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FliccC
08-16-2006, 05:09 PM
Hey,

everytime I hear/read something about the weapons in UT2007, most people say that the Lightning Gun will be removed in favour of the Classic Sniper Rifle. But seriously I can't find any reliable source for that information. Why is everyone talking about the removal of the LG, was it announced by Epic or is it just plain speculation?

Jake-SF
08-16-2006, 07:03 PM
It was announced, although I don't remember where.

RichyB
08-16-2006, 07:21 PM
It was announced, although I don't remember where.Lets just hope thatís a rumour or some thing, I cant stand that weapon.

AmericanWoman
08-16-2006, 07:59 PM
OMG! Don't say things like that!:(
What's a Lightning Gun?

Hawke
08-16-2006, 08:02 PM
What's a Lightning Gun?

it's sort of like a sniper rifle but not terrible

Magwa
08-16-2006, 08:15 PM
Right it is alot worse than a sniper rifle...:) oh the debate continues...LG IMO does not fit into UT it was already done in that other game ...give me a sniper like the one in unreal two or XMP ..perfect..

=XM=
08-16-2006, 08:28 PM
LG stats > Sniper stats
LG looks < Sniper Looks
LG trail > Sniper trail

Boksha
08-16-2006, 08:43 PM
Lets just hope that’s a rumour or some thing, I cant stand that weapon. I can't stand the LG tbh, but it's still better than that pathetic attempt at a sniper rifle in UT2004.
I've argued this before but the LG as it is now doesn't fit in the arsenal of an Unreal game. All of the weapons in Unreal games (besides UT2k3 and UT2k4 and maybe the console games) so far are either spiced up conventional weapons that fire regular projectiles, or an energy weapon that has properties that couldn't be explained with a conventional (non-energy) weapon.
The original Unreal actually had only a two energy weapons out of a total of 10, one of which we now know as the Shockrifle. (it was called the ASMD back then; don't ask what the abbreviation stands for) The other was the dispersion pistol, which had to be an energy weapon for it to have recharging ammo.

The LG could fit if it did something special, like being able to charge shots, or requiring line of sight to your enemy for a whole second after hitting him to do full damage.
As it is, however, it's just a classic sniper rifle with different visuals, which would fit in a Star Wars or Star Trek game, but not in an Unreal game. There's no need for it to be an energy weapon, so IMO it shouldn't be.


LG stats > Sniper stats
LG looks < Sniper Looks
LG trail > Sniper trail Agreed. The stats depend on the game though. IMO, I'd be very happy if UT2k7 had a sniper rifle that made a loud bang when it fired, no smoke, but a bright trail because of a superheated bullet or something. Either that or mandatory tracer rounds as tournament rules, as set down by the Liandri Corporation. :D (camping servers could turn the tracer off with a mutator that should be provided with the game)

Hawke
08-16-2006, 11:09 PM
The LG doesn't need any lame special attributes to be a UT weapon IMO.

9ades
08-17-2006, 01:31 AM
I kinda liked the lg, but I hate it's excessive use by all players. The firing sound is a bit weak too.
:cool:

virax
08-17-2006, 01:44 AM
The LG doesn't need any lame special attributes to be a UT weapon IMO.

Because the LG is a lame special attribute in itself. ;p

Hawke
08-17-2006, 01:47 AM
Because the LG is a lame special attribute in itself. ;p

VIRAX OUT OF NOWHERE

FliccC
08-17-2006, 01:50 AM
Whatever is better, was there an announcement of any sniper weapon (besides the Shock of course...) yet?

If thats all specualation indeed than another totally new sniper weapon could be possible too. Some sort of a mixture between the Gauss Cannon from Half Life and the Sniper Rifle of UT1 would be cool. The Gauss was one of the most inventional weapons in HL1, it was chargable up to a certain max where it did lethal damage. But the most funny feature of this weapon was the knock back it gave you when fired, it could be used for accelerating in the air as well as decelerate when falling down.

;)

Xyx
08-17-2006, 05:41 AM
I wish they'd split the weapons over the Necris and Axon teams. All the spacy exotic energy weapons for the Necris, all the boring "modern combat" stuff for Axon.


LG IMO does not fit into UT
What's more unreal, a proton-painting charge-differential-seeking lightning bolt caster or a rifle that's been around since WWII?

fuegerstef
08-17-2006, 06:01 AM
What's more unreal, a proton-painting charge-differential-seeking lightning bolt caster or a rifle that's been around since WWII?

Oh, the old "It's Unreal..." argument. :D

Gimme some popcorn, tis gonna be funneh... :p

Piglet
08-17-2006, 08:13 AM
Given the LG and the Sniper I'll only use the LG.

I only ever use the sniper when I press the bind for LG and 'aint got one!

Bjossi
08-17-2006, 08:24 AM
I have learned to love the LG, especially after installing the X-Fi patch.

Boksha
08-17-2006, 08:38 AM
What's more unreal, a proton-painting charge-differential-seeking lightning bolt caster or a rifle that's been around since WWII? I know it's a rhetorical question and I'm not supposed to answer it, but like I explained in my previous post in this thread, the answer is a rifle that's been around since WWII.

This isn't Star Wars where all guns are replaced with energy blasters just 'cause it's supposed to look flashy. This is Unreal. And if you look in the history of Unreal, you'll see that the weapons in the game are all conventional weapons unless there is some gameplay reason for it not to be a conventional weapon. The LG has no such reason. It's a point and click gun. In that sense, the Quake Railgun would fit in Unreal better than the LG, because, like a many of the weapons we've seen in Unreal, Unreal2 and UT, it's a portable/upgraded version of a weapon that (can) actually exist.

Unreal has always been about having both impossible conventional weapons and (one or two) energy weapons coexist. Replacing a regular sniper rifle with an energy version "because it is unreal" is NOT Unreal.


Whatever is better, was there an announcement of any sniper weapon (besides the Shock of course...) yet? If I recall correctly some articles in magazines explicitly mentioned the sniper rifle as a weapon in a weapons list, while leaving the LG out. I'll see if I can find some more info on it.


Oh, the old "It's Unreal..." argument. :D

Gimme some popcorn, tis gonna be funneh... :p You'd better make that an extra large pack with extra butter. The "LG is unreal so it should be in Unreal" argument is one of my pet peeves. :p

The5thviruz
08-17-2006, 09:02 AM
The LG is unreal so it should be in Unreal.

Boksha
08-17-2006, 09:23 AM
The LG is unreal so it should be in Unreal. Silence, you.

13XBMSPEC
08-17-2006, 09:29 AM
I kinda liked the lg, but I hate it's excessive use by all players. The firing sound is a bit weak too.
:cool:

I agree. Something happened when they made the Sniper Rifle for 2k4 though. Just wasn't the same. I did like the HUD when you scoped it over the LG's though.

=XM=
08-17-2006, 10:36 AM
Ok I'll say it again. Some of you seem to be confused.
The UT2007 Sniper Rifle probably won't have the same stats as either
(1) UT 1/3 Headshot Super-High RoF Sniper
(2) UT2004 lg
(3) UT2004 Smoke Rifle

Would you use the UT2004 Smoke Rifle if it had the same RoF/Dmg as the LG, a proper trail of some sort (bullet condensing water vapour as it travels/ brief laser sight brightening/whatever/...) and no smoke?

Now in terms of look and style. I would like Sniper Rifle with head exploding bullets from UT. Much better than a yellow RailGun wannabe that simply sets peoples' heads on fire (fire? pff!). Aesthetically (more functional than aesthetic tbh) the only thing the lg has over the sniper is a more visible trail. This is very useful for locating the user as well as for correcting your own aim (ping compensation).

fuegerstef
08-17-2006, 10:39 AM
Would you use the UT2004 Smoke Rifle if it had the same RoF/Dmg as the LG, a proper trail of some sort (bullet condensing water vapour as it travels/ brief laser sight brightening/whatever/...) and no smoke?

No, unless it also gives a nice visual indication when I hit a player (something similar to the LG electricity texture covering the hit opponent). Then I would use it. :)

Fuemics
08-17-2006, 10:41 AM
The child bolts annoy me a little, but while i never thought i would prefer the lg over the old snpr i very quickly changed my mind.

It is now my favorite wepon. As for the 'does it fit in the UT world' argument, i don't care one little bit. I only care if it is fun or not. I didnt think that people played UT in character 100% of the time.

Magwa
08-17-2006, 10:57 AM
I wish they'd split the weapons over the Necris and Axon teams. All the spacy exotic energy weapons for the Necris, all the boring "modern combat" stuff for Axon.


What's more unreal, a proton-painting charge-differential-seeking lightning bolt caster or a rifle that's been around since WWII?

If you compare it to the other weapons in Unreal and UT99 iy don't fit..IMO

A-Laon
08-17-2006, 11:15 AM
Personally, what I'd love the most would be a sniper-rifle esque weapon model that still fires some form of energy - tada! You have the wicked model, and you have the ideal tracer. Delicious!

Unreal or not? I don't really care. If it looks intimidating and makes people explode, I'll warmly welcome it to the series. :)

martinblank
08-17-2006, 12:52 PM
I'm not reading this whole thread, but the guys who are saying that the sniper will suck are all idiots. What, do you think they are just doing a direct port of the one in UT2004? NO! It will have a much better look and feel to it!

They even said (dont remember where) something like they are combining the best of the LG and the sniper. Just STFU until the demo is released, please.

Also, the people who are saying that LG stats > sniper stats are also not very bright, yes the LG does more damage in one shot but the sniper actually does more damage per second. They both have their ups and downs and I cant wait to see what epic has done with the sniper for UT2007.

I myself perfer the sniper in UT2004 to the LG anyway, I have better aim with it for some reason.

Also it would be sweet if they could make the sniper like the one in unreal 2. that was the only good part of that game.

Garcia y Vega
08-17-2006, 01:09 PM
The only think I don't like about the sniper in 2k4 is the slow as hell switch time, I don't even mind the smoke. If you have enough ammo for you sniper it is better than the lg cause you can just spam the shots.

Xyx
08-18-2006, 07:10 AM
The Unreal Tournament weapon set has always been characterized by a certain level of whackiness. Ripper discs, biosludge, linking, loading up six rockets at once, mines that chase people around...

I don't expect every weapon to be energy based. That would just be another kind of boring. I do expect every weapon to be not-quite equivalent to 20th century weaponry. If I want to kill people using pistols, assault rifles or sniper rifles, I'll go play CS or BF2. They're way better at that sort of stuff.

9ades
08-18-2006, 09:58 AM
As long as the weapons kill people in entertaining or messy ways, I'm happy.

Nice firing sounds would be nice too. UT2k4 was kinda weak in that department ... except for the rocket launcher and the link beam.
:cool:

Oddside
08-18-2006, 10:23 AM
...The other was the dispersion pistol, which had to be an energy weapon for it to have recharging ammo. According to the description it's a pneumatic weapon. Actually, according to the manual (well, the GOTY edition manual) only the ASMD is described as being an 'energy weapon.' If I remember correctly the impact hammer didn't actually have an ammo counter. But if the impact hammer is an energy weapon, then all weapons are, since they all need energy to work.


...like a many of the weapons we've seen in Unreal, Unreal2 and UT, it's a portable/upgraded version of a weapon that (can) actually exist. Please prove that a lightning gun cannot exist, or point me to somewhere I can look at a working (prototype) of a shock rifle, translocator, link gun, flak cannon (something that fires grapeshot doesn't count), redeemer, bio rifle, shield gun or spider mine layer. Whether or not a weapon can exist means nothing. Also, saying that the LG is the ONLY weapon that cannot exist is silly.

Anyway, besides that there is nothing wrong with energy weapons in sci-fi games. There is also nothing wrong with the LG, the main reason I prefer it over the sniper rifle is that it's too difficult to tell if the sniper rifle is on target i.e. if you hit your target or not. The scope is too basic & the puff of smoke is out place, after all, whoever heard of a 'modern' sniper rifle that uses blackpowder as a propellant? (although that would be 'unreal' :p)

However, all of that is irrelevant, look at how much the link gun has changed, who's to say that the sniper rifle will not change as much. If it turns out to be good then it'll get used, if not, no one will use it. People will still play the game regardless. Personally, I hope that it isn't just a plain old boring sniper rifle in UT2007, even a nice fancy matrix-esque bullet trail would do or even as =XM= mentioned, a vapour trail. Also, as someone else mentioned if I wanted to play a game with boring real weapons I'd go play another game instead of UT. Anyway I'll buy the game regardless of what the sniper rifle is like.

virax
08-18-2006, 01:04 PM
This discussion is pointless; it's all up to individual preference.

da ghost
08-19-2006, 11:07 AM
This is Unreal. And if you look in the history of Unreal, you'll see that the weapons in the game are all conventional weapons unless there is some gameplay reason for it not to be a conventional weapon. The LG has no such reason. It's a point and click gun. In that sense, the Quake Railgun would fit in Unreal better than the LG, because, like a many of the weapons we've seen in Unreal, Unreal2 and UT, it's a portable/upgraded version of a weapon that (can) actually exist.


The LG is an upgraded version of the sniper rifle. Epic didn't put it in Unreal because, well, it wouldn't have fit the environment very well. But with all the high-tech jumppads/vehicles/lifts/robots/weaponry in Unreal Tournament, I'd say that the sniper rifle doesn't fit in at all.

Again, this isn't Unreal, it's Unreal Tournament.

Jake-SF
08-19-2006, 11:31 AM
Again, this isn't Unreal, it's Unreal Tournament.
.............

Unreal means all titles, Tournament or not. They are ALL the same "series", but Unreal Tournament is centered around that event we call the tournament.

What you say is non-sense.

Xyx
08-19-2006, 01:56 PM
What he's saying is that the Tournament is not Na-Pali, and that weapons suitable for Na-Pali or other single player environments do not necessarily belong in the Tournament or vice versa.

The Tournament is about killing people in amusing ways. Just putting a bullet into someone is not particularly amusing. If you think it is, try CS or BF2. Both excellent games with plenty of down-to-earth bullet action.

This also applies to the nauseatingly uninspired Enforcers. I can but hope Epic will come to their senses and hands out a more original starting weapon.

fuegerstef
08-19-2006, 01:59 PM
The Tournament is about killing people in amusing ways. Just putting a bullet into someone is not particularly amusing.

ANd here we have a major problem.
The normal guns are too hard for a new player to kill someone with. So they rely on Mines and stuff.

Scylla
08-19-2006, 02:28 PM
If you love sniper rifles so much play COD or any other game along those lines :p .

Saying that the lightning gun should be in Star Wars just because it uses energy is stupid. You might as well remove the shock rifle and link gun if you think that way.


IMO, sniper rifles aren't unreal enough for a game called "Unreal tournament".



BTW, the lightning gun does have better stats then the sniper rifle.

Techn1que
08-19-2006, 11:27 PM
LG is the best sniper rifle the series has had. If it's going to be taken out for 2k7, then that is bad news to me. 2k4's sniper rifle was horrible imo. In order for it to be better, it needs a shot trace so you can learn your weapon leads.

UnrealGrrl
08-19-2006, 11:47 PM
Please prove that a lightning gun cannot exist, or point me to somewhere I can look at a working (prototype) of a shock rifle, translocator, link gun, flak cannon (something that fires grapeshot doesn't count), redeemer, bio rifle, shield gun or spider mine layer. Whether or not a weapon can exist means nothing. Also, saying that the LG is the ONLY weapon that cannot exist is silly. .

actually the g00 gun does exits...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13825218/

phear the g00!!

http://smilies.vidahost.com/contrib/ut1/globwhore.gif

da ghost
08-20-2006, 12:38 PM
things that don't belong in UT that was put in UT2004 purely for fun:

1) MR. CROW
2) Toilet car
3) Sniper Rifle

and you can't argue #3- the LG is superior in almost every way, so it surely wasn't there for gameplay purposes.
Epic can leave #1 and 2 in there as long as #3 takes the same role it had in UT2004.

Magwa
08-20-2006, 12:58 PM
Ok lets keep this civil and peacefull but please explain to me how the LG is superior in almost everyway...To Me the LG looks ugly ,sounds whimpy, has a horrible visual appeal when hitting the target,the zig zag lighting looks dumb to me,and the scope OMG the fuzzyness of it is just plain bad. Now what part am i missing that i might like? Now on the other hand i love the looks of a rifle in this game but 2k4 had the worst looking one the original one from Unreal looked and sounded the best,the one in UT was a great equalizer but it's rate of fire was to fast,the one in Unreal 2 XMP was just right great scope and sound and slow rate of fire ...i guess i never liked the LG because i had seen it already in every other FPS you know the other series...And we do not need a tracer ..if the gun has a slow rate of fire there is no need after all there are no dark spaces to hide in and after 2 or 3 shots you will know where the guy is and after all it is called a SNIPER RIFLE you are not supposed to see whare a sniper is... :)

Xenocide
08-20-2006, 01:57 PM
lg has tracer, does more damage, does splash damage, no smoke, and sounds meatier (although not by much) than the 2k4 sniper rifle, and the lg is wider and doesn't look like the 1 inch wide toy sniper rifle. and imo looks better. and there is no ridiculous time delay when switching to and from the lg, like in the sniper rifle.

I figure if they're replacing the mini with something more futuristic (tridium stinger), why not follow suit with the sniper rifle, and keep the lg.

http://www.planetunreal.com/ut2004/weapons/lightning.jpg

http://www.planetunreal.com/ut2004/weapons/sniper.jpg

Techn1que
08-20-2006, 03:12 PM
I concur with Xenocide. The LG is superior.

Magwa
08-20-2006, 04:01 PM
Ok lets break this down to the basics why do you think whatever gun needs a tracer? i mean after all it is supposed to be a stealth weapon Sniper hide ,hidden etc. now the only people i have seen complain that it needs a tracer are ones that play with Bright skins etc so my question would be do really good players think the LG is fair because they do not want to be sniped by a new player and that a sniper rifle is cheap cause you can not see the player shooting?? and please lets not get crazy or mean here just discuss...

Wail of Suicide
08-20-2006, 05:15 PM
Traits like "has splash", "weaponswitch is faster", "does more damage" aren't really relevant. Those are all up in the air.

The main reason I dislike the UTClassic sniper is because I can't [most of the time] tell where my shots are hitting. When a weapon is only firing once every second and a half or so, that's a serious problem: You can't tell if you hit or not, you can't judge how much you need to lead your target or not. Whether the weapon round has a noticeable trace (LG) or not (UTCS) isn't really all that important to me, as long as the hit-effect is sufficiently meaty that it's easy to see. I think my ideal solution is to have some shaped directional explosion where the round lands, where the direction of the explosion would indicate a general direction where the shot was coming from without drawing a line to his exact position.

MonsOlympus
08-20-2006, 05:37 PM
Hmmz, I was under the impression that the lgun did less damage to vehicles than any of the other weapons. Mind you I havent checked the 2k4 sniper rifle to see if that does less than the lgun. Might be worth checking out for this sniper vs sniper debate, I actually prefer an assualt lightning gun like the link lmao!!

SkateXer99
08-20-2006, 05:52 PM
The lightning gun fits with the futuristic-themed levels and high tech levels, while the sniper rifle fit with... well, the dungeonsm and everything else...

They should just keep the two weapons. More weapons means more ways to gib.

fuegerstef
08-20-2006, 05:53 PM
Ok lets break this down to the basics why do you think whatever gun needs a tracer? i mean after all it is supposed to be a stealth weapon Sniper hide ,hidden etc. now the only people i have seen complain that it needs a tracer are ones that play with Bright skins etc so my question would be do really good players think the LG is fair because they do not want to be sniped by a new player and that a sniper rifle is cheap cause you can not see the player shooting?? and please lets not get crazy or mean here just discuss...

No. I do not play with brightskins (xept for TAM) of course.
And for me it is not so much of getting killed by a sniper gun but using that sniper gun.

Magwa
08-20-2006, 08:30 PM
Ok so if i understand right it is more the astetics and the furueistic appeal than anything else well i can understand that...but for me i have to say a rifle feels more like a weapon than the lg and i love the idea of a small explosion where the bullet hits the wall or target etc ,that is the same reason i love the shock beam from 99 and hate the spiral from 2k3 and 4 reminds me of a rail gun shot...cool ok carry on ...

xi0s
08-21-2006, 02:02 AM
The LG is far more hot looking than the ugly Sniper Rifle. If you want WWII looking weapons, go play those games. Special effects and unique futuristic weapons with tracers and alien lg bolts is what makes Unreal Unreal. GB2WW2.

And Boksha needs to grow some imagination a little rather than trying to over-analyze why the LG doesnt 'fit in'. It's a futuristic weapon, of course it doesnt have to be explained by modern laws of physics. As long as it does its job (hitscan), and it looks good while doing it then theres nothing wrong. If you want to talk about being unbalanced, youre going off on another tangent. The primary argument most ppl have for Sniper vs LG is the looks, because thats really what matters the most right now, as whatever Epic decides to do with the damage, I'm sure they will figure out with plenty of testing themselves.

DrDoomed
08-21-2006, 06:12 AM
If epic puts a weapon in the game it FITS the unreal universe. They created it they say what fits and what doesnt. If its in the game it fits.

LG >>> 2k4 sniper

Wail of Suicide
08-21-2006, 08:50 AM
If epic puts a weapon in the game it FITS the unreal universe. They created it they say what fits and what doesnt. If its in the game it fits.

LG >>> 2k4 sniper


I don't know about that. The narrative universe of "Unreal" is comprised of what millions of people think is "Unreal." If you think otherwise I think it's probably a good idea for you to go play Xidia or some other awesome singleplayer UT scenarios that exist.

For a lot of people who have been playing Unreal since the beginning (myself included) the Lightning Gun is never going to be accepted as the sniper rifle weapon. Two titles and years of using actual sniper rifles got us accustomed to the weapon. When Epic put in the Lightning Gun, which fires dog-slow compared to the real sniper rifle, reveals your location, has uninspiring sounds, an ineffective zoom... Not to mention the Lightning Gun weapon in Quake... It was a slap of dead fish to the face.

Now, given a choice, I prefer the Lightning Gun to the UTClassic Sniper. But the Lightning Gun as the sniper weapon? I don't know. If Epic had originally introduced the Lightning Gun as a dedicated anti-Vehicle weapon or something else - something new - I'd be happy with it. I don't think I'll ever be entirely happy with the LG as-is.

Just a general note: Not sure why people seem to be anti-bullet weapons. 2 or 3 weapons that use bullets is not an overwhelming portion of the arsenal.

Xyx
08-21-2006, 09:02 AM
I have nothing against bullet weapons as long as they're somewhat original, and not modeled after, say, a WW2 MP-44 Sturmgewehr or M16 with a scope.

JohnDoe641
08-21-2006, 02:00 PM
I kinda liked the lg, but I hate it's excessive use by all players. The firing sound is a bit weak too.
:cool:
The ltg sound was much "boomier" in 2k3, I have no idea why they made it sound so pathetic in 2k4. :c

FliccC
08-21-2006, 04:20 PM
The LG is unreal.

A normal shot doesn't kill you, a Headshot does increased damage but is hard to achieve. Now the Splash Damage and the visible trail is just awesome. I don't care how it looks like, it just matters how it is interacting with the rest of the game. I can't think of a Hitscan-Weapon which is better for UT2004 - What is best for UT2007 we don't know, but I think Epic will do the right thing to make it balanced and fun.

Boksha
08-21-2006, 05:20 PM
I figure if they're replacing the mini with something more futuristic (tridium stinger), why not follow suit with the sniper rifle, and keep the lg. The stinger is just as futuristic as, say, the rocketlauncher or the flakcannon.


And Boksha needs to grow some imagination a little rather than trying to over-analyze why the LG doesnt 'fit in'. It's a futuristic weapon, of course it doesnt have to be explained by modern laws of physics. As long as it does its job (hitscan), and it looks good while doing it then theres nothing wrong. I think it looks crappy and doesn't fit in with the other weapons, killing immersion.
It seems I have a somewhat different idea of what Unreal is about than a lot of you people. To me, Unreal is a series of games where realism is ignored for gameplay reasons (you can carry both a giant portable rocketlauncher and a flakcannon with full ammo without being the slightest encumbered) but where plausability still plays an important role. In that world, I expect some futuristic and outlandish weapons, but I don't expect things to be replaced by sci-fi weapons just because it looks cool.
Finally, I think the LG looks like a stupid toy gun, not like a weapon.


If epic puts a weapon in the game it FITS the unreal universe. They created it they say what fits and what doesnt. If its in the game it fits.

LG >>> 2k4 sniper Funny you should mention that. Apparently Epic now thinks the LG doesn't fit into the game because they're not putting it in UT2007. Yay.

Raffi_B
08-21-2006, 05:35 PM
UT2k4 lightning gun > UT2k4 sniper rifle

Seriously, the UT2k4 sniper rifle was a joke. If they take the Ltg stats and put them on the sniper rifle it would have been a hell of a lot more fun to play with.

If they are putting the sniper rifle back in, hopefully they will use the UT2k4 Ltg as a starting point.

Boksha
08-21-2006, 05:38 PM
I'd be very surprised if Epic doesn't realise by now that in terms of gameplay, the LG worked a LOT better in UT2k4 than the sniper rifle.

HellFox
08-21-2006, 05:46 PM
The stinger is just as futuristic as, say, the rocketlauncher or the flakcannon.

I think it looks crappy and doesn't fit in with the other weapons, killing immersion.
It seems I have a somewhat different idea of what Unreal is about than a lot of you people. To me, Unreal is a series of games where realism is ignored for gameplay reasons (you can carry both a giant portable rocketlauncher and a flakcannon with full ammo without being the slightest encumbered) but where plausability still plays an important role. In that world, I expect some futuristic and outlandish weapons, but I don't expect things to be replaced by sci-fi weapons just because it looks cool.
Finally, I think the LG looks like a stupid toy gun, not like a weapon.

Funny you should mention that. Apparently Epic now thinks the LG doesn't fit into the game because they're not putting it in UT2007. Yay.who said you are actually carring the wepons, they are probably been tranlocated from somewhere else to you when you want them:rolleyes:

just becouse they are not puting lg in 2k7 it doesnt mean epic think it doesnt fit in unreal universe

fuegerstef
08-21-2006, 05:48 PM
I'd be very surprised if Epic doesn't realise by now that in terms of gameplay, the LG worked a LOT better in UT2k4 than the sniper rifle.

Quoted for truth... ....looks aside. I am on your side. :)

MysTikal
08-21-2006, 05:54 PM
Im sort of stuck on this one. They did say something about making the sniper more UT99 like, which I am looking foward to, but I will miss the LG. Im hoping for the best here.

Boksha
08-21-2006, 05:58 PM
who said you are actually carring the wepons, they are probably been tranlocated from somewhere else to you when you want them:rolleyes: And your point is?


just becouse they are not puting lg in 2k7 it doesnt mean epic think it doesnt fit in unreal universe I was going by DrDoomed's own logic there.

Xyx
08-22-2006, 06:58 AM
The stinger is just as futuristic as, say, the rocketlauncher or the flakcannon.
The rocket launcher and flak cannon are brutal exaggerations of existing weapon designs. The sniper rifle an almost exact copy of a 52-year-old rifle design, except it has a scope tagged on and a crappier fire rate.

Boksha
08-22-2006, 06:23 PM
The rocket launcher and flak cannon are brutal exaggerations of existing weapon designs. The sniper rifle an almost exact copy of a 52-year-old rifle design, except it has a scope tagged on and a crappier fire rate. Well, the stinger is also a fairly regular weapon, except in that it fires projectiles of a fantastic material.
Also I never said the sniper rifle couldn't be beefed up a bit. In fact on several occasions (once this thread even) I've already suggested superheated bullets to explain a bright tracer.
How about bullets that contain a tip creating a plasma at the point of impact?

Used_condom
08-23-2006, 05:00 AM
Ok lets keep this civil and peacefull but please explain to me how the LG is superior in almost everyway...To Me the LG looks ugly ,sounds whimpy, has a horrible visual appeal when hitting the target,the zig zag lighting looks dumb to me,and the scope OMG the fuzzyness of it is just plain bad. Now what part am i missing that i might like? Now on the other hand i love the looks of a rifle in this game but 2k4 had the worst looking one the original one from Unreal looked and sounded the best,the one in UT was a great equalizer but it's rate of fire was to fast,the one in Unreal 2 XMP was just right great scope and sound and slow rate of fire ...i guess i never liked the LG because i had seen it already in every other FPS you know the other series...And we do not need a tracer ..if the gun has a slow rate of fire there is no need after all there are no dark spaces to hide in and after 2 or 3 shots you will know where the guy is and after all it is called a SNIPER RIFLE you are not supposed to see whare a sniper is... :)


u sounded like a total noob.. experience players do not sit still and camp with the LG (not even with the sniper) retard... The LG is mostly used for quick shot (especially when someone runs around a corner with half of their body exposed.) and it it hits, follow by a minigun or shock rifle... the LG was never meant for campers.

oh... most players I've seen played using the LG (Combat carl, stryfe, lauke...) almost never use the zoom. I personally never use it. I see well enough that I can hit another player even across a very big map...

i dunno why u care so much about looks....if the sniper fired like the LG, I'd use it even though I do not like the way it looks. Even if the LG was just a stick, I'd still use it.....

Oh forgot.. I always play with weapons hidden, so looks do not matter...

Used_condom
08-23-2006, 05:04 AM
I don't know about that. The narrative universe of "Unreal" is comprised of what millions of people think is "Unreal." If you think otherwise I think it's probably a good idea for you to go play Xidia or some other awesome singleplayer UT scenarios that exist.

For a lot of people who have been playing Unreal since the beginning (myself included) the Lightning Gun is never going to be accepted as the sniper rifle weapon. Two titles and years of using actual sniper rifles got us accustomed to the weapon. When Epic put in the Lightning Gun, which fires dog-slow compared to the real sniper rifle, reveals your location, has uninspiring sounds, an ineffective zoom... Not to mention the Lightning Gun weapon in Quake... It was a slap of dead fish to the face.

Now, given a choice, I prefer the Lightning Gun to the UTClassic Sniper. But the Lightning Gun as the sniper weapon? I don't know. If Epic had originally introduced the Lightning Gun as a dedicated anti-Vehicle weapon or something else - something new - I'd be happy with it. I don't think I'll ever be entirely happy with the LG as-is.

Just a general note: Not sure why people seem to be anti-bullet weapons. 2 or 3 weapons that use bullets is not an overwhelming portion of the arsenal.

of course it should be made slow.. it does 70 dam after all. And why do u want it fast? so u can spam in a close combat? Like i said, the LG was meant for a quick shot..especially in 1v1...not in a group of players with flaks and rocs..:cool:

Xyx
08-23-2006, 06:01 AM
Well, the stinger is also a fairly regular weapon, except in that it fires projectiles of a fantastic material.
Also I never said the sniper rifle couldn't be beefed up a bit. In fact on several occasions (once this thread even) I've already suggested superheated bullets to explain a bright tracer.
How about bullets that contain a tip creating a plasma at the point of impact?
The Stinger has a pretty unusual altfire for a minigun. (and portable miniguns are an urban legend started by Predator...)

If you stick some fancy visuals onto a simple sniper rifle, you just get a simple sniper rifle with fancy visuals. The flak cannon and rocket launcher are more than just a shotgun and a SRAW with fancy visuals.

Molgan
08-23-2006, 06:22 AM
u sounded like a total noob.. experience players do not sit still and camp with the LG (not even with the sniper) retard... blablabla etc
**Removed my own response after I calmed down and came to my senses.. :)

Scylla
08-23-2006, 06:29 AM
The flaming begins!

Boksha
08-23-2006, 08:22 AM
The Stinger has a pretty unusual altfire for a minigun. (and portable miniguns are an urban legend started by Predator...) As if portable flak cannons exist. :p
Besides, you don't think the rocketlauncher and flak's alt-fires are unusual?


If you stick some fancy visuals onto a simple sniper rifle, you just get a simple sniper rifle with fancy visuals. The flak cannon and rocket launcher are more than just a shotgun and a SRAW with fancy visuals. This goes even more for the LG. Like I said, the LG is currently basically a regular sniper rifle painted in Star Wars/Trek/Gate colours. If we're going to have a regular sniper rifle, I'd love it if it at least looked like a sniper rifle. If we're going to have an LG, I'd expect it to do a bit more than a regular sniper rifle.


oh... most players I've seen played using the LG (Combat carl, stryfe, lauke...) almost never use the zoom. I personally never use it. I see well enough that I can hit another player even across a very big map... Whoah. Your "most players" includes a whopping total of 3 players, all top 1on1 players, that play 1on1 maps. :p
That's hardly representative is it?


i dunno why u care so much about looks....if the sniper fired like the LG, I'd use it even though I do not like the way it looks. Even if the LG was just a stick, I'd still use it.....

Oh forgot.. I always play with weapons hidden, so looks do not matter... So the fact that you're playing with weapons hidden makes it so looks aren't important to other people?
Right.

Xyx
08-23-2006, 03:24 PM
As if portable flak cannons exist. :p
Besides, you don't think the rocketlauncher and flak's alt-fires are unusual?
No and yes, which is precisely my point.


the LG is currently basically a regular sniper rifle painted in Star Wars/Trek/Gate colours.
It has different flavor (color, lightning, minibolts, slow reload with sound alert, camera instead of scope), but yes, it could do with more unique gameplay features.[/quote]

Denk
08-26-2006, 08:26 AM
Sniper rifle just doesn't fit in the arsenal - real life gun/ammo, all other guns are fictive (maybe assault rifle aint...) Come on :p

LG > Sniper Rifle

Apathy
08-26-2006, 08:38 AM
LG is gone.

Meledictum
08-26-2006, 08:46 AM
LG is gone.
Cya on the other side, LG. We will miss you. hehe. I'd like the old Sniper Rifle more than LG, because it looks like a real sniper rifle, maded for long range combat.

[BGZ]Cpt.Howdy
08-26-2006, 03:11 PM
Lighting gun and shock rifle are great weapons that require skilled palyers and in my opion are one of the reasons UT is great. If i wanted to use a sniper rifle Id play CS:S or BF2. Im excited to see some of the new things epic has done with 2k7 but would like to see it retain some of its orginal apeal.

See you all in 2k7 ftw :)

Apathy
08-26-2006, 03:16 PM
Cpt.Howdy']Lighting gun and shock rifle are great weapons that require skilled palyers and in my opion are one of the reasons UT is great. If i wanted to use a sniper rifle Id play CS:S or BF2.
Or the original UT.

Hanji
08-26-2006, 03:22 PM
Hmm, all other weapons look damn nice in UT2007, imagine the LG(zaaaap, pssss), droooooool.

DarkBytes
08-27-2006, 04:14 AM
droping the LG in favour of a sniper rifle is just wrong, took a lot of skill to wield the LG properly in 2004, also completly out of context of the game.
here we are with all these fantastic futuristic weapons , oh an this crappy old sniper rifle that farts a bit when u fire it .


hello all btw o/

Wowbagger
08-27-2006, 04:51 AM
Hello and Welcome DB :)
I must say i prefer the LG, the SR feels so...dated, now

Wail of Suicide
08-27-2006, 12:49 PM
I've been playing around with UScript lately and have created a Lightning Gun that uses the Classic Sniper Rifle graphics (model + trace, explosive impact, no-smoke). The #1 thing I notice is how much more effective I am using this weapon compared to the LtG. I've consistently noticed that when emitter particles are spawned close to the frustum I get momentary but noticeable lag/skipping/delay. This happens when the smoke in the UTClassic Sniper Rifle is spawned, or when the lightning beam emitter from the Lightning Gun is spawned, or when viewing a smoking vehicle up close.

Magwa
08-27-2006, 02:28 PM
Or the original UT.

Or just plain old Unreal...:) <------<<< still my favorite sniper rifle..

amsterdam528
08-27-2006, 04:31 PM
I kinda like the Lightning Gun now (mostly cause the 2k4 Sniper sucked) but I'd really a more Unreal or futuristic looking Sniper Rifle than our WWII model we currently have for 2k4.

Apathy
08-27-2006, 04:52 PM
Probably going to look something like this. (Unreal Championship2)
http://members.cox.net/joseph0483/uc2sniper.gif

Image tags don't work, so it seems you have to click the link?

Hopefully the sniper rifle doesn't fire the same as the UC2 one though. If you're not zoomed in, it shoots 3 bullets, and seems impossible to get a headshot while not zoomed in.

Draco
08-27-2006, 05:02 PM
lets face it guys the lg "gheyed" up UT04 DM. it turned what was once a action in your face fighting style game (ut99) into a distant defensive game (ut04). so now instead of sh!t blowing up all over, and some intence in your face fighting, you have people sitting all the way across maps poping back and forth from behind walls trying to lg eachother.

take grendal for instace, 90% of that map is people camping and poping back and forth from behind walls shooting there lg all the way across the map. THIS IS UT!! if i wanted to camp and shoot at people half way across the map then i would go play CS.

im sure epic feels the same way and has seen the over use of the LG kill the game play of ut04. and that is why they are planing on taking it out of the game, they want to see that ut99 in your face fighting style come back, instead of the run away with your shild gun up, defensive camping and shooting half way across the map with the lg game play. (that is also why they are axing the shild gun from ut07 as well)

GuntiNDDS
08-27-2006, 05:06 PM
its not so much the lg's fault that 2k3/4 gameplay turned into a more distance fight. dodge-jumping had to do with it (and how based on that the level-design adjusted) added to it.

i think tho it was propably a good decision to bring the sniper rifle back in, or some mixture of what the lg and sr were - if they make it right. :)

iLL
08-29-2006, 06:53 AM
I will be disappointed to see it go.After 2 years I finally get decent at it and they yank it.BS.All they have to do is tone the damage down a bit.Maybe the farther away you are the less damage it should do to discourage sniping,camping,and slowing the intense in your face ut style that makes the game fun.

How do they expect noobs to have fun and advance when they are getting lg'd from everywhere and anywhere?

One hit and your dead or going for health.The LG is more of a good to great players weapon.Also how do fight a mid to long range LG player with goop,rox,or flak.You don't.You're forced to learn the weapon and it takes time so many new players lose interest fast.

Personally 2 years ago I hated it.A year later I liked it.Now I feel naked without it.I wish it to stay and get balanced somehow.

Kharn
08-29-2006, 07:01 AM
I love the LG, its got a nice SLAP-IN-DA-FACE property the "smoke" rifle fails miserably to match.

Yes i loved the old UT sniper (it was a bit overpowering to use again), but the LG has that special something that sets it apart from other games.

Saying it does not fit in the Unreal universe is just your opinion, and if Epic put a gun into thier universe, it obviously bloody belongs!

sneaky
08-29-2006, 07:04 AM
The Lightening Gun is the best FPS gun made, ever!

Draco
08-29-2006, 07:09 AM
yeah but you are all missing the point....

LG+movment+shildGun = Defensive style UT
and
defensive style UT = CRAP!

and look how that perfectly lines up with the exact same things epic has decided to get rid of in 2007(they got rid of the LG, got rid of dodge jump and toned down movment, and got rid of shild gun)....Geee i wonder why. A defensive ut is a crap ut, an offensive in your face ut is the way it was ment to be played. Defensive ut which i see ALL the time now in 04 when i play DM and TAM is "lets camp half way across the map with the lg, and if we get in real danger, just pull out the shild gun and run away....only to pull out your lg again once we got away..." that is why epic is getting rid of these 3 elements of game play. it kills what ut was and should be.

although, yes its a wepon that alot of us have gotten to love, even i use it (cause it may sound like im bashing it) but the fact is the game will be better off without it. no matter how much we all might like it, it just will be a better game. so just let it go, u will see the game will become more balance, more in your face, more exciting, and just overall better.

Nuky
08-29-2006, 07:14 AM
They did not get rid of LG, it's now called sniper rifle.

Draco
08-29-2006, 08:17 AM
They did not get rid of LG, it's now called sniper rifle.

LOL, no they got rid of they lg, they have always had the sniper rifle, they have the sniper rifle in 04, but no one likes it cause it does less damage than the lg does, and it creates that "puff of smoke" that gets in your view. so YES THEY GOT RID OF THE LG.

DaXx
08-29-2006, 08:25 AM
I really love the LG in ut2k4 and i hope that the Lg will be in 2k7 too.

The Sniper Rifle on Deck 17 isnt bad its fun to play with it...

So anyway im looking forward to 2k7

bulldog
08-29-2006, 08:30 AM
I know a lot of players hated the hi-speed fire of the original snipers rifle in UT - there has been a lot of discussion about the weapons in UT2007 and essentially that the sniper rifle itself is outdated being so old. Perhaps a counter argument to both those 2 criticisms would being the high rate of fire makes the original SR 'unreal' and therefore not out of place at all.....

anyways - I personally think that the LG was a better 'fit' for the future of UT.
it's more furturistic however:

the fun of UT SR was it's speed and deadliness - I mean on ClanBase there was a saCTF ladder created and it was fun to play in that.
so how could the LG take the place of the SR?

well - pretty easy if you want to do something radical....up the recharge speed so the same rate of fire is achieved and make a headshot the top third of a player as in the original UT.

Kharn
08-29-2006, 08:30 AM
yeah but you are all missing the point....

LG+movment+shildGun = Defensive style UT
and
defensive style UT = CRAP!

and look how that perfectly lines up with the exact same things epic has decided to get rid of in 2007(they got rid of the LG, got rid of dodge jump and toned down movment, and got rid of shild gun)....Geee i wonder why. A defensive ut is a crap ut, an offensive in your face ut is the way it was ment to be played. Defensive ut which i see ALL the time now in 04 when i play DM and TAM is "lets camp half way across the map with the lg, and if we get in real danger, just pull out the shild gun and run away....only to pull out your lg again once we got away..." that is why epic is getting rid of these 3 elements of game play. it kills what ut was and should be.

although, yes its a wepon that alot of us have gotten to love, even i use it (cause it may sound like im bashing it) but the fact is the game will be better off without it. no matter how much we all might like it, it just will be a better game. so just let it go, u will see the game will become more balance, more in your face, more exciting, and just overall better.

Im sorry i fail to see the difference between the sniper and LG when it comes to ranged defensive fighting..... why will it be more in your face simply cos its a sniper and not an LG????? please enlighten me

Draco
08-29-2006, 09:03 AM
Im sorry i fail to see the difference between the sniper and LG when it comes to ranged defensive fighting..... why will it be more in your face simply cos its a sniper and not an LG????? please enlighten me

because no one knows how the sniper will be in 07, and if they impose the same restrictions on it as they did in 04 then yeah it will make a major difrence in how much people camp at far distances with the lg. these restrictions i talk of are the less damage delt, the NO SPLASH DAMAGE (which makes it easy to hit targets even when u miss them), the big puff of smoke in your face which impares your vision...any any other ideas they have. if its the same or atleast 2 of the 3 things from 04 carried over to the 07 sniper then yes it will make a major difrence.

also another point is with the sniperrifle, its very dificult to tell if you actualy hit the person (baring u dont have hitsounds installed on your server) with the LG u see the person light up white, so u know u hit them. with the sniper if u are at a decent distance, u have no idea if u hit the person or not so it makes it much harder to predict how much health they have left. which often leads to peeps getting impatent and leaving there camping spot to go "fight" because they may be fireing off 3-4 rounds and not sure exactly where there hitting or if they are hitting the player (when in fact 1-2 of those rounds may have hit but they have not idea).

all of that combined is why u rarely ever see the "classic sniper rifle" ever used anymore. its always lg lg lg lg, so with it gone it will change the game play, if it wouldent why is there such a fuss over it ever since epic announced they were getting rid of it LOL.

FrostBiteEST
08-29-2006, 10:09 AM
I love sniper rifle its good to camp n1 sees u when y fire but with LG everyone sees where the shot come so sNiper 10p!!!

DaXx
08-29-2006, 10:27 AM
I love sniper rifle its good to camp n1 sees u when y fire but with LG everyone sees where the shot come so sNiper 10p!!!

Yes thats true, but Sniper does less damage then lg. And everytime you shoot with the sniper you have that smoke and i think that is a bit confusing

LunarBlackcat
05-03-2008, 06:30 PM
Hey,

everytime I hear/read something about the weapons in UT2007, most people say that the Lightning Gun will be removed in favour of the Classic Sniper Rifle. But seriously I can't find any reliable source for that information. Why is everyone talking about the removal of the LG, was it announced by Epic or is it just plain speculation?
Lightning Gun Mod anyone?

Tailsnake
05-03-2008, 06:44 PM
you just revived a topic that's over 1 year old....

LunarBlackcat
05-03-2008, 06:52 PM
you just revived a topic that's over 1 year old....
Only cause I knew you were the only person who would realize that. Just testing you.