CTF-Botanic - Version 1.0

[Sonic-len]

This is my first release that is final - this map has been tested and seems to work ok. One or two gripes with tiny bits of geometry to get stcuk in, and one texture looks unlit but apart from that all seems good. Plus had beta testing feedback and fixed a bunch of stuff

Map name:
Botanic

Map Type:
Capture the Flag

Version:
UT3 version 2.1 (with Titan pack installed) - recooked for the latest version.

Description:

A map that represents a laboratory style visual theme set in the future, where plants and vegetation are being grown and cultivated. An outside view of the map represents a smog filled urban cityscape to counter the visual sci-fi/botanical theme that is evident in this map.

More to come people - more to come But 1st I'm gonna catch up on a few games.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6060022/Bota...ic_LOC_int.zip

Download contains the map file (with loc and ini) plus the screenshots and the readme.

Below are a few screenshots:-
















Feedback please!!

[Private Tux]

Well, I didn't tried the 'Beta' version of this map first before I hoped that it is final now, giving a hard spent time to show up with. Guess I'm downloading this map on 'Final' right now and make a short review in a flow. And good screenies mate.

[Sonic-len]

If anyone has tried this map then let me know your thoughts and what you think about it - rate if possible as I will use this as a learning experience for the next one I make.
would be good to know what people think.
It seems over 100 people have viewed this so it would be good to know who downloaded and played as it works now - hoping to get it on some servers out there

[Bl!tz~]

hey mate, sorry for the late feedback(RL surbooking)...


ur style is nice and original, especially on the meshing/ texturing sides. cool lil color variations under the flag on the bases

the music fits like a glove and the vegetals are superbs

good job on thoses glasses with their custom look,( i wish u had make em breakable to short the distances on this huge map :





the conveyor gives a nice touch but i feel really weird to not be mooved by it:




the long distances snipers and shock addicts will probably like thoses long corridors,though i think thoses lil SM adds break the flow and i find me blocked there several times while firing and walking backwards, not sure if they need collision (especially the bottom part, perhaps a custom BV can do it):



this water effect is awesome visually but perhaps can u lower it because it give the feeling that the floor is "distorded"...is it? :



on a more global side i ll talk about what i liked less to try to help you:

-to much aircontrol, gives weird feeling while using the jumppads
-not enough health in some areas and i thing u could add some classical health 25pts instead of using thoses long 5pts alignements
-the arrows: it could be a nice idea to use em to show where is the flag
-layout: i was lost each time i grabbed the flag....but my old head probably is guilty ...the map is huge and very difficult to memorize( perhaps can u add more access between the different levels)
-weapons: it take to long to pick weapons , perhaps can u place em closer to respawn points &add some more along the map
-too much colored and blinking things everywhere, it disturb a lot visually (so many bright things with lot of colors help probably to feel lost)+ i was missing some darkness...so brighty!

tbh my main grippe (and only serious one in fact ) was to not be abble to memorize the map and to always feel lost (mainly between the different levels) i was constantly running to the bases on the wrong levels and i was often going back on my way.i bet that after a few games u re abble to get familiar to the map...but after two matches i wasnt (my son had nice laught while watching me raging on that...he was more successfull but flopped so many jumppads that he finally stopped laughing too...muhahaha

thx for sharing this nice map, keep up the good work mate , the map dont need a lot of changes to be more fun , just some tweakings here or there

edit: ...5 stars from me for the hard work and nice athmo^^ for a first final it s in the target, congratz!

[Sonic-len]

hi blitz!

Thanks for the feedback on the map and sorry it has taken so long to get back to you!

So to answer your questions:
1) Aircontrol - what exactly are the issues of control here?The only place where there are jumppads are in the central atrium, and they need to be the way they are so people can get from the bottom to the top quickly and easily - especially if they need to get to the top level to capture the opponents' flag. there shouldn't be any control apart form the guided path of the jumppad which has been pathnoded in.
2)I need to updatewith more health and better place this - I am going to get onto this in a few weeks and correct.
3)the arrows, if you follow them closely, are very intricately placed to direct you towards the flag. the complexity of the map means that some can feel that they direct you in one way, and then suddenly you are being asked to back track on yourself. for example where the see through floors are with the excalators, you may be guided into this room via the arrows, but there are arrows on the side glass that will put up or down (indicating to go up or down the escalator). If you miss these and get to the other side of the room, arrows tell you to back up. Again it is more clear as you learn the map. With more experience I would have laid it out differently and it is further complicated by the fact it started life as a DM. but I kept it as is because from time to time, the see through floors reveal who is going for your flag/base and you can back tgrack to 'deny' them with enough players (24) this becomes clear.
4)I pretty much answer this above, which is why subsequent plays offer a learning of the map. agaion with the right number of players, the level of circulation starts to show through offering you multiple avenues to get away fromt he enemy and try and different path to the other base - the arrows are crucila here - keep an eye for this but also why the map has so many red and blue references in both teh environment, and lights as well as the assets. I can show you some time if you want to play in the map with me Adding further acces breaks the flow and that is why the lower levels are there with the shower units and the underground tunnels with more vegeation in the side compartments.
5)Agreed, I did wnat to add them throughout the map evenly encouraging use of the full map but deciding not to include these at each base was a bad idea - I will correct this as well as rebalance weapon and ammo placement when I go back to it in a few weeks.
6) Funny one this - it was much darker but most feedback came away saying it needed to be lighter (by games industry level designers - same thing with the flow and the ideas to add refs for where they were, although it was up to me to decide how to do this hence the extensive use of arrows and the red/blue visuals throughout each base.
so I reckon I will keep as is otherwise no-one will be happy - but appreciate the shine of the level may not be to your tastes exactly

any other ideas for tweaks?

If anyone else downloaded and tried this map (as well as giving it time - it does need this) Please let me know know by posting here so that I can provide appropriate corrections and ustilise this knowledge for my next one.

[Sonic-len]

I meant to add that I will add blocking volumes to the areas that you got stuck in - I thought the screen were no collision to solve this but I guess not - blocking volumes also need to be added.

I will also stop the animated texture on the escalators - no-one likes this and it needs changing

As for the breakable glass - how could I do this? It COULD potentially allow players to break glass to build 'shortcuts' that would add a great dynamic element to the map, and add jumppads to get back up when you want - although this would look weird untilt he glass was broken!

I wonder if I could add a hud element aand script something in that shows a red or blue outline of the map on screen through the geometry so people find it easier to orientate themselves towards the flag if they do get lost, that would eliminate the frustration - sort of like the below screen:

It's taken from DE:Human Revolution where you can see through walls - I would have to add some kind of effect which I could learn to create - just some animated transparent material that covers the outline of the flag - might look a bit weird at first but would solve the issue around the complexity of the map!

[SkaarjMaster]

I liked the robots, banners, lights, sounds, moving things and central biodome/atrium area. This needs more health, but I like the rest of the pickups and locations. The air control I believe is the fans blowing in the central area that kinda mess you up every now and then if you want to stay on top, but just jump to get out of their way. My bots can't defend at all and the other bots aren't too bright either. There needs to be something directing you better or maybe we just need to study the layout more. I saw the arrows and they direct you correctly for the most part, but I still got lost a few times; it's up and over on the way there or over and down on the way back, but you still don't seem to be directed to where you need to go.

[FreakinMeany]

FYI: In case the dropbox link ever goes bad -- Soniclen also submitted this to Mapraider and it's on our three mirrors:

http://www.mapraider.com/maps/?fileid=5776

[Sonic-len]

I liked the robots, banners, lights, sounds, moving things and central biodome/atrium area. This needs more health, but I like the rest of the pickups and locations. The air control I believe is the fans blowing in the central area that kinda mess you up every now and then if you want to stay on top, but just jump to get out of their way. My bots can't defend at all and the other bots aren't too bright either. There needs to be something directing you better or maybe we just need to study the layout more. I saw the arrows and they direct you correctly for the most part, but I still got lost a few times; it's up and over on the way there or over and down on the way back, but you still don't seem to be directed to where you need to go.

Hi skaarjMaster,

thanks for the feedback on the map.

I do intend to make some changes to make it more appealing and playable to people based on their thoughts but am just trying to get through a few games first so maybe a little while before I do

Firstly, I must admit I don't really understand the aircontrol issue that people are having, in the sense that I clearly don't have the same level of understanding of this function in UT3 compared to other mappers.
When people are troubled by the aircontrol, is this that it is too limiting on how much you can move in the air when the jumppad shoots you up to one of the higher levels? Or that you don't have enough? Do the fans actually affect the air control as I only put them in there as stock assets for visual effect - is there some kind of scripted element attached to them that I was unaware of?
When setting these up, I did assign the necessary pathnodes to ensure that people could get from the bottom of the atrium to the top pretty quickly. This also feeds into the idea that the flag is at the bottom on one end while the opposing team's flag will be on the top floor at the eother end. along with the underground tunnels and escalators, this offers another route to follow. Again is becomes clear as people get used to the map (thus encouraging replayability if the map has depth which is what I was looking for).
I need to get some help on this as I think I might be missing something technically.

As for the arrows, you are right in that these are set up to direct you. Perhaps the nature of the arrows is too detailed, thus adding to the confusion. I added all these arrows so that there were multiple indications as to where you need to be going in order to get to the oppositions flag. the problem is that there are areas where the map has complete circular avenues on each side of rhe map - it's not a complete stright route from one to the other - so this was the best I could do after testing with others although I may cut down the number of arrows to give a more generalised sense of direction as there are areas where it works and areas where it doesn't (primarily in the rooms with the glass floors actually - maybe I can add some kind fo VFX that just says GO DOWN - maybe create a texture and put on a big screen and attache this to the side glass panelling).
This started life as a large scale DM map - and I then modified it to have opposite ends for a CTF map. that's the core issue and something I won;t repeat on my next one but you live and learn

One of the things about this map is that due to the number of side routes and such you can take, it doesn allow you to try and get away from the opposition fast, at which point you can use the arrows to get your bearing back and try to get back to your base - plus the red and blue references everywhere let you know when you are in the oppositions base. I don't have them in the same floor otherwsie 2/3rds of the map gets circumvented.

Have people found over subsequent playthroughs that the map starts to 'click'? I only ask as I nearly thre it out until a couple of professional designers told me that with these changes, the map starts to work aftera few playthroughs but it does feel like while people think it looks decent with good ideas, trying to orientate it is a significant challenge.

does anyone have this map on their own hosted games? Had fun with it? any more feedback.

Thanks a lot for this so far - very useful and if you all have more ideas on what you would do (as I am still and alwasy learning) then don't be shy

[SkaarjMaster]

I'm not sure about the air control issues either, but I just noticed a slight breeze near the fans it seemed like and I just forced my player back on track with no problems; I just found it slightly annoying and almost cute, but not enough to change as I saw.
EDIT: just noticed my problem seems to be something on the floor stopping you from walking/running and making a turn just inside the big atrium and not air control at all (fix this and this issue is gone for me; you'll have to PM Bl!tz~ about what he's talking about exactly).

The arrows is something you probably need to check yourself or get a few people to help you with. Maybe only moving a few or them and maybe adding a couple would be all that it would take. Don't change the layout as people really need to study the map and play it more and it will click with them. I only played it 3 times, so I guess that wasn't enough. I like maps that are hard to figure out like Darjii for UT (remember that one?), so that's part of the draw for a map like this one and it gets people thinking and the arrows help a lot. Maybe I'll give this a few more spins and see where arrows can be added or moved (and see if I can describe it in enough detail). Good luck!

[Bl!tz~]

yo,

i ve not check in details what seetings u used for ur jumppads but my feeling was to have way to much aircontrol (there s a specific setting in ur jumpad properties to set that value, normaly default setting is ok if u dont need aircontrol for a special reason):
-the main function of a jumpad is to travel u from "a" to "b" choosen points, if u use it without touching movement keys it should be accurate, adding aircontrol allow u to land near"b" point (this is good for example to not land on the head of another player...
more u ll add aircontrol more u ll be abble to control ur fly and to land far from "b"...dunno for others but i always still have my fingers on the direction keys and with ur "aircontrol settings" even with a very sweet touching on any directionnal key the direction change is too big, it give u the feeling to use a jetpack....UT3 use a weird flying way (low grav and too much aircontrol drives often to "unnatural movement feeling, i mean it s like if u can change direction and dance from right to left while falling....absolutly not reallistic....i always try to stay under this limit by reducing aircontrol & lowgrav setting till it become more natural)
landing on the edge of something is not easy if u have lot of aircontrol , it like landing a plane ...possible of course but require training and to be used to the map
what i wanted to tell with arrows direction and the feeling to be lost is on the same way: having a map "too specific" require hours trainning and disavantage players who discover the map, UT3 have so many custom maps that imho it s more fair to install a map that doesnt disavantage anyone and that is easy to memorize and play, history prooved that the more played maps are often the more simple ones (layout)
trying to make something too technical is risky on the playability
visually ur map is superb and trying to make it more playable is not that hard: more facility to go from one base to the other, more easy to localisate urself, less aircontrol to miss less landings while using jumppads, more ways to grab a weapon....and more health of course
i m mainly a DM player and a simple layout maps CTF player so i always feel weird while trying to help on this kind of maps, i hope i m not too wrong (i m sure others will correct me if i am ) + all this belong to personnal tastes and some may find it nice as it is and find my ideas stupid
u ll find answers to ur questions mate but for sure u ll find as many answers as players....i hope this can help a lil
sorry again for the delay to answer....and GL