Matchmaking : Playlists : (Excruciatingly slow) Discussion

[NP473L]

Okay folks. My last exam was this morning, so I finally got around to adding solution 3 (although the write up could do with some work) - and I rejigged the colours a little bit just to make it less like an unappealing wall.

Please keep it civil; I'd like to see a decent and mature discussion.

[NP473L]

Bumping the thread topic.

[not presc1ence]

My two cents...

The reason I don't bother with ranked is because :
a) The lobbies are not persistent
b)so i have to search for games all the time
c)so i have to spend far to long watching menus.
d)making the whole experience so slow.
d)stacked teams, i mean it gets pretty bad on QM with stacked teams sometimes but ranked is just stacked teams.

To make me and other people from QM WANT to play it for a start it needs to be so much faster, and much smoother experience.
Once your in a lobby it should be using something closer to QM style and piling into other games, maybe brief (read 30 sec to one min) pauses if other players need adding. Or at least add drop in/out play.

It also needs to obliterate parties, not in the sense that you can't party up with your mates and chat or jump into games/play in games together. But in the sense that the party should in no way effect what team you are on, eliminating stacking. Team balancing needs to be able to over-ride a parties 'team'. Awesomely now you could take parties of ten and the game would be able to deal with it. Although to give players the opportunity to work on teams together the would probably need to add the old team switching from G1.

While combining the play lists COULD work as OP suggesst I really think that making the ranked experience better would be the best option.

[NP473L]

My two cents...

The reason I don't bother with ranked is because :
a) The lobbies are not persistent
b)so i have to search for games all the time
c)so i have to spend far to long watching menus.
d)making the whole experience so slow.
d)stacked teams, i mean it gets pretty bad on QM with stacked teams sometimes but ranked is just stacked teams.

To make me and other people from QM WANT to play it for a start it needs to be so much faster, and much smoother experience.
Once your in a lobby it should be using something closer to QM style and piling into other games, maybe brief (read 30 sec to one min) pauses if other players need adding. Or at least add drop in/out play.

It also needs to obliterate parties, not in the sense that you can't party up with your mates and chat or jump into games/play in games together. But in the sense that the party should in no way effect what team you are on, eliminating stacking. Team balancing needs to be able to over-ride a parties 'team'. Awesomely now you could take parties of ten and the game would be able to deal with it. Although to give players the opportunity to work on teams together the would probably need to add the old team switching from G1.

While combining the play lists COULD work as OP suggesst I really think that making the ranked experience better would be the best option.

Totally makes sense.

However, I will disagree about the 'persistent' lobbies thing. It's much more competitive if you're not in the same lobby each time, because else the same team will consistently win (assuming parties are still as common as they are now). That wouldn't lead well.

Matchmaking where you are matched up with new players is fine, as long as the system is desirable and populated enough to work.

[NP473L]

Bumping again.

[MIST GHILLIE]

@NP473L


I was wondering if I could get your updated opinions on my system.

Which is 2 seperate rank systems
A trueskill rank system for ranked
A persistent rank system for quick

Where both progressions have their own achievents etc.

I hardly ever played halo didnt like it, but I really liked the party up system.

[l TormentZ]

This thread is actually REALLY good. I personally would want QM taking out altogether and improving ranked. and the Halo 3 suggestion is brilliant and having played halo for a while I think it would be a HUGE improvement to gears matchmaking, If you don't want to play a "sweaty stack" then you let the countdown carry on and you'll be moved to a new lobby (it's hard to explain) but yeah great thread Nikhil.

[NP473L]

@NP473L


I was wondering if I could get your updated opinions on my system.

Which is 2 seperate rank systems
A trueskill rank system for ranked
A persistent rank system for quick

Where both progressions have their own achievents etc.

I hardly ever played halo didnt like it, but I really liked the party up system.

Well, I personally haven't changed my stance on it, especially in having a visible TrueSkill. I've never liked that.

I think it's a novel idea to have separate progressive ranks, but would be frowned upon by the majority, leading to more of the arguments we have now. It makes sense in my mind, but likely not others.

I will say this though. Having achievements relating to one or the other is something I definitely wouldn't be against. It's just a way of expanding people's horizons and making them try new things if they want to fully 'achieve' in the game. If they don't, nobody will force them to earn the cheevo. I probably wouldn't end up with many of the 'Ranked' achievements myself, so I'm not saying it with any sort of bias here.

A whole separate rank though....I'm not sure many will see that.

This thread is actually REALLY good. I personally would want QM taking out altogether and improving ranked. and the Halo 3 suggestion is brilliant and having played halo for a while I think it would be a HUGE improvement to gears matchmaking, If you don't want to play a "sweaty stack" then you let the countdown carry on and you'll be moved to a new lobby (it's hard to explain) but yeah great thread Nikhil.

Yeah, no doubt actually. If Ranked were the only option (which it's extremely unlikely to be), it would probably need tweaking to make it feasible.

Thanks for the support big man.

[RoboSeal1]

Agree with NFI statement, ranked in gears 2 was nowhere elite as it is in 3 but i dont wish for quick match being scrapped

[FullDiamond]

Keep quick match, scrapping it would be a terrible idea. I don't want to have to search for a new match every time. I just want a nice fast, fun, experience, which ranked doesn't provide for me.

I don't care for the competition aspect, I just want to play the game.

[NP473L]

Agree with NFI statement, ranked in gears 2 was nowhere elite as it is in 3 but i dont wish for quick match being scrapped

Which NFI statement was that?

Keep quick match, scrapping it would be a terrible idea. I don't want to have to search for a new match every time. I just want a nice fast, fun, experience, which ranked doesn't provide for me.

I don't care for the competition aspect, I just want to play the game.

Did you read past the Quote/Solution 1?

By the way people, please do not comment bemoaning that I want Ranked only. That opinion of mine up in that quote is an initial interpretation of what I feel happened to Gears 3 matchmaking. The solutions I am proposing are impartial and have nothing to do with any Ranked or Quick argument. However, I feel something is in need of change, and the solutions are there to try and see what we can come up with. They are not 'Ranked-only' regimes.

If you want to look at personal situations, I could easily say that I would like fun, competitive matches, which Gears 3 does not provide for me. However, the purpose is to take both sides to find a solution. I highly doubt Solution 1 would be considered (even though I'd like to see it happen) so really, it's 2 or 3.

Removing Quick was never really a viable option considering its 'success'.

[FullDiamond]

Did you read past the Quote/Solution 1?

Yes, and I honestly don't really like those solutions, as they seem to focus on changing quickmatch to the point of where it isn't very quick or scrapping it all together.

[NFI]

Still moving along nicely I see NP.

[NP473L]

Yes, and I honestly don't really like those solutions, as they seem to focus on changing quickmatch to the point of where it isn't very quick or scrapping it all together.

The final one leaves Quick Match unchanged, and the second one is more like Quick Match than Ranked Match.

Of course I'm not asking you to agree with anything or everything, only to get a reasoned (and not considered) opinion. Fair enough though; like I said, I'm not asking anybody to agree with what I have to say in here, only to try and improve what we have.

I would like to stress that I'm being impartial and objective when considering solutions too. I'm not interested in Quick vs Ranked in here...that's almost a side-issue.

Still moving along nicely I see NP.

Kinda. It's been a little slow, but I'm trying to add bits and bobs to the OP to consider a rounder approach.

...that and adding extra colours.

[NFI]

The final one leaves Quick Match unchanged, and the second one is more like Quick Match than Ranked Match.

Of course I'm not asking you to agree with anything or everything, only to get a reasoned (and not considered) opinion. Fair enough though; like I said, I'm not asking anybody to agree with what I have to say in here, only to try and improve what we have.

I would like to stress that I'm being impartial and objective when considering solutions too. I'm not interested in Quick vs Ranked in here...that's almost a side-issue.



Kinda. It's been a little slow, but I'm trying to add bits and bobs to the OP to consider a rounder approach.

...that and adding extra colours.

Seems like everyone's playing nice

[NP473L]

Seems like everyone's playing nice

I hope that continues, although like I said, discussion's been too slow to really cause a fuss.

[MIST GHILLIE]

Well, I personally haven't changed my stance on it, especially in having a visible TrueSkill. I've never liked that.

I think it's a novel idea to have separate progressive ranks, but would be frowned upon by the majority, leading to more of the arguments we have now. It makes sense in my mind, but likely not others.

I will say this though. Having achievements relating to one or the other is something I definitely wouldn't be against. It's just a way of expanding people's horizons and making them try new things if they want to fully 'achieve' in the game. If they don't, nobody will force them to earn the cheevo. I probably wouldn't end up with many of the 'Ranked' achievements myself, so I'm not saying it with any sort of bias here.

A whole separate rank though....I'm not sure many will see that.

Thanks for responding, my stance hasent changed much either so I think were still at the same agree to disagree place.
I brought it up as I think its a scheme which is worth considderation in threads like this and to get some more feedback.


For other peoples reference my original posts are on pages 3 and 4 of the thread which is linked in the op.

[NP473L]

Thanks for responding, my stance hasent changed much either so I think were still at the same agree to disagree place.
I brought it up as I think its a scheme which is worth considderation in threads like this and to get some more feedback.


For other peoples reference my original posts are on pages 3 and 4 of the thread which is linked in the op.

I can add some of the 'highlights' to the second post in here too.

I shall do that tomorrow (when I'm on my PC)

[Mr Biron]

I think number 2 is probably the best idea.
There really shouldn't be 2 different options for public matches. It should just be public/private.
Although I hope they do way with TDM. Or at least design maps for it. At the moment it seems most maps are designed with Horde in mind.Which means there's always one spot to camp out. So TDM just ends up as a rush to get up to this spot.
I totally agree with scaling back the game modes. So Execution,Warzone,Guardian,Wingman,KOTH and TDM if we have to have it. And an event like Stay Frosty.

[NP473L]

I think number 2 is probably the best idea.
There really shouldn't be 2 different options for public matches. It should just be public/private.
Although I hope they do way with TDM. Or at least design maps for it. At the moment it seems most maps are designed with Horde in mind.Which means there's always one spot to camp out. So TDM just ends up as a rush to get up to this spot.
I totally agree with scaling back the game modes. So Execution,Warzone,Guardian,Wingman,KOTH and TDM if we have to have it. And an event like Stay Frosty.

Yeah, fair ideas there.

I'm definitely on your side with the gamemodes. In an ideal world, TDM would drop, but The fact that it's numbers far outweigh the others almost guarantee its return, so we're fighting a losing battle there.

Playlist solutions...I'm almost lost on this myself. I started to want 1, then 2, and now I don't really think there'll be major changes, so 3 is the most likely out of the current propositions (in the sense that Quick will remain, and Ranked will change slightly). I don't know. For me, 2 is the better compromise as an overall package, but it isn't without it's problems, so who knows?

Thanks for sharing your input. Much appreciated .

[LoD FENIX]

Hey this thread is still alive.

Any new ideas on the matter NP?

[NP473L]

Hey this thread is still alive.

Any new ideas on the matter NP?

Alive? Naaah. Discussion died long ago.

New ideas...not really actually. I haven't really spent much time thinking about it. I will try to do so, but I'm coming up blank at the moment.

[LoD FENIX]

Alive? Naaah. Discussion died long ago.

New ideas...not really actually. I haven't really spent much time thinking about it. I will try to do so, but I'm coming up blank at the moment.

Well that's cause the Judgment section is a little slow.

Also people putting up new idea threads every day pushes down older threads.

Most people would rather playlists stay the same. I'm fine with that as long as we don't get 16 game types again.

[NP473L]

Well that's cause the Judgment section is a little slow.

Also people putting up new idea threads every day pushes down older threads.

Most people would rather playlists stay the same. I'm fine with that as long as we don't get 16 game types again.

Nah, I'm not complaining. Like I said, as long as it's clean and still running, it's not important. Although I will push it when we have new ideas to sell.

--Playlists 'staying the same' is okay for as long as they improve each playlist. Ignoring the balancing and gameplay itself, the playlist structure is currently a turn off for me. Neither playlist offers what I look for in the game, which is a bit of a pain.

I still like Sol 3 (and Sol 2) though, although I guess that's just a playlist enhancement as I'm saying. Quick match needs changing for me...it just seems too intermittent, but I know I'm a small crowd pushing that point.

[123MAN]

What's new on the agenda?

[LoD FENIX]

Nah, I'm not complaining. Like I said, as long as it's clean and still running, it's not important. Although I will push it when we have new ideas to sell.

--Playlists 'staying the same' is okay for as long as they improve each playlist. Ignoring the balancing and gameplay itself, the playlist structure is currently a turn off for me. Neither playlist offers what I look for in the game, which is a bit of a pain.

I still like Sol 3 (and Sol 2) though, although I guess that's just a playlist enhancement as I'm saying. Quick match needs changing for me...it just seems too intermittent, but I know I'm a small crowd pushing that point.

Maybe all that's needed is a playlist enhancement. Not a complete overhaul.

[NP473L]

What's new on the agenda?

I put colours in the OP, not a lot else.

Maybe all that's needed is a playlist enhancement. Not a complete overhaul.

I'd like to see it work, then I'd happily eat my words.

However, Gears of War 3 players have pretty much already chosen and stereotyped the playlists based on their experience. Chances are that even with improvements, a number of the passive community would never even notice that improvements and enhancements were made, and nothing would change on the side of numbers.

Now, I'm increasingly sounding like I want to 'GET MOAR IN RANKED!', which is true, but the point is that enhancements, while beneficial, would not really change the situation, only mask it somewhat. The divide would still be there, and the hesitancy to 'try the other playlist' would remain, as people find new stereotypes to compliment the old.

[LoD FENIX]

I'd like to see it work, then I'd happily eat my words.

However, Gears of War 3 players have pretty much already chosen and stereotyped the playlists based on their experience. Chances are that even with improvements, a number of the passive community would never even notice that improvements and enhancements were made, and nothing would change on the side of numbers.

Now, I'm increasingly sounding like I want to 'GET MOAR IN RANKED!', which is true, but the point is that enhancements, while beneficial, would not really change the situation, only mask it somewhat. The divide would still be there, and the hesitancy to 'try the other playlist' would remain, as people find new stereotypes to compliment the old.

I see what you mean. I'd like more encouragement for people to play Ranked but it's a losing battle.

I really do hate this stereotype that Ranked is only full of sweaty try hards and QM has none. Both have their fair share of sweaty players.

[123MAN]

I see what you mean. I'd like more encouragement for people to play Ranked but it's a losing battle.

I really do hate this stereotype that Ranked is only full of sweaty try hards and QM has none. Both have their fair share of sweaty players.

Lol, I wonder if NP34HJD contributes to this.

[NP473L]

I see what you mean. I'd like more encouragement for people to play Ranked but it's a losing battle.

I really do hate this stereotype that Ranked is only full of sweaty try hards and QM has none. Both have their fair share of sweaty players.

Yeah, true to both of those.

...and that's why I don't think anything other than a fairly big change would work. The stereotype would just carry over.

Lol, I wonder if NP34HJD contributes to this.

Wait....I'm a sweaty tryhard?

[123MAN]

Yeah, true to both of those.

...and that's why I don't think anything other than a fairly big change would work. The stereotype would just carry over.

Wait....I'm a sweaty tryhard?

Yes you are. What, with that modded Hammerburst and everything.

[NP473L]

Yes you are. What, with that modded Hammerburst and everything.

I know you're joking, but here is my awesome 'modded' controller.

Look at those highly maintained analog sticks. Beautiful. Want any more angles?



Anyway, that's besides the point. You're just backing up the fact that people insta-see the stereotype, when that really shouldn't be the case.

[123MAN]

You have scrawny hands.

[NP473L]

You have scrawny hands.

Jeez, tell me about it. Currently weighing in at 47kg (as in all of me...not just my hands)...

/derailment of my own thread

[123MAN]

Jeez, tell me about it. Currently weighing in at 47kg (as in all of me...not just my hands)...

/derailment of my own thread

Really? I weigh 104kg. Lololol.

[LoD FENIX]

Dude did you eat your analog sticks?

Grab some food outside bro.

Get a new controller lol.


Ok I'm done derailing this one >.>

[Karried]

Gears 3 is played solo by more than 80% of the population. There needs to be a better MM system and proper balance to accommodate the lone wolf.

One thing G1/2 that was viable is the clutch factor, it wasn't stupid easy to clutch against a group of players communicating but it wasn't as near impossible in G3 against a semi compotent team due to the super effectiveness of the weapons in harmony.

[>I Am Legend<]

I agree with what you said, i hate QM, it has so many noobs and is just like playing private on casual LOL. So i think this idea is great.

[the_suicide_fox]

Gears 3 is played solo by more than 80% of the population.

I think this has less to do with anything Gears related and more to do with the fact that 99.9% of people on XBL are assholes.

[I Love U Jesus]

I'm not sure what to say about this topic that hasn't already been said, but I won't be satisfied with the Gears 3 system copy-pasted into Judgement. Both Quick Match and Ranked are unsatisfactory experiences.