KOTH/Annex Discussion

[NP473L]

I agree completely. You can still get into shotgun battles if you want, but taking a dominant spot and constantly harassing enemy movement with the Lancer is far easier and more successful.

I recall watching some scrim between the Epic team and some guys with a stupid MLG name some time near the release of Gears 3. It was on Trenches, and I remember how absolutely dull it was because of how much of the game was just trading rifle shots across the map. I don't even bother watching matches now because they're all about the same.

They are flipping entertaining to play in, but I doubt they're entertaining to watch. xD

[stunkcajyzarc]

What should change? What should stay the same?

IMO, the spawns should revert back to the 2 default spawns, the hills should only appear along the center of the map, and Epic should reinstate the old KOTH rule that said you could not spawn while you have control of the hill. Games would be more intense and goal oriented, but without a lot of the randomness of the current KOTH.

YES!!!. i agree. I miss the old koth bro.

[the_suicide_fox]

...You know, the rules apply to both sides. If you down someone from range on TDM rules, you can kill them moments later, but on execution rules they can crawl behind cover and get back up. That means that in order to kill them you need to go out and hunt them down, which is a bad idea if you're trying to defend a point. As an attacker, you're heading to the point anyway so downing them just makes the advance easier with either set of rules. And since the defenders are usually behind cover, you rarely have the chance to kill them outright before getting there anyway.

This isn't Halo; defending a point is supposed to be easier than attacking it, that's a major part of the reason you want to get there first.

Let's take a 2v1 example at the hill. You manage to rifle down the first guy, let's see where that leads:

TDM - You kill the guy you downed, turning it into a 1v1 at the hill. You have a much higher probability to at least break the hill.

Execution - You are forced to either go after your kill, and likely die in the process; go after the hill, and likely let the 1 dude up and you will probably die; or start to fight the other dude, probably not breaking/capping the hill and probably letting the first dude up again.

Your chances of even making it to the hill with execution rules are extremely low in this scenario, but you at least have an opportunity with TDM rules. You are more vulnerable as well, but in the long run TDM rules are more fair for attackers. Defenders should have an advantage, but with execution rules it is such a huge advantage. If you are outnumbered at the hill with execution rules you will NEVER get the hill. In TDM you at least have a chance because you can pick off the defenders from a distance.

Like I said before, kills are not an incentive to leave the hill. Defenders don't need to kill whereas attackers do. TDM rules are better.

[ll ALEX76 ll]

Execution rules and decent spawning system is what KOTH needs desperately.

[DaRkNeSs]

Don't merge KOTH and G2 Annex; that would ruin the gamemode in my opinion. Either have Annex and KOTH in the game or have an updated version of Annex:

-2 default spawns, I dislike the spawns we have now as you can occasionally be way too far away from the ring or have enemies constantly spawning behind or next to you which causes an issue especially with SP
-Keep the 'next ring' indicator, I find it pretty useful and think it's a nice addition
-Also keep the first ring location in the centre, it was always annoying in G2 when one team would get short spawn and then the next round they get it again...

[LoD FENIX]

They are flipping entertaining to play in, but I doubt they're entertaining to watch. xD

KoTH scrims are the most entertaining games to watch. Execution moves to slow and KoTH has constant action, they picked the best maps for it.

[NP473L]

KoTH scrims are the most entertaining games to watch. Execution moves to slow and KoTH has constant action, they picked the best maps for it.

Oh for sure ( z0mg Execution on Clocktower never ends! D: ) but it's not as enterprising as I can imagine it was in G1 or G2 Annex.

--> To be honest, I don't think there's huge viewing potential in Gears from an external perspective.

[Richtophen]

Gears 2 KOTH was perfect aside from offside hills and the ability for a team to uncapture the hill and let their team respawn. Put the hill always in the middle and then keep the Annex type hill capture and it would be the best version IMO.

TDM rules can stay too. Execution rules were kind of a pain.

don't think anything was wrong with the gears 2 KOTH. the team that leaves out to uncapture it has to sit outside of it until it goes all the way down. a couple of seconds. meanwhile, unless the attacking team was god awful, he attacks would still be coming. if they tried doing that most of the time, they'd lose the hill and die unless they just ran away and regrouped with the respawning teammates. hill never moved so fighting for a minute to get to it and having it move was not a problem and neither was execution rules since being forced to stay in the circle to be getting points (both for the team and for yourself) prevented most people from taking positions in hrd to reach areas.


Most games of it I played were also very fast paced, though that may have been partly due to only needing 120 points to win.

[RoboSeal1]

How about break the merge and give players what they want ANNEX OR KOTH from gears 2 but obvious improvements for both

[MxcnPro12]

I want Annex back <3

[Coleyman]

How about break the merge and give players what they want ANNEX OR KOTH from gears 2 but obvious improvements for both

This goes against the idea of trying to reduce the dispertion of the player population. Besides, GoW2 King and Annex were too similar to warrant even putting both in Gears 2. Making GoW3 King was the logical thing to do as it meant that there were fewer gametypes for the population to spread out over (thus, more people to find matches with in each playlist) whilst removing the semi-redundancy of having two King of the Hill gametypes.

[LordOfDeath]

problem with having only those two main spawns in koth/annex is that those are very easy spawntrap. Annex on river anyone? But GoW 3 KoTH spawn need some serious tweaking and fixing. Execution rules is almost MUST if rifles keeps same DMG what those have now.

[I woah I]

i liked having to stay in the hill to keep it.. would make competitive play better, and also having to execute your enemy that you downed from a far.

[LordOfDeath]

i liked having to stay in the hill to keep it.. would make competitive play better, and also having to execute your enemy that you downed from a far.

If you dont know, that is called excution rules.

[Joseph Ballin]

This goes against the idea of trying to reduce the dispertion of the player population. Besides, GoW2 King and Annex were too similar to warrant even putting both in Gears 2. Making GoW3 King was the logical thing to do as it meant that there were fewer gametypes for the population to spread out over (thus, more people to find matches with in each playlist) whilst removing the semi-redundancy of having two King of the Hill gametypes.

They were similar but they played out very differently, same as execution and warzone. Why not put them on the same playlist and put the gametype up for a vote, like Gears 2?

[the_suicide_fox]

problem with having only those two main spawns in koth/annex is that those are very easy spawntrap. Annex on river anyone? But GoW 3 KoTH spawn need some serious tweaking and fixing. Execution rules is almost MUST if rifles keeps same DMG what those have now.

Classic KOTh it was very hard to spawn trap because you don't respawn when you hold the hill, which was perfect IMO. There was no BS spawning behind people or next to the hill (at least when the hill was centralized) and there was no spawn trapping. IMO the only flaws were that you could leave the hill and let it break, allowing your team to spawn, and ex3ecution rules which I already pointed out gave a HUGE advantage to defenders. Make KOTh more like the classic verson, mayb have it move along the middle of the map, and it would be the perfect mode.

[RoboSeal1]

This goes against the idea of trying to reduce the dispertion of the player population. Besides, GoW2 King and Annex were too similar to warrant even putting both in Gears 2. Making GoW3 King was the logical thing to do as it meant that there were fewer gametypes for the population to spread out over (thus, more people to find matches with in each playlist) whilst removing the semi-redundancy of having two King of the Hill gametypes.

Then make it a true merger, koth u had to stay in the hill (gears2) in koth (gears3) its basically annex with wingman spawns and a hill that loses points over time

If it had fewer hills, execution rules and you had to stay in the hill but it moved like annex then it would be a true merger

[the_suicide_fox]

^IDK about staying in the hill. If the hill still moves it might become too difficult to get capture points. How would Raven Down play out? I think the Annex type of capture works pretty well.

[Meiyer]

Just make an Annex/KoTH Playlist.

Classic/Gears 3 annex and Gears 2 KoTH.

This, I believe the new KOTH should be renamed Annex and the original KOTH should be brought back, no caresies about GoW3, but let's see this for Judgment.

[LordOfDeath]

Classic KOTh it was very hard to spawn trap because you don't respawn when you hold the hill, which was perfect IMO. There was no BS spawning behind people or next to the hill (at least when the hill was centralized) and there was no spawn trapping. IMO the only flaws were that you could leave the hill and let it break, allowing your team to spawn, and ex3ecution rules which I already pointed out gave a HUGE advantage to defenders. Make KOTh more like the classic verson, mayb have it move along the middle of the map, and it would be the perfect mode.

No it wasnt. Yeah it was harder than annex,but still easy spawntrap. Execution rules gives advance to attackers too. I pointed out allready that Gears3 KoTH spawns needs some serious tweaking and fixing.

[RoboSeal1]

^IDK about staying in the hill. If the hill still moves it might become too difficult to get capture points. How would Raven Down play out? I think the Annex type of capture works pretty well.

It worked fine for gears 2 but your rigght if the rifles are OP with warzone rules it wouldnt work, i miss gears 2 sometimes

[BFW Wolf]

Just make an Annex/KoTH Playlist.

Classic/Gears 3 annex and Gears 2 KoTH.

just YES make gow2 koth execution rules and dont spawn unless ring is broke, make for interesting gameplay and different tactics

[Anatomy of Rain]

Remove 'Next' indicator.

COMPLETE remapping of spawn areas for each map.

Execution rules.

Fix the amount of time you need to be in the ring to break it, I think the Gears 2 instant ring break was better.

If a team spawns on top of a power weapon there needs to be a lock on picking up a weapon until a certain time elapse. I hate that a team can spawn on Boomshot and instantly pick it up and go to town.

[the_suicide_fox]

Fix the amount of time you need to be in the ring to break it, I think the Gears 2 instant ring break was better.

It is instant, but I think the ring size is actuallyer smaller than what you see. I have noticed you can touch the edge of the hill and it doesn't notice you. But either way, yes it should be fixed too.

[xTZAx]

Remove 'Next' indicator.

COMPLETE remapping of spawn areas for each map.

Execution rules.

Fix the amount of time you need to be in the ring to break it, I think the Gears 2 instant ring break was better.

If a team spawns on top of a power weapon there needs to be a lock on picking up a weapon until a certain time elapse. I hate that a team can spawn on Boomshot and instantly pick it up and go to town.

None of these suggestions are very practical.

The NEXT indicator is fantastic. No idea why you'd want it removed.

You don't know where the spawns are for the GOWJ maps so how can you make this comment?

Execution rules? Why? It alienates new players who don't understand what is happening, for a start, and also there is absolutely nothing wrong with TDM rules.

The ring break is instant, what are you talking about? You just need to be standing in the right spot. They need to fix that, but not what you're talking about.

Lock weapons? No. If you don't want the other team to spawn on the Boomshot all you need to do is either have a player standing on it or make sure you're picking it up when it's due to respawn. That's your responsibility.

[vabigc]

Execution rules is what I want in Judgement. Nothing worse than trying to pick up a downed teammate and u both get killed by a burst from across the map.

[the_suicide_fox]

Execution rules is what I want in Judgement. Nothing worse than trying to pick up a downed teammate and u both get killed by a burst from across the map.

IMO Execution rules should stay in Execution. It slowed the game down. Warzone rules worked just fine and the ONLY reason it was changed to Execution rules was because people would leave you to bleed out. The TDM rules we currently have are the best of both worlds.

[ll ALEX76 ll]

IMO Execution rules should stay in Execution. It slowed the game down. Warzone rules worked just fine and the ONLY reason it was changed to Execution rules was because people would leave you to bleed out. The TDM rules we currently have are the best of both worlds.

Can't see execution rules slowing game down tbh.
Execution matches are usually quicker than Warzone.

[the_suicide_fox]

Can't see execution rules slowing game down tbh.
Execution matches are usually quicker than Warzone.

I find Execution to be a lot more campy than Warzone. In Execution if you get control of Boomshot or sniper there is little reason to get close to the enemy, and actually doing so negates the advantages it gives. In Warzone, you can sit back and rifle but you are just as vulnerable to being killed as the guy playing in CQC wth a shotgun. As for Annex/KOTH, it slows the game because it makes it easier to defend the hill. If I'm forced to get close to finish you I'm not focusing on the hill, and it takes longer to push and claim the hill, therefore slowing down the game. Imagine trying to push the hill inside Hotel with Execution rules. The team in control would be near impossible to kill, and it comes down to who has more players at the hill. Not to mention Boomshot and the like would be even more powerful. I think most teams would just wait for next then try to break that hill. Again the only reason it was changed to Execution rules in Gears 2 was because people would leave you to bleed out. If Epic could have used TDM rules they would have I'm sure of it.

[Richtophen]

I find Execution to be a lot more campy than Warzone. In Execution if you get control of Boomshot or sniper there is little reason to get close to the enemy, and actually doing so negates the advantages it gives. In Warzone, you can sit back and rifle but you are just as vulnerable to being killed as the guy playing in CQC wth a shotgun. As for Annex/KOTH, it slows the game because it makes it easier to defend the hill. If I'm forced to get close to finish you I'm not focusing on the hill, and it takes longer to push and claim the hill, therefore slowing down the game. Imagine trying to push the hill inside Hotel with Execution rules. The team in control would be near impossible to kill, and it comes down to who has more players at the hill. Not to mention Boomshot and the like would be even more powerful. I think most teams would just wait for next then try to break that hill. Again the only reason it was changed to Execution rules in Gears 2 was because people would leave you to bleed out. If Epic could have used TDM rules they would have I'm sure of it.

But it's because you can actually grab the power weapons without being killed in half a second across the map that makes it so much quicker. and who the hell stays away from the enemies when they have a boomshot? that thing sucks long range half of the time. hotel had crap design and pushing was hard only because of the OP rifle, retro, and sawed off trinity. Most decent execution matches are far quicket than warzone ones because people want to get in close with the gnashers because they dont like downing people across the map to have someone else get the kills.

KOTH in gears 2 worked perfectly.

[the_suicide_fox]

But it's because you can actually grab the power weapons without being killed in half a second across the map that makes it so much quicker. and who the hell stays away from the enemies when they have a boomshot? that thing sucks long range half of the time. hotel had crap design and pushing was hard only because of the OP rifle, retro, and sawed off trinity. Most decent execution matches are far quicket than warzone ones because people want to get in close with the gnashers because they dont like downing people across the map to have someone else get the kills.

KOTH in gears 2 worked perfectly.

I'm not about to get into a Warzone vs Execution debate, but I played both plenty since the first game and Execution games take longer from my experience. In Warzone, people usually die immediately after being downed. The pace of Execution is faster in the beginning but once teams establish weapon/map control things can start to slow down greatly. Warzone is slower to start off, but the pace of the match is much more consistent throughout. When people say Warzone has a lot of camping they obviously don't play a lot of Warzone. You can't camp in Warzone like you can Execution, because you are just as vulnerable as the people who are rushing. As far as grabbing power weapons, in Execution it's mostly a numbers game. Send 3 to Boomshot while the other sends 2 and you will almost always win. In Warzone it's a position and timing game, and 2 well positioned players can beat 3 poorly positioned ones. You can't just run in and grab the weapon, you NEED to set up a diversion or flank or provide proper cover/support. If all 5 players go to the same weapon in Execution it is impossible to stop them unless your whole team goes as well.

And people do camp with power weapons in Execution if they feel they don't have enough to run through the other team. You have a lot to lose by getting close, and it is entirely unnecessary with Boomshot or other pickups. Sure it's not good long range, but if you grab it and cover a narrow passage NO ONE will get you. In Warzone it is still possible to take this player out without making the unnecessary risk to move in. Pushing the middle hill on Hotel is feasible with Warzone/TDM rules, but near impossible with Execution rules unless you have the numbers advantage.

I just find TDM to be the best for KOTH. You can't leave people to bleed out as they will get up, and attackers can pick off defenders without unnecessary risks. Power weapons become less of a factor (though still very important) and the focus is on the hill more than getting kills.

Here is another example; Thrashball first hill - With TDM rules if someone sits at the heavy weapon and Lancer's they are still vulnerable to being killed, and it is possible to take control away from key spots such as top entrance to spawns or the little stairs next to heavy. With Execution rules you MUST go up there and finish the guy off (who will have revived by the time you got there), making it exponentially more difficult to take control away from that player. This also draws your attention far too much and the objective becomes a secondary point.

If you'd like to debate Warzone vs Execution with me then go here -
Warzone/Executon/TDM/Wingman Discussion