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RyGaR
09-20-2006, 02:15 AM
Hello, I was wondering if hidden weapons will be in UT2007 again as in past unreal games? I started using it a short while ago myself so im interested to know.

Slainchild
09-20-2006, 02:29 AM
I hope so...

MonsOlympus
09-20-2006, 02:56 AM
I dont see why it wont be, have you ever tried the opposite of your handiness thats just strange hey. I wouldnt mind seeing centred return as well even though I dont use it. Hidden weapons does give you a slight advantage though because you can see alot more than a person that has them show, small weapons helps that somewhat so they dont fill the screen as much. I kinda thought that an opacity level for the weapons might be better than totally hidden instead. I dunno you guys would know the advantages of hidden weapons more than I would...

iLL
09-20-2006, 05:06 AM
I'd imagine so.I will hide mine shortly after enjoying the mechanics showing and skins.Not a biggie.I betcha it will be in.

Not to mention since this game will make our pc's work hiding the weapon and its workings should give you another few frames.

Cleary
09-20-2006, 05:07 AM
Put it this way, Its going to be a futuristic version of ut99, and then again they said its going to be like playing a whole new game?..

Jake-SF
09-20-2006, 07:09 AM
Although I really don't see the point of hidden weapons (if it hides that much for you then you don't know how to look around), I am pretty sure it'll be in. Unreal 1 had the option for Hidden and Center, and all UT got it.

Cleary
09-20-2006, 07:12 AM
I was one of the only people at the time who found the redeemer... No one else knew where to get it... I swear im not saying I was the first to find it but I must have been close... no one else knew of it/used it.

fuegerstef
09-20-2006, 08:57 AM
I was one of the only people at the time who found the redeemer... No one else knew where to get it... I swear im not saying I was the first to find it but I must have been close... no one else knew of it/used it.

Err, we are not talking about weapons that are hidden in the maps... ...we are talking if the 1st person weapon model can be hidden. ;)

Cleary
09-20-2006, 09:17 AM
lol ahhh ok, I get ya now! ;)

The5thviruz
09-20-2006, 09:22 AM
I was one of the only people at the time who found the redeemer... No one else knew where to get it... I swear im not saying I was the first to find it but I must have been close... no one else knew of it/used it.

................ lol

Cleary
09-20-2006, 09:27 AM
Errm I was on about the level dreiry or something...

2th
09-20-2006, 12:18 PM
I hope so...


and if this isnt an option i personally will be raising hell MUWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :)

Scylla
09-20-2006, 12:26 PM
Although I really don't see the point of hidden weapons (if it hides that much for you then you don't know how to look around), I am pretty sure it'll be in. Unreal 1 had the option for Hidden and Center, and all UT got it.

It clears up space and it makes your shots come from the centre.

Silvester[AUT]
09-20-2006, 12:31 PM
I always enjoy the weapon animmations. So I will not hide them. Unless a weapon takes half of the screen.

sphinx
09-20-2006, 01:51 PM
ofcourse it will be, every selfrespecting FPS-shooter has it, and even if its not customizable in-menu, its always a possibillity in the configurationfiles :)

@ mr jake-sf: do you have black ductape over half of your screen with as an arguement that it wont matter because you know how to look around? Did you raise your fov above 80 btw? I mean, it wouldnt matter what fov you have if you can look around!
Either way, although the weapon might not be covering half of my screen, and i am quite skilled at looking around. A bit of extra visibillity never hurt anyone. And the animations just get boring after a while. Weaponbob should be able to be turned off too. God, when i play one someone elses pc and weaponbob is on, it affects my whole game bigtime (way more than other settings)

ShredPrince
09-20-2006, 02:55 PM
I've played both aways many many times.
I prefer to have the weapons on screen as well.

I don't see a whole lot of difference if you know what your doing.

McFly2000
09-20-2006, 04:23 PM
You know, I've always found UT's wepons to be way too big, blocking out too much of my view.

So that's why I use invis weapons. BUT - I'd really like to use visible weapons, if they only were smaller.
Q3 weapons sized are good. Could be a lil' bit smaller.

I does help to see the guns on your screen to see when exactly it's ready to (re)fire - and which weapons you're holding etc etc.
Yes, you can use the HUD icons and sounds - but seeing the weapon model just makes it better and more accurate.

So my whish for UT2k7 is SMALLER WEAPON MODELS, PLEASE
Or let us choose from various sized like in UT2k4. (the small models are still too big)

***EDIT***

Just had an idea:

How about semi-transparent weapon models?
That would be ace I think.
This way you could have the best of both worlds.

Of course, sizes, handedness, visibility and transparency should all be something everyone can customize through menu/ini.

Emmet Otter
09-20-2006, 04:49 PM
I hope small weapons is still an option.

Jake-SF
09-20-2006, 05:02 PM
@ mr jake-sf: do you have black ductape over half of your screen with as an arguement that it wont matter because you know how to look around?
Ductape looks bad. Its all a matter of opinion, it doesn't really give any advantages if your used to it. I can't stand firing with a weapons I can't see, its just seems too unreal to me. But I still want the option in since some want it that way, and nothing is wrong with it.



So my whish for UT2k7 is SMALLER WEAPON MODELS, PLEASE
Or let us choose from various sized like in UT2k4. (the small models are still too big)
I agree... in fact I never noticed the change between small and normal models (didn't really looked at it anyway). If you could scale individual weapons to your liking (or all of them... a bit like how you choose your crosshair works), then it would be nice.

McFly2000
09-20-2006, 06:02 PM
you could scale individual weapons to your liking (or all of them... a bit like how you choose your crosshair works), then it would be nice.

That would be damn sweet! :eek: :cool:

iLL
09-20-2006, 07:58 PM
Wow, I've been playing FPS games all my life and I've never played with hidden weapons. I always like to see what I'm shooting with.

You really should try it.Its nots even about the frames.Its moreso about being able to see so much more.You really do not realize what u gain until you hide them.

Many of the pros use it so I figured I too would give it a go.Its awkward at first,but after a month you will never go back.

You still have crosshairs,(different colors or style)sounds,(as you draw the wep)and wep bar(if u use it) to see what wep you're carrying.Better yet,just memorize your binds.;)

Its definitely worth a try.I did not think I would like it,but I was wrong.

Hedge-o-Matic
09-20-2006, 11:51 PM
I'm all for hidden weapons! When I'm cornered and out of ammo, and some big bruiser thinks their going to take me out, I just love to pull that shiv I carry out of my boot! Booyah! Eat that, mofo!

Flak cannons are all well and good, but nothing beats a sharpened piece of plastic hidden in your belt! I say more people oughta carry a good old fashioned shank for life's little surprises! A few minutes in the machine shop before spawning into the match is all I need to carry that little extra protection. Say hello to my little friend!

Garcia y Vega
09-20-2006, 11:52 PM
I used to use weapons hidden but after 2 years hidden, I have put them back on center. It is just more fun to see the gun shoot.

Xyx
09-21-2006, 05:54 AM
I prefer visible weapons as an extra way to differentiate between the various weapons. If done realistically, that is. Nobody would try to aim over the barrel of a flak cannon, so I don't see why a flak cannon would obscure a large part of the screen.

McFly2000
09-21-2006, 08:38 AM
I prefer visible weapons as an extra way to differentiate between the various weapons. If done realistically, that is. Nobody would try to aim over the barrel of a flak cannon, so I don't see why a flak cannon would obscure a large part of the screen.

Guns are just too big in Unreal, to be honest. :/

awaw
09-21-2006, 10:18 AM
Guns are just too big in Unreal, to be honest. :/
Did you activate small weapons?



I've tried it with invisible, but I doesn't work for me...I feel so...naked and vulnerable.

MonsOlympus
09-21-2006, 10:54 AM
Originally posted by iLL
Its nots even about the frames.Its moreso about being able to see so much more.You really do not realize what u gain until you hide them.

This is the only reason I could think of for its removal tbh, its still far below force player models on the things I can do without. Its in the normal settings screen in 2k4 so its not a ini tweak or anything, I guess thats a bonus.


Originally posted by awaw
I've tried it with invisible, but I doesn't work for me...I feel so...naked and vulnerable.

Lolz, perfect now I know what my problem was when I tried it. I just like to feel the weapon as much as I can when I fire which is impossible to do with sounds and crosshairs alone ;)

blackout
09-21-2006, 02:27 PM
There are 2 ways to play: for score or for graphics. For score, it's surely better to turn off weapon models and use low-res textures (maybe glowskins); graphics don't make you better, but it's just more fun to play itself. It depends on the player himself which opion he prefers; some have fun when they score, some have fun when they just play.

Madridista
09-21-2006, 03:14 PM
I was one of the only people at the time who found the redeemer... No one else knew where to get it... I swear im not saying I was the first to find it but I must have been close... no one else knew of it/used it.

lmfao

comment of the year imo ;)

btw

90% of the pros are using hidden weapon models... besides the higher field of view given, the player also gets more fps. its much more comftirable for me to use hidden weapons, im using it since ut99.

anyone who care about their skills and not the graphic card performance should try that out imo, its just better.

Jake-SF
09-21-2006, 03:24 PM
90% of the pros are using hidden weapon models...
Thats one more reason, I seriously don't want to be like most pro around!

Discord
09-21-2006, 03:38 PM
Thats one more reason, I seriously don't want to be like most pro around!

... then I suggest you play without a mouse as well... after all - that's what the pros do!

Edit: And here's my setup:
Hidden weaps, same X-hair (A pink dot with an outer black ring) for all weapons.
It's still super easy to know what weapon you're using, if you simply learn your binds.
It improved my skills quite noticably.

Scylla
09-21-2006, 03:40 PM
... then I suggest you play without a mouse as well... after all - that's what the pros do!


Wtf? :confused:

fuegerstef
09-21-2006, 03:54 PM
Wtf? :confused:

Jake-SF doesn't wnat to be like a "pro". So Discord pointed out that "pros" use a mouse for playing...

ShredPrince
09-21-2006, 04:30 PM
LOL @ "The Pros"

Who the UT comp internet dudes????

Your not pro unless you get paid to play PERIOD.

Theres like 2 guys who have that honor.

Scylla
09-21-2006, 04:33 PM
Jake-SF doesn't wnat to be like a "pro". So Discord pointed out that "pros" use a mouse for playing...


The way he said it implied that pros don't use mouses.

fuegerstef
09-21-2006, 04:34 PM
LOL @ "The Pros"

Who the UT comp internet dudes????

Your not pro unless you get paid to play PERIOD.

Theres like 2 guys who have that honor.

Note the quoatation marks around "pro" in my posts... ;)

MonsOlympus
09-21-2006, 04:43 PM
So umm using hidden weapons makes you pro, or your a pro because you use hidden weapons? lolz :p

ShredPrince
09-21-2006, 04:46 PM
Agreed: that junks laughable.

The only Pro I know of : Fatality plays with full settings.

Just watch vids of him playing at E3.

He does'nt use keybinds, or UTcomp, or hide weapons, or any of that stufff.

If your truly talented like that, you don't need CRUTCHES to keep you pro.

MonsOlympus
09-21-2006, 04:47 PM
Oh yeah in the ini cant you adjust weapon texture res seperate, that would give you alittle fps boost.

Xyx
09-21-2006, 05:34 PM
The only Pro I know of : Fatality plays with full settings.

Just watch vids of him playing at E3.
When bashing the wannabes, yes.

JaFO
09-21-2006, 06:19 PM
Oh yeah in the ini cant you adjust weapon texture res seperate, that would give you alittle fps boost.
We've got an engine that can push millions of polygons and megabytes of textures ... and you think that reducing the texture-resolution of a single item that is on-screen the entire ff-ing time is going to add a single frame per second ?
Under those circumstances you've got either a real crappy pc ...

// --
I hope they erase the 'hide weapons'-option, because there'd be no point in creating all those great models and animations if all players do is hide them.

Boksha
09-21-2006, 06:48 PM
I hope they erase the 'hide weapons'-option, because there'd be no point in creating all those great models and animations if all players do is hide them. How is "Selling the game" for a reason to make weapon models? :eek:

If EVERYBODY turned off their weapon models, Epic would, in fact, be better off not making any weapon models at all, rather than forcing people to look at them even though they don't want them.

sphinx
09-21-2006, 08:14 PM
Agreed: that junks laughable.

The only Pro I know of : Fatality plays with full settings.

Just watch vids of him playing at E3.

He does'nt use keybinds, or UTcomp, or hide weapons, or any of that stufff.

If your truly talented like that, you don't need CRUTCHES to keep you pro.

dude really, at E3, there is no competition, its showmatches against allround gamers and journalists made for his sponsors to show off what the hardware can handle, and for the game-developers to show their game in an environment as newb-friendly as possible.

I'm really sorry to say this, but are you really this naive?
winter CPL 2002 had forced configs for ut2003, the game was out for about 2.5 months then. None of the big gamers BUT fatal1ty performed at their own level, just because the game had just been patched, the forced config (yes, you couldnt even bind weapons except for the 1,2,3,4,5 stuff) the maplist (oceanic? please....) singe elimination, just the timeschedule, and also, playerlist (only 2 european players on spot where mTw|Crush and zulg)

Now look at zulg vs fatal1ty at eswc 2003. They both had VERY VERY VERY custom configs, and zulg won in a close game (thats still classic to me -antalus ftw-)
At this time, everyone had time to get aquanted to the game, its maps, its tactics etc. (PS. TTM WAS USED AND SO DID FATAL1TY BUT DONT TELL ANYONE ELSE!!!!)
pps. (i guess you dont know that TTM was for ut2003 what UTcomp was for ut2004)

you go ahead and junmp to conclusions after watching a marketing vid of some game-SHOW (yes its a show not a competition)

us real gamers will look a bit further than the obvious marketing tactics and do some research.

ps. just found a showcase match of fatal1ty (actually the first Q4 1on1 found on vid! you know what, both players play with standard cfg's... did he later at CPL too? NONONONONONONONONOOOOOOOO) it was at a game-show on the booth of some vidcard-producer...

keep thinking your hero performs how he does (last 3 years that's quite much below average) with standard configs. I tell you, he doesnt, and i dont only promiss that, but i've seen and used his Q3 and UT2003 configs, and trust me... just really... you make me cry.

ppps. want me to know all the names that earned more than fatal1ty in UT? Lets start with destrukt, lauke, GitzZz, frag^m, mr. frost, and on the later terms burnz, winz, stermy..... or well, lets just say, basically 75% of the european eurocup-clan's players! They dont have their own franchise, they didnt (all) win a lot of 1on1 tournaments, but i can tell, that through their -long- UT career, they can easily have earned as much as fatal1ty in his -really short- UT-career.

did you watch loose change and thought it was all truth? or did you do some research after/before? It's nice to see you are the kind of person that watches tell-sell and can convince me that "this product really works!" without ever having seen it in action.... do you have a critical look at the things you see? Or do you see fatal1ty prooving he's the greatest gamer of the world beating someone 40-1 on a gameshow where NO other "known" gamer comes? And evn if they do... will they put his loss in the vid? It's been prooven they dont.



I hope they erase the 'hide weapons'-option, because there'd be no point in creating all those great models and animations if all players do is hide them.

some day (and you may agree or disagree) you will find the little advantage it gives you comforting. Right now you dont see it as a difference, so how could it be an advantage? Maybe some day.. when you tried it for a while, you will see how usefull it can be. Just like putting bobbing or hitflashes off.... or maybe even autoweaponswitch.
For the newer players its great to see what weapon they have in hands, ad when the weapon is done switching, for the more experienced players that do it by intuition, they gain something extra (view) with their experience... deserved imo..

MonsOlympus
09-22-2006, 01:21 AM
Originally posted by JaFo
We've got an engine that can push millions of polygons and megabytes of textures ... and you think that reducing the texture-resolution of a single item that is on-screen the entire ff-ing time is going to add a single frame per second ?

Well as you said its on screen all the time, so Id say yes. But you see this is a 2k7 thread here so isnt not just one texture res you might be adjusting. Think normal, specular (mask), diffuse perhaps even dirt and cubemap, now think that the textures could be up at 2048x2048, lowering that by just one or 2 notchs to 512x512 could make a pretty big difference. Now I was just trying to point out there are other ways to deal with fps if people think hidden weapons is the only option.


Originally posted by Sphinx
some day (and you may agree or disagree) you will find the little advantage it gives you comforting. Right now you dont see it as a difference, so how could it be an advantage? Maybe some day.. when you tried it for a while, you will see how usefull it can be. Just like putting bobbing or hitflashes off.... or maybe even autoweaponswitch.
For the newer players its great to see what weapon they have in hands, ad when the weapon is done switching, for the more experienced players that do it by intuition, they gain something extra (view) with their experience... deserved imo..

Thats an awsome point you got there, it shows there is infact a disadvantage to using this type of view just like others. Even if there is the gain in seeing more you have to know when to switch weapons and what weapon you have up etc, although the latter is easier.

Something that might be useful for this is making it a server option so that clan servs or ladders etc can let people use it but on public servers its not allowed. Im not fussed really I just feel like Im at a disadvantage with some options which shouldnt really be the case, every option should be there because it serves a purpose. If its there more for the comp community then why not add those options in differently or something so they can only be used in that nature.

sphinx
09-22-2006, 05:25 AM
Something that might be useful for this is making it a server option so that clan servs or ladders etc can let people use it but on public servers its not allowed. Im not fussed really I just feel like Im at a disadvantage with some options which shouldnt really be the case, every option should be there because it serves a purpose. If its there more for the comp community then why not add those options in differently or something so they can only be used in that nature.

although i understand where its coming from, i dont really think its fair to the people that are used to play with hidden weapon. For them the "trainingcircumstances" would change as soon as they enter a public, to the -other- players it doesnt. In metaphores: Would you want Gretzky to practise his skating on land when he's got a day off, because a lot of people fall when they skate? :E
Hidden weapon CAN give you an advantage but it also gives you a disadvantage. The disadvantage can only be eliminated with experience and training, so imo its a welldeserved advantage you gain. I mean, putting off hitflashes made my battles a LOT easier and it was a huge advantage ingame. But it also took me ages to get used to back in the days i was still as newb as one could be.

MonsOlympus
09-22-2006, 05:56 AM
Yeah thats another good point but really better players shouldnt be using pubs as training grounds because it'll just turn people off who arnt training all the time. Thats kinda what I see from ut2004 atm.

The main issue I have is not that people can use them especially in clan matches etc but its providing the casual community somewhere where they can play and enjoy the game without having to worry about what settings they'll need to be competative against pro's that are practising.

Ofcoarse there are instances where a good player will use all the graphics settings, I mean I dont consider myself pro but I can hold my own pretty well in most fps' with minor practise. Its just if you add all the little things like this one, so Im not picking on this one setting here, you could attribute a few frags atleast. Its similar to adrenaline by awarding an already better player and you can see the feedback on that one.

If better players need a training ground Im sure there clan's or regular server hosts can sort out some private time for them. There is the player matching system in 2k7 as well thats been getting some attention so that'll help players fight people of similar levels. I do kinda come across like I dont want anything to do with the pro community but thats not the case, Id jump at the chance to fight people of higher skills, its just in 2k4 you can see the overwhelming gap between these. The only thing I can attribute it to other than pure skill and practise is certain game settings and knowing what to have them set on.

So yeah there will be times when it comes down to skill and practise but if a setting gives an oppertunity for a lesser skilled player to score cheap frags with little practise then an alternative of some sort should be considered.

Xyx
09-22-2006, 09:12 AM
Awesome rant on marketing vids and Loose Change. :D It sure would be easier to sleep sound when everything can be accepted at face value.


MonsOlympus does have a point, though. Just as competitive players would be taken out of their training environment when playing with forced un-hidden weapons, so do casual players when trying to make the step up to competitive. It cuts both ways. You have a more effective breeding ground for competitive players if the competitive training environment is similar to that straight out of the box.