Ranking System

[@Strife]

I have been recently playing alot of PC games such as SC2 and LoL and I noticed that the ranking systems in that game are really good. Both of these games match players against other players with similar skill and that makes the game really enjoyable and brings some really good matches. SC2 is a VERY hard game and their ranking system allows me to play with the "noobs" without getting my ass handed to me. I think GOW:J should implement its own ranking system such as SC2's League system (Bronze,Silver,Gold,Plat,Diamond,Master,GrandMaste r) or something similar. I consider myself very good at GOW3 and I am still being matched up with people who are far below my skill level. I think SC2's ranking system, or something similar would work well! what do you guys think?

[Locust BarmyArmy]

I have been recently playing alot of PC games such as SC2 and LoL and I noticed that the ranking systems in that game are really good. Both of these games match players against other players with similar skill and that makes the game really enjoyable and brings some really good matches. SC2 is a VERY hard game and their ranking system allows me to play with the "noobs" without getting my ass handed to me. I think GOW:J should implement its own ranking system such as SC2's League system (Bronze,Silver,Gold,Plat,Diamond,Master,GrandMaste r) or something similar. I consider myself very good at GOW3 and I am still being matched up with people who are far below my skill level. I think SC2's ranking system, or something similar would work well! what do you guys think?

It wouldn't work in Gears, because we play in teams (I know you can do team games in SC, but the majority is 1v1 and that is what the game is focused on)

Would you just promote people based on wins, because they may have done basically nothing to contribute to the win. It works in Starcraft, but not here. I'm also a big Starcraft fan by the way, just started out playing myself, so I'm probably in a similar position to you

[Riot_Phenom]

i like both of halos ranking systems. with the 1-50 and then the elo rating with different divisions and you could easily make it work for gears.

[TAO Devil]

Make it like the beginning of Gow2 with trueskill ranks with more ranks though. Dedicated servers will fix pretty much all the problems with the gears2 version. Except people might make a new accounts to rank up faster but who cares its ranked anyways.

1) We still have trueskill. It's just hidden.
2) The ranks actually were based on a 1-50 scale, not 1-5
3) They are required to use Microsoft's Trueskill system. As are all 360 games.

[GearsPro23]

Rank most of the time doesnt mean anything All ppl do anymore is idle boost and get their levels off that.The trueskill system wasnt that good anyway

[Riot_Phenom]

1) We still have trueskill. It's just hidden.

it should be visible and connection takes precedence over the trueskill. so your almost never matched with people of equal skill
and it doesn't matter but it gives you another thing to play for. a lot of people like that.

[TAO Devil]

it should be visible and connection takes precedence over the trueskill. so your almost never matched with people of equal skill
and it doesn't matter but it gives you another thing to play for. a lot of people like that.

Incorrect. Ranked, Trueskill takes priority. Quickmatch, Connection takes priority.

And almost all games use hidden trueskill. Trueskill being visible promotes cheating. Halo 3, Gears 2, etc. All of these games had it. Now all these games have hidden trueskill.

[NFI]

Incorrect. Ranked, Trueskill takes priority. Quickmatch, Connection takes priority.

And almost all games use hidden trueskill. Trueskill being visible promotes cheating. Halo 3, Gears 2, etc. All of these games had it. Now all these games have hidden trueskill.

This. No developer can implement any ranked system of their own. The live infrastructure is designed to patch and override every attempt to do so. Microsoft placed a lot of money into to research to create a singular ranking system across all live enabled games to promote consistency. Connection does not override true skill in any fashion. Your true skill ranked is mainly influenced by wins and losses, stats while minutely factored, are largely insignificant, and it's incapable of identifying individual members of a party. Instead providing an average, single true skill value.

Every game uses this same system. It's required.

I have been recently playing alot of PC games such as SC2 and LoL and I noticed that the ranking systems in that game are really good. Both of these games match players against other players with similar skill and that makes the game really enjoyable and brings some really good matches. SC2 is a VERY hard game and their ranking system allows me to play with the "noobs" without getting my ass handed to me. I think GOW:J should implement its own ranking system such as SC2's League system (Bronze,Silver,Gold,Plat,Diamond,Master,GrandMaste r) or something similar. I consider myself very good at GOW3 and I am still being matched up with people who are far below my skill level. I think SC2's ranking system, or something similar would work well! what do you guys think?

True skill only cares really about wins and losses. If your KD is 10.0 and your record is 25-15 and my KD is 4.0 and my record is 35-5 my true skill value will be superior to yours.

i like both of halos ranking systems. with the 1-50 and then the elo rating with different divisions and you could easily make it work for gears.

It already uses this system. It's hidden. Halo simply provided a true skill value for each separate playlist. It's the same otherwise.

Make it like the beginning of Gow2 with trueskill ranks with more ranks though. Dedicated servers will fix pretty much all the problems with the gears2 version. Except people might make a new accounts to rank up faster but who cares its ranked anyways.

It's the same thing as Gears 2.

[Riot_Phenom]

do neither of you play online?
almost every game is a full party against all solo players. and almost always the stacked teams have far superior stats all around including w/l. and the ones that don't have full teams usually put all of the better people besides one on the same team. so there is a disconnect somewhere in what is supposed to happen and what actually happens. its broken

[NFI]

do neither of you play online?
almost every game is a full party against all solo players. and almost always the stacked teams have far superior stats all around including w/l. and the ones that don't have full teams usually put all of the better people besides one on the same team. so there is a disconnect somewhere in what is supposed to happen and what actually happens. its broken

Did you read my post? Are you familiar with true skill in any fashion? This isn't something up for debate, stats are practically meaningless in the ELO/True skill algorithim. It's about wins and losses and games played, then you factor in the system assigning a single value to parties, inherent player segregation due to servers and an even smaller ranked population that it's harder to find close matches so it has to constantly widen parameters. No one said true skill is flawless, but it's there, just like every other game on xbox live, and it's entirely microsofts call.

Epc can't modify or adjust it in any fashion. It's microsofts formula.

[shen Gaoren AJ]

It seems like a good idea?

[Riot_Phenom]

Did you read my post? Are you familiar with true skill in any fashion? This isn't something up for debate, stats are practically meaningless in the ELO/True skill algorithim. It's about wins and losses and games played, then you factor in the system assigning a single value to parties, inherent player segregation due to servers and an even smaller ranked population that it's harder to find close matches so it has to constantly widen parameters. No one said true skill is flawless, but it's there, just like every other game on xbox live, and it's entirely microsofts call.

Epc can't modify or adjust it in any fashion. It's microsofts formula.

did you read my post. i clearly stated that it included w/l and it does it with every game type. including the populated ones. i understand that it has to widen it, but it almost never works on this game. oh and w/l stands for wins and losses since you don't know that. like i said before its broken

[NFI]

did you read my post. i clearly stated that it included w/l and it does it with every game type. including the populated ones. i understand that it has to widen it, but it almost never works on this game. oh and w/l stands for wins and losses since you don't know that. like i said before its broken

I don't know that? You clearly didnt read my post, you said this..

almost every game is a full party against all solo players. and almost always the stacked teams have far superior stats all around including w/l.

After I said this..

Your true skill ranked is mainly influenced by wins and losses, stats are largely insignificant, and it's incapable of identifying individual members of a party. Instead providing an average, single true skill value.

Parties vs solo players is irrelevant to its process. I explicitly stated parties are read as 1 average single ts value and one person as the formula can't identify individual members or numbers, and stats are hardly a factor. Those things simoply don't matter in the big picture. If you know that, why state it?

It's not broken, that statement makes absolutely zero sense. It works as intended within the parameters of what's available as far as players go.even if it stinks. You simply have a complete and total lack of understanding on how it works. Gears has 1 true skill value across ALL mides, meaning if you fet killed in KOTH your tdm matchmaking experience will be altered, only halo 3 had playlist specific ts rankings.

It can only pull players from those available. It's not the formula that's the issue relative to its intended function, it's the amount of available players. It works as its designed, for better or worse.

[ClockWorKtheJerK]

do neither of you play online?
almost every game is a full party against all solo players. and almost always the stacked teams have far superior stats all around including w/l. and the ones that don't have full teams usually put all of the better people besides one on the same team. so there is a disconnect somewhere in what is supposed to happen and what actually happens. its broken

this this this. I find ALOT of matches where the teams are completely unfair. ill be matched up with 4 random green ranks and face a full party of red and blue ranks. I think the system is a little broke but its not to bad.

[NFI]

this this this. I find ALOT of matches where the teams are completely unfair. ill be matched up with 4 random green ranks and face a full party of red and blue ranks. I think the system is a little broke but its not to bad.

Red, blue, green ranks don't make any difference. XP levels play no part in the ranked process what so ever.

[ClockWorKtheJerK]

Red, blue, green ranks don't make any difference. XP levels play no part in the ranked process what so ever.

oh just learned that. Well thats why the systems flawed and needs to be fixed.

[ClockWorKtheJerK]

Red, blue, green ranks don't make any difference. XP levels play no part in the ranked process what so ever.

oh just learned that. Well thats why the systems flawed and needs to be fixed.

[Riot_Phenom]

please read what you quoted from me again.

and almost always the stacked teams have far superior stats all around including w/l. and the ones that don't have full teams usually put all of the better people besides one on the same team. so there is a disconnect somewhere in what is supposed to happen and what actually happens. its broken

that means that even averaged out the W/L and all other stats are still far superior. and if it doesnt work then by definition it is broken. it does not work for gears.
im done arguing with you. thanks for the info that i did not know, which is the standard true skill throughout xbl. it still should be tweaked to better accommodate games like gears

Possibly making it like Halo 3s with the game type specific ratings.
and i wish they would make it visible. people will always cheat no matter what

[NFI]

oh just learned that. Well thats why the systems flawed and needs to be fixed.

No it's not. Xp has nothing to do with how good you are, in any way. The problems lie in the inherent shortcomings of the ELO/Glicko formula.

[NFI]

please read what you quoted from me again.
that means that even averaged out the W/L and all other stats are still far superior. and if it doesnt work then by definition it is broken. it does not work for gears.
im done arguing with you. thanks for the info that i did not know, which is the standard true skill throughout xbl. it still should be tweaked to better accommodate games like gears

No it does work. It's not broken, it does what it's designed to do. Whether ppl like it is another matter. You are crediting game related shortcomings with the formula itself. Lack of ranked players is why you see the discrepancies. Not the formula itself.

It functions EXACTLY how it does in Halo, Gears 2, and every other game, so if it's not broken there it's not here. They simply have more ranked players to pick from, meaning larger sample size, meaning more accurate results.


the formulas issues are beyond this which is why Microsoft constantly is researching it.

[Terra D Serph]

Red, blue, green ranks don't make any difference. XP levels play no part in the ranked process what so ever.

Yup, I've both destroyed blue ranks and been completely outplayed by white ranks. Whenever my "friend" comes over, he always points out that the other team has a blue rank, or in the case of Halo, that someone's an Eclipse, and I have to point out that level means nothing, especially at this stage of the game. Rank only shows how much you play. How much you play only shows how much potential skill you might have.

[upsmadman]

Just for the record in reality xp does count for something. Experience lol. Having been in this experience over and over. Typically speaking a more experienced player is better equipped to handle a situation that is thrown at him. Usually a person with more experience will outplay someone with far less experience. Now I know there are exceptions like billy was born a bad a## idle boosting and those kids who never seem to learn lol. But at least 80% of the time the more experienced player comes out on top. So until this is factored into the equation somehow the equation itself is broke.

[NFI]

Just for the record in reality xp does count for something. Experience lol. Having been in this experience over and over. Typically speaking a more experienced player is better equipped to handle a situation that is thrown at him. Usually a person with more experience will outplay someone with far less experience. Now I know there are exceptions like billy was born a bad a## idle boosting and those kids who never seem to learn lol. But at least 80% of the time the more experienced player comes out on top. So until this is factored into the equation somehow the equation itself is broke.

No it doesn't need factored in, in any fashion. Putting it in will decrease the accuracy of any formula in fact, breaking it in and of itself. It counts for nothing and is too much of a variable wild card to be accurate. Ppl who level up in horde or beast, double xp, pay a lot but arent very good, or campaign may attain a high level. It's too ambiguous and inconsistent to include in the process to give accurate results. Xp means nothing. You can't provide an 80 percent figure because you have nothing to support that.

The goal is to provide an accurate representation of skill, meaning you want to remove highly variable or ambiguous factors, including xp will muck the system up. It's too much of a wild card.

[TAO Devil]

Wow. I cant believe people are arguing with us on this AGAIN.

Look guys, both NFI and myself are always right on his matter. We are both well educated in Microsoft policy and the techincal aspect of trueskill.

[Jim Tuna]

Wow. I cant believe people are arguing with us on this AGAIN.

Look guys, both NFI and myself are always right on his matter. We are both well educated in Microsoft policy and the techincal aspect of trueskill.

All hail TAO and NFI

[PhillyEagleDude]

I just want something like Reach's Arena system.

[LoD FENIX]

Wow. I cant believe people are arguing with us on this AGAIN.

Look guys, both NFI and myself are always right on his matter. We are both well educated in Microsoft policy and the techincal aspect of trueskill.

TAO has spoken. All should listen.

[NFI]

I just want something like Reach's Arena system.

Still uses true skill. Microsoft/bungie simply layers a point based algorithm on top of it for players to see