The Kantus

[Joveus]

I see what everyone has been saying, but I too take issue with the idea that nexus is only 100 years old. Based on it's aged feel and the collectibles in Gears 2 I think you could say that there was some form of proto-culture in the Hollow before the New Hope people arrived. Could it not be that centuries ago a group of humans lived underground and were steadily mutated into the Kantus form. This society then learned to stay away from the Imulsion which slowed or temporarily stopped their mutation. The Kantus then built Nexus, controlled/communed with the worms and built their culture. This could account for the Romily story and rest of the discrepencies. It could also be that the Kantus only bred slowly (hard to charm a berserker you know) and that's why they weren't found before. The New Hope people, with their higher technology, then came onboard and possibly took over and started creating drones from humans, etc.

Sure it's possible. It's also just as possible that the Kantus came from space, or that the Riftworms taught ancient humanity how to build and read and write before the Kantus came down and destroyed their ancient civilisation. The point I'm trying to make is that I formulated my ideas based and what can be observed, witnessed or quoted from throughout the series. For that reason I was able to conceive and source a theory that all Locust came from New Hope, and for the same reason I'm unable to say that the Kantus were an ancient race.

Sure the architecture of Nexus looks old, to some more than 100 years old, but I have to ask - why do people think the Kantus had anything to do with that? As far as I can tell, the concept of the Kantus building Nexus originated with Tao Devil's pre-Gears of War 3 Locust origin thread, viewable here, which also seems to be the origin of the "Myrrah is the only successful experiment from New Hope" idea that I keep seeing Locust Forever and others mention. This theory was posted on 02-10-2010, before Anvil Gate, Coalition's End and the Slab were published, long before Gears of War 3 came out, and during the long comics hiatus between Barren parts 3 and 4. At that time all that was known about the Lambent was that they were "an infection" and nothing had been said about the Locust at all. Except, you know, if you were actually paying attention during Gears of War 2.

Sure, anybody could put two and two together and see that the glowing, exploding Locust were connected to imulsion somehow. And once the imulsion slithered up the wall after killing a lambent drone during the assault on Nexus it didn't take a genius to realise it was alive. So imulsion infects the Locust? Can it infect humans? Oh wait, that's exactly what Rustlung is, "imulsion sickness". So imulsion is alive and infecting everything. Hmm, maybe that secret medical facility where the patients seemed to be suffering from the same symptoms as Rustlung long ago might be relevant here? What happened to those guys? Oh yeah, they all went up into a mountain where the centre of Locust civilisation is located almost a century later. Must be a coincidence... Oh well *revs chainsaw*

That is all in Gears of War 2. By putting the pieces together a credible idea emerges. But the concept of the Kantus being an ancient race, while definately, undeniably possible, is neither alluded to or even suggested at all. Nexus is older than New Hope? Okay, so the Kantus built it? Or maybe the Mole People built it before they were wiped out by the Kantus? Oh wait, maybe the Mole People were the original humans who expanded and moved to the surface and then after the Kantus came from space and the war they later called the Age of Armageddon the surviving Kantus fled underground and inhabited the ruins of Nexus until history went full circle and the humans who later became Locust from New Hope found them?

... It's just as possible as the ancient Kantus theory. When there's nothing in the series that supports or denies it, anything is possible. Maybe Gears of War: Judgment will shed some light on the Kantus and I'll be right or wrong, or maybe nothing will be said about them at all. I keep hearing the same thing again and again and again - Nexus is obviously older than 100 years, therefore the Kantus built it. Why? Why is it obviously older than New Hope? Why did the Kantus build it? If anyone can source something, anything from anywhere in the series then great, I'll happily concede ignorance and gracious defeat. Until then, I must firmly continue to reject the idea of the Kantus being anything other than another strain of imulsion mutated human, a tangent that evolved in a different direction.

There's a quote from the Slab that stuck in my mind ever since I first saw it;

"And imulsion did cause mutations in humans. He knew that all too well now, as the COG had known for years. But the process by which it changed from an apparently biologically inactive fuel to a live pathogen remained unclear, as did finding parallels between imulsion’s teratogenic effects and its behaviour as a pathogen. Adam suspected they weren’t linear stages of the same thing but evidence that imulsion was evolving, diversifying just like the first life on Sera had done."
- Adam Fenix’s thoughts (The Slab – Chapter 13)

That one line explains everything for me. Kantus, Boomers, Drones, all come from a single source but diversify as imulsion explores different avenues of evolution. Look at the drastic changes the Brumak undertook when it went Lambent. Original animal + imulsion = wildly unpredictable outcome. This is why all humanoid Locust, yes, even the Kantus, can trace their origins back to New Hope.

[ronin0331]

Don't get me wrong, I think you've done one hell of a job providing a single unifying theory and I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm just saying that the appearance of Nexus and the Locust religious artifacts suggest to me that there was some kind of proto-culture present prior to the New Hope personnel arriving. I suggest the Kantus are the remnants of that culture because of their religious status. I do find it hard to believe that the New Hope people, who started out as regular Serans, would suddenly invent an entire religion and creation story when forced to move underground, I don't care how mutated they were. For this reason I think the Kantus may have been there already. It definitely has the feel that the New Hope arrival dovetailed into that pre-existing culture somehow and exploited it. If the Kantus, who I argue bred slowly, regarded the New Hope people as some kind of savior because they had the ability to create drones, etc. it would explain why the New Hope people were accepted as leaders and eliminate any inconsistency with the age of the locust/Nexus.

So to answer your question; I think the Kantus are responsible for Nexus due to the fact that they are the "monks" of the locust religion, which also seems older than 100 years, and unlikely to have been invented by the New Hope colonists. In addition, the quote you cited, "Adam suspected they weren’t linear stages of the same thing but evidence that imulsion was evolving, diversifying just like the first life on Sera had done." could support this theory also, if the Kantus represent an older mutation in the evolution of the Imulsion. This is just one theory, which we will most likely never get an answer to, but I actually think it gels with facts that you've come up with pretty well.

[Mysterion Rises]

Sure, anybody could put two and two together and see that the glowing, exploding Locust were connected to imulsion somehow. And once the imulsion slithered up the wall after killing a lambent drone during the assault on Nexus it didn't take a genius to realise it was alive. So imulsion infects the Locust? Can it infect humans? Oh wait, that's exactly what Rustlung is, "imulsion sickness". So imulsion is alive and infecting everything. Hmm, maybe that secret medical facility where the patients seemed to be suffering from the same symptoms as Rustlung long ago might be relevant here? What happened to those guys? Oh yeah, they all went up into a mountain where the centre of Locust civilisation is located almost a century later. Must be a coincidence... Oh well *revs chainsaw*

Haha laughed at this lol u couldn't have put the locust origin any better gears 2 tells us everything

Like I've said to u before joveus I still believe the Kantus are in the game to give us something else to shoot

Remember when we first encountered the Kantus in gears 2?

Dom - what's that noise?

Marcus - down here something else to shoot!!!!

Exactly lol

[rebelboy]

Eh, I wanna say it's gameplay mechanics. Its probably the game's way of saying "Hey! Shoot that guy before he gets back up!"

It is, that doesn't mean we can't come up with reasons for it though. Quite a few make sense.

[Joveus]

Don't get me wrong, I think you've done one hell of a job providing a single unifying theory and I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm just saying that the appearance of Nexus and the Locust religious artifacts suggest to me that there was some kind of proto-culture present prior to the New Hope personnel arriving. I suggest the Kantus are the remnants of that culture because of their religious status. I do find it hard to believe that the New Hope people, who started out as regular Serans, would suddenly invent an entire religion and creation story when forced to move underground, I don't care how mutated they were. For this reason I think the Kantus may have been there already. It definitely has the feel that the New Hope arrival dovetailed into that pre-existing culture somehow and exploited it. If the Kantus, who I argue bred slowly, regarded the New Hope people as some kind of savior because they had the ability to create drones, etc. it would explain why the New Hope people were accepted as leaders and eliminate any inconsistency with the age of the locust/Nexus.

So to answer your question; I think the Kantus are responsible for Nexus due to the fact that they are the "monks" of the locust religion, which also seems older than 100 years, and unlikely to have been invented by the New Hope colonists. In addition, the quote you cited, "Adam suspected they weren’t linear stages of the same thing but evidence that imulsion was evolving, diversifying just like the first life on Sera had done." could support this theory also, if the Kantus represent an older mutation in the evolution of the Imulsion. This is just one theory, which we will most likely never get an answer to, but I actually think it gels with facts that you've come up with pretty well.

My post yesterday descends into too much of a rant than a logical argument so I'm kinda 'ehhhh', but the meat of whats stated there is something I still stand by. The only thing I'll say here is that the "monk" aspect of the Kantus seems to be more to do with their abilities than anything else, which I argue to be stimulation of imulsion within other creatures. Now I do see it said quite a lot that "how can the Locust build such an advanced and complex religion in such a short time"? My answer is, and has always been "Their biogenetic engeneering is advanced and complex, their worshipping of worms not so much".

Consider this alternative view of Locust history;

From Niles Samson to Myrrah, there have always been human scientists leading the Locust Horde. Through multiple generations, the scientists of New Hope and their descendants passed on their knowledge to the Locust. New Hope was staffed by experienced biogeneticists, exactly the same skills that the Locust are so proficient at. Now most of the Locust are infected imulsion miners, people whose careers involve digging and excavating underground, these people are going to be more than capable of creating something like Nexus. All of this I've said before, but now for the next step.

Humanity did not know about the Riftworm until one appeared in Gears of War 2. The Locust did, however, and they knew a lot about them even though it was in hibernation until the Lightmass Bomb awoke it. Considering the geographical proximity of Timgad to Mt. Kadar, I find it likely that the Riftworm was discovered during Locust expansion in the early years of the Horde, perhaps when the original New Hope scientists were still running the show. While a bunch of miners might not really care about a giant worm, a bunch of professional, exiled scientists would be incredibly eager to study and understand it. It would be a break from all that depressing imulsion mutation that's going on. I suggest then, that the Locust religion does not descend from an ancient Kantus culture, but rather exists as a corrupted version of what the scientists in charge of the Horde thought to be one of the most exciting discoveries of their time - the answer to "What created the Hollow?"

[taffenaff]

EPIC thread man. It has been said before. But here's my theory:

The Sires offspring are the Kantus. Drones are processed humans. I do believe there are more humans processed than Sire babies.

And Tai... Why didn't he just say, or scream, when they found him in the "prison": -They are turning humans into Drones. or Kantus.

He had alot of wounds on his back. if they are processing. Scorge's or the berserkers backs are more "patterned" that Drones backs. but the exoskeleton has not been bringed up in my theory

I still don't understand how they built the nexus so fast. was it under construction when you where there in gears 2? don't remember

this is a theory with no more proof then you Joveus. You're awesome

[XtremeC0nditi0nHD]

just an parenthesis

Do not see the sire looks like a lambent ?
THE DRUDGE !
I noticed that there in no time
(sorry for my BAD english)

[XtremeC0nditi0nHD]

EPIC thread man. It has been said before. But here's my theory:

The Sires offspring are the Kantus. Drones are processed humans. I do believe there are more humans processed than Sire babies.

And Tai... Why didn't he just say, or scream, when they found him in the "prison": -They are turning humans into Drones. or Kantus.

He had alot of wounds on his back. if they are processing. Scorge's or the berserkers backs are more "patterned" that Drones backs. but the exoskeleton has not been bringed up in my theory

I still don't understand how they built the nexus so fast. was it under construction when you where there in gears 2? don't remember

this is a theory with no more proof then you Joveus. You're awesome

In the comic Taï say :

"My grandfather told me one day the soul leaves the body in its time ...
And not necessarily the day of death, he said.
When the body is jail ...
The time has come for the soul to escape .
And when the soul is gone ...
The body follows soon after."

And we can see in the comic when he says that he is tortured by boomer !
I hope it answers your question !

[Phenomenal]

I actually read the whole thing. Very interesting. Thanks for the theories!

[Gnashty NaS]

Very good read, I've always liked and been interested in Kantus.

[Slaughterrific]

Another well composed theory of yours.

[L8e Lure]

I was going to ask you what you thought about Formers and how compared to Lambent Drones, they really don't have any self control, they just run up and start smacking you. While the Lambent Drones actually use cover and anticipate their attack to an extent. Your parting question though- say you are right and it is the interaction with the imulsion that gives the Armored Kantus control of it- do you think that would explain why the humans that just turned Lambent are totally wreckless while things like Drones that have gone fully Lambent are ahead since it's been in their cells all this time?

[Coleyman]

I was going to ask you what you thought about Formers and how compared to Lambent Drones, they really don't have any self control, they just run up and start smacking you. While the Lambent Drones actually use cover and anticipate their attack to an extent. Your parting question though- say you are right and it is the interaction with the imulsion that gives the Armored Kantus control of it- do you think that would explain why the humans that just turned Lambent are totally wreckless while things like Drones that have gone fully Lambent are ahead since it's been in their cells all this time?

This is because Epic wanted Formers to act as 'swarm' enemies; to flock you in large numbers. It's just a gameplay decision and we shouldn't read too much into it.

[Viewing the hue]

Awesome man love your threads. If processing humans makes drones, does processing drones create Kantus? What if they experimented on themselves?

[Joveus]

My long-postponed edit of this thread has finally been done. I'd meant to update Origins of the Locust and this one at the same time when the Slab came out, but only did Origins of the Locust in the end. When was that now? 4 months ago? Oh well, it got done eventually.

While we're at it, let's promote my Adam Fenix's Disk thread in which I use "Science!" to figure out what's actually on it.

[UNLETHAL]

My long-postponed edit of this thread has finally been done. I'd meant to update Origins of the Locust and this one at the same time when the Slab came out, but only did Origins of the Locust in the end. When was that now? 4 months ago? Oh well, it got done eventually.

While we're at it, let's promote my Adam Fenix's Disk thread in which I use "Science!" to figure out what's actually on it.

perfect. i was going to re read your 2 current threads along with the new one, tonight. looks like there will be even more info to sponge up thanks dude.

[Nuclearmissle25]

So humans technically created the locust?

[Joveus]

So humans technically created the locust?

Technically yes, since they brought all the lambent humans together and grouped together their offspring into one horde. But literally "create" the Locust? No, since the children of lambent humans were going to mutate regardless of whether New Hope was involved or not.

[Mxmgol]

So humans technically created the locust?

In other words yes

[XxXS3lfm4d3XxX]

Very interesting. I really never got a chance to read one of those Gears books.

[Shibboleth]

Very good read. You know I'd always believed Myrrah was half human/half Locust and that the Locust lived underground forever but I never asked why. There's so much in the series that contradicts that and you've brought it together in a way that doesn't damage the story, but enriches it. I hope Judgment gives some more hints and mentions the Kantus in some way, a clue that says whether or not they were around before New Hope. Also, I hope they put in some hints about Myrrah because there's still not enough about her, even with all the clues we already have, I think.

[_sticks_]

Great thread! Made for an excellent read <3

[tristan7grunt]

Nexus is very old. it was made by someone, those someones lived underground, they scavenged war technology from human weapons that had been tossed down into the hollows during the pendulum wars. These someones had also domesticated animals. A LOT of animals, not to mention the brumaks, who were bred from smaller subterranean apes of the hollow, breeding an ape into those things takes a long time to do, just look at us humans and our dogs. These someones also founded a religion based on riftworms, creatures who had been asleep for thousands of years, how did the someones know about these riftworms? They must have encountered them long before, because their creation myth is very accurate. So, who in the locust horde lead the religion? Who are the least common, and the most intelligent? The kantus. The kantus also don't resemble humans or drones in the slightest, yet they're allied with the drones. This is because when the locust were brought to mount kadar, they met the kantus there, and the kantus realized "We should be friends with these things, because they're clearly intelligent creatures from the surface, we could learn from each other." But eventually, the locust and kantus realized something about the imulsion, it was infecting the,\m, and urning them into homicidal monsters, that's not good. The imulsion only started to become aggressive when the humans created the lightmass process, which mutated all imulsion on Sera into a parasitic plague. The locust queen, a daughter of one of the scientists that escorted the locust to mount kadar, decides to contact Adam fenix, hoping he can cure the plague. She acts so secret about it because she thinks the humans will react adversely to the locust and kantus. When adam can't make a cure, she is forced to start a war with humanity, and remember, she's human, and we all know how much humans love to kill other humans.

[GeneralGreasy]

It's interesting to note that on the Gears of War wiki page for the Kantus, it claims that it is presumed all the Kantus died from the Imulsion Countermeasure, but then goes on to say that it has "yet to be proven" and there's a citation next to it leading to The Slab (I have no idea what The Slab has to do with it). So is there a slim possibility of the Kantus still being alive? Or is it simply an error on the editor's part?

[Joveus]

This thread has been moved (obviously) to the Story and Characters sub-forum. Just in case anyone was looking for it.