Editor/Game tight integration and other than FPS games questions

[Fratyr]

Hello,

I'm a Unity3D developer, I like everything about it, except the graphics... I want to try something more juicy like UDK
Mainly, I'm concentrated on isometric camera games (RPG style) or casual arcade / slider games.

The problem is, while Googling it before coming here, I came to a lot of experienced user posts saying that the biggest minuses with UDK is:
1. There's no tight integration between a game editor and code editor itself, and you have to switch between 'em every time to test what you did. Which sounds very time consuming and boring for newcomers who just started to learn UDK. Will this be solved by Epic Games any time soon?
2. For every interactive object you have to apply it a script, which sounds odd if it's just a physics object that needs to be moved or destroyed. Is this really an issue for you?
3. Mainly, UDK was designed for FPS games.. how hard is to make casual games, sliders, 3rd person, isometric games etc...? Which is more suits my profile.
4. Any gaps you guys willing to share that I may encounter trying to do the game I like to do, other than shooters?
5. Is it possible to use native programming languages in UDK, other than their own implementation script? Like Java/C# that will wrap the game and just use the integrated language(UnrealScript) to communicate with base core of t he engine, but all the calculations etc.. to do in a more flexible language such as C#?
6. Is there a networking API for UDK? Is it good? Or as bad as Unity's native networking API... But for Unity's excuse, there's a Photon Networking server which fixes all the gaps of Unity. Something similar for UDK? Is it network games capable at all?

Thanks for your time. Looking forward to get some nice answers. Please don't start holy wars, I'm not in any way trying to hurt UDK fans, nor promote Unity3D, I just want to hear from UDK users, other than Unity users or some neutral users on other gamedev forums.

[Graylord]

1. It's not really bad at all. You have to build scripts then restart UDK, but it's quick and painless.
This has always been and will not change, especially now that Unreal Engine 4 is on the way.
You need to keep in mind that the editor is really just a level editor, not a game editor.

2. That doesn't make much sense. You can create physical objects right in the level editor.

3. UDK was not specifically designed for FPS games, though there are several FPS specific features, since it has mostly been used for FPS games. The template that come with UDK for free are designed for FPS games, since they are based on UT3. Making things like sidescrollers, platformers, shmups and such is really easy.

4. Gaps? You mean things the engine would lack? Well, the main things I can think of to consider for when you plan your game, it does not support true orthographic views and true 2D, such as animating sprites. It does to a degree work, but it's not it's not directly feasible as is.

5. No. All coding is done through Unrealscript.

6. As I've only been working on single player, I can't say much on this, but I know you can use several API's, you can use steam, direct IP connect, and it might still support gamespy, not sure.

[Fratyr]

1. It's not really bad at all. You have to build scripts then restart UDK, but it's quick and painless.
This has always been and will not change, especially now that Unreal Engine 4 is on the way.
You need to keep in mind that the editor is really just a level editor, not a game editor.

2. That doesn't make much sense. You can create physical objects right in the level editor.

3. UDK was not specifically designed for FPS games, though there are several FPS specific features, since it has mostly been used for FPS games. The template that come with UDK for free are designed for FPS games, since they are based on UT3. Making things like sidescrollers, platformers, shmups and such is really easy.

4. Gaps? You mean things the engine would lack? Well, the main things I can think of to consider for when you plan your game, it does not support true orthographic views and true 2D, such as animating sprites. It does to a degree work, but it's not it's not directly feasible as is.

5. No. All coding is done through Unrealscript.

6. As I've only been working on single player, I can't say much on this, but I know you can use several API's, you can use steam, direct IP connect, and it might still support gamespy, not sure.

Nice and short. Very effective help. Thanks a lot

[ambershee]

I should point out that there are many things you can do to improve your workflow. You can avoid #1 for things like balancing by making use of archetypes; wherein you can change default properties from within the editor.

[Spoof]

Hello,

I'm a Unity3D developer, I like everything about it, except the graphics... I want to try something more juicy like UDK
Mainly, I'm concentrated on isometric camera games (RPG style) or casual arcade / slider games.

The problem is, while Googling it before coming here, I came to a lot of experienced user posts saying that the biggest minuses with UDK is:
1. There's no tight integration between a game editor and code editor itself, and you have to switch between 'em every time to test what you did. Which sounds very time consuming and boring for newcomers who just started to learn UDK. Will this be solved by Epic Games any time soon?
2. For every interactive object you have to apply it a script, which sounds odd if it's just a physics object that needs to be moved or destroyed. Is this really an issue for you?
3. Mainly, UDK was designed for FPS games.. how hard is to make casual games, sliders, 3rd person, isometric games etc...? Which is more suits my profile.
4. Any gaps you guys willing to share that I may encounter trying to do the game I like to do, other than shooters?
5. Is it possible to use native programming languages in UDK, other than their own implementation script? Like Java/C# that will wrap the game and just use the integrated language(UnrealScript) to communicate with base core of t he engine, but all the calculations etc.. to do in a more flexible language such as C#?
6. Is there a networking API for UDK? Is it good? Or as bad as Unity's native networking API... But for Unity's excuse, there's a Photon Networking server which fixes all the gaps of Unity. Something similar for UDK? Is it network games capable at all?

Thanks for your time. Looking forward to get some nice answers. Please don't start holy wars, I'm not in any way trying to hurt UDK fans, nor promote Unity3D, I just want to hear from UDK users, other than Unity users or some neutral users on other gamedev forums.

1. I tend to work exclusively in code and rarely use the editor. You can compile, launch and test without using the editor at all and iterating this way can be very fast. However, you cannot recompile while the editor is running.

2. I build most of my classes from scratch, but that's a personal preference. There are plenty of ready-to-go classes in the API for handling static meshes, physical actors, debris, etc. You drag what you need from the class browser into the scene, set a few properties and away you go. It depends on your desired workflow.

3. Unreal Engine evolved from the Unreal game series, so has a strong FPS heritage. It takes a little while to learn the fundamental building blocks that form the API, but with that knowledge you can build anything you like. There's been a greater degree of separation between the base classes and 'Unreal Tournament' classes in recent months, so there's plenty of scope for variety.

4. You just need a little patience in researching the core principles of the engine. Understanding the relationships between the Controller and Pawn classes, the GameInfo class, components and Actor (equivalent of Unity's GameObject).

5. Everything is done in UnrealScript. There is a facility to bind to a C++ DLL, but it's limited and to be avoided if you want to run on anything other than a 32bit windows platform. There's an example of this in my signature.

6. Well... Epic have been doing networked multiplayer FPS for over a decade. I don't use it, but I believe it's pretty darn robust