"Silver-Gr00ve NG Code"

[=Silver=]

In its wish to make IB for everyone, Chair made it too easy for pro, skill based players. There appeared many legal "cheating" methods and devices (like those cheating gems ala Parry all and so on) which made already divergent NG gameplay (i.e. the more you progress in NG, the easier to play) even hackable.

So, this is our attempt to create a balanced, skill based NG gameplay, which would be skill-capped instead of time-capped. Below are the main points of this code.

You are welcome to discuss it.
Purpose is clear - to create perfectly balanced, skill-capped and challenging NG gameplay (currently for dual).

NG Code

1. Don't buy directly any items, except Nova Grinder, Thark armor, keys and prize wheels.
2. Use and master only what is given through game as rewards, from chests and prize wheels
3. No more than 5 RBs per 1 God King. The exception is a "10th NG Rule" - every 10th NG you can go for 10 RBs.
4. Don't equip any other gems except hex, round (stats) and square (magic attack).
5. No magic healing, you only get health through leveling and rebirth (you may use health potion only once per NG - before the God King fight).
6. You can allocate all new earned stat points only once per NG - after killing the God King
7. You are not allowed to master items with money. True practice only.



Join the crusade! And see how far you can go.

____________________________________________
* Arguable issues, which can destabilize a gameplay

[gr00veh0lmes]

Knights of the NG Code


＝Silver＝
gr00veh0lmes
grantnoe
aenimis
csmok1
Laygh
Blade Dancer

[DoomFree]

I don't know ...if going up NG make the game too easy why don't just stay in OG?

[DoomFree]

I wouldn't mind playing strictly OG for the challenge,
But I hate the idea that 1 piece per slot is locked in OG.
That's is stupid at best.

[DoomFree]

I wouldn't mind playing strictly OG for the challenge,
But I hate the idea that 1 piece per slot is locked in OG.
That's is stupid at best.

[grantnoe]

I wouldn't mind playing strictly OG for the challenge,
But I hate the idea that 1 piece per slot is locked in OG.
That's is stupid at best.

What do you mean by '1 piece per slot?'

[DoomFree]

What do you mean by '1 piece per slot?'

light, heavy, dual, shield. helm, etc.
for each slot there is 1 item that you can't obtain in OG.
And I have no idea the fxxk was that for.

[grantnoe]

Oh I know what you mean; NG exclusive items. Yeah that is pointless. I was kinda wanting the Hess in OG...

[Silversabeast]

Oh I know what you mean; NG exclusive items. Yeah that is pointless. I was kinda wanting the Hess in OG...

I don't think it's entirely pointless...They did it in IB1 too..

[Silversabeast]

Oh I know what you mean; NG exclusive items. Yeah that is pointless. I was kinda wanting the Hess in OG...

I don't think it's entirely pointless...They did it in IB1 too..

[grantnoe]

I don't think it's entirely pointless...They did it in IB1 too..

But for what reason?

[Silversabeast]

But for what reason?

To encourage people to try NG+.

[Sonts]

Thark armor is by far the best armor in game, and you allow us to buy it?

[grantnoe]

Thark armor is by far the best armor in game, and you allow us to buy it?

It is the best for dodging, but it is not the best for protection.

[DoomFree]

Well. It doesn't encourage going to Ng at all. Given all locked stuff is crap
It just stop people from doing og

[grantnoe]

Well. It doesn't encourage going to Ng at all. Given all locked stuff is crap
It just stop people from doing og

If they really want people to go to NG, they should make the NG slots deletable, so that we can transfer our current OG stats to NG.
Just a thought/suggestion

[DoomFree]

If they really want people to go to NG, they should make the NG slots deletable, so that we can transfer our current OG stats to NG.
Just a thought/suggestion

Well I have to disagree. Og stat cap is easy to reach.
And points can be relocated with gold
Why would someone want to go back to ng^2 really?

[grantnoe]

Well I have to disagree. Og stat cap is easy to reach.
And points can be relocated with gold
Why would someone want to go back to ng^2 really?

OG stats are really helpful in the more difficult first few rebirths. There is not much money for reallocation in the first few either.
Ha and no, nobody wants to be at ng^2...

[Sonts]

Effective hp is much higher than any other armor i am aware of. I think it's the only armor that allows you to pass beast type mobs without getting any damage. I were discussing dual weps setup, just FYI

[grantnoe]

Effective hp is much higher than any other armor i am aware of. I think it's the only armor that allows you to pass beast type mobs without getting any damage. I were discussing dual weps setup, just FYI

Haha no, Thark armor has the lowest HP my friend. The reason it is so good is because of the insane amount of dodges it allows you to have: that is why the wretches are so much easier.

[=Silver=]

Some modifications if you don't mind ＝Silver＝

1, no Titan break or perfect parry gems. These make fights easier/shorter.
2, you can buy items to increase xp gained.
3, you can use the CM glitch for keys while it lasts.
4, only use potions when you have 5 of them.

If we stick to 5 RB per GK, then you won't be able to use a large key until RB 3, and won't be able to get big money til RB 4 (if the CM glitch is allowed). This helps minimise the amount of items we can buy.

Whaddya think?

1. Ok, I can agree to use them only if it's given by game: rewards, chests, wheels. I think it'll be rare enough to make fights too easy. So, the only gem you can by - is xp hex. It allows to get a bit more pts and fasten healing by leveling. But it's not a very often guest in the gem store... We may prohibit buying all gems at all if you want - only if it's given by game and only hex

2. Which items do you mean? I wouldn't like to make it a direct buy - it'd be too easy and monotonous, we have to keep the intrigue and diversity, or it'll be one more OG grind.

Want to buy smth for mastering - buy keys or wheels. If it gives you smth uncomfortable - you've got the choice: learn to use it, save money to master, or forget about it and consider it as a bad luck.
I remember how I lately invested all the money in the new big key, but chest gave me the reaper... I tried to use it, not enough health, to sell it and regain at least some money you have to fully master it, master with money was impossible, so it was a bad luck

So, I suggest "indirect buy" except Thark, nova, keys and wheels

3. I don't mind. I can't login there anyway

4. That's a nice compromise

@DoomFree
OG is too predictable and monotonous, with no need for leveling, gem forging, money mgmt and all the joy that comes with it. All the more killing GK 10:1 and having pure cracked all the titans removed much of the need for further GK climbing in OG. "NG Code" must take the best from two worlds

@Sonts
Thark is good when you are low health, especially if you are far from the end of RB and your next lvl - no possibility to heal. If you will meet a wretch or MX-g - you are in a trap, one exhausted dodge and you are done. So, you MAY buy it directly if you need it

[=Silver=]

Haha no, Thark armor has the lowest HP my friend. The reason it is so good is because of the insane amount of dodges it allows you to have: that is why the wretches are so much easier.

He means that when you have 100 000 hp it's no big difference between armors base hp stats, would it be 105 000 or 100 100

[dknowle]

I wouldn't mind playing strictly OG for the challenge,
But I hate the idea that 1 piece per slot is locked in OG.
That's is stupid at best.

I have an OG & NG save. I'm over 100 rebirths on OG and yet to see challenge. Maybe at 200+ rebirth...

[gr00veh0lmes]

2. Which items do you mean? I wouldn't like to make it a direct buy - it'd be too easy and monotonous, we have to keep the intrigue and diversity, or it'll be one more OG grind.

Want to buy smth for mastering - buy keys or wheels. If it gives you smth uncomfortable - you've got the choice: learn to use it, save money to master, or forget about it and consider it as a bad luck.
I remember how I lately invested all the money in the new big key, but chest gave me the reaper... I tried to use it, not enough health, to sell it and regain at least some money you have to fully master it, master with money was impossible, so it was a bad luck

So, I suggest "indirect buy" except Thark, nova, keys and wheels

Fair enough, this way it'll be more of a race, instead of constant fiddling with the inventory, although I doubt we'll be able to generate enough cash to buy prize wheels.

Items can be bought and mastered at the end of the NG cycle? May as well use up any spare cash mastering heavy and light weapons.

See you at NG 100 then, maybe finesse these guidelines?

[=Silver=]

Fair enough, this way it'll be more of a race, instead of constant fiddling with the inventory, although I doubt we'll be able to generate enough cash to buy prize wheels.

Items can be bought and mastered at the end of the NG cycle? May as well use up any spare cash mastering heavy and light weapons.

See you at NG 100 then, maybe finesse these guidelines?

I think we'll be always slightly tuning it in the process.
Big prize wheels and keys - are only after you got money from the big chest, having them you can get a lot of staff through big wheels and chests. Part of it you master in the process, part - with money after killing GK and drinking 5th potion If big chest will give a crap, well, se lavi

I corrected OP with the last agreements

[gr00veh0lmes]

Ok, let's go then. I was sitting in NG 10, but sod that, I'm off up the NG ladder.

P.S. If you wanna be real hard about it, don't allocate any skill points earned in the NG cycle UNTIL you kill the god king.

[=Silver=]

Nice idea, added as p.6
I'm now NG12, fought along the Code (more or less) since NG5

I feel we got something interesting now...
Without defense gems I'll be one-hit dead very soon

[judasClown]

NG Code

1. Don't buy directly any items, except Nova Grinder, Thark armor, keys and prize wheels.
2. Use and master only what is given through game as rewards, from chests and prize wheels
3. No more than 5 RBs per 1 God King
4. Don't use any other gems except hex, only for forging to make hex or money.
5. No magic healing, you only get health through leveling and rebirth. You may use health potion only if you have 5 of them.
6. You can allocate all new earned stat points once each NG+ only after killing the God King

What allowed:
1. You can use money to master any items in your inventory
2. You still can use offensive magic spells and super
3. You can use CM Keys glitch*

Join the crusade! And see how far you can go.

____________________________________________
* Arguable issues, which can destabilize a gameplay

this exactly im doing ryt now,since my NG^3..ryt now im in NG^5..this is very helpful to other noob player like me..

[dagdamor1]

*sigh* You want extreme difficulty? Don't use any skill points, period. Don't blame ChAIR for wanting to increase the accessibility for more casual gamers from IB1, the Deathless Kings, Zero Mech, and Archarin beat the playing motivation out of a LOT of people.

Some people want to grind, some people want to show it off to their friends, some people want a challenge. I would strongly suggest that this thread be changed to "NG Hardcore Code" or "NG Challenge Code."

You have about 80 different choices that affect how difficult the game will be for you. Don't fault game designers for giving casual players opportunities to avoid the "walls" that smashed them mercilessly in the face in IB1 without resorting to IAP.

[gr00veh0lmes]

Without defense gems I'll be one-hit dead very soon

Sorry to be nosy, but how many HP do you have? I've got 11,000, and I think that may be too much?

Which leads me to consider stat re-allocation, is this to be allowed? Maybe limit it to once every 20 NG's?

[=Silver=]

*sigh* You want extreme difficulty? Don't use any skill points, period. Don't blame ChAIR for wanting to increase the accessibility for more casual gamers from IB1, the Deathless Kings, Zero Mech, and Archarin beat the playing motivation out of a LOT of people.

Some people want to grind, some people want to show it off to their friends, some people want a challenge. I would strongly suggest that this thread be changed to "NG Hardcore Code" or "NG Challenge Code."

You have about 80 different choices that affect how difficult the game will be for you. Don't fault game designers for giving casual players opportunities to avoid the "walls" that smashed them mercilessly in the face in IB1 without resorting to IAP.

You want extreme easiness? Go play Epic Citadel, period
Joke

Take it easy, we don't blame anyone, we don't even ask someone to change anything. On the contrary.

Though I think, and I told it many times, like many other ppl here, that NG+ mode in IB2 has some serious gameplay problems. The main problem (apart from some smaller bugs like the absence of choice to go next NG or stay, etc) is not in that it is easy or hard, but that it is divergent (power of player grows faster than powers of enemies), thus there are no skill cap.

So, in order to make NG interesting, diverse, with the use of all new systems (gem forge, money mgmt, chests, wheels etc), perfectly balanced and skill based, we created a special NG Code, following which many gamers will enjoy the gameplay very much and be able to compare meaningful achievements, discuss things. That's it.

Look, neither we, nor the name of the thread force anyone to join this Code, it's always your own will.

[=Silver=]

Sorry to be nosy, but how many HP do you have? I've got 11,000, and I think that may be too much?

Which leads me to consider stat re-allocation, is this to be allowed? Maybe limit it to once every 20 NG's?

I have 10,000 HP in skill. Sooner or later I guess it will be too much. Then
all in attack and go ahead!

I think we may reallocate as much as we want if we got 1 mil. It's from the moment when the big key will begin to give us such money.

[dagdamor1]

You want extreme easiness? Go play Epic Citadel, period
Joke

Take it easy, we don't blame anyone, we don't even ask someone to change anything. On the contrary.

Though I think, and I told it many times, like many other ppl here, that NG+ mode in IB2 has some serious gameplay problems. The main problem (apart from some smaller bugs like the absence of choice to go next NG or stay, etc) is not in that it is easy or hard, but that it is divergent (power of player grows faster than powers of enemies), thus there are no skill cap.

So, in order to make NG interesting, diverse, with the use of all new systems (gem forge, money mgmt, chests, wheels etc), perfectly balanced and skill based, we created a special NG Code, following which many gamers will enjoy the gameplay very much and be able to compare meaningful achievements, discuss things. That's it.

Look, neither we, nor the name of the thread force anyone to join this Code, it's always your own will.

Fair enough. It's always important to give credit to the designers that they left a great deal of control regarding the difficulty in our own hands. As long as that's acknowledged, then codes like this are productive for the playerbase that thrives on challenge, so long as they are aware of it or others that have its basic structure. Along those lines, there should be an attempt at making this or another thread a sticky, with some eye-catcher like "Who wants a higher challenge?" or the like.

Thank you for clarifying your intent.

[gr00veh0lmes]

So, in order to make NG interesting, diverse, with the use of all new systems (gem forge, money mgmt, chests, wheels etc), perfectly balanced and skill based, we created a special NG Code, following which many gamers will enjoy the gameplay very much and be able to compare meaningful achievements, discuss things. That's it.

Look, neither we, nor the name of the thread force anyone to join this Code, it's always your own will.

This is exactly it.

Silver, for someone whose first language isn't English. I admire and salute your words. I couldn't have expressed this better.

Thank you.

[grantnoe]

Bumping thread to clarify the one gr00ve just posted

[gr00veh0lmes]

@ ＝Silver＝

I'm minded to disallow the CM glitch, it just doesn't feel right. I also think that ALL gems are to be disallowed.

What are your thoughts on these suggestions?

[=Silver=]

@ ＝Silver＝

I'm minded to disallow the CM glitch, it just doesn't feel right. I also think that ALL gems are to be disallowed.*

What are your thoughts on these suggestions?

1. Totally agree about CM glitch. Someone can just get a tons of money and master everything... This is exploit in a gameplay balance and will be removed.*

2. Gems. I think it may harm the gameplay diversity, cause gem subsystem will be limited just to gem forging to make money. I think it's good to allow using hex gems. You can't buy it in the store, so you can either forge it or get through rewards/chests/wheels. It's rare, but you can increase gold or getting pts (xp+) / leveling speed to heal faster. Other gems are not so useful, well maybe break+, but it's extrimally rare.*

I'm thinking even about to allow round (stats) and square (attack) gems. It'll make forging process more interesting

What do you think?

[gr00veh0lmes]

I'm thinking even about to allow round (stats) and square (attack) gems. It'll make forging process more interesting

Just to clarify, are you saying that we can equip, or just forge round and square gems? Implying that we cannot forge any gems EXCEPT round, square or hex gems.

[grantnoe]

Just to clarify, are you saying that we can equip, or just forge round and square gems? Implying that we cannot forge any gems EXCEPT round, square or hex gems.

Square are not as helpful as the round and hex (for xp)

[=Silver=]

Sorry, my bad, let's clear things up

We can't buy directly any gem, the only ways we can get them are:

- Rewards through the game
- Chests and wheels
- Forge

The issue is in whether we can equip them or just sell/forge. Currently we can equip only hex gems. I suggest to allow equipping more: round and square gems.

My argument is that it'll allow to increase the "joy output" from the gem forging system without any visible impact on a difficulty balance.