Concerning Pick-up Pistols

[llMurall]

I've never considered the pick-up pistols to be power weapons. Even the boltok, which is awesome when you get the right opportunity to use it, has barely any influence as a "power" weapon. I'm pretty sure that in 90% of games the pistols go completely untouched. Am I the only one that thinks that those pick-up spots where pistols are could be better used for a weapon with a bit more influence over a match? Imagine if every pistol pick-up was swapped with a sniper. Wouldn't that simple change enhance the strategic importance of every pistol spot in every match? Just in general, I feel that having the gorgon and boltok as pickups is a waste of potential resources for a match. I think that all of the pistols should be selectable prior to the match, just like the shotties and the ARs, that way picukp spots could be used for more influential weapons and the pistols would get more use at the same time.

In my mind, the boltok is the only issue with this idea because if people could spawn with a boltok heads would fly everywhere, but I think that could be solved with some simple damage tweaking. I'm not suggesting this for Gears 3, I'm just speculating over the gears multiplayer experience in general. Any thoughts?

[Gnashes]

No.

Boltok is an AMAZING support weapon. You just have to work with teammates to make it truly effective.

Gorgon could use a small buff in my opinion, but it works well enough in CQC.

Both teams get one. Placing anything larger there would render the whole "Fight for the power weapon and map control" idea pointless.

[DizzyRules]

I'd like the option to be able to select a boltok or gorgon from the start, but having a pistol location swapped with any other weapon seems like it would be too much for the map. If this happened with say sniper then there could be 3 snipers on the map. It would be too much and would completely unbalance the gameplay.

[DizzyRules]

Agreed Gnashes. The gorgon could be better used with double the clip size.

[Gnashes]

Agreed Gnashes. The gorgon could be better used with double the clip size.

Or even a damage buff. It's really only useful now if you get an active and are really, REALLY close to someone lol

[llMurall]

No.

Boltok is an AMAZING support weapon. You just have to work with teammates to make it truly effective.

Gorgon could use a small buff in my opinion, but it works well enough in CQC.

Both teams get one. Placing anything larger there would render the whole "Fight for the power weapon and map control" idea pointless.

The boltok's only good in the hands of a good player, but as a team weapon, there's only one purpose that a boltok can serve that ARs (especially the hammerburst) cannot, and that's to headshot someone who isn't paying attention. That's why no one uses it. It has potential, but it's outclassed by the the availability of weapons that we already have. The same is true for the gorgon. It doesn't matter if it works "well enough" in CQC when the Gnasher and SO dominate it.

My point is that both of them are relatively useless. Sure, they CAN be used at times, but they're not better at anything in particular than weapons you already have. But they're pistols, they're supposed to be that way. I'm just arguing that there's no need for them to be pickup items.

I'm should've mentioned that i'm not arguing that we should be putting really strong weapons at pistol spawns. No torque, frags, boom, or dig. But I would think that flame nades, ink, or snipe would be a perfect fit for those spots. They're supportive weapons that aren't amazingly powerful, but still worth picking up.

I'd like the option to be able to select a boltok or gorgon from the start, but having a pistol location swapped with any other weapon seems like it would be too much for the map. If this happened with say sniper then there could be 3 snipers on the map. It would be too much and would completely unbalance the gameplay.

It wouldn't necessarily have to be this way. If boltoks are swapped for a snipe you could simply take the normal sniper out of the spot that it's in. I've never thought that the sniper deserves a power weapon spot anyway. It's just not THAT crucial to winning a round. It's a cool weapon with a lot of potential in the right hands, but it's not going to help you win most of the rounds you play. I think hotel is a great example of this. The sniper (in my experience) is almost never used even though it's in the place of a single power weapon. It would play a much greater role at the pistol spots, where both teams get one and they are located near one of the main areas of battle.

[Father Russia]

Boltok is really good, some games I find myself just using the boltok and picking up the ammo. Get to a ring in KoTH with a full active boltok and have a friend next to you with a lancer/hammerburst, 5 guys will easily go down if you hit each one of them and your friend picks up the scraps with some support fire.

As for the Gorgonzola, I think they should increase the clip size, or bring it back to being a burst weapon because an active gorgon can one-burst down in GoW2, that was the best feeling ever, it was like an M16.

(Also) The Boltok is banned from major league play, it easy to pop domes with that thing if you know how to lead a shot.

[llMurall]

Boltok is really good, some games I find myself just using the boltok and picking up the ammo. Get to a ring in KoTH with a full active boltok and have a friend next to you with a lancer/hammerburst, 5 guys will easily go down if you hit each one of them and your friend picks up the scraps with some support fire.

As for the Gorgonzola, I think they should increase the clip size, or bring it back to being a burst weapon because an active gorgon can one-burst down in GoW2, that was the best feeling ever, it was like an M16.

(Also) The Boltok is banned from major league play, it easy to pop domes with that thing if you know how to lead a shot.

I really don't need you to tell me how good the boltok is. I use it all the time, I've gotten hat tricks with it, yada yada yada. That's not what this thread is about. Just read what I posted and give a response.

[Raiju]

I wouldn't agree with selecting pistols as part of your loadout as the Boltok is too powerful for a staring weapon and if you decreased the damage of it, there wouldn't be much point of using it over the snub. As well, this would leave the Gorgon obsolete as you would never have a reason to choose it over the other pistols unless it was given a buff.

When it comes to the pistol spawns, I think they're fine on maps where each side spawns with one. The Gorgon is currently underused but an increase to the amount of ammunition it has or a buff to its damage would make it see a bit more use. However, I'd agree with the swap on Thrashball and The Slab because the only pistol on those maps is in the middle and teams aren't going to fight over control of a pistol when a power weapon is nearby.

[krazeyeyez]

Both are great and extremely effective, they get underused because the starting loadouts are more powerful and easy to use, but that doesn't mean you can't still have fun with them. The boltok is beastly and with a meat or boom shield the gorgon can be as well.

[DizzyRules]

Or even a damage buff. It's really only useful now if you get an active and are really, REALLY close to someone lol

Yeah, getting an active is crucial with it. The only time I actually have a great amount of success with it is when I pick up a meatshield and people expect the snub. I can get triples easy that way.

It wouldn't necessarily have to be this way. If boltoks are swapped for a snipe you could simply take the normal sniper out of the spot that it's in. I've never thought that the sniper deserves a power weapon spot anyway. It's just not THAT crucial to winning a round. It's a cool weapon with a lot of potential in the right hands, but it's not going to help you win most of the rounds you play. I think hotel is a great example of this. The sniper (in my experience) is almost never used even though it's in the place of a single power weapon. It would play a much greater role at the pistol spots, where both teams get one and they are located near one of the main areas of battle.

I'm sorry, but this is just ridiculous. In my experience, any map that has the longshot has a huge advantage for the team getting it. In the right hands you can get numerous headshots. Having more than one longshot on a map is just wrong. You might as well say, "Why not have 3 torques per map?" or "Let's see 3 diggers per map" They are all power weapons, some people are just better than others at using them. The boltok is a perfect counter to the longshot. Get that pistol actived on a full clip and you can take a sniper out.

[llMurall]

I wouldn't agree with selecting pistols as part of your loadout as the Boltok is too powerful for a staring weapon and if you decreased the damage of it, there wouldn't be much point of using it over the snub. As well, this would leave the Gorgon obsolete as you would never have a reason to choose it over the other pistols unless it was given a buff.

Even with a damage decrease, tt still has the advantage of being able to get headshots from afar and does at least 2x more damage than a pistol at regular fire. Combine that with the active RoF increase and I see a weapon that is vastly different than the pistol with advantages and disadvantages that make it a fair choice compared to the snub.

I'm sorry, but this is just ridiculous. In my experience, any map that has the longshot has a huge advantage for the team getting it. In the right hands you can get numerous headshots. Having more than one longshot on a map is just wrong. You might as well say, "Why not have 3 torques per map?" or "Let's see 3 diggers per map" They are all power weapons, some people are just better than others at using them. The boltok is a perfect counter to the longshot. Get that pistol actived on a full clip and you can take a sniper out.

Two statements in this post seem yo contradict each other. You say that most often whichever team gets the snipe gets a huge advantage, but then you say that it's only useful in the right hands. These statements can't both be true. I agree that the sniper is great in the right hands, but I do not agree that it's generally a dangerous weapon to have two of because there aren't enough "right hands" playing this game to give it too. There aren't that many good snipers out there, and individual players can do way more to avoid being sniped than they can to avoid other weapons. It's a difficult weapon, and most players are going to get 2 headshots with it in at most. It's not like a boomshot, digger, or frags. ANYBODY can pick up those weapons and get some kills. Are you seriously suggesting that the sniper is as much of a threat on average as any of those weapons?

As you should know, there are already a couple maps with 2 snipers, and there have been no problems with those at all.

Furthermore, I clearly stated that 3 snipers would be much, so the notion that I'd also want 3 diggers or 3 torques is ridiculous on that account as well.

[DizzyRules]

Even with a damage decrease, tt still has the advantage of being able to get headshots from afar and does at least 2x more damage than a pistol at regular fire. Combine that with the active RoF increase and I see a weapon that is vastly different than the pistol with advantages and disadvantages that make it a fair choice compared to the snub.



Two statements in this post seem yo contradict each other. You say that most often whichever team gets the snipe gets a huge advantage, but then you say that it's only useful in the right hands. These statements can't both be true. I agree that the sniper is great in the right hands, but I do not agree that it's generally a dangerous weapon to have two of because there aren't enough "right hands" playing this game to give it too. There aren't that many good snipers out there, and individual players can do way more to avoid being sniped than they can to avoid other weapons. It's a difficult weapon, and most players are going to get 2 headshots with it in at most. It's not like a boomshot, digger, or frags. ANYBODY can pick up those weapons and get some kills. Are you seriously suggesting that the sniper is as much of a threat on average as any of those weapons?

*sigh* . Can you really not see the sniper as a power weapon?

[llMurall]

*sigh* . Can you really not see the sniper as a power weapon?

I see it as the weakest of all of them. In an average match, I'll see snipes account for maybe 3 kills, generously, but a boomshot, digger, or frags would count for around 12-15 respectively. Teams don't rush sniper when there's something like a boomshot, digger, or frags. Snipers are the easiest to kill and the hardest to get kills with of all the power weapons. So no, I don't really see it as a power weapon at all. Perhaps I'm having a different experience. I play KotH, mind you.

Now answer me this: considering the skill level of the player and the potency of the weapon where do you think the sniper stacks up in comparison to the boomshot, frags, the digger, or torque? IMO it's dead last.

[RexMantlepiece]

I really don't need you to tell me how good the boltok is. I use it all the time, I've gotten hat tricks with it, yada yada yada. That's not what this thread is about. Just read what I posted and give a response.

[DizzyRules]

I see it as the weakest of all of them. In an average match, I'll see snipes account for maybe 3 kills, generously, but a boomshot, digger, or frags would count for around 12-15 respectively. Teams don't rush sniper when there's something like a boomshot, digger, or frags. Snipers are the easiest to kill and the hardest to get kills with of all the power weapons. So no, I don't really see it as a power weapon at all. Perhaps I'm having a different experience. I play KotH, mind you.

Now answer me this: considering the skill level of the player and the potency of the weapon where do you think the sniper stacks up in comparison to the boomshot, frags, the digger, or torque? IMO it's dead last.

see, in KOTH it is a very rush rush gametype. Of course you would see less use of pistols and longshot and more use of the explosives and nades. I am speaking about MP as a whole. Sorry bro, I just simply do not agree with you. Having more than one longshot on the map would be chaotic.

[Gnashes]

see, in KOTH it is a very rush rush gametype. Of course you would see less use of pistols and longshot and more use of the explosives and nades. I am speaking about MP as a whole. Sorry bro, I just simply do not agree with you. Having more than one longshot on the map would be chaotic.

You can't cater the entire game toward one mode.

Those weapons work much better in things that aren't KoTH. As such, there is no need to change them.

[ObservationSlave]

I like the boltok, but in my opinion the gorgon is just a weaker retro.

[llMurall]

see, in KOTH it is a very rush rush gametype. Of course you would see less use of pistols and longshot and more use of the explosives and nades. I am speaking about MP as a whole. Sorry bro, I just simply do not agree with you. Having more than one longshot on the map would be chaotic.

Hold it there. KotH is what I mainly play, but that doesn't mean I don't ever play the other ones. I play ranked TDM occasionally with a group of friends, and some days I play only guardian. In Gears 1 and 2 I played Execution and Warzone. I don't consider myself to be out of the loop of the overall status of the MP, and I don't consider you to be more of a reliable source to tell me what the overall MP is.

The only modes where I ever see sniping used effectively are Exe and Warzone. In all other gametypes, the usefulness of the sniper is about the same as how it is in KotH. And honestly, pistol use is about the same for all gametypes.

You never did answer my question.

The fact that you think that KotH is a "rush" gametype tells me that you don't know much about KotH. It's fast paced, but it's not rushing.

You still haven't accounted for the fact that there are several maps that have two snipers already.

I'd still like some more opinions.

[TAO Devil]

Gey better with em they are good support weapons. Boltok is a good slayer weapon

[LEGI0N47]

Cant see this as being a good implementation. In the right situation the pick up pistols are much more powerful than the snub. Boltok is probobly the most useful IMO, i love it.

Second replacing them with sniper or another power weapon would change the flow of the game too much. There are already too many people that try to do nothing but snipe (not always bad depending on game mode and or skill) and even worse do nothing while waiting for their precious to respawn.

[llMurall]

Cant see this as being a good implementation. In the right situation the pick up pistols are much more powerful than the snub. Boltok is probobly the most useful IMO, i love it.

Second replacing them with sniper or another power weapon would change the flow of the game too much. There are already too many people that try to do nothing but snipe (not always bad depending on game mode and or skill) and even worse do nothing while waiting for their precious to respawn.

The key phrase in your first statement is "in the right situation." A lot of weapons are good in the right situation, and a lot of times they're not good in other situations. Every weapon has its situational purpose, except for the pistols (by and large). The boltok is the only pistol that comes close to being an effective power weapon, but it is so outclassed by other weapons that it's not always worth picking up. More often than not, you can achieve the same result that you want from a boltok with an assault rifle and have an easier time doing it. If anything, my suggestion would bring out the usefulness of the pistols because beign able to choose which one you want would increase the number of situations in which you can use it.


As to your second statement, Gears has seen many changes in the flow of the game. Gears 2 changed the flow with wall frag tagging. Gears 3 changed the flow the most by buffing rifles, adding the retro and sawed off, and adding mantle kicks. There's nothing inherently wrong with changing the flow of the game, and, as i said earlier, the power weapons that you go in these spots would be largely inconsequential (snipe, ink, incindiary). There's always going to be people hoarding power weapons, regardless of how many of them there are. I doubt this would increase that trend very drastically at all.

[DizzyRules]

The key phrase in your first statement is "in the right situation." A lot of weapons are good in the right situation, and a lot of times they're not good in other situations. Every weapon has its situational purpose, except for the pistols (by and large). The boltok is the only pistol that comes close to being an effective power weapon, but it is so outclassed by other weapons that it's not always worth picking up. More often than not, you can achieve the same result that you want from a boltok with an assault rifle and have an easier time doing it. If anything, my suggestion would bring out the usefulness of the pistols because beign able to choose which one you want would increase the number of situations in which you can use it.


As to your second statement, Gears has seen many changes in the flow of the game. Gears 2 changed the flow with wall frag tagging. Gears 3 changed the flow the most by buffing rifles, adding the retro and sawed off, and adding mantle kicks. There's nothing inherently wrong with changing the flow of the game, and, as i said earlier, the power weapons that you go in these spots would be largely inconsequential (snipe, ink, incindiary). There's always going to be people hoarding power weapons, regardless of how many of them there are. I doubt this would increase that trend very drastically at all.

You should probably give up trying to ask for this. As much as you don't think its a power weapon it doesn't change the fact that it is. So no matter how you put it, you're simply saying, remove 2 support weapons and add 2 more power weapons in the map.

[llMurall]

You should probably give up trying to ask for this. As much as you don't think its a power weapon it doesn't change the fact that it is. So no matter how you put it, you're simply saying, remove 2 support weapons and add 2 more power weapons in the map.

That's yet to be seen. The status of "power weapon" is not factual, its evidential. The power weapons are what people want, not what Epic deems to be power. No one other than yourself has insisted that the snipe is as much of a power weapon as you say, and no one has really given any good reason why this wouldn't work. I'm not insisting that I'm right, but I am insisting that if someone's going to tell me that I'm wrong, then they should at least have a good reason. The only thing you've said so far is "it would be too chaotic" which you have not supported with any in game examples. That's not good enough, considering that I've given you arguments from experience and in game examples. I'm just looking for a good discussion, and no one yet has given a good response. You ignore pretty much every point I bring up and refuse to even discourse with me, so I won't be considering your input very much.

[bjo510]

Meh, honestly I'm A-OK with how the pistols are now.

If I feel like using a Lancer, the Snub Pistol could act as a mini-Hammerburst.

If there's no sniper on a map (Mercy, Jacinto, Thrashball, etc, etc) the Boltok makes for a nice surprise, people usually don't expect their dome to get rocked from the other side of the map when there's no sniper pick-up.

Hell, I'm even growing accustomed to using the Gorgon Pistol. Meatshielding someone with a Snub Pistol is already crazy, but doing it with a Gorgon is just priceless. Especially on maps like Depths, where I can pick up Boomshield, and Gorgon Pistol with 0 trouble, then fight through to torque whilst almost taking no damage.

[LordOfDeath]

I wouldn't agree with selecting pistols as part of your loadout as the Boltok is too powerful for a staring weapon and if you decreased the damage of it, there wouldn't be much point of using it over the snub. As well, this would leave the Gorgon obsolete as you would never have a reason to choose it over the other pistols unless it was given a buff.

When it comes to the pistol spawns, I think they're fine on maps where each side spawns with one. The Gorgon is currently underused but an increase to the amount of ammunition it has or a buff to its damage would make it see a bit more use. However, I'd agree with the swap on Thrashball and The Slab because the only pistol on those maps is in the middle and teams aren't going to fight over control of a pistol when a power weapon is nearby.

yeah,like we dont have weapon that is too powerful as starting weapon cough*retro*cough cough*super juiced gnasher*cough.Anyway,every pick-up weapon isnt power weapon,like digger isnt power weapon it is support weapon. Inks are massive support weapon. Mulcher is support weapon. What i mean,that pick-up pistols isnt weak compared against other pick-up weapons as they are support weapons more than power weapons.

[TooDumTooLive]

That's yet to be seen. The status of "power weapon" is not factual, its evidential. The power weapons are what people want, not what Epic deems to be power. No one other than yourself has insisted that the snipe is as much of a power weapon as you say, and no one has really given any good reason why this wouldn't work. I'm not insisting that I'm right, but I am insisting that if someone's going to tell me that I'm wrong, then they should at least have a good reason. The only thing you've said so far is "it would be too chaotic" which you have not supported with any in game examples. That's not good enough, considering that I've given you arguments from experience and in game examples. I'm just looking for a good discussion, and no one yet has given a good response. You ignore pretty much every point I bring up and refuse to even discourse with me, so I won't be considering your input very much.

You do realize that "your input" means diddly squat on whether or not your idea gets implemented, right? It all comes down to what Epic wants, which is (for the most part) based on what the fans want and judging from every single response so far, Epic isn't going to do this.

P.S. I also do not like your idea. You claim that the boltok gets outclassed by every other power weapon but it can win against diggers, torques, snipers, and pretty much everything except for boom, without much difficulty at all.

[llMurall]

You do realize that "your input" means diddly squat on whether or not your idea gets implemented, right? It all comes down to what Epic wants, which is (for the most part) based on what the fans want and judging from every single response so far, Epic isn't going to do this.

P.S. I also do not like your idea. You claim that the boltok gets outclassed by every other power weapon but it can win against diggers, torques, snipers, and pretty much everything except for boom, without much difficulty at all.

Again, I'm just trying to have a discussion. The refrence to input was a reference to the quality of the posts in the this discussion. Every big movement starts with an idea. I'm not expecting Epic to do this just because I think it's a good idea, I just want to know if anyone else thinks its a good idea. All I'm asking for is for people to make quality posts with good points. Most all the posts in this thread so far have simply shot down the idea with either no reason or a bad reason. Fro example, your reason for not liking the idea is a bad reason because whether or not the boltok can beat a torque, digger, sniper in a 1v1 is completely irrelevant. The question is, is the boltok as relevant to victory as the torque, digger, sniper, gnasher, SO, and all the assault rifles, and the answer is no. And regardless of the boltok having some situational uses, the gorgon is still utterly useless. Your point isn't worth consideration because its poorly thought out and lacks a fundamental understanding of the usefulness of weapons.

So far, the only good point that has been made is the one that LordOfDeath just made. I did not consider the boltok/gorgon in comparison to other support weapons, mainly because I do not consider them to be support weapons. It never occurred to me that many people class some pickups as power and other picukps as support. I consider all pickups to be power weapons, thus I did not make that separation. If the majority of posters class pickups similarly to this, then I will have to rethink my stance on the issue, but that has yet to be seen.

[TooDumTooLive]

Fine, I'll give you a more in-depth response. The reason why the pistols are not as powerful as the other power weapons is because they are SIDEARMS and meant to be used a back up weapon. Logically speaking, they shouldn't beat anything 1 v 1. I mostly use my snub for getting the last few shots for a down/kill if my rifle runs empty. The boltok I usually use as a primary because I find it so useful, especially since it can kill long range in execution. The gorgon I rarely pick up, it is decent with a meat or boomshield but I think it needs a buff like others mentioned. I don't like the idea of choosing your pistol because as previously stated, the boltok would probably be overpowered and the gorgon would go extinct. I also don't like the boltok's damage being tweaked because I find nothing wrong with the way it is currently; That is also my main argument for this whole thread, as much as you don't want to "consider" it.

[LEGI0N47]

The key phrase in your first statement is "in the right situation." A lot of weapons are good in the right situation, and a lot of times they're not good in other situations. Every weapon has its situational purpose, except for the pistols (by and large). The boltok is the only pistol that comes close to being an effective power weapon, but it is so outclassed by other weapons that it's not always worth picking up. More often than not, you can achieve the same result that you want from a boltok with an assault rifle and have an easier time doing it. If anything, my suggestion would bring out the usefulness of the pistols because beign able to choose which one you want would increase the number of situations in which you can use it.


As to your second statement, Gears has seen many changes in the flow of the game. Gears 2 changed the flow with wall frag tagging. Gears 3 changed the flow the most by buffing rifles, adding the retro and sawed off, and adding mantle kicks. There's nothing inherently wrong with changing the flow of the game, and, as i said earlier, the power weapons that you go in these spots would be largely inconsequential (snipe, ink, incindiary). There's always going to be people hoarding power weapons, regardless of how many of them there are. I doubt this would increase that trend very drastically at all.

I can most definately achieve more with a boltok than an assault rifle. I don't see it being outclassed by too many weapons, maybe boom, torque, and good snipers, that's about it and you stand a solid chance of killing them if they're not fast. Look the gun can pop heads in a second with an active, instantly as a support weapon. Boltok serves an important role and shouldn't be taken out of the map nor tweaked. while it's true that letting everyone have pickup pistols will enable you to use them in thier niche more; it would also have potential for to much BS with boltok teams.

The flow would be changed in some games, but not all. I've been playing a lot of KOTH lately and i'm getting really sick of guys on my team not playing the objective and just waiting for power weapons to respawn.

[Gnashty NaS]

Yeah the Boltok is a fun weapon, and the gorgon comforts me if I'm leader. I need those two to be in the spawns but I don't want to constantly switch between preferred pistols. It's a spawn right near the player spawn usually, it is not supposed to have a big impact on the outcome of the match, but they can most certainly Dave your life and end others.

[Ratman Fi]

Boltok kicks ass! I remember getting a four-man-clutch on Mercy by only using a Boltok and a meatshield. I got The Triple Ribbon and the last shot was a blindfire. I couldn't stop screaming.

[Nikkomara]

Boltok is a decent gun, definitely more of a support weapon. Still don't mind the accidental 2 shot headshot every now and then.
Gorgon... I never picked it up really. So I can't say what needs to be fixed.

[ControlEdge]

I see it as the weakest of all of them. In an average match, I'll see snipes account for maybe 3 kills, generously, but a boomshot, digger, or frags would count for around 12-15 respectively. Teams don't rush sniper when there's something like a boomshot, digger, or frags. Snipers are the easiest to kill and the hardest to get kills with of all the power weapons. So no, I don't really see it as a power weapon at all. Perhaps I'm having a different experience. I play KotH, mind you.

Now answer me this: considering the skill level of the player and the potency of the weapon where do you think the sniper stacks up in comparison to the boomshot, frags, the digger, or torque? IMO it's dead last.

You really haven't played much with skilled players eh?

The longshot is by no means the number one power weapon for guaranteeing kills. The boomshot takes that spot. However, in the hands of a skilled player, it accounts for the most deaths per pickup.

[ll ALEX76 ll]

Instead of removing pistols as pick-up weapons I would rather see more weapon spawns.
Anvil is having 4 spawns with 2 of them being pistols, there is more maps like this one.
What Epic was thinking putting Smoke Grenade as weapon pick-up on some maps is beyond my imagination.

[iCannotEatSugar]

I disagree with swapping pistols out. Used correctly by a skilled player they are just as valid as being on the map as any other gun. Replacing them with any kind of weapon would upset map balance completely. For example Checkout; If they were replaced with frags, there would be a potential 6 frag grenades on the map at one time, same with incendiaries. Any weapon is entirely situational and in regards to the Longshot being a power weapon or not, that too is situational. A good team with good communication would not be getting headshotted by a sniper, no matter how good he/she is. But the sniper can still provide support if a team mate gets into a gnasher battle. Neither of the pistols are intended to be used as primaries anyway, hence them being in the sidearm slot. I doubt you go running around with your snub out when pushing a KOTH hill.

[llMurall]

Fine, I'll give you a more in-depth response. The reason why the pistols are not as powerful as the other power weapons is because they are SIDEARMS and meant to be used a back up weapon. Logically speaking, they shouldn't beat anything 1 v 1. I mostly use my snub for getting the last few shots for a down/kill if my rifle runs empty. The boltok I usually use as a primary because I find it so useful, especially since it can kill long range in execution. The gorgon I rarely pick up, it is decent with a meat or boomshield but I think it needs a buff like others mentioned. I don't like the idea of choosing your pistol because as previously stated, the boltok would probably be overpowered and the gorgon would go extinct. I also don't like the boltok's damage being tweaked because I find nothing wrong with the way it is currently; That is also my main argument for this whole thread, as much as you don't want to "consider" it.

The fact that the pistols are side arms further supports my reasoning that they shouldn't be pick up. No other pick ups are so heavily underpowered, so why does it even make sense to have the pistols as pick up?

I understand your point about the boltok being possibly overpowered, and I understand that there's nothing currently wrong with it, but if that's the only thing wrong with this idea, I think that tweaking only the boltok to save the overall idea would be more important than just keeping the boltok the way it is. What's more important? Having a game where all the pistols are used frequently and effectively? Or having a game where only the boltok has a purpose and it's rarely used anyway?

Also, I don't think the Gorgon would go extinct as it is. I think that the main reason that people don't use it now is because its a pickup. Getting ahold of it is just too inconvenient, it's not worth getting every single time you spawn. But when a player actually has it, it serves some decent purposes. The only thing needed to make it more useable is to make it more available, which making it a selectable would do.

I can most definately achieve more with a boltok than an assault rifle. I don't see it being outclassed by too many weapons, maybe boom, torque, and good snipers, that's about it and you stand a solid chance of killing them if they're not fast. Look the gun can pop heads in a second with an active, instantly as a support weapon. Boltok serves an important role and shouldn't be taken out of the map nor tweaked. while it's true that letting everyone have pickup pistols will enable you to use them in thier niche more; it would also have potential for to much BS with boltok teams.

The flow would be changed in some games, but not all. I've been playing a lot of KOTH lately and i'm getting really sick of guys on my team not playing the objective and just waiting for power weapons to respawn.

So you don't think that all the assault rifles are more effective than a boltok? I disagree, but there's not much I can do in the way of proving that, except for maybe some stat ratios. Is there a way I can pull up stats of how many times a weapon is picked up on average? How much damage/ how many kills it gets?

As I said before, being "out-classed" isn't about 1v1 situations, it's about overall effectiveness. Whether or not a boltok can kill a boomshot is irrelevant. The question is which weapon is more important to the team, and why? The boomshot, torque, frags, etc. are more relevant to the team than the boltok because they are more effective.

Again, I agree that the boltok is fine now, but if tweaking it would make for gameplay that uses more varied weapons, I'm all for tweaking it.

About flow, KotH actually revolves a lot around power weapons. People waiting on them is very necessary, as long as it's not something useless like the sniper or the pistols.

Question to anyone: How often do you or your teammates pick up a boltok in the game?

[A CANADIAN]

No.

Boltok is an AMAZING support weapon.

Gorgon could use a small buff in my opinion, but it works well enough in CQC.

This. Although I feel it is like a semi-power weapon. Great for distance and easy to down and pop heads. I pick it up every time I see it.

[iCannotEatSugar]

" People waiting on them is very necessary, as long as it's not something useless like the sniper or the pistols."

Oh really? The way I see it you're trying to pass your opinion off as fact. Neither of those things are useless by any stretch of the imagination. While I'm not saying I would run to the Boltok or Gorgon first thing in the game, I definitely will pick them up at some point. ALL of the weapons in the game are situational. I would not use a pistol as my primary choice for a weapon just as I would not try to kill someone with the boomshot at close-quarters. In regards to what weapon is more important to the team, obviously the boomshot over the pistols would be. But if my team has possession of the boomshot already, surely I can take the time to go and grab a Gorgon pistol in case I need a little more firepower when I have a meatshield in the ring?

[llMurall]

" People waiting on them is very necessary, as long as it's not something useless like the sniper or the pistols."

Oh really? The way I see it you're trying to pass your opinion off as fact. Neither of those things are useless by any stretch of the imagination. While I'm not saying I would run to the Boltok or Gorgon first thing in the game, I definitely will pick them up at some point. ALL of the weapons in the game are situational. I would not use a pistol as my primary choice for a weapon just as I would not try to kill someone with the boomshot at close-quarters. In regards to what weapon is more important to the team, obviously the boomshot over the pistols would be. But if my team has possession of the boomshot already, surely I can take the time to go and grab a Gorgon pistol in case I need a little more firepower when I have a meatshield in the ring?

I'm not trying to pass off opinion as fact. Many people just as yourself are making the same type of authoritative statements that could be interpreted as "being stated as fact." I welcome all arguments against my opinions because I know I can back them up with my own arguments.

I agree all of the weapons are situational, but some are more situational than others. The Gnasher covers way more CQC situations than the gorgon, and the assault rifles cover way more situations than the boltok. Given the scenario you mentioned, why would I run all the way across a map to get a Gorgon when I have a lancer? They're both about as capable of defending against a rush or setting up an area (though the lancer is probably more.) Why would I risk dieing or not being where my teammates need me to be for a gorgon pistol? Why would I stop to pick up that gun when I could be heading to a fight or helping to secure a better power weapon? The use that it serves is not worth the burden of getting it. The gnasher and lancer already cover pretty much every scenario a gorgon could be used for. There are better weapons readily available. The boltok is the only pistol that remotely stands out as being worth picking up.