Inconsistency?

[grantnoe]

Besides all of the minor inconsistencies...

Kuuth stated that deathless never age. This is super cool and all but... if deathless don't age, how was Ausar able to be reborn as a baby and grow into a man each rebirth?

[The Brain]

They probably don't age after a certain physical age.

[RicochetOrange]

Or they never get physically 'weak' with old age. Deathless (for the most part) never reveal their real faces or bodies.

Of course, I could be wrong but IDK.

[grantnoe]

Hm that's viable Ricochet. But then if they do not die or grow weaker as they get old, how did the Siris of that generation pass away?

Erm "that generation" ^^ being the one in which he had a son (Archarin) and had a wife and didn't go to fight Raidriar.

[RicochetOrange]

Could die for some other reason?

Or, a Deathless isn't a full Deathless unless something... happens to them? In the book it seemed like that they 'weren't a Deathless' so to speak until he regained his memories of being alive? IDK how that works lol.

[Silversabeast]

Could die for some other reason?

Or, a Deathless isn't a full Deathless unless something... happens to them? In the book it seemed like that they 'weren't a Deathless' so to speak until he regained his memories of being alive? IDK how that works lol.

Yeah radriar says in IB1 that he used to be mortal

[grantnoe]

Yeah radriar says in IB1 that he used to be mortal

Technically weren't they all mortal at one time? The process of becoming a deathless is still unclear. Ausar was a full deathless at that time, because we know that he was a full deathless when he had his memory. So he would have retained that full deathless status throughout all his rebirths. I think the rebirths as a man versus a child has something to do with memory, and not the status as a deathless.

I think I know why he only regains memories when he is reborn as a man: a baby cannot nurture memories. Thus it must make memories of its own. A baby couldn't handle the memories of thousands of years worth of information with an under-developed brain. It is only logical that memories are only resurrected when a deathless is reborn as an adult.

So still I am wondering why he can age, yet other deathless cannot. Perhaps it has something to do with being born as a child? I think it requires something different with the Q.I.P.

So here is my Q.I.P theory:

It is not a code that resembles physical features, but rather personality features. Every person has a Q.I.P. (deathless and non-deathless). The distinction is that they deathless have through some process attached a "tag" to the beginning of their Q.I.P. This tag has a 2 known things: A feature similar to an IP address, and a "status."

The IP address is what makes them immortal. Without this, the Q.I.P. could not be transferred. Then I think the status is a short code that defines the state of the bud (body of the Q.I.P.). If the state is a baby, the status tells the brain not to read the Q.I.P. Thus it would allow for normal characteristics like aging, and forming a new memory. If the status reads the bud as an adult, it recognizes that the brain can handle the "download" or "transfer," and so it proceeds to relay the Q.I.P. to the brain. That allows the brain to see past memories, and to make the necessary physical chemical changes to make a body not age, etc.

That is where the IB jumps in. It erases the tag at the front of the Q.I.P., and thus creates a "true death." But as another thread said, the IB must have been created for the sole purpose of consuming the Q.I.P. of Ausar to free him from the VoT:

http://forums.epicgames.com/threads/...de-figured-out

The thread comes up with several theories as to why this is, but I am a skeptic. I am still searching for a more viable answer.

That is my idea of the Q.I.P., and perhaps can explain this inconsistency. Thoughts? Critiques?

[synge32]

Thought the exact same, not to mention that only Deathless can use the healing ring, or any other ring, yet Siris ages 6 months when he uses it! Not to mention, if they don't need food, why does Siris crave everberry pie and peach cobbler??

A lame explanation is that, because Kuuth was prompted by Raidrair, before Siris came back, Kuuth is lying as his goal is to stall Siris.

But remember, as lame as TEL is, he has alot of powers that we don't really understand yet (he can erase people memories and replace them, he can mutate into any form, rock, wood, dirt, he also healed ISA from sure death by doing some quick surgery)

Also, the QIP is defintaly more science that magic, like Grant said, just take your soul and put it on a flashdrive and transport it to another computer,, anyways, my guess is that the ability to not age and not eat is a CHOICE, that deathless make. If they know the science to transport their memories to a new body, I'm sure they have figured out how to stop cell degeneration and hunger, however, they have to actively be involved in that decision. Since Siris does not know that he is deathless, he does not know the steps he must take to stop his body from aging and being hungry

Even if I'm wrong about that, and part of being a deathless is automatically not aging or needing to eat, then maybe TEL does something to Ausar's baby bud's that make him age and be hungry, therefore, he will never know his true identity.

[grantnoe]

Thought the exact same, not to mention that only Deathless can use the healing ring, or any other ring, yet Siris ages 6 months when he uses it! Not to mention, if they don't need food, why does Siris crave everberry pie and peach cobbler??

A lame explanation is that, because Kuuth was prompted by Raidrair, before Siris came back, Kuuth is lying as his goal is to stall Siris.

But remember, as lame as TEL is, he has alot of powers that we don't really understand yet (he can erase people memories and replace them, he can mutate into any form, rock, wood, dirt, he also healed ISA from sure death by doing some quick surgery)

Also, the QIP is defintaly more science that magic, like Grant said, just take your soul and put it on a flashdrive and transport it to another computer,, anyways, my guess is that the ability to not age and not eat is a CHOICE, that deathless make. If they know the science to transport their memories to a new body, I'm sure they have figured out how to stop cell degeneration and hunger, however, they have to actively be involved in that decision. Since Siris does not know that he is deathless, he does not know the steps he must take to stop his body from aging and being hungry

Even if I'm wrong about that, and part of being a deathless is automatically not aging or needing to eat, then maybe TEL does something to Ausar's baby bud's that make him age and be hungry, therefore, he will never know his true identity.

All viable explanations to me! I am hoping more will be revealed in class mobs, dungeons, and future updates. I also hope that these inconsistencies actually have a reason and are not actually flaws- that would be unfortunate. Sometimes I think us fans here on the forum ponder more of the storyline than the makers of the storyline do

[synge32]

All viable explanations to me! I am hoping more will be revealed in class mobs, dungeons, and future updates. I also hope that these inconsistencies actually have a reason and are not actually flaws- that would be unfortunate. Sometimes I think us fans here on the forum ponder more of the storyline than the makers of the storyline do

There is and interview on Youtube with Sanderson where he states that he was excited about the challenge of creating his own story and having to explain the actions that occurred in IB1, before he was involved. I know he's very well respected in this genre, so I'm sure he was well aware that, when having Kuuth explain that deathless do not age, we would all (after reading the whole book) immediately wonder why Siris ages.

This was intentional, as the reader does not yet realize that Siris is an immortal, and this adds to the belief that he is mortal. My point is, Sanderson would be well aware of the paradox that he had just created, if there was no valid explanation to Siris' aging

The "aging" explantion is to forward to be a flaw, it would really discredit Sanderson as an author. (Can you imagine that after the book was published, he then realizes that he can't explain how Siris ages!)

Minor inconsistiences are a given, such as, the infinity blade somehow gets a gold stripe in IB2, that was not on it in IB1. But that's fine, as long as it's minor stuff, it generally makes the story better, as long as we don't get something ridicoulos like Siris waking up in Drems Maw and "It was all just a dream!!" let's restart the whole story!

[synge32]

All viable explanations to me! I am hoping more will be revealed in class mobs, dungeons, and future updates. I also hope that these inconsistencies actually have a reason and are not actually flaws- that would be unfortunate. Sometimes I think us fans here on the forum ponder more of the storyline than the makers of the storyline do

There is and interview on Youtube with Sanderson where he states that he was excited about the challenge of creating his own story and having to explain the actions that occurred in IB1, before he was involved. I know he's very well respected in this genre, so I'm sure he was well aware that, when having Kuuth explain that deathless do not age, we would all (after reading the whole book) immediately wonder why Siris ages.

This was intentional, as the reader does not yet realize that Siris is an immortal, and this adds to the belief that he is mortal. My point is, Sanderson would be well aware of the paradox that he had just created, if there was no valid explanation to Siris' aging

The "aging" explantion is to forward to be a flaw, it would really discredit Sanderson as an author. (Can you imagine that after the book was published, he then realizes that he can't explain how Siris ages!)

Minor inconsistiences are a given, such as, the infinity blade somehow gets a gold stripe in IB2, that was not on it in IB1. But that's fine, as long as it's minor stuff, it generally makes the story better, as long as we don't get something ridicoulos like Siris waking up in Drems Maw and "It was all just a dream!!" let's restart the whole story!

[grantnoe]

There is and interview on Youtube with Sanderson where he states that he was excited about the challenge of creating his own story and having to explain the actions that occurred in IB1, before he was involved. I know he's very well respected in this genre, so I'm sure he was well aware that, when having Kuuth explain that deathless do not age, we would all (after reading the whole book) immediately wonder why Siris ages.

This was intentional, as the reader does not yet realize that Siris is an immortal, and this adds to the belief that he is mortal. My point is, Sanderson would be well aware of the paradox that he had just created, if there was no valid explanation to Siris' aging

The "aging" explantion is to forward to be a flaw, it would really discredit Sanderson as an author. (Can you imagine that after the book was published, he then realizes that he can't explain how Siris ages!)

Minor inconsistiences are a given, such as, the infinity blade somehow gets a gold stripe in IB2, that was not on it in IB1. But that's fine, as long as it's minor stuff, it generally makes the story better, as long as we don't get something ridicoulos like Siris waking up in Drems Maw and "It was all just a dream!!" let's restart the whole story!

Hahaha that would kill me. Agreed!

[bug7897]

Could die for some other reason?

Or, a Deathless isn't a full Deathless unless something... happens to them? In the book it seemed like that they 'weren't a Deathless' so to speak until he regained his memories of being alive? IDK how that works lol.

Yeah because Siris used that fighting technique on the 7 Daerils after Isa was about to mention something about him being Deathless. Maybe as soon as recognition occurs he fully becomes one. But it is true that in past Rebirths Siris has grown old and died naturally. This has happened in both Archarin's birth and others, as mentioned by TEL.

[raygrid]

Yeah because Siris used that fighting technique on the 7 Daerils after Isa was about to mention something about him being Deathless. Maybe as soon as recognition occurs he fully becomes one. But it is true that in past Rebirths Siris has grown old and died naturally. This has happened in both Archarin's birth and others, as mentioned by TEL.

First, i don't remember anything about Siris aging in the book - not saying it isn't there, I just don't remember it. I've been meaning to read it again, so I guess I'll do that next weekend.

Still, it is possible that aging was something TEL did somehow. He may have modified Siris' DNA so that he would age, or depending on how the new body was created/selected it may be a function of how his QIP was put into the body. For example, if a baby was used (not politically correct) or say some sort of clone or genetically altered bio matter it may be that Siris' is Deathless but his body is not immortal. You can be immortal and not Deathless (Archivist, Bill, etc) so why not Deathless but not immortal (body wise)?

I tend to think that the Deathless found out how to transfer their QIP to a new body and in doing so came up with a process for creating 'buds'. These buds are not their original birth bodies. They may be fabricated from biological matter or they may be clones of their birth bodies. I kinda like the idea that there are only a few bud 'models' and that under their masks many of the deathless look identical. Only their QIP is unique. Think skin job Cylons. That could be part of why they wear masks. Not just so that the Daidrils can't see the face or their gods, but also so that the secret that there are only a few deathless 'models' doesn't get out.

[ElPared]

I believe this is the advantage of using a bud rebirth as opposed to a "phoneix chamber" rebirth. In addition to being fully developed, the buds can also be given whatever medical treatments are required to make them Immortal, where with a phoenix rebirth (being reborn as a child) these procedures have to be done when the phoenix has reached maturity or they'll be "immortal" as an 8 year old or something.

obviously since Siris was reborn into a primitive village, they didn't have the technology to perform this procedure and consequently Siris aged normally.

I do very vaguely remember TEL saying something about having to explain to the villagers how the Siris that had a wife and kid "died" though. I can't quite remember when in the book though.

I love raygrid's idea that all the deathless look the same which is why they modulate their voices and wear masks haha