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Thread: Public Redirects: Ideas needed!

  1. #1
    13th_Disciple
    Guest

    Public Redirects: Ideas needed!

    Ok, the short and sweet. I am considering doing public redirects. I am not right now considering bandwidth or price, as I am more interested in features, then I can base what it may cost me off what is necessary to meet maximum community needs. Here are the basics, and you folks can offer any advice you can think of. Forget the idea of bandwidth right now or any other internet based limiting factors. Assume server is configured for maximum connections, and assume all files uploaded are compressed.

    So number1 is:

    1: All files uploaded must be compressed (will only allow file extension of UT3 compressed files to be uploaded)
    2: Uploads to be done via anonymous FTP and then check for duplicate file names/sizes. If a file has the same name, different size, the we can assume that it's a new version of the file. I am sure a lot of you are like me and HATE having to deal with changing a file name in a config file for mutators and such.
    3: The uploads are placed in a queue for approval before being moved to a standard web accessible directory
    4: Files will be be distributed to multiple servers via rsync, so that no one server is loaded to the gills with connections, so to speak. Of course that is up to each server admin to use the closest redirect server.

    Now, that is just that absolute base of what I am thinking. I have tons more ideas, but the core of it all is a basic public redirect service for those with either crap connections or low storage availability. Any ideas, thoughts, hints would be greatly appreciated.

    Yes, I know this can turn into a rather large deal. As I said, forget any aspect except the basic premise of providing a place to upload files and serve as a public redirect. Thanks fellas!

  2. #2
    ANick
    Guest
    Well I been using gameservers public redirect for several years and it has been great going back to UT2003 and I think I used it for XMP and before that with Unreal 1 and UT ect I was using a public site located in NY but was shut down.

    All ucc compression .uz compress

    Right now there are issues with UT3 and the compression process does work in the latest beta patch 1.2 but will only compress large files a few %. Like from 39 mg to 36 mg just is not going to work. So I dont know if that will be fixed or if the cook is somehow effecting the compression but never the less the compression process does not seem to be like it should and I dont know if the public patch when it is released will have a good working compression.

    So at this point uploading uncompressed files to clients especially if they are large map files is very risky for servers and would tend to be a turn off to clients who have to wait for a large file then get caught in a map switch ect ect.

    If the next public released patch has a good working compression for the files then your idea will be good. Like I stated before in UT2004 and earlier I can compress a 30mg file down to under 10mg so ??

    Good luck

  3. #3
    13th_Disciple
    Guest
    the old pub redirect was STNY.. the file extension was uz2, as best i remember for ut2003/2004, but i may be wrong because i have not played either in forever.. this will be standalone redirects, no web hosting, no game servers attached. dedicated only to redirects, so they'll be fast. map sizes won't be an issue because storage is cheap right now, in the grad scheme.

    i am not going to do anything until a patch is released, except test.

  4. #4
    ANick
    Guest
    Ya that was it STNY and I used to have conversation with the guy.

    Anyway I just dont know how UT3 compression is going to work or if it will even work as we know it so we will see with the next patch release?

  5. #5
    13th_Disciple
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by ANick View Post
    Ya that was it STNY and I used to have conversation with the guy.

    Anyway I just dont know how UT3 compression is going to work of if it will even work as we know it so we will see with the next patch release?
    indeed.. the compression is about the only thing i worry about from the game side..

  6. #6
    AZ-{OVGY}
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by ANick View Post
    Right now there are issues with UT3 and the compression process does work in the latest beta patch 1.2 but will only compress large files a few %. Like from 39 mg to 36 mg just is not going to work. So I dont know if that will be fixed or if the cook is somehow effecting the compression but never the less the compression process does not seem to be like it should and I dont know if the public patch when it is released will have a good working compression.
    I doubt compression will get better, you must remember in previous versions of UT maps weren't cooked. Cooking is a form of compression, hence the reason why you start with a map that is a couple of hundred MB and end up with a map thats 15-25MB. Maps in UT3 have alot more data in them now. Since they are cooked it is virtually impossible to get any more compression out of them. If you compress a file with winzip or winrar and then compress it again, you'd be very lucky to shave half a MB off it and the same thing applies to UT3 maps now. Faster redirects are the only thing that will help this problem. Also music is now in the map files (if author added music) which makes them bigger, in UT2004, music was a seperate .ogg file and that wasn't pushed with maps.

    I've setup my own redirect for my UT3 server,

    82.29.79.45:7777 (patch 2 beta 1, compression on, 18 custom maps so far whilst testing patch)

    for me a 10MB map comes off in 30 seconds (redirect is in my town), others from UK and around reporting good speeds too.

  7. #7
    ANick
    Guest
    Yes indeed a cooked map will not compress much more that it allready is.

    I see this situation as being stuck between a rock and a hard spot and I dont think there is a good server to client solution for content push with UT3!

    As I spoke earlier in other threads about ucc compress I was under the impression that UT3 was going to be like UT2004 and earlier unreal builds as far as compression redirect but it will NOT be the same so I am now bewildered as to how community stuff will flow?

    O well good luck to whoever wants to spend the time and energy on it because when it becomes "work" versus a "fun Game" im out!

  8. #8
    AZ-{OVGY}
    Guest
    The unfortunate thing for people is that public redirects will no longer cut it, not for now anyway. With a public redirect the max bandwidth it has is distributed between whoever is using it. With a public redirect there could be thousands using it, this is why sometimes public redirects are fast and at others they are not. Sometimes the redirect will be under heavy load, for example say a redirect has 1000 servers using it, if 900 of them servers (lets say they are all 10 slot servers) are using it at the same time and they all are full with players and each player needs the maps the servers are using that would be 9000 clients downloading from the redirect, causing a slowdown due to the total bandwidth being split between all 9000 clients. UT3 only adds to this problem with its larger content. However if you have a private redirect there will be alot less likelihood of your redirect becoming under heavy load. Better still if possible, set up a redirect from home (preferably on a seperate connection to the one you use for your main pc) and use that for redirect, obviously this is the most expensive option as it requires 2 internet connections but will provide the best results as all bandwidth is used for your servers redirect and nothing else. Private redirect from a good provider should be good enough for most people though until public redirect providers can pump the extra bandwith needed to move UT3 content quicker.

    Quote Originally Posted by 13th_Disciple View Post
    Ok, the short and sweet. I am considering doing public redirects. I am not right now considering bandwidth or price, as I am more interested in features, then I can base what it may cost me off what is necessary to meet maximum community needs. Here are the basics, and you folks can offer any advice you can think of. Forget the idea of bandwidth right now or any other internet based limiting factors. Assume server is configured for maximum connections, and assume all files uploaded are compressed.
    Bandwidth and cost are the first things you need to look at and assess, it's going to take alot of both to come anywhere near to what gameservers and others allready have nevermind better them. Then you need to look at who the redirect will be tailored towards. For example you can have alot of bandwidth but if your based in the US then your no good for the UK and vice versa, nevermind having an optimal server setup so having multiple redirects, like you said is a must. Planning where your redirect servers will go will take alot of thought in order to meet your requirement "to meet maximum community needs". Then you must realise that if you do manage to set this up, the quality of service will degrade just like any other public redirect due to the fact that having a few servers using it at first will be great for them but the more that come (and they will) the more the bandwidth will be split between everyone resulting in everyone getting slower redirect speeds, this then puts you in the position of thinking "do I put more money into this" (answer to that being how much do you have? and how much can you afford to put in?) or "do I just leave it as it is" which makes it no better than any other redirect or maybe even worse. Your plan sounds good but ultimately can you fund it? and even if you can fund it, you could be out on a losing battle from the offset.

  9. #9
    13th_Disciple
    Guest
    I don't plan on gearing the redirects for anything other than NA, at this point. The majority of people getting game servers are offered a free redirect from their provider, but some are not. STNY was a single server offering redirects. I have an idea on a distributed redirect system that might could work for several hundred servers simultaneously.

    There is a lot I am not stating here, that is why I asked for a short and sweet set of requirements, as if the entire thing was in place.

  10. #10
    AZ-{OVGY}
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by 13th_Disciple View Post
    4: Files will be be distributed to multiple servers via rsync, so that no one server is loaded to the gills with connections, so to speak. Of course that is up to each server admin to use the closest redirect server.
    Could you elaborate on this for me please.

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