Are Linux and Android in the UDK roadmap?

[mathnode]

Serious question, unless we seek investment for a UE3 license, we wont be having Linux and Android ports of our UDK projects.

I am sure those of you also looking into this problem as well as me have come up with the following:

-Seek investment and develop everything from the start, we think we are going to make a tidy profit with our game, but it's nice not to be under pressure from investors.

-Develop and release for Mac and Windows, make enough money to purchase a UE3 license.


Other Linux options:
-Unity, small capital required.
-Self-Develop OpenGL engine, very time consuming.
-Other free/opensource/lowcost engines lack great tools for artists.

It would be really nice to Have an Ouya and Steam Linux launch title.


EDIT: I have posted this into the wrong forum section entirely....... very sorry, can a mod please move to UDK General please?

[darthviper107]

Why do you want to support Linux?

Android I can understand but there's an extremely limited Linux audience

[Snufkin]

I forgot about Linux, that's just how pointless it is.

[slowJusko]

A large number of people would drop Windows completely if Linux support was available for more games.

The only thing keeps me using Windows on my main computer is UDK and a few games.
Everything else I do on my machine can be done with Linux.

[darthviper107]

I see nothing that indicates that game support is what's keeping people from using Linux

And certainly what wouldn't draw people would be indie games

[Zeqzy]

Udk can cook for Linux dispute what the outdated udn page says http://udn.epicgames.com/Three/Conte...ml#Commandline
However a build of unreal engin is needed to play the game on Linux
The only way Linux And android support will be added is throught logic will it be worth adding to udk

[Scudmire]

I definitely think the UDK should be ported to linux.

Valve and Blizzard among other influencial companies have said Windows 8 is major step in the wrong direction and Valve at least are porting all their games to Linux. The UDK has pretty much become the best option for Indie devs and it would be a shame if it lagged behind others in this respect.

[mathnode]

Udk can cook for Linux dispute what the outdated udn page says http://udn.epicgames.com/Three/Conte...ml#Commandline
However a build of unreal engin is needed to play the game on Linux
The only way Linux And android support will be added is throught logic will it be worth adding to udk

Very interesting thank you. I shall investigate this later. Especially the "tegra" option currently documented, it would insinuate a much more broad platform support. I am particularly interested in how shaders are exported for multiple platforms, or at least how the engine binaries translate UDK materials into what must be pre-defined rendering platforms (libgcm, opengl, directx etc).
Hopefully a Linux binary compiler will appear one day.

P.S. RIP Mojoshader....?

[Zeqzy]

There has not being a unreal engine game for Linux however one was being worked on http://icculus.org/cgi-bin/finger/fi...&time=06-38-30 epic will have a copy of that build and could be distributed like macos and iPhone builds of ue are in .stub zip files
The current build of udk says it can cook for platform=[xbox360|pc|pcserver|pcconsole|ps3|linux|macosx|iph one|android|ngp|wiiu]
Also to get more options in unreal frontend open build.properties and add a ; before udk=1

[darthviper107]

I definitely think the UDK should be ported to linux.

Valve and Blizzard among other influencial companies have said Windows 8 is major step in the wrong direction and Valve at least are porting all their games to Linux. The UDK has pretty much become the best option for Indie devs and it would be a shame if it lagged behind others in this respect.

It's extremely unlikely for Linux to gain any ground, even with support from Valve. There's really no reason to. And as for Windows, even if Windows 8 sucks and does poorly, it won't matter because there's still the vast majority of users that use Windows. I think most people would stick with Windows 7 anyways unless they need to use a tablet, in which case Windows 8 would actually be a good choice for them. Windows 8 isn't a replacement for Windows 7, it's basically adding a tablet option and it will do well for that function.

[chrustec]

Just food for thought... Android is based on the Linux Kernel so if there is Android support (which there is for licensees if I recall) then Linux support would not be too far out of reach. Especially once Steam starts to get momentum on the Linux platform. But Like with iOS I would imagine it would be a ways off.

[Marenz]

There has not being a unreal engine game for Linux however one was being worked on http://icculus.org/cgi-bin/finger/fi...&time=06-38-30 epic will have a copy of that build and could be distributed like macos and iPhone builds of ue are in .stub zip files
The current build of udk says it can cook for platform=[xbox360|pc|pcserver|pcconsole|ps3|linux|macosx|iph one|android|ngp|wiiu]
Also to get more options in unreal frontend open build.properties and add a ; before udk=1

woa, thanks for the clue with teh build.properties. I don't have the latest UDK, but the one from March. I can't find the linux option there. Was it added in the last update?

[Zeqzy]

woa, thanks for the clue with teh build.properties. I don't have the latest UDK, but the one from March. I can't find the linux option there. Was it added in the last update?

No it does not have an option you have to use command prompt.
Do in cmd drag and drop the 32 or 64 bit udk.exe file and type anything you want from the list here http://udn.epicgames.com/Three/Conte...ml#Commandline

[Marenz]

Ah, thanks to you I found a whole new world
So, building for plaform linux works, but as I can't find an according binary anywhere, I assume the cooker never creates the actual game binaries but just makes the content packages including uc scripts for the according platform and the installer just uses the existing UDK.exe with those cooked packages. So what would be needed is simply a linux UDK binary, correct?

[Zeqzy]

Yes cooking only makes your content readable by that build of the engine there could be hidden platform options like the android option says it is not found and flash cooking is not listed and needs dll to cook the startup packages like all console platforms do

[Marenz]

Darn. So near and yet so far away.

[Dashiva]

Darn. So near and yet so far away.

Well, I guess that problem is solved:

http://i.imgur.com/mISPw.jpg

[tegleg]

I assume the cooker never creates the actual game binaries but just makes the content packages including uc scripts for the according platform and the installer just uses the existing UDK.exe with those cooked packages.

when you make an android game with ue3 you have to build the pc .exe and also cook for android, then mess around in visual studio (with android sdk's and such installed) to actually get the .apk file that android wants.
its such a long winded process involving several programs and sdk's i doubt it would ever make it to udk in its current form.

its possible within this world to have a game engine that packages for pc and android at the click of a single button, shame epic havnt got that far with it yet.
fingers crossed

[RNG]

Well, I guess that problem is solved:

http://i.imgur.com/mISPw.jpg

That is the first Unreal Engine 3 game on Linux, ported by the same guy(Ryan C. Gordon) that ported Unreal Tournament 3. It's possible it's the same port, but he's saying it's the first title he shipped with SDL 2.0, so it might be completely different.

Ryan C. Gordon has ported bunch of games and apps to Linux before by himself, including Unreal Engine 2 games, so I doubt Epic is involved with this, or would start getting involved in Linux projects in the future. Maybe Valve may persuade them now that they are pushing towards Linux (via both client and Steam console), but I just don't see it. Not for UE3 anyway.

[Dashiva]

That's actually me running it in the screenshot. It's got some bugs due to SDL 2.0 but hey, it's amazing as is. Icculus says he's fixing them at the moment (I actually got an email and a tweet both from him and the Humble Bundle people, they've been really amazing about it and fast with a fix for my particular issues).

I think Epic might still be open to Linux ports in general, IIRC the UT3 port was cancelled because of middleware, not because they didn't have the port working. In fact, I can remember the first 64-bit game I tried was UT2k3 on Gentoo way back in 2003, not to mention UT99 and Rune, which I remember fondly on Linux. That means that there's a tradition of Linux support at least somewhere a long the line which bodes well for the future.

I've heard Epic describe themselves as a tool company and I think market forces will drive them back into some sort of Linux support, especially with the looming threat of Unity and the possibility of the Steam box. I'm not sure you'll see an option to cook to Linux in UDK, but I wouldn't imagine source based UE3 ports are too far away. With a Steam box in every living room it'd be silly not to backport some older UE3 games. Look at all of the things people just go through to be in the Humble Bundles (which IMO are the best thing to happen to Linux gaming in 5 years).

[iniside]

Sorry for small necro bump. But there is Android version of UE3.
What do you guys think android is ? It's Linux.

That's funny thing. But GNU/Linux is most popular operating system used in the world. Just not on Desktops, which make entire thing even more funny if we consider that it was meant for desktops first.

[Muuse]

Why do you want to support Linux?

Android I can understand but there's an extremely limited Linux audience

I forgot about Linux, that's just how pointless it is.

I see nothing that indicates that game support is what's keeping people from using Linux

And certainly what wouldn't draw people would be indie games

Haters gonna hate; but have you guys actually tried Linux? Linux is a very pleasant environment and at its core it is a lot cleaner and more stable than Windows.
I have Ubuntu on my laptop and my desktop and whenever I know I'm not going to do any gaming, game developing, or music writing (I have Reason for Windows)... Then I very much enjoy using Linux.
In fact, I've done a little web development work as well and Linux is miles better there. And as more and more stuff moves to the web and web technologies, lots of developers will prefer Linux.

As far as games, Linux is every bit as capable as other platforms; it's just that almost no developers put any thought or effort into making a Linux version. You may say "game support isn't all that's keeping people from using Linux", but every step helps.
It's a vicious circle: Companies don't make their software run on Linux because no one uses it... Adobe, Epic, Propellerhead Reason, Valve/Steam, Blizzard. If they all agreed to support Linux at once, a lot of people would switch to it. But alas, it's a slow process.

Someone has to take a risk and make the first step.

Once Steam and Valve games are on Linux, an admittedly small number of people will be very happy and praise Valve and start using Linux a lot more.

Maybe then Epic will see a little more potential and finish their Linux build. That will add more games, more happy users, and more Linux usage.

Then, imagine if Adobe released Photoshop and Flash. There are thousands and thousands of professionals who rely on Adobe's programs for their work and that's why they can never truly leave Windows/Mac.

I believe it's going to have an exponential effect. Like a tidal wave: building and building.

Android is growing fast and it's built on Linux. Google is one of the biggest most powerful companies in the world, right now. If Google made their own Linux distro, and Steam was there with every Valve game, and maybe some Unreal games... And tons of popular indie games are already on Linux....? Heck, I'd drop Windows in a heartbeat. I'd find alternatives to the Windows programs I use, even if they weren't as good.

[darthviper107]

I've tried Linux and it's not as easy to use as other OS's

There has to be an actual advantage to using Linux, for Valve it's that they wouldn't be competing with Microsoft's game delivery platform. Other than that the only possible reason for anyone to want to use Linux would be the support of programs and users, which it doesn't have and can't get without those things already.
Considering that PC's are becoming less popular (because of tablets/phones) there's no hope for Linux because it would be competing for something that's already losing the market anyways.

[iniside]

I've tried Linux and it's not as easy to use as other OS's

There has to be an actual advantage to using Linux, for Valve it's that they wouldn't be competing with Microsoft's game delivery platform. Other than that the only possible reason for anyone to want to use Linux would be the support of programs and users, which it doesn't have and can't get without those things already.
Considering that PC's are becoming less popular (because of tablets/phones) there's no hope for Linux because it would be competing for something that's already losing the market anyways.

??? What do you think is running on smartphones and tablets ? It's Linux..

And Ubuntu is as easy as to use as any other system. Bah. It's even easier than Windows if you wish. You guys should stop talking about legends that cloud be valid few years ago and look how it look today.

[darthviper107]

Smartphones and tablets do not run on linux. What they are today is a far cry from what they started off with, it's irrelevant.

Your last sentence doesn't make any sense.

[iniside]

Smartphones and tablets do not run on linux. What they are today is a far cry from what they started off with, it's irrelevant.

Your last sentence doesn't make any sense.

Android = Linux that's aboout of 70% of mobile devices market. The same executable format, same ABI, same OpenGL, the only difference is presentation Layer. Which is irrelevant as games usually draw single window and draw rest into it.

Google is active developer of Linux Kernel, Along with Intel, Samsung, and pretty much everyone who uses Linux. And Kernel is what matters when it comes to porting. You really should stop talking about things you clearly don't know about and do your research first.

I'm sure it doesn't make sense. Especially if haven't installed Ubuntu in last 6 months.

[darthviper107]

I know what I'm talking about, it's based off linux but there's enough changes where that hardly matters. It certainly has nothing to do with PC's running linux.

What I was saying doesn't make sense is you said something about clouds and legends

[iniside]

Linux is hard = Legend.

Nothing ? It's has entire damn ABI and Kernel in common. I'm waiting till you show some facts instead of posting empty phrases. So you know. You can write native applications on Android.

Other than that EOT from my side. You really don't know what are you talking about.

[tegleg]

android does not = linux
its based on linux but its not the same thing at all

[iniside]

Ok. Then maybe point me out on list those "differences". Because right now what I see is claims about it's different because it's different..

[darthviper107]

They can't run the same programs and Android is specifically designed for mobile devices. And it's different enough that it doesn't matter if it's based off Linux, it means nothing at all as to why Epic should support linux. Take for instance there's differences enough between UDK releases that can make things not compatible and that's far less different than Android to Linux.

[tegleg]

omg have you even researched this at all?

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4...ile-os-android
http://www.itworld.com/mobile-wirele...nux-same-thing
http://www.differencebetween.net/tec...oid-and-linux/
http://jeffhoogland.blogspot.fr/2011...snt-linux.html

[iniside]

Yes. And there is really not much that make Android Kernel different from standard Linux kernel. It still implement POSIX. It still uses the same binary executable format. The main difference is that Android version is more lightweight.
Operating system is definitely different. But Android is still much closer to let's say Ubuntu than BSD is to Mac OS X.

[tegleg]

linux and android kernels parted company some time ago
so basicaly nothing is the same

its like saying spanish and italian are the same thing, they have the same roots but the similarity ends there

[extrinsic_simian]

I think this thread has moved away from what it is really about.

It would be really nice to Have an Ouya and Steam Linux launch title.

An Andriod and Linux game exe are in the wild, but will they be moved into any UDK release at any point? I'm looking forward to both platforms of Ouya and a Steam Box as a developer with high hopes for both platforms. Has anyone tried to use the exe from either platform and running their own code to see if it works? Also what legal issues would this cause? I'm not sure if Epic had a hand with the linux release and what license Dungeon Defenders is currently under for those ports.

[mathnode]

Haters gonna hate; but have you guys actually tried Linux? Linux is a very pleasant environment...

Computer Chronicles, 1985, an episode about Unix. The presenters bang on about how the future of computing is shiny, easy to use interfaces.
This video is littered with famous faces from computing history telling us how important it is to have portable and cross platform development strategies. Prepare to get your nerd rage on as these so called IT journalists just smirk, and glaze over the importance of portable development platforms. Them words, they ate them. They tasted bitter. And nobody is learning a lesson. Hell, even Tim Sweeney changed gears and based UnrealScript on the niceties of C++/Java, rather than VBA, the knowledge and skills are transferable!

Sure enough every current environment is based on Unix; Windows NT, OS X, Linux, all have at one time or another at least partially supported POSIX.

Everyone seems to have forgotten how hard companies like Sensible Software work to get their games out to several platforms. Nothing has changed. The same problems exist, because not enough people adopt portable development strategies.

[mathnode]

android does not = linux
its based on linux but its not the same thing at all

Sorry:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=si...Flinux+android

Android is using Linux as much as a server or desktop uses Linux. There is no difference, a kernel is a kernel. Native binaries are built and an image is booted.

This is the point of a monolithic kernel. The links you posted don't exclaim anything.

Without trying to sound pretentious; from one of the posts you linked, do you even know what this means?:

"At low level, Android has a different lightweight C standard library the bionic LibC. Instead of X11 it uses video framebuffer device. To make the OS lightweight on Android only a subset of POSIX standard is implemented."

[mathnode]

I think this thread has moved away from what it is really about.

Indeed!

An Andriod and Linux game exe are in the wild, but will they be moved into any UDK release at any point? I'm looking forward to both platforms of Ouya and a Steam Box as a developer with high hopes for both platforms. Has anyone tried to use the exe from either platform and running their own code to see if it works? Also what legal issues would this cause? I'm not sure if Epic had a hand with the linux release and what license Dungeon Defenders is currently under for those ports.

If I had the budget for a source code license I would get cracking. But after seeing the Occulus Rift, I am not currently wondering how to cut corners to fit our release on a less powerful platform like Ouya.

But I can see great potential in a UDK to Android/Ouya toolchain. The community at large would go nuts with it. Because that's why I started this thread, creative freedom is a wonderful thing.

[extrinsic_simian]

I can see the potential in releasing on the Andriod Platform. But me personally I'm looking forward to the Steam Linux client coming out of beta and in turn what the Steam Box console could do for gaming and the computer desktop. I'm personally not as excited about Ouya.

[cxcx]

This thread hasn't received attention in a while but there are still some things that should have been said so I just say them:

First, I think of that sentiment as strange:

Why do you want to support Linux?
Android I can understand but there's an extremely limited Linux audience

Why would you not want to support an operating system that possible customers use? I would understand if you feel it's just too expensive to maintain a port. But not "why do you even want to support it?"

There has to be an actual advantage to using Linux, for Valve it's that they wouldn't be competing with Microsoft's game delivery platform. Other than that the only possible reason for anyone to want to use Linux would be the support of programs and users, which it doesn't have and can't get without those things already.

Actually a big reason is that it is free and open source software. Many people feel like the quasi monopoly of windows is a bad thing (in general, not even because it is Microsoft) and they don't want to give Microsoft any more money as a prerequisite for many game. There's also the concern, that many media providers like netflix, lovefilm etc. are pushed to proprietary microsoft technology (silverlight) for content delivery that works on nothing else than Mac OS or Windows.
If you need more reasons for concern, have a look at this list: http://www.groklaw.net/staticpages/i...05010107100653

Now, to allegedly android != linux.

They can't run the same programs and Android is specifically designed for mobile devices. And it's different enough that it doesn't matter if it's based off Linux,

Actually starting with linux 3.3, about a year ago, google merged many of their changes back to mainline. As far as I know a current linux kernel and android userland should work together without problems. The differences are really just minor tweaks that make the mobile experience better. It doesn't change much for userspace software like games.
As far as I know there should be no problem at all running most statically compiled (for arm) linux binaries on android. Some examples are packaged in the app terminal ide: https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...tacuside&hl=de

GCC 4.4.0, make 3.82, ctags, javac, java, dx, proguard, aapt, apkbuilder, signer, ssh, sshd, telnetd, bash 4.2, busybox 1.19.2, vim 7.3, nano 2.2.6, midnight commander 4.8, htop 1.0, TMUX 1.5, links 2.7, rsync 3.0.8, git 1.7.8, *****X 1.1

Only the lack of a native X server could prevent you from running some software. I think an X server should run as long as there is a ddx and the kernel part of the gpu drivers expose the necessary things.

it means nothing at all as to why Epic should support linux.

True.
But saying "android is not linux and linux programs don't run on android" helps nobody.

My summary:

Why UDK should have a linux version

• prevent vendor lock-in to microsoft's and apple's products
• give customers freedom and choice of their platform
• having a cross platform product is great for advertisement to techy people

Why UDK should not have a linux version

• perhaps more expensive to maintain than the expected financial gain