{solved} tri/vert doubles on import 20ktri-29k-verts too much for ios?

[stephan360]

Hi, thank you for checking out my problem. When i import my level from 3ds max 2012 it increases the triangle and verticie count by almost double.

1) is there any thing i can try to keep it at the original count?

2) also what about the current count is it too much? i know the answer will vary depending on skeletal meshes, bones and lighting and particles. But im trying to get a good opinion on should i even try and find a fix for the count the level is currently at? i would love to get it down to the original count, the uvw and textures are all fine inside udk. That was the only hint i have found so far on this topic...was bad uvw's.

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/3817/maxzc.png

http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/3364/udk.png

[Solid Snake]

Ensure that your mesh is triangulated before exporting. I would recommend doing this manually, as the automatic process may cause edges to be inwards (long edges vs short edges).

Reduce the number of materials used by a single mesh. The way 3D cards handle a single mesh with multiple materials is to simply cut it up and render them as two meshes. This causes potentially higher vertex count as compared to the 3D Content Package.

iOS is typically bad at the number of draw calls, rather than the number of a polygons per draw call. For example, if you had three barrels on the scene, that is potentially three draw calls. If you merged the three barrels into a single mesh, then it is a single draw call. The three barrels will render slower then the single tri barrel setup; but the polygon and vertex counts are the same.

[stephan360]

Thank you for such a quick reply solid snake....Here is my issue. i have and will continue to combine meshes to the best of my ability. Example the house, fences and rocks are all grouped as a single mesh. My problem is when it comes to the items that are destructible to the player. If i group all the tomb stones as a single mesh, how would i program it to set different levels of taking damage to each tomb stone.

this is how i have test programmed it

player deals damage
mesh takes damage
particle system releases
mesh is killed
collectible coins are spawned

if particles are too heavy for the game, then will just load collectible coins as the mesh is deleted off screen. "any better ideas on a more intuitive way of fabricating destructible items in udk?

I haven't tried this yet, but i think if i combined all the tomb stones and then broke only one of them, would the rest of them disappear too, since udk is calculating it as a single mesh. Fyi i think i have bitten off more than i can chew with my first project, so any and all help is very very appreciated!

[darthviper107]

You need to separate that out a bit--you shouldn't have your whole scene as one mesh. As a whole scene 20,000 isn't bad at all. I've got a scene that's probably at least 100,000 that it handles just fine. But it can hide parts that aren't visible since they're separate pieces.

[Dodge]

I wouldnt think the amount of tomb stones you have will be a problem being imported on their own, rather than combined.

A way to show tri count in Max is to go into viewport configuration, statistics, then select tri counts. This will give you a more accurate polycount.

I tried with particle effects and it caused a lot of lag, however I may have done it wrong, I think the particles need to be really low counts, and simple. Another way would be to use an animated texture in place of particle effects.

I haven't tested destructible objects on iOS yet, does fracture not work?
The level I have released is around 150,00 polys but that does use visibility volumes. If you are clever with your draw distance, this level would run fine =]

Also a note, if the player is not leaving the yard, you could replace a lot of assets with planes!

[stephan360]

@darthviper- the scene will be seperated. Only non destructible items will be grouped as single mesh like fences, walls, trees, buildings. This lay out is going to be re-done into 3 seperate areas of game play. It's one solid mesh because I combined during import just to play with in inside the editor. Will take much time doing seperate imports, and placements.

@dodge- nope as far as i know there are no ios physics for destructible object. I spent a lot of time browsing lots of threads. It seemed at ine time udk had apex or some other physics for ios but everyone sais they dont work. Also being new ill see how the particles turn out. I read somewhere if you limit the rate of release to lower amount it is really helpful in ios. The player will not be leaving the grave yard so by using planes are you suggesting flattening the yard and using box planes? If not please clarify that with me.

Thanks to you both, I will check the tri count inside max when I get off work.

[Dodge]

No problem, I will hopefully get a new App ID set up by weekend, so I can start creating a test level for this kind of stuff.

For the planes, it all depends on what the player can see, what camera system will you be using? 3rd/1st?
But basically, the yard is ok to have some raised areas, and these can be simple enough to only be a few polys. Again depending on your camera, the walls can just be a 2D plane.
have you got a wireframe render to see where the polys are stacking up?

[woodesh]

as Dodge mentions it would mostly come down to what sort of camera system is being used, the scenes details look as though its from a top down/third person style like the jazz demo. i would probably lower some of the tree's in the graveayards polycount, currently they look pretty dense and it seems the same effect for the smaller branches can be recreated using square planes and material masking. this effect could also be applied to the Gate.


the general poly count of the whole scene seems to not favour any of the bigger pieces, when looking in terms of detail one is drawn to the church but it looks like it can't be more than 1000 triangles in a scene of 20000. remember to try to add the little details last and use the bulk of the count on the focal points.

[XilenceX]

If your Triangle count doubles when you import from 3DS max to UDK then you might have your smoothing groups wrong or none at all. The tri count should stay about the same if they are correct. Also remember to activate the smoothing group import in the FBX plugin!

[stephan360]

@Dodge -DUHHH!!! it is the exact same number of triangles in max that it is in udk. I was looking at polygons as being the same. Guess it shows how little i actually know. Thanks for all the help guys. It is really appreciated! The camera will be top down, possible third person as well during some different styles of game play. Thanks you and Woodesh for the hints on using planes. I am going to look into this if its needed.

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/9531/duhh.png

Thank you xilencex for your recommendations

@woodesh- I can agree with you of the analysis of my level. It is designed specifically that way. Yes i need to add some more detail in the yard, change up the textures. But this is designed for a specific function of game play. It all has to be smaller meshes so they can be destructible. Until udk ios supports fractured meshes then i will be forced to continue scattering my levels with small items. My main focal point for game play is the tomb stones in the graveyards. If you want to break large meshes this is the radical steps you would have to take tripling your work load, and it doesn't look natural at all.

large mesh
1.) program to take damage 7 hits
2.)received damage hit 1
3.) spawn particle effect
4.) load damaged model to show it has taken damage.
5.) repeat this 6 more time until completely destroyed.

this is sooo bad, the particle have to be large enough to cover the new model loading. The performance is crap spawning particles and loading new models at the same time. The worst of all is not modeling one model but 7 to show all phases of taking damage. "I WISH SOMEONE WOULD COME AND SHOW ME DIFFERENT, I WOULD STICK MY FOOT IN MY MOUTH WITH A HUGE *SS SMILE ON MY FACE, but im afraid this is the only way i have found of doing it.