Dual Guide (by =Silver=)

[=Silver=]

I understood what the Immediate Slash means when i see myself cracking the Fel Siren, when she used her Somersault stepback, i went down to dodge and immediately parry to the right.

I was a light fighter, now i am aimed at the dual way. Thank you, Silver.

You are welcome
Dual style has a great potential

[Farfield]

You are welcome
Dual style has a great potential

Sure it is in the MX-stealth video, you said to me that the technique was the "one-tap-dodge" but in the 0.30, when the titan throw the right leg, you dodge twice very fast; when i do that, even when i just tap the button once, Siris stay a moment without move, like you explain in the "Dodge Doom" selection, and i could see that you dodge right after the leg hits you, so, is that the key? or is to dodge and dodge again before the animation ends?

Sorry for ask too much, but my interest in the game are to get better, i am not so interested in leveling up, and seeing your videos came across my mind all this questions, i hope not to annoying you. Thanks again for the attention.

[=Silver=]

Dodges do not stack like swipes. So, "Immediate Slash"-like technique will not help. You need to feel the moment or push it fast repeatedly hoping that one of those pushes will be closer on time to trigger dodge action with the minimum time interval.

[Galbatrox78]

Even with the fel siren pure crack she is still kickin my butt

[NiiLoC]

Even with the fel siren pure crack she is still kickin my butt

what about fel siren is giving you difficulties?

recognizing which step back is coming? recognizing which attack chain is coming?

[Lame Marine]

Hey, this is an awesome guide and has given me much incentive to use dual weapons a bit more however I noticed on the first post that the combos section is cut off midway. I'm hoping that this is to be fixed as I don't want to miss out on something I didn't know. So far I know you can "finish" a combo for extra damage while comboing. The way I do it is start the combo by doing up, down, up or left, right, left then continue to do the same pattern which for me is usually up, down, up then after the 3rd hit in the combo you sweep left or right to finish the combo and deal extra damage (seen as a x-slash by Siris).

I only say this because I've seen videos of people playing and they never use this even though it's helpful for a last hit during a break.

[=Silver=]

Don't know what happened, but I restored the first post and updated a bit second (on the God King magic)
Enjoy

[baincardin]

This thread should be stickied permanently.

[Silversabeast]

This thread should be stickied permanently.

Yep. I dont really like the new stickies

[csmok1]

Hi Silver, I'm having trouble with this mx hulk's football charge stepbacks. After the first charge, i find it very difficult to time the upswing and punch down, as I always being hit by the punch down @_@ I tried to dodge as late as possible for the upswing but I always come back to centre too early, as though my side dodge doesn't hold as long as I expected......

Then it's the sick Lupun. any updates on this puppy? I discovered that the vile blade tree monster(2nd phase) also have a few
unblockable stepbacks. any thoughts?

Lastly let's talk about the centre stabs. I find that it's hard to parry centre stabs consistently. For example If I dodge a double centre stab, then most likely i cant dodge the next hand smack. Can you advice on this please? Thanks so much ^_^

[=Silver=]

Hi Silver, I'm having trouble with this mx hulk's football charge stepbacks. After the first charge, i find it very difficult to time the upswing and punch down, as I always being hit by the punch down @_@ I tried to dodge as late as possible for the upswing but I always come back to centre too early, as though my side dodge doesn't hold as long as I expected......

Then it's the sick Lupun. any updates on this puppy? I discovered that the vile blade tree monster(2nd phase) also have a few
unblockable stepbacks. any thoughts?

Lastly let's talk about the centre stabs. I find that it's hard to parry centre stabs consistently. For example If I dodge a double centre stab, then most likely i cant dodge the next hand smack. Can you advice on this please? Thanks so much ^_^

1. Try "Coerced Dodge": you have to be returning from the first one until the end of his first punch. Like well known knights' "shield-leg-slash": shield and leg - is too much for one dodge, while performing a full-time dodge will end up missing second hit (you can't control siris, "returning" from the side dodge, unlike crouch, but this "quick crouch" costs you two dodges). So, you need a 1/2 dodge. This is "Coerced Dodge".

2. No, progress is stopped at one missing hit per each combo. If you can't allow even one hit - use magic or super. Or use cheating, like "parry all gem"

3. I didn't find a stable way to parry stabs. I recommend dodge it. For quick "hand/leg/stab sessions" use a "One-Tab Dodge" technique. This is the only way. For "double stabs" like one in the combo of the "guy with reaper" use one continued dodge.

[csmok1]

Gosh I really having a hard time for this advanced coerced dodge concept..... Don't mind can you elaborate more on this please Silver?

So is it 1. Coerced side dodge on the charge, release on the upswing, then 2. Tap side dodge on the punch down, lastly duck, OR
1. Tap side dodge on the charge, 2. Coerced side dodge on the upswing, release on the punch down, then duck, OR
1. Tap side dodge on the charge, 2. coerced side dodge on the upswing, tap side dodge on punch down, then duck

[=Silver=]

Second.
You may train coerced dodge with any knight.

[csmok1]

As for my own understanding, going into side dodge does have invincibility, but not when coming back to centre's animation. Let me elaborate : when Im getting into side dodge, opponent can't hit me at all, as I'm in an invincible state. But when I'm returning back to centre, regardless wether I'm forced or release on purpose, I can be hit during the animation of returning into centre.

So, the best I've done before (but not very practical) is as follows:
1. 3 one tap side dodge for charge, upswing and punch down, then duck (this requires perfect and the earliest timing, I have to start dodging when hulk set up the charging pose)
2. If its the second one then it's the one that im trying to do all this time. I dodge early for the charge, back to centre when hulk is in front of me. Then I try to dodge as late as possible and hold, if the the timing is good when Sirius is forced to come back to centre the punch is already down. Then I just duck for the horizontal swing. But this is dodge and hold, not coerced dodge, if I understood you correctly.

As for the knights, when they do shield-leg-left swing, I will duck early (is this the coerced dodge you're talking about?), then left one tap dodge, lastly duck. This works consistently.

My apologies to you if I didn't get what you mean. Ive tried to read through your guide on coerced dodge, the best I can understand is shown above. Honestly my English level is average, hope you can further clarify on this ^_^

[=Silver=]

Yes, I think you understand it right. Nevertheless, here is more detailed definition:

The essence of "Coerced Dodge" technique is literally in "coercing": it answers the question - "how to make dodge as short as possible in order to leave time for next moves". The answer is - to coerce it, or in other words to make the first part of dodge beforehand, to leave only final part of dodge to counter, not the full dodge action. That's it, to align the end of attack move with the end of the dodge action: the technique for doing that - is to push the dodge and wait for the end of attack move you are trying to dodge. The best timed "coerced dodge" is when attack move ends at the same time with the dodge move, so you don't have to wait for the "return from dodge" to make next move.

[csmok1]

Now I get it......... Coerced dodge vs normal tap on the first charge move does have a significant influence on the next side dodge...... Coerced dodge does give me ample time to prepare for the next move. World of difference! Now it's just a matter of practice for the consistency then.

Thanks Silver, you really have an in depth view on the gameplay, and very helpful indeed ^_^ are you one of ChAIR's developer/programmer too?

[=Silver=]

Now I get it......... Coerced dodge vs normal tap on the first charge move does have a significant influence on the next side dodge...... Coerced dodge does give me ample time to prepare for the next move. World of difference! Now it's just a matter of practice for the consistency then.

Thanks Silver, you really have an in depth view on the gameplay, and very helpful indeed ^_^ are you one of ChAIR's developer/programmer too?

Thanks, you are welcome

Yeah, all ppl in this forum are out-of-staff dev team

[csmok1]

Lol..... Most of the time, out-of-staff are VERY valuable ^_^ I can witness this here

[ckd0214]

Great guide here silver!

For stabs, a perfect parry (sometimes, on some attacks and its iffy) gives stabs. At the end of some combos, you get stabs. If you perfect parry an end combo that rewards you with stabs, and get a perfect parry, you get TWO stab circles at one time. Is that the parallel circles you were referring to? It was a little unclear.

[csmok1]

Hi there ckd, if you're referring to my post earlier, I'm talking about opponents' (eyeless, defender, fel, acolyte....) stabs ^_^

For our own stabs, I find that it's not consistent to get stabs, even when I get a few perfect parries in a row. Heck sometimes I get stabs from a normal stab ^_^" can't figure out the logic behind this.

[=Silver=]

Right, to get stabs you need to perfect parry the last hit or interrupt stepback. Sometimes you get stab session after usual parry. It's shown in the pop-up: "perfect parry break" or just "parry break".

But sometimes stab session gives you a parallel circles, i.e. more than one circle at a time. Don't know how it happens, I guess it's a bug.

[ckd0214]

I was referring to "dodge and parry", sect 2.1.2.3.1
Silver mentions "parallel stabs" in the guide.
In my first post, I'm unclear. When I say "for stabs" at the beginning, I meant your own stabs you get as reward for parries and at the end of some combos. I simply meant to mention the general section found (it's a big guide). I do realize now that "for stabs" can mean many things. Sorry.
And yeah stabs are inconsistent. I only found this through sheer luck (going for an achievement).

But sometimes stab session gives you a parallel circles, i.e. more than one circle at a time. Don't know how it happens, I guess it's a bug.

This is what I was talking about. I believ stabs occur when:
1.) Perfect parry last hit of combo
2.) Interrupt step back
3.) At the end of certain combos, if parried, you automatically get stabs

If two of these ^ occur at the same time, then you get the "double stabs".
i.e., 3. and 1. can occur at the same time. The game gives you one circle set for doing 1.) and one set for doing 3.)

Stabs are iffy. I am not saying this is how it works, but I believe this is how it works. So this is open for debate

[gr00veh0lmes]

These are my observations regarding parallel stab circles.

1, they are not a bug.

2, they are dependant on length of enemy attack (more than 6 - 8 attacks, I've not properly quantified this yet)

3, they are dependant on scoring at least 2 perfect parries during the enemy attack.

4, they are dependant on not incurring damage during the enemy attack.

5, you must break the enemy attack on a perfect parry.

[=Silver=]

Interesting theory, ckd0214, but you don't get twice as many circles as you would if this theory was right. "Parallel" session has approx the same stabs quantity as "Consecutive" one.

[=Silver=]

These are my observations regarding parallel stab circles.

1, they are not a bug.

2, they are dependant on length of enemy attack (more than 6 - 8 attacks, I've not properly quantified this yet)

3, they are dependant on scoring at least 2 perfect parries during the enemy attack.

4, they are dependant on not incurring damage during the enemy attack.

5, you must break the enemy attack on a perfect parry.

Is it necessary and sufficient for parallel session, did you check it consistently?

[gr00veh0lmes]

No, not consistently, but every time I've had the paralell session, all the criteria I mentioned had been satisfied. At the moment it's a working hypothesis .

There are just so many variables that lead up to a break, I'm finding it really hard to catalogue. I'll give you 2 examples of where I'm running into trouble.

1. A perfect parry has the same effect as a hex TB+1 gem, but do perfect parries stack in an extended Titan attack. (I'm such a poet! )

2. What role (if any) do 'Great' parries have? Do they stack? Does 3 GP ＝ 1 PP?

Could you help a brother out ＝Silver＝?

[=Silver=]

Let's try these hypotheses...

[gr00veh0lmes]

I would advise fighting without a TB+ gem, it makes the results easier to quantify. Perfect parry break gems are also unhelpful in this situation.

As an aside, the +1 and +2 on a TB gem refer to extra hits you can score during the fight, +1 ＝ simple hit, +2 ＝ combo hit (not ultra).

[Warlocklord]

I have a few questions, I was wondering how you can determine the length of the hit window, I've read the guide and other comments and I'm still confused. I can't tell the difference between the short hit window and the longer ones. Also, why is it that when I stab the dizzy icon comes up, am I doing something wrong. It seems like almost every time I have a stab opportunity I get dizzy. Lastly, I'm staying in OG are dual weapons viable or should I switch to heavy weapons?

Thanks,

War.

[=Silver=]

I have a few questions, I was wondering how you can determine the length of the hit window, I've read the guide and other comments and I'm still confused. I can't tell the difference between the short hit window and the longer ones. Also, why is it that when I stab the dizzy icon comes up, am I doing something wrong. It seems like almost every time I have a stab opportunity I get dizzy. Lastly, I'm staying in OG are dual weapons viable or should I switch to heavy weapons?

Thanks,

War.

See 1.3 and 2.1.2
Tell me if you'd still have questions

Peace

[csmok1]

Hi Sliver, finally I got my hands on parry all attack gem, and I tried it on our cute puppy Lupun. Seems that the gem doesn't work on Lupun's stepbacks...... @_@"

[=Silver=]

Are you sure?

This would mean that on higher Lupun's-lvl-to-your-stats ratio (close to "one-hit dead') it'd become a "wheel of fortune fight"... Depending on the probability that Lupun launches all three stepbacks one after another, or in short period of time, which is not sufficient for super/magic to regen.

[csmok1]

Yup, now every time I meet Lupun I'll try the gem to reconfirm my doubt, but so far @_@ can anyone help to test on this as well?

[Silversabeast]

Here is my short little guide on how to counter magic attacks. I can make gifs of all enemies with magic attacks if you want me to, but I think the GK will suffice.

SAB Magic Counter Technique

Hi all, this is my method to counter enemy magic attacks. (Please note that while the GIF’s in this guide are the god king, the magic attacks work exactly the same for all other enemies that use them.)

Here’s the basic idea behind this technique: To give enough time to dodge all the magic attacks without running into dodge doom.

The method to do this is simple. Parry the first attack, and dodge all the next. This will give you enough time to dodge all the next attacks. Be it one, two, etc. (Although you may need to parry the downward slash after the magic attacks in severe cases.)

Examples of this method are shown below:







P.S. I dont know how to rotate gifs...if you can tell me, I can rotate them...

[Farfield]

Here is my short little guide on how to counter magic attacks. I can make gifs of all enemies with magic attacks if you want me to, but I think the GK will suffice.

SAB Magic Counter Technique

Hi all, this is my method to counter enemy magic attacks. (Please note that while the GIF’s in this guide are the god king, the magic attacks work exactly the same for all other enemies that use them.)

Here’s the basic idea behind this technique: To give enough time to dodge all the magic attacks without running into dodge doom.

The method to do this is simple. Parry the first attack, and dodge all the next. This will give you enough time to dodge all the next attacks. Be it one, two, etc. (Although you may need to parry the downward slash after the magic attacks in severe cases.)

Examples of this method are shown below:







P.S. I dont know how to rotate gifs...if you can tell me, I can rotate them...

Great i'll give it a shoot and hope i finally crack that bastard

[Aussi3]

Here is my short little guide on how to counter magic attacks. I can make gifs of all enemies with magic attacks if you want me to, but I think the GK will suffice.

SAB Magic Counter Technique

Hi all, this is my method to counter enemy magic attacks. (Please note that while the GIF’s in this guide are the god king, the magic attacks work exactly the same for all other enemies that use them.)

Here’s the basic idea behind this technique: To give enough time to dodge all the magic attacks without running into dodge doom.

The method to do this is simple. Parry the first attack, and dodge all the next. This will give you enough time to dodge all the next attacks. Be it one, two, etc. (Although you may need to parry the downward slash after the magic attacks in severe cases.)

Examples of this method are shown below:

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/3204/image1xik.gif

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/7105/image1uu.gif

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/3724/imageeg.gif

P.S. I dont know how to rotate gifs...if you can tell me, I can rotate them...

Couldn't you do it on your screen recorder so it's easier to see?

[=Silver=]

You may do it with display recorder and upload these vids to YouTube. I'll take them and make gifs myself.

See my last post in the GK Club thread

[Silversabeast]

Couldn't you do it on your screen recorder so it's easier to see?

Well my iPads not jailbroken. And I don't plan on JBing it.

[Aussi3]

Well my iPads not jailbroken. And I don't plan on JBing it.

Do it on your device that is Jail broken?

[Silversabeast]

Do it on your device that is Jail broken?

It is incredibly laggy, I don't think it's even worth it.