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p2xelgen
10-20-2007, 05:56 AM
DM-1on1-YET-TO BE-NAMED
Well its that time again, a new UT, new engine and a host of things to learn. Bring it on.


I've got the basic layout in max and I'm working room by room. Its going to be a temple part merged in the ground, so there will be some cave areas. Never been the best at layouts so dont expect much, I'm going for half assed layout, great theme and stunning looks. :o

I got to tell you this modelling a level within max ant a simple task. Trying to guess poly-counts for each piece of mesh, when to use normal mapping and not. Putting it all together and scale, but I get the last will have to wait and see.:confused:.


pic1
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n86/Pixelgen/DM-1O3.jpg

pic2
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n86/Pixelgen/DM-1O2.jpg


;) As each room comes together I'l post updated pics ;)

Caravaggio
10-20-2007, 06:05 AM
That door is especially cool. I would like to see some wireframes too to see what you're doing.
Shame you'll have to relight everything.

Kronos
10-20-2007, 07:13 AM
Impressive but i'd be careful on building the layout of your map so soon.

p2xelgen
10-20-2007, 07:37 AM
That door is especially cool. I would like to see some wireframes too to see what you're doing.
Shame you'll have to relight everything.

Will post, its high-poly but should make a great normal map with a little age-ing added. As for lighting, I have'nt. Well I throw in a number just so you can see the detail better...


Impressive but i'd be careful on building the layout of your map so soon.

Your right. But if I do it this way I have idea, on how and what assets I need for the levels...

p2xelgen
10-20-2007, 07:51 AM
Here you go... :)
All assets are build out of a number of sections.

Pic00
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n86/Pixelgen/Archwire00.jpg

Pic01
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n86/Pixelgen/Archwire02.jpg

Pic02
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n86/Pixelgen/Doorwire00.jpg

Pic03
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n86/Pixelgen/Doorwire02.jpg

p2xelgen
10-24-2007, 05:59 PM
Need some help :confused:
I need to create a cylinder chamber with arches but I only want to model 1 segment and then repeat it around. As the chamber is basically the same this will help save on polys, I would like to get it as close to the grid as poss. The centre piece need to have 8/2 arches raising into a doomed ceiling...

I can do it, but I'm sure theres a simple way to the way I've been doing it ?

I'm using max 07 :p

Simeon
10-24-2007, 06:08 PM
I can't see the pictures (anymore?)... perhaps they've disabled the deep linking for these forums (they = photobucket) .

p2xelgen
10-24-2007, 06:22 PM
I can't see the pictures (anymore?)... perhaps they've disabled the deep linking for these forums (they = photobucket) .

Ya I can login to photobucket but when I go to look at my images It say "You are not authorized" hell there my images.

I guess its just down at mo.
Back to the matter...

Where DG when you need him ?

p2xelgen
10-25-2007, 09:40 AM
Need some help :confused:
I need to create a cylinder chamber with arches but I only want to model 1 segment and then repeat it around. As the chamber is basically the same this will help save on polys, I would like to get it as close to the grid as poss. The centre piece need to have 8/2 arches raising into a doomed ceiling...

I can do it, but I'm sure theres a simple way to the way I've been doing it ?

I'm using max 07 :p

Anyone ???

DGUnreal
10-25-2007, 02:01 PM
Where DG when you need him ?


I'm always just a PM away... ;)



Need some help :confused:
I need to create a cylinder chamber with arches but I only want to model 1 segment and then repeat it around. As the chamber is basically the same this will help save on polys, I would like to get it as close to the grid as poss. The centre piece need to have 8/2 arches raising into a doomed ceiling...

I can do it, but I'm sure theres a simple way to the way I've been doing it ?


I hope that all of your Max scene entities are Instances, ie. the columns and such that are the same.
You will usually only be modeling/exporting one of them into UT3.
When creating entire levels in Max, you want to keep in mind that you will be breaking everything into small pieces of around 100-500 polys, with no more than one texture, and with one texture uvmap and lightmap uvmap channel per piece. So you want re-usability of instances. Large low-poly wall pieces should also be continuous so that they can be used as main occluders.

As far as map scale, the player size is the same as UT2004, but the movement and weapons allow for a scale that is about 75% of what UT2004 is.

Regarding your cylindrical chamber, if I follow you correctly, simply model 1/8th of it, keep the local axis at the cylinder center so that it rotates properly in a circle, clone-instance it manually and rotate, or use the array in Max.

cydonian
10-25-2007, 02:27 PM
does anyone have a simple obj/mesh that one can imported into, say max or maya, for character scale/height reference?

p2xelgen
10-25-2007, 05:42 PM
I'm always just a PM away... ;)



I hope that all of your Max scene entities are Instances, ie. the columns and such that are the same.
You will usually only be modeling/exporting one of them into UT3.
When creating entire levels in Max, you want to keep in mind that you will be breaking everything into small pieces of around 100-500 polys, with no more than one texture, and with one texture uvmap and lightmap uvmap channel per piece. So you want re-usability of instances. Large low-poly wall pieces should also be continuous so that they can be used as main occluders.

As far as map scale, the player size is the same as UT2004, but the movement and weapons allow for a scale that is about 75% of what UT2004 is.

Regarding your cylindrical chamber, if I follow you correctly, simply model 1/8th of it, keep the local axis at the cylinder center so that it rotates properly in a circle, clone-instance it manually and rotate, or use the array in Max.


OK:
When it comes to Instances, in a word no. So when I build a mesh and go to copy I should choose Instances ? What are the benefits of using Instance ?, is it that I only would have to make changes to one for all to change. i.e scale/uvmap.

On play scale:
I guessed would be around the same, but dont you think the players look small in the demo ?

Now for the cylindrical chamber:
The way I was modeling it was to create a cylindler and remove all but one segement and then rotate it around, snapping to grid. But I wanted the points to be on the grid, is this poss.

Thanks once again for the tips DG:

p2xelgen
10-25-2007, 05:43 PM
does anyone have a simple obj/mesh that one can imported into, say max or maya, for character scale/height reference?

hijacker :p

Dark12345
10-25-2007, 06:17 PM
That well looks like the bridge of fate , the big doors you go through , the pillars on each side , a cave/temple ( exactly like bridge of fate).
Not saying your copying it but take a look pal :).

VACkillers
10-25-2007, 06:56 PM
This map looks really impressive p2... well done on doing so much without the full editor yet...be hard to choose a map name without seeing a bit more of a layout at this stage...

Edit : DM-Hallucinogen

p2xelgen
10-25-2007, 07:12 PM
That well looks like the bridge of fate , the big doors you go through , the pillars on each side , a cave/temple ( exactly like bridge of fate).
Not saying your copying it but take a look pal :).

LoL, what you taking ?
Its a temple/church. When you enter most churches they have things like pillars/arches on each side. Bridge of Fate was large this is a small DM-1on1 map, its early days PAL.


This map looks really impressive p2... well done on doing so much without the full editor yet...be hard to choose a map name without seeing a bit more of a layout at this stage...

Edit : DM-Hallucinogen

Thanks
I'm kind of leaning towards a church themed map ??? I'm basing some of the architecture on a church, not sure at mo. I'm making it small and fast paced thats going to be fully detailed. I've nearly done with cylindrical chamber. and will be posting some pics soon.

You see you enter church though the door and there'ss a long hallway with pillars and arches to the sides. at the end of the hall there's going to be a cylindrical chamber with 8/12 arched doors days, a domed ceiling with windows and detailed sides. :cool:

who knows :confused:

cydonian
10-25-2007, 07:12 PM
hijacker :p

my bad. will start a diff thread. just thought someoen in this thread might have one.

p2xelgen
10-25-2007, 07:16 PM
my bad. will start a diff thread. just thought someoen in this thread might have one.

Its ok, just messing. PM DG. He's the kingpin of all thing UT based ? :p

VACkillers
10-25-2007, 07:17 PM
sounds like a good map.... :)

DGUnreal
10-25-2007, 11:22 PM
does anyone have a simple obj/mesh that one can imported into, say max or maya, for character scale/height reference?

You can simply use a cube or cylinder that is about 32x32x96, or look on FilePlanet for the UT2003 player models "ut2k3_characters.zip".




So when I build a mesh and go to copy I should choose Instances ? What are the benefits of using Instance ?, is it that I only would have to make changes to one for all to change. i.e scale/uvmap.


You would only use Instance on a clone when needed. For example, the columns on your map since they are all the same.
An Instance propagates changes made to the parent down to all of the children. So if you change the texture or UVW on the parent object for example, all of the children will update. It is similar to using the same staticmesh multiple times in UnrealEd. And since you will essentially be exporting your Max objects as individual pieces into UT3, this works best to get a proper equivalent design.



I guessed would be around the same, but dont you think the players look small in the demo ?


I measured the player mesh in UE3 and it is about the same height as UT2004.



The way I was modeling it was to create a cylindler and remove all but one segement and then rotate it around, snapping to grid. But I wanted the points to be on the grid, is this poss.


You can use the Slice option on the Cylinder to create a partial object.

You can set the cylinder vertices on-grid in Max either by rotating the object appropriately for the number of sides (adjust Max's Grid and Snap settings for Rotation Angle ie. 2.5), or by vertex editing it with a MeshEdit or similar.

cydonian
10-25-2007, 11:54 PM
You can simply use a cube or cylinder that is about 32x32x96, or look on FilePlanet for the UT2003 player models "ut2k3_characters.zip".


awesome. thanks man.

p2xelgen
10-26-2007, 08:12 AM
Ya all are now Instances, it only
tuck an hour to sort. :mad: ;)

p2xelgen
10-26-2007, 11:59 AM
Just completed the first test for the chamber, it fits to the grid 100% and should be a simple task to repeat around.

Test chambeer x01
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n86/Pixelgen/chambertest000.jpg

ChookWoods
10-26-2007, 02:04 PM
nice work. im a bit doubtful as to how itll turn out seeing as you havent had a real chance to get a feel for the scale of ut3, but its look good so far. i wish i could model well in 3ds max, but i plan to learn.

p2xelgen
10-26-2007, 06:47 PM
nice work. im a bit doubtful as to how itll turn out seeing as you havent had a real chance to get a feel for the scale of ut3, but its look good so far. i wish i could model well in 3ds max, but i plan to learn.

Ya I to am a little worried about that, I mean the floor for that chamber is 1024 and its around 2048 high. The arches and the ceiling are 256 by 256 and around 512 hign. :confused::confused::confused:

ChookWoods
10-26-2007, 09:45 PM
Ya I to am a little worried about that, I mean the floor for that chamber is 1024 and its around 2048 high. The arches and the ceiling are 256 by 256 and around 512 hign. :confused::confused::confused:

i guess the main thing would be keeping everything within the map in scale with each other, cause unless im mistaken, it should be easy enough to uniform scale the entire thing if it is off a little?

Blinco
10-27-2007, 01:43 AM
wow man that looks so good :D
did well

p2xelgen
10-27-2007, 04:45 AM
i guess the main thing would be keeping everything within the map in scale with each other, cause unless im mistaken, it should be easy enough to uniform scale the entire thing if it is off a little?

That ws the idea. If I had my way the level would be modelled out by now, but I'm scared to go to far ahead incase I run into issues. :rolleyes:



wow man that looks so good :D
did well

Thanks
Looks great in max, I got a feeling it going to look sh*t in UT ed, LoL... :o

p2xelgen
10-28-2007, 08:25 AM
Just tried a simple model to normal, its a dirty attempt. Its turned out ok just need to work on the Difussed maps, a weak spot for me, for sure ;)

Images
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n86/Pixelgen/z1.jpg
=Thousands of polys

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n86/Pixelgen/z2.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n86/Pixelgen/z3.jpg
=2/4polys

Cbotronv5
10-28-2007, 09:47 AM
Nice design!!

DGUnreal
10-28-2007, 12:13 PM
Its turned out ok just need to work on the Difussed maps, a weak spot for me

Depending on the mesh design, you can also texture the high-poly detail model and projection-map that onto the render model to obtain a final skin.

p2xelgen
10-31-2007, 09:16 AM
Depending on the mesh design, you can also texture the high-poly detail model and projection-map that onto the render model to obtain a final skin.


Sound good, but UV mapping a hign poly model, is hell on earth... :D:D:D

p2xelgen
10-31-2007, 09:22 AM
I'm sort of putting my map on hold into I get the editor, I've gone as far as I can without the UT engine. ;)
But I'm workout on doing models to texture :confused:

Images:
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n86/Pixelgen/53356554434.jpg

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n86/Pixelgen/43t5543.jpg

eVeNfLoW
11-02-2007, 12:01 AM
Hi

If you want your map alpha/beta tested I would be more than happy to. I come from a background of top level dueling (WCG & ESWC) and can spot the types of things that will put other top duelers off using such a map :).

p2xelgen
11-02-2007, 07:33 AM
Hi

If you want your map alpha/beta tested I would be more than happy to. I come from a background of top level dueling (WCG & ESWC) and can spot the types of things that will put other top duelers off using such a map :).


Thanks
But its a long long longgggggggggggggggg way off.


DG or those in the know:
What scale should I be rendering normal maps in 512/1024/2048 ??? ;)

p2xelgen
11-04-2007, 04:52 PM
I have come to the concluion that building a whole level in max is point less. So I'm just going to build the assets to the grid and sort the layout in UT3. The way it was meant to be...

Image:
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n86/Pixelgen/6445656.jpg

p2xelgen
11-07-2007, 11:09 AM
Hows this as a modeled texture: ???
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n86/Pixelgen/0006436765443.jpg
Any help would be great... :D

DGUnreal
11-07-2007, 04:14 PM
Looks good.
What kind of help?

p2xelgen
11-08-2007, 09:26 AM
Looks good.
What kind of help?

Thanks DG
Is that how they do model to textures? I did a simple model, rendered a light map and then then used that to build my basic texture? Its only a first go.

DGUnreal
11-08-2007, 11:24 AM
Thanks DG
Is that how they do model to textures? I did a simple model, rendered a light map and then then used that to build my basic texture? Its only a first go.

Yes, that is one method of creating custom textures.
You can also do it with paint software such as PhotoShop and PhotoPaint, use various masks/layers along with Dodge/Burn or other tools.

This can also be done right in the staticmesh.
Add this detail to the Detail mesh version, apply the basic rock texture to the faces, and when you render to texture also render an Ambient Occlusion texture and mix that with the Diffuse.

Caravaggio
11-08-2007, 07:06 PM
I would say it depends on the lighting you're going to have. If it's going to be in sunlight or around a hard light source then I think an ambient occlusion map would just fuzz it. But it would be good for soft torches and stuff. Either way the shadows there are a little harsh, just render the color without shadows and the normal separately.

I wanted to ask about that cylinder thing. Do you have a 3d model, a round surface for that? Because the normal map looks projected on a flat polygon but with something like that you might as well have a 4 or 5 polys for the half-cylinder surface.

Great work so far.

DGUnreal
11-08-2007, 07:22 PM
I would say it depends on the lighting you're going to have. If it's going to be in sunlight or around a hard light source then I think an ambient occlusion map would just fuzz it.

I wanted to ask about that cylinder thing. Do you have a 3d model, a round surface for that? Because the normal map looks projected on a flat polygon but with something like that you might as well have a 4 or 5 polys for the half-cylinder surface.


I use AO textures for virtually every mesh that I can, it adds a lot of depth to the diffuse and works fine in virtually any lighting, even sunlight.
UDN3 (to be public soon) covers a few methods of using AO's with UE3 content.
In combination with Normal Maps it creates a more realistic render mesh.

In that shot it looks like the cage was not set up correctly, as I believe he performed a projection to get the Normal Map.

p2xelgen
11-11-2007, 04:41 AM
Thanks guys
Finally gone and pre-ordered UT3 game Limited Collector's Edition (PC) ...

p2xelgen
11-13-2007, 04:10 PM
Does anyone know how simple it would be to set-up and control a camara.

I.E
I want to have a camara follow a character or object. I need to be-able to control the speed and angle. ;)

p2xelgen
11-16-2007, 09:05 AM
I'm the happest man on the planet.
I've been trying to learn how to create Ambient Occlusion, using max 07. Yaaaaaa and finally I have cracked. This will help me light models and texture a 100 folds better.


Thanks to the guys on mapcore for pointing me in the right direction...

DGUnreal
11-16-2007, 10:45 AM
Looks good.
I could have pointed you to an online tutorial if you had asked... :p

p2xelgen
11-16-2007, 11:21 AM
Looks good.
I could have pointed you to an online tutorial if you had asked... :p

Thanks
Dont like to bomb barred you with questions. Anyway its been a good learning curve to try slove the problem with little info. ;)

p2xelgen
11-16-2007, 12:42 PM
Hows this DG:
I cant seam to do it Rener to Texture style, but its working in the main views. I just Rendered an AOit in front view. If you know how I can Render to Texture an AO that would be A1 mate.


So I created this as a test:
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n86/Pixelgen/mainsave000.jpg

Flat plane:
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n86/Pixelgen/447765748.jpg

DGUnreal
11-16-2007, 01:26 PM
I cant seam to do it Rener to Texture style, but its working in the main views. I just Rendered an AOit in front view. If you know how I can Render to Texture an AO that would be A1 mate.


I own the latest version of Max so the procedure may be slightly different.

In the Render To Texture dialog, make sure to choose the MentalRay renderer. Then in the Output area where you Add the type of textures to create, you should now see the Ambient Occlusion Map listed along with Complete Map, Diffuse Map, etc.

You can actually render the Diffuse, Specular, AO, etc. all at the same time. Add the AO and the others that you want to the Output list, set their file names (ie. TX_Wall1_D, TX_Wall1_S, TX_Wall1_A) and size (ie. 1024x1024), and click the Render button. All of the specified textures will be rendered to the specified output path as individual files.

I use the AO to do a mix burn on the diffuse in PhotoPaint. This combines the two into a final in-game texture so that the diffuse is not so flat looking.

p2xelgen
11-16-2007, 03:01 PM
Thanks, but max 07 does not have an AO option in Render To Texture. I have to do sum trickery in the material editor. I then Render the Diffuse map, max 07 does not surport AO, I think.

Patarak
11-16-2007, 04:19 PM
Do you know how much learning how to use the ut04 editor will help with my future efforts to make maps in the ut3 editor?

DGUnreal
11-16-2007, 05:27 PM
Thanks, but max 07 does not have an AO option in Render To Texture. I have to do sum trickery in the material editor. I then Render the Diffuse map, max 07 does not surport AO, I think.

Max 7 supports the Mental Ray renderer does it not?
You must be sure to select the Mental Ray renderer and not the default Max Scanline Renderer in the render-to-texture, otherwise Ambient Occlusion will not appear in the list of texture types to add. Perhaps MR's AO render-to-texture ability was added later? I went from Max 5 to 9 to 2008 (I can't afford to buy every version :p ), so I don't have a lot of familiarity with the limits of working with Max 6/7/8. What options are there in the render-to-texture dialog?



Do you know how much learning how to use the ut04 editor will help with my future efforts to make maps in the ut3 editor?

Thread hijacker... ;)

If you know how to do some level design with UnrealEd3 (UT2004) it will help with about 25% of what UnrealEd for UT3 requires. A lot has changed. And a lot of people will probably have problems learning the new engine since most things are a lot more complex. However, Epic is opening up UDN3 to the public when UT3 ships (this next week?), so there will be a lot of information for mappers to use as a reference.

p2xelgen
11-16-2007, 06:16 PM
Thread hijacker... ;)

If you know how to do some level design with UnrealEd3 (UT2004) it will help with about 25% of what UnrealEd for UT3 requires. A lot has changed. And a lot of people will probably have problems learning the new engine since most things are a lot more complex. However, Epic is opening up UDN3 to the public when UT3 ships (this next week?), so there will be a lot of information for mappers to use as a reference.

It seems I'm not the only hijacker around ;)
I hope they open UDN3 soon.

DGUnreal
11-16-2007, 07:11 PM
I hope they open UDN3 soon.

I'll be sure to tell them to block you... :p

p2xelgen
11-21-2007, 04:35 PM
Sum more texture/UV work:
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n86/Pixelgen/01_TTcopy.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n86/Pixelgen/02_TTcopy.jpg