Two sides of the paradigm. A suggestion that might work.

[Terra D Serph]

Before I go on with this, I'd like to point out that I'm not angry at the game, I'm not irritated by most of the mechanics, and I'm not trolling. I am being completely serious; please take my thread seriously before issuing your two-cents. I hold everyone's opinions in this thread the same, unless you say something that is intolerable. Post your opinions in a civil manner and wait for a response in a similar manner. If someone trolls, don't take the bait. Refrain from cursing as much as possible, please. And above all, stay mature and on topic as much as possible. If this thread is too long for you to take the time to read, then this isn't the right place for you. In advance I'd like to thank you for reading this. It's somewhat long, but it's not a dry thread, in my opinion.


The beginning of this thread is my conclusion from the results I took after just playing this game, reading up on the forums, and getting a general feeling from the community. If you'd rather skip that, then go down until the red font.

Alright, after careful analysis of many videos, commentaries, gameplays, as well as my own gameplays, I've come to an understanding of what this split with the community is really about. I'll try to make this as non-bias as possible, and only point out flaws within each group that makes them dislike or even hate each other.

It's not so much about the rifles and shotguns as it is with the power of stopping power.

You see, when Gears 2 introduced stopping power, it didn't have as major an effect as it did with Gears 3. That and client-side hit-detection wasn't as good in Gears 2 as it is in Gears 3. We all know that in Gears 3, no matter what direction you're facing, when you are rushing a rifle-user with any weapon, your mobility is extremely hindered. Zeta has removed stopping power, as well as the perfect active reload damage boost(or at least 90% of it. It's hard to judge the damage boost, if any, while in the middle of heavy fire).

Here are the 2 sides we think about when we encounter people on the forums or in games, not counting power weapons. I'll label them "pro-rifle" and "pro-gnasher," to reduce any sort of trolling and flaming that comes with "lancer-prostitutes" and "gnasher-prostitutes/rushers."

• The pro-rifle are for stopping power. They believe it helps them stop rushing, and believe if you're smart enough about it, you can get around it via cover, wall bouncing, and strafing. They aren't against pro-gnasher necessarily, but they believe that having a game with no stopping power creates a Gears 1 scenario, where anyone who isn't nearly perfect with the gnasher will consistently lose, each time, every time.
• The pro-gnasher are against stopping power. They believe it hinders their mobility too much, and that the increased damage boost to every weapon makes stopping power a superfluous(or "over-the-top") mechanic that renders any sort of push(against a team, of course) pointless. They are disappointed with how, not that they can't rush whenever they want, but that they can't successfully push with any weapon once a team has set up perfectly, with little-to-no weaknesses in their base.

• The pro-rifle are happy about stopping power, because the pro-gnasher guys can't just run willy-nilly and shotgun you down after you've pumped almost 70% of a lancer clip into his gut.
• The pro-gnasher have probably already played Zeta love it because they are given their mobility back, while still being able to get downed by a smart team, regardless of the weapon

Now, while I believe that the rifles were indeed under-powered and almost useless in the previous two games, that they needed a boost, I don't believe that stopping power should have increased to the amount that it has. Was Epic not putting in client-side hit-detection as a factor when they chose to make it this intense? That's a possibility, but I won't lean towards one side or another.

Hopefully we can stop saying "gnasher-prostitute" and "rifle-cat" to each other now, now that we(might) understand a bit more about what is really going on.

If you decided to skip to the bottom, here's the section you should read.

While I can't force you all to say these things, or not say, in this case, I would highly recommend and plead that you don't use phrases such as "The gnasher made Gears," "Adapt," or any number of hateful messages that imply that you are better than someone, or that this thread is pointless because it's long. I took a lot of time to write this, don't bash it. I don't care if you're a gears-god or if you picked up the game a second ago, if your attitude isn't tolerable to anyone, it makes you not appear to be civil, but more of a close-minded-jerk than anything.


Here is my suggestion:
Instead of removing stopping power, why not change the way the mechanic works? Similar to the ink-grenade, I feel that the mechanics of stopping power have lost much of what they were intended to be. Stopping power was implemented to stop Gears of War from becoming a single-gun game.
I don't know if any of you have noticed, but if you are moving towards an enemy, be it a straight bee-line towards your foe or a very elaborate method, you will get effected by stopping power the same way.

In my opinion, I believe that it would be better to reduce stopping power as it is, and to decrease the intensity of it depending on what degree you're facing your opponent. I believe some experimentation would be necessary to implement this correctly, but I think it would prove to be a better solution to the way we have things right now. I'll explain:

• When facing, running, or rolling directly at an opponent, stopping power is in full effect(or the slightly less powerful version I would consider).
• When looking away, running, or rolling in a different direction, stopping power has a gradually lessened effect than its full-force brethren. Facing at an 80 degree angle to your opponent would have tremendously less impact than facing 10 degrees away.

I think this would be a better solution, rather than to remove stopping power completely. Stopping power needs to be put back in its place as a mindless-rushing-prevention, but at the same time I think someone should work for their kill, on both sides. Someone shouldn't have the power to mindlessly run on a map with one gun and kill everyone, and someone shouldn't be able to sit up on the top of a hill behind cover and down you before you can get close to them, unless they had help from someone else.

I'll have a poll up shortly. Thanks again for taking the time to read my thread, I hope it becomes a civil debate instead of a childish argument thread. I could use less infractions.

[GoRz]

i shall christen this thread with a TL;DR

the part i did read, was basically that you dont like stopping power and want to tone it down...

but if you think about it, the only weapon with stopping power is the lancer, and even then its only effective at stopping someone out in the open, with no cover withing rolling distance, and even then you have to lead your shots... i mean, i dont go rushing in most of the time, thats how you die

and when i am using a lancer, i make sure to utilize it's stopping power and i always active reload the lancer, its the only way to quickly ensure a kill

with the new ZETA mode, there is no more stopping power or active reloads, so basically you got what you wanted in this playlist

[Terra D Serph]

i shall christen this thread with a TL;DR

the part i did read, was basically that you dont like stopping power and want to tone it down...

but if you think about it, the only weapon with stopping power is the lancer, and even then its only effective at stopping someone out in the open, with no cover withing rolling distance, and even then you have to lead your shots... i mean, i dont go rushing in most of the time, thats how you die

and when i am using a lancer, i make sure to utilize it's stopping power and i always active reload the lancer, its the only way to quickly ensure a kill

with the new ZETA mode, there is no more stopping power or active reloads, so basically you got what you wanted in this playlist

I didn't state that I don't like stopping power, as you'll read in my entire thread that I don't want it gone. Please just take the time to read my thread before you start insinuating or assuming things.
All of the starting weapons have stopping power, including the pistols. I don't know where you got your information from, but the lancer isn't the only weapon with stopping power.

[Maaaaaz]

Yeah, the rifles were basically useless in the previous games, and they definitely needed a buff, but it went over the top.

-Active damage is insane
-(Generally) On servers now so there's no lagg, meaning easier aiming
-Stopping power glues you to the floor and you cannot get out alive

Those 3 put together are overkill, especially since SP stops you no matter which direction you go.
I'd say reduce it to a half of what it is now. It seems a lot, but you only need to be out of cover for a second to get downed, because of exceptionally strong rifle damage when active.

[Terra D Serph]

Yeah, the rifles were basically useless in the previous games, and they definitely needed a buff, but it went over the top.

-Active damage is insane
-(Generally) On servers now so there's no lagg, meaning easier aiming
-Stopping power glues you to the floor and you cannot get out alive

Those 3 put together are overkill, especially since SP stops you no matter which direction you go.
I'd say reduce it to a half of what it is now. It seems a lot, but you only need to be out of cover for a second to get downed, because of exceptionally strong rifle damage when active.

Yeah. I can understand why it would be this intense on a Gears 2 server, but this is Gears 3. I'm only speculating, but they may have looked at their old Gears 2 data a bit too much when they decided what should have been enhanced and what should have remained the same. I still think stopping power is a good mechanic, though, if only it could be balanced so that you had to at least try to get kills.

[emperor dogma]

I read your whole post and I have to say I agree with you completely and also people on these forums need to be more civil.

[Terra D Serph]

I read your whole post and I have to say I agree with you completely.

Cool. Thanks for reading my thread! Hopefully people will be civil about this, regardless if they agree or not. Unlike the first person who commented. :/

[emperor dogma]

Cool. Thanks for reading my thread! Hopefully people will be civil about this, regardless if they agree or not. Unlike the first person who commented. :/

I could've done with out the first part though and I saw that first reply it annoyed me.

[Terra D Serph]

I could've done with out the first part though and I saw that first reply it annoyed me.

Ah, well it was a two-in-one thread. I kind of wanted to make people understand some stuff before I went on with my suggestion. People around here tend to be so biased to one side that they forget that having an open mind might be a benefit. I was basically stating what I had found over the 10 months I had been active on the forums and the year I had been actively and somewhat competitively playing Gears 1, 2, and 3. So I guess it's compared to a scientific hypothesis, though this would be considered just a hypothesis, then.

[Terra D Serph]

Has anyone else taken the time to read this, or am I just at a loss here? I really don't think this is a very long thread, as I've seen longer threads that have over 100 comments, and I believe two pages of Karen Travis' books is longer than this. It can't be too long, can it?

[FluffyPrince]

TBDR (Too Black Didn't Read) Choose a different font. It hurts my eyes!

[Terra D Serph]

TBDR (Too Black Didn't Read) Choose a different font. It hurts my eyes!

I was changing the font color as you said this. I have terrible eyesight, so black is the easiest to read off a white background. I also explained it a bit more. Hope you read the whole thing.

[LEGI0N47]

I agree that the Stopping power should be toned down, but not removed. The idea of direction of travel is a good one because i'm tired of trying to strafe or bounce around when i get mudsucked by a retro or active lancer. Good post.

[Terra D Serph]

I agree that the Stopping power should be toned down, but not removed. The idea of direction of travel is a good one because i'm tired of trying to strafe or bounce around when i get mudsucked by a retro or active lancer. Good post.

Yeah, I've had my moments where I ran into someone with a rifle, and instead of being able to react I'd hit a wall, try to roll, and in mid-roll I'd get downed. It happens enough that I've learned not to do that anymore, but when you're not expecting it--like say in a spot that someone is camping for no apparent reason--it can get a little annoying.

[AJ Crawford]

I'm pretty much fine with it as it is. If they ever decided to change it I wouldn't be too bothered.

Nice thread. Shame about the typical first reply.

[Terra D Serph]

I'm pretty much fine with it as it is. If they ever decided to change it I wouldn't be too bothered.

Nice thread. Shame about the typical first reply.

Yeah, I'm not too bothered by it, but I think it would be a good thing to experiment, to say the least. I seriously can't believe it happened, though, even when I stated it in the beginning. lol I guess this just proves how much people actually read these before they make their statements.

[NFI]

Stopping power, in my opinion should remain on enemies running straight in, however it's effect on lateral moving enemies needs a drastic reduction, and enemies running away should not be affected.

[ChocolateBacon]

THE COLOURS... THEY'RE EVERYWHERE!

[fro]

Good thread. Zeta provides the fortunate mechanic of no stopping power, and keeps more of the fun into the game. For the actual Gears 3 gameplay, I fully support a reduction of stopping power.

Earlier today, I was slowly blindfiring a hammerburst at an opponent retro charging me at about 10 ft away and downed him with ease since he was slowed down so much. THAT is absurd. I got the kill and the whole match I was thinking to myself, "I should of been killed but the game mechanics saved me". Game mechanics should not save you when you aren't being cautious. That is one of the problems with this game.

Also, rifles weren't useless in Gears 1 or 2. They had less of an effect because of lag issues, but on host, rifles were deadly.

[NFI]

Good thread. Zeta provides the fortunate mechanic of no stopping power, and keeps more of the fun into the game. For the actual Gears 3 gameplay, I fully support a reduction of stopping power.

Earlier today, I was slowly blindfiring a hammerburst at an opponent retro charging me at about 10 ft away and downed him with ease since he was slowed down so much. THAT is absurd. I got the kill and the whole match I was thinking to myself, "I should of been killed but the game mechanics saved me". Game mechanics should not save you when you aren't being cautious. That is one of the problems with this game.

Also, rifles weren't useless in Gears 1 or 2. They had less of an effect because of lag issues, but on host, rifles were deadly.

He shouldn't be retro charging in that instance when you can see him.

[Ms Kazehana]

Stopping power, in my opinion should remain on enemies running straight in, however it's effect on lateral moving enemies needs a drastic reduction, and enemies running away should not be affected.

^^^^^^This x100^^^^^^

[fro]

He shouldn't be retro charging in that instance when you can see him.

Well another problem with this (which I didn't state in the original post) was that I had noticed him 10ft away from me. He was already charging at me beforehand.

[NFI]

Well another problem with this (which I didn't state in the original post) was that I had noticed him 10ft away from me. He was already charging at me beforehand.

He should have stopped. Either way that's a stupid gamble.

[Terra D Serph]

Stopping power, in my opinion should remain on enemies running straight in, however it's effect on lateral moving enemies needs a drastic reduction, and enemies running away should not be affected.

I think that's basically what I suggested.

THE COLOURS... THEY'RE EVERYWHERE!

Yeah I thought it would be easier to read if there was a bit of color. Am I wrong?

[fro]

He should have stopped. Either way that's a stupid gamble.

Should have, but didn't.

I should have died though. I found it very easy to down him with a slowly blindfired hammerburst.

[NFI]

I think that's basically what I suggested.



Yeah I thought it would be easier to read if there was a bit of color. Am I wrong?

Yea. I just am on an iPad, I am too lazy to edit your quote w it, so I just repeated it

[NFI]

Should have, but didn't.

I should have died though. I found it very easy to down him with a slowly blindfired hammerburst.

Right, he didn't. Like you said, the game shouldn't save you when your not being cautious, he wasn't. His risk was greater than yours.

[fro]

Right, he didn't. Like you said, the game shouldn't save you when your not being cautious, he wasn't. His risk was greater than yours.

And I should of dodged. If stopping power was reasonable at people coming straight toward you I still should of died. 10ft is a very small range.

[NFI]

And I should of dodged. If stopping power was reasonable at people coming straight toward you I still should of died. 10ft is a very small range.

I disagree. That's on him.

[fro]

I disagree. That's on him.

We see it different ways then. I don't agree with how much stopping power has at someone charging or running toward you when I'm using a hammerburst. The lancer I can basically understand. The retro...well I just don't like that gun. I just don't think the hammerburst should have that much SP nah mean?

[Terra D Serph]

Also, rifles weren't useless in Gears 1 or 2. They had less of an effect because of lag issues, but on host, rifles were deadly.

Yeah I noticed whenever I somehow got host, I would rock my lancer like no other, but during conflicts with others not on host, my lancer would prove little more than a bee-sting. Client-side hit-detection had a lot to do with that.

[Terra D Serph]

Yea. I just am on an iPad, I am too lazy to edit your quote w it, so I just repeated it

Haha, go laziness!

[ChocolateBacon]

I think that's basically what I suggested.



Yeah I thought it would be easier to read if there was a bit of color. Am I wrong?

I, personally, find it harder to read with a bunch of colours.

[Terra D Serph]

I, personally, find it harder to read with a bunch of colours.

That's true! Too many colors makes it a bit impossible to read. I'll go change my suggestion to all blue. I thought it was pretty easy to read with blue.

[DBO316]

Your thread is thought out well and has good points. Your suggestions with the stopping power is what Epic first intended if you read the section on the subject in the manual. With all the complaints the changed it and now we have something worse than before. I have been on both sided and it's gratifying if your doing the stopping but sucks when you take 2 steps in any direction and your down. The same goes with the buff of the scorcher. I have been downed and downed others in seconds of the flame touching. Epic needs to bring the balance that it had when the game was released. I loved every aspect and thought there was a good balance. I prefer the gnasher and lancer because that's what I'm used to from the previous titles, but I do use the rest of the weapons because of the effectiveness. I even found myself using the Retro as my primary weapon choice in gameplay footage for several matches because of its stopping power when I played a team that pushed a lot with gnashers and sawed offs. It was a little unfair because if I seen them I stopped them in their tracks before they got close enough to myself or teammates. I'm not against rifles or stopping power, I believe it should be put back to were it was at the start.

[DBO316]

He should have stopped. Either way that's a stupid gamble.

Not stupid because I have been Retro charged like that several times were I see them coming and i dump a couple gnasher shots into them and I still get stabbed. Same thing with chainsaw I have been updated a couple times when killing them with gnasher. Sorry this is off topic but I had to say something.

[Terra D Serph]

Your thread is thought out well and has good points. Your suggestions with the stopping power is what Epic first intended if you read the section on the subject in the manual. With all the complaints the changed it and now we have something worse than before. I have been on both sided and it's gratifying if your doing the stopping but sucks when you take 2 steps in any direction and your down. The same goes with the buff of the scorcher. I have been downed and downed others in seconds of the flame touching. Epic needs to bring the balance that it had when the game was released. I loved every aspect and thought there was a good balance. I prefer the gnasher and lancer because that's what I'm used to from the previous titles, but I do use the rest of the weapons because of the effectiveness. I even found myself using the Retro as my primary weapon choice in gameplay footage for several matches because of its stopping power when I played a team that pushed a lot with gnashers and sawed offs. It was a little unfair because if I seen them I stopped them in their tracks before they got close enough to myself or teammates. I'm not against rifles or stopping power, I believe it should be put back to were it was at the start.

Yeah, I understand Epic wanting to make it balanced, but the changes have sort of strayed from that. Some things need to be brought down while others need to be left alone. The scorcher is a big example; while it's great that it's super powerful now, I honestly don't know what Epic's intentions with it are. If they are buffing it because no one uses it, why not do the same with the gorgon? I love that thing, but I hardly get any downs/kills with it unless I luckily unload a full clip on them.

Anyways I've noticed we're straying a bit off topic, let's pull ourselves back before we lose focus...

[tiredgamer]

I read the whole thing woo.

I am all for more experimenting with stopping power and the directional idea you had seems smart, but it may be hard to implement.(Especially since the next TU is probably already complete due to DLC4)

Perhaps an easier method of experimentation would to just reduce stopping power by 50% in zeta or just the general playlist and work from there to 75% of its current power or down to 25% of its current power. Those numbers are just examples, but would probably be a good starting point. If anything it could at least be tried on a weekend or in zeta.

[Terra D Serph]

I read the whole thing woo.

I am all for more experimenting with stopping power and the directional idea you had seems smart, but it may be hard to implement.(Especially since the next TU is probably already complete due to DLC4)

Perhaps an easier method of experimentation would to just reduce stopping power by 50% in zeta or just the general playlist and work from there to 75% of its current power or down to 25% of its current power. Those numbers are just examples, but would probably be a good starting point. If anything it could at least be tried on a weekend or in zeta.

Yeah I thought about that in an earlier post, but I've had many occasion where there's a piece of cover diagonally across, practically to the right or left of me, and because I had to go maybe an foot towards my opponent I'm screwed because they've got full blast stopping power on me. I try to overcome that with rolling, but it still leaves me with my head sticking out, which, with the lancer only downs me faster, and with every other weapon it only makes it all the more pointless, especially when they were already aiming at my head to begin with. Not against dropping it a bit as an experiment, but I'm just more inclined to this idea because it seems like the best idea so far.

[ValeraPitiesDaFool]

Once again Nefiiria I agree with you.

I lost it at "Lancer Prostitutes" and "Gnasher Prostitutes" xD

Stopping power has gone a bit insane and it's ridiculous how it practically says " Oh Thou art screwed now!" and smashes you into the floor.

Though IMO The gnasher's range is a bit overdone. * Puts on flame suit*