
    Lauren

    Medium Class:
    Anubis/Raiden
    Sobek
    Brock
    Malcom

    Heavy Class:
    Gorge/Arclite
    Szalor/Torgr
    Raptor

    There’s been a lot of debate on who “out ranges” who. So here’s come charts on melee range to clear up some of the grey area. Interpret “Right” and “Left” from your own perspective. (So Right is YOUR right, Left is YOUR left, etc.)

    Frontal Range: Greatest to Least.
    ===
    Anubis/Raiden
    Malcom
    Gorge/Arclite
    Selket/Sapphire
    Lauren
    Raptor
    Sobek
    Brock
    Devastation
    Szalor/Torgr

    Right Side: Greatest to Least:
    ===
    Malcom
    Sobek
    Raptor
    Szalor/Torgr
    Selket/Sapphire
    Anubis/Raiden
    Lauren
    Brock
    Devastation
    Gorge/Arclite

    Left Side: Greatest to Least.
    ===
    Malcom
    Anubis/Raiden
    Raptor
    Selket/Sapphire
    Szalor/Torgr
    Brock
    Gorge/Arclite
    Sobek
    Devastation
    Lauren

    Back Side: Greatest to Least.
    ===
    Szalor/Torgr
    Anubis/Raiden
    Sobek
    Raptor
    Lauren
    Selket/Sapphire
    Gorge/Arclite
    Malcom
    Brock
    Devastation

    Here’s a breakdown of their melee range into tier’s if your into that sort of thing…
    1 Anubis/Raiden
    2 Malcom
    3 Raptor
    4 Selket/Saphire
    5 Sobek & Szalor/Torgr
    6 Gorge/Arclite & Lauren
    7 Brock
    8 Devastation

    “All fine and dandy, but how do I apply this?” Glad you asked. Here's an example.

    Anubis seems to be a pretty universal standard that every character is compared to so lets break him down with some Anti-Anubis strategy for each character. Pounces, dives, blocking, parrying, and adrenaline are universal and covered elsewhere I’ll focus just on the attacks themselves…

    Melee Only Anti-Anubis when you are:

    Selket/Sapphire:
    ===
    Anubis outranges you from the front and to his left, so make efforts to approach him from the left to keep him on your right side. Your L1 recovers extremely fast, and with your speed advantage you can string up to 4 L1’s together long before Anubis can finish his 3-hit combo.

    Lauren:
    ===
    Lauren has some subtle gaps to be concerned with, but she fairs better than most in this matchup. Her L1 has holes to her left, so you’ll need to baby that a little. Also her L2 is very linear so you’ll have to use lock-on more liberally than most characters. One thing in her favor is her excellent L3 which is quite strong and has range superior to Anubis. Also Lauren’s heavy attack has solid tracking and one of the quickest recoveries. Dip in for pokes and buffered L3's, and avoid fighting on your left whenever possible.

    Devastation:
    ===
    Devastation will have trouble, Anubis completely dominates the space she fight in. Furthermore her L3 is earthshakingly slow and has holes to her left.. What Devastation has going for her is her L1’s speed and the excellent recovery off of her L2. Thanks to her speed, when she gets inside she can 2-hit combo all day without much fear. L1 poking is moderately effective as well. Avoid her L3 in close battles as it’ll only slow you down and make you vulnerable.

    Sobek:
    ===
    Anubis’s L1 has more frontal range and recovers a bit faster than yours, so he’ll generally win a L1 poking match. As Sobek you want to position yourself to take advantage of your superior right and back sides. Dip in and out in a clockwise pattern. Also note that Sobek’s L3 recovers extremely fast, take advantage of this. Also keep your heavy attack in mind since it’s one of the only “true” 180 degree arcs heavies.

    Malcom:
    ===
    Malcom's L1 has superior range to Anubis, particularly to Malcom’s right. Avoid doing complete circles around Anubis since Malcom is pretty weak in the back (pun aside). Instead use a dipping figure-8 pattern. Be mindful of the vast range difference in your combo: while L1’s range is huge, L2 is pitiful in comparison. Also note Malcom’s 3-hit combo is significantly slower than Anubis (nearly as slow as a heavy character in fact) so be cautious about spamming it and use L1’s to keep up in the freeze race, also fish for opportunities to sneak in Malcom's quick heavy attack.

    Brock:
    ===
    Brock will have a lot of trouble since Anubis is faster and completely outranges him. Dip to Anubis’s sides and avoid doing Brock’s full 3hit-combo in close battles. Brock needs a lot of L1 poking to compete because of his lengthy combo animations. But be aware that the timing of his L1 poking takes some adjusting due to his slower recovery animations.

    Szalor/Torgr:
    ===
    Anubis has a significant front range advantage. So keep him to your superior right and back side. Many people don’t know that Szalor has more range to his back than he does in front of him, especially his huge L3. Strafe in a clockwise pattern with your combos, but be mindful that Szalor isn’t fast by any stretch of the imagination so use L1 poking when appropriate to reduce the speed gap and compete for freezes.

    Gorge/Arclite:
    ===
    Gorge should avoid fighting anyone to his right side like the plague. His L1 and L3 have no coverage on this side unless you're close enough to kiss them, and Anubis wouldn’t be too pleased with that. His L3 animation is slow as molasses so be sure it’ll kill Anubis before commiting to it or you’ll be ripe for a freeze. Gorge has an excellent L2, which is a 360 degree arc and should be used liberally while doing the melee dance with Anubis. Also remember your L1’s recover nearly as fast as Anubis, so you can pepper him with pokes to compensate the speed difference or to squeeze in a CDR setup for ring dominance.

    Raptor:
    ===
    As raptor you should fight Anubis primarily to your right side. Since raptor has the slowest attacks in the game, you need to lead your hits much more than other characters. Also L1 poking isn’t as effective for you as the rest of the cast since your attack recovery is poor, but unfortunately poking is necessary at times. On the positive note Raptor’s heavy attack isn’t heavily telegraphed and has the furthest range in the game, so always be looking for ways to sneak it in. Be cautious of spamming your 3-hit combo since your L3 is pretty linear. Stick to your 2-hit combo as your bread and butter attack.

  9. #9
    Skaarj
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    Default RE: Melee - Complexity

    This may be a dumb question but what are L2's and L3's and how do you perform them?

  10. #10
    MSgt. Shooter Person
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    Default RE: Melee - Complexity

    " Light Attack 1 (L1)
    Light Attack 2 (L2)
    Light Attack 3 (L3)
    Heavy Attack (H)
    Dive Attack (D)
    Pounce Attack (P) "

  11. #11
    Skaarj
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    Default RE: Melee - Complexity

    I already knew that Shadowz... But...Light Attack 1 = the attack you perform with the R trigger, right?

    what's the Light Attack 2 or 3 then?

    a second or third hit with the R trigger?

  12. #12
    Skaarj
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    Default RE: Melee - Complexity

    Yes, exactly. If you hold down the R trigger, after the first attack, they will perform a different second attack, then yet another different third attack.

  13. #13
    Skaarj
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    Default RE: Melee - Complexity

    ok, thanks man... So I DID understand it

  14. #14
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    Default RE: Melee - Complexity

    oh,didnt know you ment that. I just assumed you did and were wondering what l1 and l2 as in it ment light attack 1.

  15. #15
    Skaarj
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    Default RE: Melee - Complexity

    This info is great. I really needed help with my melee. I can't wait to try this stuff out.

  16. #16
    MSgt. Shooter Person
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    Default RE: Melee - Complexity

    Any advice for melee parrying tactics?

  17. #17
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    Default RE: Melee - Complexity

    Wow man, you really went in depth. I thank you. :P

  18. #18
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    Default RE: Melee - Complexity

    Digininja: Shielding while trying to make them wiff their attack is usually the best option. But that aside, the animations and parry timing vary a lot so it’s pretty hard to advise you on paper. Getting competent with parries in melee really only comes with some hefty practice time, and parries risk vs. reward are not that great since it generally bounces your opponent back outside of your attack range.

    But there are some situations where it’s handy as a defensive option like Gorge sandwiches you in a corner and proceeds to smear you into goo with his L2. I’ll look into it.

  19. #19
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    Default RE: Melee - Complexity

    Cool, I generally use Brock online, and I have noticed that his melee animations are not very good for head to head stuff (it seems like his 2nd hit misses alot), so I have been relying on using the pistols to freeze those players who like to get up close and personal(coup de grace baby!). I want to refine my parrying so I can bump them back a bit to give me time to react.(is it the same timing as the reflect?)

  20. #20
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    Default RE: Melee - Complexity

    Here’s the timing for Parrying each Characters’ various Melee Attacks. At first this might seem a little confusing, my advice would be to pick out a problem character you have trouble against (like for instance maybe Gorge’s melee keeps kicking you butt) and break off the parry timing in small pieces you can chew.

    You vs. Anubis/Raiden
    L1: The actual “hit” comes late in the animation, listen for the sound cues and time the parry near the apex of his little hop.
    L2: The “hit” comes early in the animation, watch for him to switch hands on the staff, as the bottom blade of the staff flashes to his right side hit parry.
    L3: The “hit” is fast and comes early in the animation, the timing is very similar to L2, as he flinches to begin L3 do your parry. Be aware that his staff can hit you throughout his entire airborne animation.
    H: This one is hard, watch for him to lean his head down that’s your cue to parry before he strikes you.

    You vs. Malcom
    L1: This one is easy, just follow his staff as it arcs and parry as the staff centers on you.
    L2: This one can be tricky because he feints before the attack, watch for the animation where his staff is overhead pointed at you (like a spear) then parry.
    L3: The “hit” comes VERY early, as soon as you see his staff start the blur effect hit parry.
    H: This one is similar to L2, again watch for the staff pointing overhead (like a spear) then parry.

    You vs. Sobek
    L1: This one is easy, watch his sword, the instant it drops to a 90 degree horizontal angle hit parry.
    L2: This one is a pain because the “hit” comes so early, watch his sword, parry as soon as he starts to move it away from his normal position.
    L3: This one isn’t too bad, watch as he turns his back to you, parry as soon you start seeing his face again during the rotation.
    H: Like L1 watch his sword, as soon as it drops to a 90 degree horizontal angle hit parry.

    You vs. Brock
    L1: This one is pain, the “hit” comes early, watch him at the apex of his jump his staff will appear vertical, parry the instant you see that “vertical staff.”
    L2: This “hit” comes early as well, again watch for his staff to become a thin vertical line, parry the instant you see that “vertical staff.”
    L3: This one is much easier, Watch his legs disappear as he begins his flip, parry as he begins to extend his legs upwards upside down.
    H: This one is a beast to get consistently. Watch his hands, he’ll do an animation like a mage executing a fireball, as his hands are about to fall the staff will be doing its last horizontal animations before it becomes vertical. As the staff is ABOUT to go vertical hit parry. (Hat’s off to you if you can pull this one off consistently in real play)

    You vs. Selket/Sapphire
    L1: This one is fast, AS SOON as her sword moves away from her normal position hit parry.
    L2: Watch her left handed sword, as it dips sideways from its normal vertical position parry.
    L3: This one is as fast as L1, watch her right handed sword, as it crosses under her left sword hit parry.
    H: This one is by FAR the easiest heavy attack to parry since you have all the time in the world. Just watch her right handed sword, as it comes down on you hit parry.

    You vs. Devastation
    L1: This one is fast, AS SOON as you see her blades begin their blur effect hit parry.
    L2: Another fast one, AS SOON as you see her left hand flinch hit parry.
    L3: Yet another fast one, watch her head, as it begins to dip down hit parry.
    H: This one is a little harder than Selket’s because it “hits” more suddenly, as soon as the right handed blade moves down from the overhead position parry.

    You vs. Lauren
    L1: This one is very hard. Watch for her left hand to extend, as it is extending immediately parry.
    L2: This one is a little easier. The sound effect is always the same so listen for the high pitched cue during the twirl as she drops her hands hit parry.
    L3: This one is pretty easy. Watch for her head to lean to a 90 degree horizontal angle (kinda like she’s laying on an invisible bed) then hit parry.
    H: The “hit” for this one is very sudden, watch for her rotation, when her back is perfectly squared up in line with your front hit parry.

    You vs. Szalor/Torgr
    L1: This one is cake, watch his right claw as the arc comes around to hit you, parry.
    L2: This one can be a little tricky, watch his right claw, parry just before it lunges upward into an uppercut.
    L3: Watch him lean to his left in a windup, when the windup stops hit your parry.
    H: This is similar to his L2, wait until just before the upper cut is going to hit you then parry.

    You vs. Gorge/Arclite
    L1: Similar to Szalor’s L2, but a little harder, watch his left hand, when it pulls ALL the way back hit parry.
    L2: This one is similar to Malcom’s L1, but harder, watch his right hand as the arc comes around to slap you hit your parry. If you’re having trouble look for his arm to be extended out horizontally, that’s your cue.
    L3: Similar to Anubis’s L3, this one comes out fast, AS SOON as you see him flinch do your parry. Be aware that he can still hit your throughout the entire break dancing animation.
    H: This one looks easy at first, but is actually pretty tricky because the hit comes much later than you might anticipate. Wait until his right fist comes crashing down on top of you, at about the point his fist is touching your shoulder do your parry.

    You vs. Raptor
    L1: This one can be tricky, watch her right hand, just before it extends out to touch you hit parry.
    L2: This one’s pretty easy, as soon as you see one of her legs shoot up vertically hit parry.
    L3: This one is a pain, listen for the sound cue’s since it’s always the same, watch her hands as they twirl, as soon as you see her left hand unravel to smack you hit parry.
    H: This one isn’t bad up close, but from far out it becomes a monster, watch her rotation as she exposes her back, as soon as she flinches to finish the rotation forward to impale you, hit your parry.

    Oh ya...
    Parrying Pounce and Dives:
    The best advice I can give is imagine a "barrier" or "bubble" of about 1 character body length around you in all directions. As your opponent flies into that "barrier" of 1 body length, hit your parry.

  21. #21
    MSgt. Shooter Person
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    Default RE: Melee - Complexity

    Wow, great stuff man, thanks.

  22. #22
    Skaarj
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    Default RE: Melee - Complexity

    Vintoks - Just thought I'd point out. You keep listing Torgr as a Heavy. He is Medium.


  23. #23
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    Default RE: Melee - Complexity

    Arkitekt: I know he's a Medium. I clump him together with Szalor because their melee animations are identical... Same with Gorge and Arclite, Selket and Sapphire, Anubis and Raiden, each pair has identical attack animations.

  24. #24
    Skaarj
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    Default RE: Melee - Complexity

    Ok, cool, just wanted to help, in case...


    PS... Really good job, by the way!

  25. #25
    Skaarj
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    Default RE: Melee - Complexity

    Thanks a lot. I am just getting the timing down for reflecting projectiles. I can't wait to get started on the parries. This is a great topic.

  26. #26
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    Default RE: Melee - Complexity

    wow! cool, thanks for the info, i didnt know you could do a combo by holding the trigger, i just spammed the right trigger until they froze and did a H attack of a CDG, usually the H attack, as its faster than the CDG.

    here is another strat, never use the H attack on a heavy that has been frozen UNLESS you know you will kill him. always use a CGD (expesially is you are a light.) all that is based on playing as a light, as i play Selket as my primary char. i learned the hardway to do CDGs on heavies

  27. #27
    Skaarj
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    Default RE: Melee - Complexity

    What's parrying? I'm guessing it's when your melee attacks interupt theirs right?

  28. #28
    Skaarj
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    Default RE: Melee - Complexity

    awesome tips there vintoks. great guide!

    i was actually wondering though, i tried running through a few parrying sessions at home and the timing for the parry actually seems to vary quite a bit depending on the range you're at when the melee attack makes contact.

    for example, szalor's L1 spins around (i think it was L1 don't remember off-hand) anyway, there are actually 2 points in which a hit frame is generated, if you are close, he'll contact you at the start of his rotation, but if you are far and move in, he'll get you with the backhand motion from the end of the spin.

    note that if the first hit-able frame connects, the second never occurs. so the only time you'd get the second hit frame is if he started the animation and you moved in, or he closed the distance mid strike. I haven't tried shielding through the first hit frame to see if the second one is still generated though. anyway, food for thought.

  29. #29
    MSgt. Shooter Person
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    34

    Default RE: Melee - Complexity

    NecrisLord:
    Parrying is just reflecting a melee attack. (Left Trigger)

    Arcane:
    Yes you are right there are several areas in the animation where a melee attack can hit a person. The easiest examples to understand this would be Anubis’s and Gorge’s L3 or Raptors Heavy Attack; since they all have a really long attack animation where they can hit you throughout their entirety.

    I focused solely on the first possible opportunity to parry in the "Parry post" for the purpose of simplicity so people wouldn’t feel as lost. The parry timings I listed are for the situations where your opponent is “in your face” when they attack… However if they were leading their attack from further away to tag you very late in the animation then yes the timing is completely different.

    Also as you hinted, the key to making characters with slow combo animations (Brock, Torgr, Raptor, etc) more effective is by going specifically for the late hit animations which drastically reduces their attack recovery. This is also why chaining L1’s together is so effective for many characters.

    I doubt that double hits ever register off a single attack execution (L1 hitting someone twice). If it did we’d probably have noticed it by now, particularly with all the buffering bugs and the parry glitch.

    Anyway thanks for the feedback, it’s much appreciated. If you find anything else don’t hesitate to share. I might add to this thread later when I have more time.

  30. #30

    Default RE: Melee - Complexity

    There is one thing i didn't see in your guides that is the major difference between raiden and anbuis(i think thats speeld right)

    that is that if raiden pounces you while your in midair from a jump falling etc. he will freeze you and drive you into a wall or something for some pretty heavy damage.

    But yea great guides!!!!!

  31. #31
    Skaarj
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    9

    Default RE: Melee - Complexity

    Amazing guide.
    I was woundering if somone could make a FULL guide for one character. not just a few people posting their facts bit by bit, but all in one post.

  32. #32

    Default RE: Melee - Complexity

    Intersting data capture... very nice. Thats all good and well but timing is critical, its all good and well "knowing" when to parry. i.e "knowing" on paper. but to actually parry elite swordplay is somewhat... more complex shall we say

  33. #33
    MSgt. Shooter Person
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    71

    Default RE: Melee - Complexity

    [face_rose] ok whell theres alot to learn when it comes to melee. num 1 allways when you want to do alot of hurt to a person, you have 2 ways-a+b(takes 2 and a half bars of adrenaline) now if you do that 3 times its called a hammer and on a heavy player all you need to do is hit them 1 more time and there gone. also you have the reg charge a+right trigger. , the longer you hold down the more it hurts but you do have a limit other wise youll be back on the ground. now wait till your melee is the brightest then lung at the person. also if you do not want to you can press left trigger in midair and come back down.[face_rose]

  34. #34
    Skaarj
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    6

    Default RE: Melee - Complexity

    Quote Originally Posted by CraiZE
    A) Counters

    Each Character can not limitless Counter, they do have their own Animation for it, and time until they can counter. The Tricky part here lies that some slow characters can counter your first shot from a rocket, but not the 2nd one. Some can (fast characters) but as well not infinitely. It does drain Weapon Energy, and this leads to a very good experience.
    Not sure if this has been mentioned, but a successful deflection will not drain your melee energy, and enables you to do another consecutive deflection.

    Ie. if someone is hitting you with a stream of stinger secondary, you can rapidly tap deflect faster than you would be able to normally, and not lose melee energy.

  35. #35
    Skaarj
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    8

    Default RE: Melee - Complexity

    A key thing here is experience timing and skill. Once you get them down you can dominate anyone, even a jugernaut. I know, I've out melee level 5s. I use Malcom by the way. My tag was Neccor, you or someone you know probolly got pwned by me at some point

  36. #36
    MSgt. Shooter Person
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
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    159

    Default RE: Melee - Complexity

    Quote Originally Posted by Neccor
    A key thing here is experience timing and skill. Once you get them down you can dominate anyone, even a jugernaut. I know, I've out melee level 5s. I use Malcom by the way. My tag was Neccor, you or someone you know probolly got pwned by me at some point
    Nah, I don't remember you... and I played since the day the game was released.

  37. #37
    MSgt. Shooter Person
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    346

    Default RE: Melee - Complexity

    i remember him, slightly, but not as 1 of the best players. one of them names stuck in the back of my head.

    riddled, u wouldnt have played him cause if im right he played in unreals, and u only played in them early on.

    lol i remember the day when i used to think midways were laggier that unreals.

  38. #38

    Default

    This is like the book "soul of the samurai". alot of this stuff i know in my head from playing the game for so long but i could never put all of it into words. incredible guide!

  39. #39
    MSgt. Shooter Person
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    283
    Gamer IDs

    Gamertag: ez jamin

    Default

    hahahahahahahahahaha!
    Yup

  40. #40
    MSgt. Shooter Person
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    281

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by legacy-EPhillips View Post
    Thats a great post, and has really cleared a lot of things up for me and made me appreciate the melee element more - cheers.
    This. (10chars)
    Its Thinking.


 

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