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Bret Hart
02-01-2008, 11:50 PM
The final version of WAR-ArcticStronghold is now ready! :cool:

Changes from the beta include:

- Alternade west / east node setups with the center node being a standalone capture node.
- Fury in center node now replaced with darkwalker.
- East node has two defense stinger turrets, west has one.
- Fixed a few areas where players could get wedged between rocks and terrain.
- Red core explosion sequence fixed.
- Core team switching now enabled at the end of a round.

Please overwrite the old map to replace it with the new.

Screenshots:

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g96/Ionium/ArticStronghold3.jpg

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g96/Ionium/ArticStronghold2.jpg

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g96/Ionium/ArticStronghold1.jpg

Download for PC:

http://files.filefront.com/WAR+ArcticStronghold+Finalrar/;10273881;/fileinfo.html

Also please get rid of the old one and replace with this.

Download for PS3:

http://files.filefront.com/WAR+ArcticStronghold+PS3rar/;9555772;/fileinfo.html

Thanks to those who helped me test this map.
And a huge thanks to LegalAssassin for helping me with the mini-map image.

Harmatia
02-01-2008, 11:55 PM
Truly an extraordinary map. It has been a work of art since the first beta, and now every little kink has been worked out. Its supremely balanced, and the node setups all play extremely well.

In the default, you have to prioritize whether you want to try and capture East and West... to get quick access to enemy prime from both sides... or if you want to capture center, and get a Darkwalker, but have a long journey to bring the weapon to enemy prime... In the alternative setups, center, with the darkwalker, becomes a "tank node", where each team can fight for control of it and use it to control access to their prime.

The decision to go exclusively necris makes this play quite a bit differently than stock maps, and the result is very enjoyable. Highly recommended to everyone; possibly the best custom warfare map available from one of UT3's best mappers.

ClockworkJB
02-01-2008, 11:59 PM
w00t, will DL and play now, give feedback later.

BuffyTheSlayer
02-02-2008, 12:18 AM
final version is out already ?:eek:
thank you ! :D

Miko
02-02-2008, 12:21 AM
I like this map very much but I have one note I want to add. What happend to the one outpost to the right of the bases that had I think a grenade launcher up there. It was a nice vantage point for sniping and also will there ever be an Axon setup for this map? It doesn't bug me if there wont be ^^.

Harmatia
02-02-2008, 12:24 AM
I like this map very much but I have one note I want to add. What happend to the one outpost to the right of the bases that had I think a grenade launcher up there. It was a nice vantage point for sniping and also will there ever be an Axon setup for this map? It doesn't bug me if there wont be ^^.

Are you on the ps3? It sounds kind of like you're missing either the East or West node... which would mean that you aren't getting the multiple setups included in the PC version :confused:

Green_Day_584
02-02-2008, 12:43 AM
Bret, you legend ;)

Bret Hart
02-02-2008, 12:45 AM
Are you on the ps3? It sounds kind of like you're missing either the East or West node... which would mean that you aren't getting the multiple setups included in the PC version :confused:

I think I know what he means. In UT2004 there was a grenade launcher before you got to the primary node, blue side, up on top of one of the cliffs. If I am remembering correctly, but not entirely sure.

And thanks everyone for the comments :)

NyghtcrawleR
02-02-2008, 01:23 AM
Well the PS3 I dont think recognizes multiple setups. I havent tried this final out but if there are multiple setups for the PC, the PS3 wont show them.

To remedy this, either EPIC has to release a fix for it or Bret should release the "best" setup for the PS3 even though that might be a matter of opinion and it may well be the version released already. As I said I havent tested this yet, so if thats not whats going on disregard what I said.

CaptainSnarf
02-02-2008, 01:44 AM
Yeah, there were some grenade launchers in the old ut2k4 version. Grenades are different now anyway. Map is great. :)

I had one wierd glitch: The secondary fire was intermittent on some weapons. The link gun was most noticable. It was like my link gun was only running on two cylinders or somethin... wierd. Still, awesome map.

Bret Hart
02-02-2008, 01:51 AM
It's probably the PS3 cooker having some bugs in it.

AnubanUT2
02-02-2008, 02:03 AM
Well the PS3 I dont think recognizes multiple setups. I havent tried this final out but if there are multiple setups for the PC, the PS3 wont show them.

To remedy this, either EPIC has to release a fix for it or Bret should release the "best" setup for the PS3 even though that might be a matter of opinion and it may well be the version released already. As I said I havent tested this yet, so if thats not whats going on disregard what I said.

Well seeing as how there are multiple versions of Torlan I am sure there is a way to do it but right now Epic hasn't provided documentation on how to just yet.

In any event this is a fantastic remake ... for those who played the ONS version you know what I am talking about. Actually the bots are even better on this map than in Ut2K4 at lower AI settings it seems. I always liked this map and dawn and torlan and rankin and it is nice to see some favs from UT2K4 making an appearance here. I still have others I would like to see but this will do nicely. Thanks for the fun WAR map ... we need more good ones remakes or original doesn't matter when it comes to WAR as long as they are well done. :)

CaptainSnarf
02-02-2008, 02:10 AM
Those glitches were on the PC version :eek: It seemed to start when I tried to heal an unlinked node.

Bret Hart
02-02-2008, 02:19 AM
Dunno what to say, did anybody else experience that?

OCK
02-02-2008, 02:19 AM
Been waiting for the final of this map. Thanks again for the map and the PS3 cook.

Bret Hart
02-02-2008, 02:25 AM
No problem.

CaptainSnarf
02-02-2008, 03:13 AM
Nevermind about the glitch :o My mouse is flaking out:rolleyes:

Bret Hart
02-02-2008, 03:20 AM
Heh, that's ok.

Sbouby
02-02-2008, 05:32 AM
nice remake, thx for this :)

Brad.G
02-02-2008, 07:40 AM
im not a big war player. mainly because im not very good at it lol, but as you made this il download it and give it a whirl :D

Darth Mail
02-02-2008, 08:15 AM
Cool :) Gotta check it out :D

Metalpain
02-02-2008, 08:56 AM
Can you post the ps3 version on http://ut3mod.com

AnubanUT2
02-02-2008, 11:42 AM
im not a big war player. mainly because im not very good at it lol, but as you made this il download it and give it a whirl :D

You have to play the gametype more if you are going to improve man. Did you play UT2K4 ... just curious. Don't worry if we are ever online at the same time you can hang with me and I will show you some pointers for how to dominate at Warfare. :p :D

AnubanUT2
02-02-2008, 11:54 AM
I like this remake but some things I noticed:

- The original one LOOKS colder ... I don't know how it really accomplished this but it does look and feel more like you are in the Arctic ... still your level makes me feel cold enough so this is not such a huge issue

- The original one looks darker and has much more fog. What else can I say ... the lights on the ONS map make the level appear as if the battle is occuring in the early evening hours. Here though I feel like I am fighting in the middle of the day or maybe earlier

- Question about the pickups: Is there a Superhealth on your level? Are there any cool pickups on this level ... like Invis or Berserk, if not then try and find a place for them (one of them of course not both) ... The spider mine thing that is in Sandstorm would work well here I think as would the slow volume green cubes.

Anyway nothing that is showstopper of course ... as said before the level is very well done ... but I do think there are a few more details that could have been added to make it an even more accurate remake. Still I love playing this level as well as Dawn and Torlan ... guess I am a sucker for the old ONS levels ... someone should do ONS-Urban next. ;)

Brad.G
02-02-2008, 01:05 PM
You have to play the gametype more if you are going to improve man. Did you play UT2K4 ... just curious. Don't worry if we are ever online at the same time you can hang with me and I will show you some pointers for how to dominate at Warfare. :p :D

no never played any of the other UT's ... losing interest in the game to be honest. others are floating around which take my fancy more.

AnubanUT2
02-02-2008, 01:43 PM
no never played any of the other UT's ... losing interest in the game to be honest. others are floating around which take my fancy more.

I can understand that believe me. Right now I am waiting for DMC4 on the 360 ... getting a little tired of shooters, I don't even want Turok right away. After that I can't wait for Condemned 2, Dark Sector, SCIV (both PS3 and 360 so I can play as both Darth Vader and Yoda) and Too Human. That's why I am not modding this time around ... just going to have fun with all the games coming out. I will say that I am interested in seeing how Haze on the PS3 turns out.

AnubanUT2
02-02-2008, 01:50 PM
Also I know why the original ONS map looks colder ... not just because of the distance fog only but because there are actually icicles and it looks like snow is covering the terrain whereas this version has more of a dry barren planet look ... yes the coloring conveys cold but that is really the only element that does. That doesn't take away from this being a great map though but it is not that Artic feeling tbh ... but as I said I still really enjoy it. Just be aware folks it is not a classic remake so much as it is a re imagining of the level. If you ever decided to revamp this some more Bret maybe consider adding elements that convey a very frigid environment. A frozen pond would also be a cool indicator, maybe light snow. :)

Bret Hart
02-02-2008, 02:24 PM
I felt like it didn't need icicles really.

TAW_GuitarSlim
02-02-2008, 10:18 PM
What a fantastic map. The first map I've played in UT3 that feels truly BIG. The necris vehicles really shine here too, and it runs with a high FPS to top it off! 10/10 man!:D

Bret Hart
02-02-2008, 11:09 PM
What a fantastic map. The first map I've played in UT3 that feels truly BIG. The necris vehicles really shine here too, and it runs with a high FPS to top it off! 10/10 man!:D


Why thanks :)

Herby
02-03-2008, 12:56 PM
Great job with the map, runs great on the PS3. Thanks Bret.

Bret Hart
02-03-2008, 02:48 PM
Great job with the map, runs great on the PS3. Thanks Bret.
No problem :)

Nagis
02-03-2008, 02:54 PM
Great job with the map, runs great on the PS3. Thanks Bret.

I was just about to ask how was the PS3 version, but Ill take your word for it.

Im downloading the Cook now and ill test it out offline. Ill give you some imput on it when its complete. ;)

Everything looks good, now time to see how it plays. Have not been downloading too many maps, Im mainly looking out for Mutators, but this one cought my eye, and thats saying something.

Nagis
02-03-2008, 03:30 PM
WOW!

Ok, im not a huge fan of Warfare, but this map? Totally made me love Warfare, its everything I wanted in UT3, and more.

The Necris Vehicles I have never really operated, but using them on this map makes the experience on this map all the more better. Hell, I never knew the Nightshade could deploy things, thank you very much for having the Necris Vehicles on this map, once again, made me discover elements of UT3 that I never seen before (And I have had this game since launch!)

However, there are a few things I want to kinda nag to you about, The East and west nodes to me served no purpose for me. In fact, the Turrent-spawn was a little...I dunno, I diddn't see the point.

But thats really about it, Had a little Frame Rate issue inside the main base, but that was because I had a bunch of bots there firing Flak cannons all at once on a bot who thought he could take out my Core, but nevertheless, I have had no problems with this. Ill be playing this for weeks to come.

Excellent work!

ohhthegore
02-03-2008, 11:48 PM
Very nicely done, big thanks for the PS3 version

Tailsnake
02-04-2008, 12:12 AM
very nice map, I'm loving basically everything you've done so far. One note though, the map is a little big for the PS3 at this point even with 16 players it feels sparsely populated, it should be much more fun on the PC with a few more players.

Hopefully epic raises the PS3 server limit to 24 or 32 with the new patch

Bret Hart
02-04-2008, 12:14 AM
No problem guys, happy to be of service :)

Tenebre
02-04-2008, 06:15 AM
Hi there, i tried this new Arctic, and it's a cool map, but i notice that with the blue base left turret, you can shoot the east node. Turrets shoudn't be able to kill node, especially if there is just one side which can do that, blue side has advantage.

Nevertheless, great job for this map ;)

D2F[Leo]
02-04-2008, 07:48 AM
Good job, looking forward to try this one online... seems pretty close to old Arctic, gameplay-wise. Vehicles, weaps etc seems quite balanced, just worried about the map being exploitable (Tenebre already pointed out the turret thing).

Base rape, here I come:

http://image-upload.biz/files/4ddb074af644500733e1ac607.jpg

Hmm... :P

http://image-upload.biz/files/436b624422f620b3001d4f764.jpg

Oh, and on a side note: I'm getting decent fps on your map, I always seem to hit the 60fps limit, even with turning the detail up for a laugh. Very Nice.

Benfica
02-04-2008, 01:15 PM
I wish I saw this thread before :( My only suggestion would be removing at least 2 vipers. With the scavengers it's a bit of "hit and run" paradise on pubs.

Harmatia
02-04-2008, 01:22 PM
I wish I saw this thread before :( My only suggestion would be removing at least 2 vipers. With the scavengers it's a bit of "hit and run" paradise on pubs.

Avrils in lockers balances that out a bit =P

Bret Hart
02-04-2008, 03:23 PM
Avrils in lockers balances that out a bit =P
exactly :D

Dozinator
02-04-2008, 04:04 PM
Good Looking map Bret.

Glad to see you at Zerofrag.com the UT3 Community.

If the guys at ZF like the map. I might put it on our UT3 ladder.;)

Brad.G
02-04-2008, 04:10 PM
just curious but is there no way of making war maps where you dont have a second ini file?

Brits__Hit
02-04-2008, 04:49 PM
Great remake dude, I remember playing this map like crazy in UT2004.

One thing I noticed is a pretty substantial FPS drop when looking out of or at the main base. I think it's due to the shader for the glass in the windows.

Visually it works very well apart from it being a bit sparse when away from the bases.

Other than that, nice map :)

Bret Hart
02-04-2008, 05:20 PM
just curious but is there no way of making war maps where you dont have a second ini file?
The second ini file is for the different node setups.

Benfica
02-05-2008, 12:20 AM
Avrils in lockers balances that out a bit =P
Avrils don't balance 7 vipers + 5 scavengers on the winning team with a lot of places to hide.

Maybe on open areas, 1on1, when you know that it is coming. Not when fighting with someone else when you have to switch weapons and hear the damn thing. It's really hit and run at it's best.

Bret Hart
02-05-2008, 12:57 AM
Avrils don't balance 7 vipers + 5 scavengers on the winning team with a lot of places to hide.

Maybe on open areas, 1on1, when you know that it is coming. Not when fighting with someone else when you have to switch weapons and hear the damn thing. It's really hit and run at it's best.
lol, reminds me of the UT2004 days of ONS-Torlan, people doing spawn camping with mantas. If you keep getting run over by vipers, you're doing something wrong.

Masaai_Warrior
02-05-2008, 05:55 AM
Congrats on the great looking map!

Can I just ask ppl, is this map being played online anywhere at all?

Bret Hart
02-05-2008, 03:07 PM
Congrats on the great looking map!

Can I just ask ppl, is this map being played online anywhere at all?
Thanks :D

And I don't think it's being played anywhere yet.

Perfect_Dark
02-05-2008, 03:12 PM
Fantastic map just like the original,cant wait till patch 2 comes out this will big a big hit online.:D

Bret Hart
02-05-2008, 03:36 PM
Fantastic map just like the original,cant wait till patch 2 comes out this will big a big hit online.:D
F-yeah!

==========

The Real Napsta
02-05-2008, 03:47 PM
Thank you so much for the Playstation 3 version. I really appreciate it.

Benfica
02-05-2008, 04:42 PM
lol, reminds me of the UT2004 days of ONS-Torlan, people doing spawn camping with mantas. If you keep getting run over by vipers, you're doing something wrong.
As usual it's not "me", because this is a team game :) The problem is a lot of players will get run over by a lot of vipers all the time.

Well, I was thinking when trying to rebuild the prime node on 24p servers. Those builders will be owned quite often unless they are covered by teammates (even under attack from other player) with avril, shock-alt, fury, nightshade tricks, etc...

Enough whining. Thank you and congrats for your great work !

Bret Hart
02-05-2008, 06:02 PM
Well it's my opinion that vipers are less to be used for running over people than a manta because of the narrower front body and wingspan. I can't help if people want to go on a viper running-over spree :p

MasterB
02-05-2008, 08:38 PM
Why are there 2 INI files in this map?

Bret Hart
02-05-2008, 10:07 PM
Why are there 2 INI files in this map?
because the one in the "config" folder is for the node setups.

SHOGUN_1
02-06-2008, 02:10 PM
Man, Ive been trying to get this map for the last hour.

I just cant get the zip file or whatever file its under.

WTF????

D2F[Leo]
02-06-2008, 02:10 PM
I know this is a final version, but I wasn't aware of any betas so I can only post that now... Imo it's full of terrain exploits and lacks blocking volumes (you can also get completely out of the map).

http://image-upload.biz/files/b3a3b1e908f252c9a18263b98.jpg

Is this intended? I can circle the whole map on these mountains, sniping, base laming and AVRiLing everything and it's very easy to find your way up there, in fact there are several ways.

I just want to point that out because you've done a great job on that remake, it will certainly be played a lot after patch 2 (probably even competitively). Would just be sad to see the fun being spoiled by a few people who exploit it all the time. I could be wrong about the impact on the gameplay, but imo it's dangerous to leave it like that. :/

Maybe you aren't willing to fix that stuff, but then at least tell us so. I can PM you screenies that show where it lacks blocking volumes.

Don't know if you even noticed my previous post (http://forums.epicgames.com/showpost.php?p=25264262&postcount=39).

Bret Hart
02-06-2008, 02:20 PM
Yes I know the map lacks blocking volumes, I didn't think it would have a huge impact on gameplay with people being able to climb up the hills with the scavenger and stuff.

D2F[Leo]
02-06-2008, 02:22 PM
As I said, I could be wrong, just want to make sure you know about it. ;) Let's see how it plays after patch 2 then.

Bret Hart
02-06-2008, 02:40 PM
I mean, chances are someone will see you climbing up there and nail you with an avril or fury :p

Madmanxan
02-07-2008, 08:00 AM
omg i loved this map from UT2004, didnt even know about the betas lol, first onslaught map i EVER played and was hooked...thanks mate downloading XD

Bret Hart
02-07-2008, 02:59 PM
No problem :D

FooZ
02-08-2008, 04:51 PM
I mean, chances are someone will see you climbing up there and nail you with an avril or fury :p



Yes I know the map lacks blocking volumes, I didn't think it would have a huge impact on gameplay with people being able to climb up the hills with the scavenger and stuff.



First off thx for your time & effort in making the map but i'm afraid its far from playable, you're attitude toward exploits and blocking volumes etc in my opinion needs to change, u can fly underneath the map in the fury and also hit people above ground emerging wherever u want, its a major exploit & only 1 of many, on any decent map it should have been sorted before calling it final, sorry if i sound harsh but thats just the way it is

In relation to the layout, the thing about the original artic was that there was lots of routes to take to the nodes, it mixed up gameplay a little with having to expect attacks from lots of different areas and when on offense being able to pick different routes to counteract different defenses.

In this version most nodes have 1 closed off route to them from each direction, this makes for boring gameplay & won't work well for Warfare

I'm not saying to make it exactly like the original artic but some of the layout that made the original artic such a great map could have been used in your version but wasn't

Objectives would have been good too & maybe a spur node that helps with map dominance or killing the core would have been a good addition



Again all my own opinions and apologies if i have offended as time was spent making the map and i really didn't set out to belittle that but i think that the potential for a remake of artic stronghold is always great but its just lost in your version

D2F[Leo]
02-08-2008, 05:18 PM
Argh, the Fury... Didn't even think of trying that, it destroys the whole map with the exploit. :/

Seriously, if you want that map to be played online you need to fix it. And sorry, no offense intended, but: The next time make sure you get decent feedback before releasing a final version. "Omagawd it haz Walkers and botpaths and looks feckin awesome!!11" can't be considered decent feedback - and that's all I can see in this thread. :rolleyes: One example for a community that's willing to give you qualified feedback can be found in my signature.

I don't know if you introduced your map on other forums as well, but picking only this board that's admittedly full of noobs that applaud anything isn't a wise choice. And as Fooz said, your attitude towards blocking volumes etc. is worrying.

I wouldn't post again if your map utterly sucked. It has potential and in order to be a contribution to this community it needs to be finished properly, cause at the moment it is not. Please do something about it.

Edit: Had a look at the Beta feedback thread, just what I expected. :x

FooZ
02-08-2008, 05:30 PM
I agree with the Leo, proper feedback is crucial when making a map, exploits, gameplay, node positioning, orb routes, defense strategys, offense strategys...all imo need to be considered

Most of the good feedback in the beta thread seems to come from people that don't know what they're talking about & didn't consider any of the above

I'm really surprised some of this stuff didn't come up...its a shame really

D2F[Leo]
02-08-2008, 05:39 PM
Yeah, it's just important to make sure to have a wide range of feedback. Looking at your Beta thread now (sorry for not playing the beta), you should have got the idea of posting it somewhere else at least since there was a ten page discussion about the map having too many Vipers - vehicle balance is a "detail" that can be brought up when you've made sure that the map itself is playable, maybe even not until it has been tried online.

Anyway, please fix that, it could be one of the better custom WAR maps we have in the future. I'm not really mad at you, Bret, but more at people who keep posting about the awesomeness of a map they have "tested" in a few botmatches, most certainly running from node to node straight. :S Gaaaah.

Bret Hart
02-08-2008, 06:21 PM
That's strange because I set the stallZ limit so you can't go higher than the cliffs?

D2F[Leo]
02-08-2008, 08:01 PM
That's strange because I set the stallZ limit so you can't go higher than the cliffs?

I guess you don't necessarily need to go over the highest cliffs with the Fury... Too late atm, so when I get round to take screenies tomorrow, I'll post some that show where it massively lacks the blocking volumes. Either here or in a PM, whatever you like more. :P

Bret Hart
02-08-2008, 08:05 PM
It doesn't really matter, because the original author is working on the same map. No use fixing mine.

ORGAN
02-08-2008, 08:25 PM
I like the map but, where i live I hate snow, lol

I'll give it a go =)

Sanch3z
02-08-2008, 09:48 PM
well, the good thing is is that you will have to republish and redistribute your map after patch 2 hits.....perfect time to rework your map. WAR-Arcticstronghold_SE has a ring to it......

Bret, dont be afraid to ask any of us at ZeroFrag for feedback. Many of us have played Arcticstronghold hundreds of times over the course of UT2k4, we wont lie to you....

Wail of Suicide
02-08-2008, 10:21 PM
A simple solution to the "Original Author is working on the map" and "It's already final, so I can't make any changes" issues would be...

Rename it to something different. WAR-Arctic is catchier than ArcticStronghold, in my opinion. You could also go with variations - WAR-PolarStronghold, WAR-FrozenStronghold, or just go with something totally original, but in keeping with the chilly theme of the map.

D2F[Leo]
02-09-2008, 08:55 AM
well, the good thing is is that you will have to republish and redistribute your map after patch 2 hits.....perfect time to rework your map.

:O

Gogogo Bret. :P


Rename it to something different. WAR-Arctic is catchier than ArcticStronghold, in my opinion.

True, since everyone is calling the map "Arctic" anyway... Damn, it would just be too sad to let it go online in such an unpolished state. :x

Bret Hart
02-09-2008, 02:22 PM
It's not "unpolished" it just has a few exploits that I didn't take into account, sheesh! If you guys had caught this in the beta, we wouldn't be discussing this right now.

Big_Al_B
02-22-2008, 05:12 AM
Awesome map, probably the best user made WAR map I've played.

AnubanUT2
02-22-2008, 05:45 AM
I agree this is a fine map ... unpolished?? Compared to what? Certainly not other user created War maps ... there are hardly any anyway so I for one really appreciate this level. I sure haven't read where other folks think the level is unpolished ... and just because Brett doesn't want to have to recook it just to change the name ... wow ... that is really something. A map this good that Brett just did as a "while I am waiting on parts of Timberland to get done" project is difficult to come by.

Also why does he have to re-cook the map because of patch 1.2 ... I hadn't heard this and I just played a DM map and have had no issues playing any levels since the first beta 1.2x. I don't understand why any mapper would have to re-cook their level because of this patch ... can someone please enlighten me? Thanks.

D2F[Leo]
02-22-2008, 07:20 AM
It's not "unpolished" it just has a few exploits that I didn't take into account, sheesh! If you guys had caught this in the beta, we wouldn't be discussing this right now.

As said before, if you want a wide range of feedback and publish your map, it's helpful to post it on more than one page.


I agree this is a fine map ... unpolished?? Compared to what? Certainly not other user created War maps ... there are hardly any anyway so I for one really appreciate this level.

Yeah, I'm sure you like its look (I do so too) and your bots find their way to the nodes pretty well, but that's no excuse for the terrible exploits which make it a huge risk to play Arctic online. You can't put a map in that state on any server (especially not public ones). Fact.

"Compared to what?" - Compared to nothing. A few crappy custom maps won't enhance the gameplay experience of that one.

We are currenty looking for maps we can add to our European Warfare pickup and we make certain demands. That's why we also have to add a fixed MarketDistrict version to the servers as soon as possible. I'd guess you don't even know of the exploit on that map that destroys its gameplay completely.

I can only repeat it: Bret's work is appreciated, he has done some nice overall work, but it's just not comprehensible why the map lacks blocking volumes everywhere so that people can get out of, under, behind the map. Glad that you like the map for your purposes, Anuban, but others don't.

AnubanUT2
02-22-2008, 07:34 AM
I can only repeat it: Bret's work is appreciated, he has done some nice overall work, but it's just not comprehensible why the map lacks blocking volumes everywhere so that people can get out of, under, behind the map. Glad that you like the map for your purposes, Anuban, but others don't.

You are wrong there dude. Plenty of folks really like this level ... a great deal ... maybe you need to look through the entire thread before you make such statements ... others in your group maybe but not folks around here as well as the PS3 players (forgot about them now didn't you). They appreciate that this is a hobby and that people don't have to pay a dime for this map. If you don't like it or it doesn't work for you don't play it ... isn't that pretty simple. Like I said Bret only did this as a side project while he is waiting to move forward on Timberland that is his main focus.

Edit: I do admit I don't play online and I know there is a pretty big difference between playing against humans and playing against bots, so of course I have to respect your opinion but I don't think you understand that this level was a quickie job ... Now Bret if you do go through the trouble of working on it some more I would request that you also consider some of those cosmetic additions I mentioned earlier.

D2F[Leo]
02-22-2008, 08:32 AM
[...] but I don't think you understand that this level was a quickie job.

Ok, if that's not a serious mapping project, I'll turn towards maps where people put more effort in. Thx for the info. :]

Just thought this one had potential - only needed little effort to put blocking volumes in certain places.

AnubanUT2
02-22-2008, 08:54 AM
Well if you want to see what I consider to be Bret's best work to date then take DM-Conveyor for a spin. You can make snide remarks all you want but the map delivered for many people and lots of folks are enjoying it while waiting for VCTF-Timberland. Hope you find a War map that suits fulfills your requirements ... if not you can always learn to make maps and craft exactly what you want. That's why UED comes included with the game.

Krag
02-22-2008, 06:48 PM
Thank you for making the map, and thank you for posting it as a .rar.
~K

SpineShanK
02-22-2008, 11:51 PM
i'm not used to have avril inside lockers :o it gives potential to have infinite avril. it's very different from stock maps where you can grab avril only on some spots and no ammo or very few ammo on most maps, but the design and everything else stand on same level that stock maps :D which is awesome!!
i would have prefered to have shock instead of stinger in all lockers like avalanche, but its cool.

very nice job.

FooZ
02-23-2008, 06:05 AM
You are wrong there dude. Plenty of folks really like this level ... a great deal ... maybe you need to look through the entire thread before you make such statements ... others in your group maybe but not folks around here as well as the PS3 players (forgot about them now didn't you). They appreciate that this is a hobby and that people don't have to pay a dime for this map. If you don't like it or it doesn't work for you don't play it ... isn't that pretty simple. Like I said Bret only did this as a side project while he is waiting to move forward on Timberland that is his main focus.

Edit: I do admit I don't play online and I know there is a pretty big difference between playing against humans and playing against bots, so of course I have to respect your opinion but I don't think you understand that this level was a quickie job ... Now Bret if you do go through the trouble of working on it some more I would request that you also consider some of those cosmetic additions I mentioned earlier.


Constructive criticism, thats all that Leo was giving and god knows this forum needs it, too many "omg you're map rocks dude" from just looking at screenshots, if this map was a quickie then it shows, the exploits cannot be ignored for online play, the fact that u don't play online really gives u no right to comment as afaik Leo was just pointing out exploits for online play only as was i earlier

Its a terrible exploit and should have been addressed before it went final, offline yeah sure np...who cares but online being able to fly under a map is a big no no, this is a fact...there really is no debating this

AnubanUT2
02-23-2008, 07:10 AM
Well there is a positive way to give criticism and a negative way and I feel it was more of the latter ... And yes I have every right in the world to comment ... its my opinion and I can give it ... I already addressed the online play thing ... you didn't need to add anything but whatever ... people are entitled to their own opinions and I have mine ... its that simple. And again people are playing this online and enjoying it ...

D2F[Leo]
02-23-2008, 10:26 AM
Well if you want to see what I consider to be Bret's best work to date then take DM-Conveyor for a spin. You can make snide remarks all you want but the map delivered for many people and lots of folks are enjoying it while waiting for VCTF-Timberland.

See, there's your error in reasoning: I don't criticise Bret as a person and not even as a mapper in general, I critise his particular work, this map. I can't ignore exploits on Arctic because Conveyor is a decent DM map. If you want to give proper feedback that helps to improve things, you need an isolated point of view. My standards are set by all the other maps I played and play, not by loyality and deference.

I know how devoted you are to this community and the modding and mapping people in particular - I guess that's why you can't have this point of view (which I respect).

But anyway, let's stop this for now, I don't want to get too off-topic. ;)

ChaseMachine
02-23-2008, 05:34 PM
Beautiful. one of my fav maps from UT2K4, and now I get to enjoy it in UT3!!

Jamez Lippy
02-23-2008, 07:28 PM
Wow, its better than some of the Original maps :) Spot on

AnubanUT2
02-23-2008, 07:50 PM
When some 90% of the folks on a thread respond with favorable reviews/thoughts about the level I think that the level is a success regardless of its bugs or exploits ... but hey that's just my opinion. :) Could it be better ... sure in many ways ... is it good enough to be entertaining ... well according to the majority of folks on this thread that answer is yes.

nick_e_b
02-23-2008, 07:58 PM
Incredible map, thanks, I agree with above poster, it does look better than many of them maps supplied with the game.

voila
02-29-2008, 08:40 PM
Thanks for great deal! However as well as great number of disappointing bugs, thats ruins skilful gameplay, doesn't make it possible to setup and play this desired map at some our publics.
Please lend an attentive ear to D2F[Leo]+ complaints and introduce a fixed solution. I beleave it will not take you very looooong time.

Bret Hart
02-29-2008, 08:44 PM
Hey, bugs can't survive the Arctic Winters anyways ;)

But seriously if you guys had pointed out these "Bugs" in the BETA forum like you should have, we wouldn't be here right now. Several people mentioned how "perfect" it was in the BETA forum and how it should go final already. Please, next time point this stuff out before you say I should release the final!!!!

voila
03-01-2008, 03:24 AM
I gotcha) Unluckily I failed to take Beta thread into account and relied upon author's game skill (pardon) as well as all required hints hb given.
U made very good attempt to refresh the old goodie. However I see some vCTF-style approaches while thats quite another pair of shoes. ONS and partly Warfare are more complex than vCTF especially in tactical precision and plans. Also you sh2b aware that Arcticstronghold is a particular specimen of seasoned ONS maps and even was exploited at worldwide cybersport competitions instead of another casual map.
Now you can make some little sincere efforts for the second revision before your work becomes considerable and realy playable.

Just FIVE+ steps:
= fix unbalanced locations and terrain tactic leaks;
= locate respawn points;
= axons cries halves;
= examine vehicles/weapons/power-ups;
= settle orb issue;

+ some visual improvements.

Tell me if you dare to do that, then let me ask who is that "original author" you mentioned above? I'd prefer to collaborate with your initiatives indeed. Sorry to disturb you.

SpineShanK
03-01-2008, 07:49 AM
exploits can ruin a map yeah.

however bret hart finished a great map and don't want to go through it again.
please respect that.

even on epic maps there are exploits. and it didn't keep some of those maps to be among the most popular ones.

Bret Hart
03-01-2008, 02:43 PM
There are bound to be exploits in every map, it depends on how you look at it. Heck I knew one guy that was always hellbent on finding map exploits, I think that was his purpose in life.

mikehc69
03-01-2008, 02:47 PM
Excellent map Bret, its the first custom WAR map I've added and it plays great!

Bret Hart
03-01-2008, 05:56 PM
Thanks very much =)

voila
03-01-2008, 07:50 PM
Bret, oh man. how annoying! I don't desire to put you out at all but u r getting off the specified point to listen an applause instead of something matter. I never spent a time with purposely looking for bugs. No, i just play with skilled teams 4 fun. Meantime a flaws and advantages shows itself easily.

Its no Game without the rules and we could not start to play chess on irregularly colored board with uneven sets of figures. Thus be sure I'm really perplexed when reds may camper blue prime, center, nearest side node and a fury on the blue base at once from one covering location above blue prime while similar opposite point shows red prime only. This is just one clear example.

GL to your further advance so I will expect your future works.

Coreper
03-02-2008, 05:26 AM
man, i love this map!
it is even better than the UT2k4 version!
great job!

FooZ
03-13-2008, 06:21 AM
When some 90% of the folks on a thread respond with favorable reviews/thoughts about the level I think that the level is a success regardless of its bugs or exploits ... but hey that's just my opinion. :) Could it be better ... sure in many ways ... is it good enough to be entertaining ... well according to the majority of folks on this thread that answer is yes.



negative....they just don't know what they're talking about in relation to a good map, read the rest of the forums, dreadful maps are getting the thumbs up all over the place

SpineShanK
03-14-2008, 12:38 PM
negative....they just don't know what they're talking about in relation to a good map, read the rest of the forums, dreadful maps are getting the thumbs up all over the place

then try to do a map that gets thumbs up. it shouldn't be too hard if dreadful maps can get it ;)

madZ
03-22-2008, 11:58 AM
Awesome!! BUMP^

E-Rev|kitten
06-04-2008, 02:31 PM
Omg the Raping map. I loved raping teams on this map back in o4 days :)

Bret Hart
06-04-2008, 02:59 PM
wtf thread bump?

xfuture
06-04-2008, 04:02 PM
PC link not working for me

Owyn
06-04-2008, 05:08 PM
very nice, i want to play this ^^

ps-download rly doesnt work

Bret Hart
06-04-2008, 05:55 PM
I updated the map a dat so it has more detail; bigger cliffs and falling snow:

http://files.filefront.com/WAR+ArcticStronghold+Finalrar/;10273881;/fileinfo.html

g0th
06-04-2008, 06:29 PM
Cool map. I really like the atmosphere

Bret Hart
06-04-2008, 07:54 PM
Cool map. I really like the atmosphere

Hey thanks :)

Syphix
06-04-2008, 10:59 PM
I updated the map a dat so it has more detail; bigger cliffs and falling snow:

http://files.filefront.com/WAR+ArcticStronghold+Finalrar/;10273881;/fileinfo.html

Sort out your snow collisions, you have made parts of the map unplayable now because of weapon collisions with the snow. I wish I could report back positively but it makes it unplayable when I can't attack a node cos my weapon fire is being obstructed by snow.

Also there are a few major AI issues. One around the blue prime node, they seem to gather a lot there. The other is under the spawn of the fury, bots just run into the pillar below it. Had around 6 gathered around that pillar like hippies protesting about saving the forests.

Visually it looks good, would have liked to have seen some axon vehicles in it though :( Always enjoy driving around in a scorpian with my blades open.