This is great.
This is great.
Ivory weapon skin unlocked - 3/27/12.
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Comment my thread!
"Did they know what was awaiting them inside Mount Kadar? Did they deserve what we did to them? Should we be punished?" - Niles
The recording from New Hope! Reading up on New Hope on gearspedia leaves me with so many different views on this! Sires firstly were not taken to Mount Kadar instead it was the "children" as Niles calls them! What was awaiting them? Well Chairman Monroe ordered them to be taken there, perhaps their death was awaiting them as Monroe could have ordered them to be taken there and executed because the media were becoming far too interested in the work being carried out at New Hope?!? If this is true then their corpses would have obviously been left at Mount Kadar and completely out of sight! The route to Mount Kadar was also cut off by the Chairman so nobody could ever reach there! Unless its winter time and the lakes are frozen and u are driving a Centaur lol
Did they deserve what we did to them? For me these subjects must have been human at one point and were experimented on against their will so no they didn't deserve it? Should we be punished? Well whatever happened to the subjects is a mystery but if they managed to escape into Mount Kadar then maybe they would seek revenge?
So to summarise the theory I'm trying to explain is maybe......maybe these subjects who were taken to Mount Kadar were taken there for execution and maybe a certain female escaped............maybe!!!! But I am far away from the truth as we have no idea what happened to Niles and we have no confirmation as to what exactly was happening at New Hope! As far as I'm led to believe the Sires "might" have been the first genetic experiment at New Hope! The second might have been the "children" and from what I know I'm sure they were the ones taken to Mount Kadar and as we all know these Sires were left in stasis! Why? I have no idea but in regards to Ruth?? Well her analysis that was documented stated she had extreme swelling in her joints, frequently cries out in pain during the night, exhibits rather erratic and unpredictable behaviour, discolouration in her eyes, breathing sounds laboured, nails grow at a faster rate, hair grows at a reduced rate! She was 15 at the time this analysis was documented which could lead us to believe she either became a Sire or is one of these "children" that was experimented on! A bold statement after reading such findings is saying she is Myrrah! We have no idea how long ago these experiments were carried out and we have no idea how long New Hope was running for! All of this is just speculation on my behalf after studying what we are told in Gears 2. She might be the queen, she might not be! These "children" might be the locust, they might not be! Unless there is confirmation on this then we will have to assume! The only truth we know is that the Sires are the Neanderthals to the locust therefore whatever the humans were experimenting at New Hope leads us to believe it all started there!
Last edited by Mysterion Rises; 04-01-2012 at 07:11 PM.
The first posts have been updated with additional information, specifically
- The inclusion and analysis of the Romily story in the "How old are the Locust?" section.
- A rewrite on the age of Nexus with additonal quotes from Gears of War 2 in "The Locust" section.
- The addtition of quotes and analysis from Coalition's End and Destroyed Beauty regarding the age, size and appearance of the Locust in "The Locust" section.
These edits have again been done with sources provided from the Gears of War universe, I've made a point not to include speculation or quotes from the Epic developers or writers. Ideally I want to show that these conclusions can be reached just by looking at the source material without any outside help.
Enjoy (if you're willing to read through the whole thing again to find the additions )
As for all the people who keep saying Adam Fenix worked at New Hope... There's multiple reasons why that doesn't work - the age of the facility, the age of Adam himself, what New Hope was working on, what Adam was working on. Adam Fenix has nothing to do with New Hope - period. The facility was closed almost a century before he was even working as a scientist.
I've seen Jim Brown's comments about this, and for a while I was tempted to edit my thread to include them - but I thought that would be cheating. I'll accept them as a means to support my argument, but I really want the in-game facts to stand for themselves. I think that the Romily story coupled with the Fenix Research collectible provides an in-universe alternative that shows lambency has existed underground for a few hundred years and was being studied at New Hope once humanity discovered imulsion.
In the Nashtyboy thread there was a guy who actually said "I will never, ever accept that the Locust were created at New Hope. I will continue to believe they were an ancient race and nothing anybody tells me will make me believe otherwise". What can you say to something like that?
If people can read my thread, see the evidence that is provided in the series, then read what the developers are saying and still reject it, there's nothing more I can do.
I think Jim's statement Myyrah "continued the dialogue" after Elaine died intimates work and talk began with her, and actually begs the question Why Elaine really kept going into the hollow. We were told it was exploring for various reasons including immulsion crystals. Was it also to meet w Myyrah? Was her death an accident! Or because of a lack of progress? Or just like you said, going too deep into off limit areas?
Regardless it's clear Lambency predates the 20 some odd year research cycle.
Ortega is now irrelevant. The Keys to writing this franchise were given to Karen Traviss w Epics blessing. What she puts forth ultimately regarding history is canon regardless of Ortegas intention. He is no longer a factor. Further Epic was involved in that writing process as well.
Those comments by developers need to be included, as they further support your theory, player acceptance s irrelevant.
Maybe I will edit the main posts, but I still want in-universe evidence to take priority.
wow man great post!
Smoke Grenades, you will come to fear them.
However Brown and Nash, their statements are gold until Karen, Josh, or someone at Epic say otherwise. Use these statements to Support in game evidence, not vice versa.
I guess u guys are clearly not interested in commenting or discussing anything I have posted?
This is fantastic. Best thread I've seen on this forum for a long time.
Deserves exemplary credit!
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Without a doubt, my favorite theory about the Locust and their origins.
As TJ_Mk already said, best thread I've seen in a long time.
Also, I love your Kantus thread. Good job, dude!
Originally Posted by Handsome Jack
I can't argue against statements like these, because there's nothing provided in-game that either supports or disputes them. The only difference is that I can provide sources to backup my statements whereas the others are speculation.
As for Myrrah well I have to agree with u on this one that she must be a descendant of one of the scientists at New Hope with knowledge of creating locusts! I may have posted something else stating that she is not but after reading ur main post again I have to agree with u on this one! Hopefully the slab will cover this
Last edited by Mysterion Rises; 04-01-2012 at 07:34 PM.
Another interesting thing that I've never seen mentioned is how exactly Prescott knew about New Hope.
Think about it...
Prescott "declassifies" the information about New Hope, but he didn't know about the Locust until long after E-Day and Hoffman said that New Hope "was like it doesn't exist" in the COG databases. Only Adam Fenix knew about the Locust, so Prescott must have got the information about New Hope from him. But where did Adam Fenix get the information from? Obviously he got the information from Myrrah. And why would Myrrah know about New Hope...?
Dun dun duuuuuun!
That's why the Locust turn up at New Hope, doods
Edit: I can't really leave a statement like this unsupported, soooooo
“I tried to persuade Myrrah to keep her people underground, but they couldn’t, so then-”
“Wait, wait, wait – did I hear right? The government knew E-Day was coming? And none of you bothered to warn us?”
“No, just me. Even Prescott didn’t know, not until much later.”
- Adam Fenix and Baird (Gears of War 3 – Act 5, Chapter 5: Ascension)
“Yes, I was already well aware that Queen Myrrah knew Adam Fenix, even if Marcus didn’t. I also knew why. I just didn’t know soon enough.”
- Prescott (Dirty Little Secrets – Part One)
At this point there is no reason to assume that either man is lying. Normally the default stance when dealing with Prescott is to assume he's lying, but in this case he's having a monologue so we can take his words as fact. The thing to take away from these quotes is that Prescott was not aware of what the Locust were or where they came from until he learned it from Adam Fenix much later. With Prescott gaining his Locust intel from Adam, Adam himself must have got the information from Myrrah, there's nowhere else he could have got it from.
Now it is possible that Prescott did wait until Operation: Hollow Storm before investigating New Hope, but this raises questions. Why wait until now to investigate this facility, considering how close to extinction humanity has become? What information would be left in the COG databases for Prescott to make the connection between New Hope and finding the Locust stronghold at Nexus? And the Locust presence at New Hope, is this simply the result of the Locust anticipating that the COG would return there at some point? For Prescott to pull his best team out of the major operation of the war and thrust them into a new situation, he must be pretty confident that they'll find something.
Adam Fenix and Prescott have been in communication throughout all three games, piggybacking their radio transmissions on the old weather satellites. If Adam Fenix travelled to Nexus during his tenure with the Locust, he would have travelled through the Hollow, not the surface. For this reason, even though he knew Nexus existed, he didn't know how to access it from the surface, or where exactly it was in relation to Jacinto. At some point though, he must have learned from the Locust about New Hope, but considering his attempts to try and save the Locust as well as humanity, he would have been incredibly reluctant to reveal what he knew to Prescott, still hoping he could find a cure to lambency.
But the one weakness Adam Fenix has is the safety of Marcus. At the same time as Delta is involved in Op: Hollow Storm and swallowed by the Riftworm, suddenly this information about the New Hope facility is revealed.
"Excuse me, sir, but what the hell? Just declassified? And what do you mean, a Locust queen?"
- Marcus (Gears of War 2 - Act 2, Chapter 6: Intestinal Fortitude)
Adam Fenix is the one that knows about Myrrah and New Hope, not Prescott, and it is not until Adam reveals this information to Prescott that he in turn reveals it to Delta. And the only reason Adam would know any of this is because Myrrah told him. Really, it makes sense for him to know. How could Adam be expected to save the Locust from lambency without first knowing their origins and biology?
With the message at the end of Gears 2 from Adam Fenix it is obvious he informed Prescott of New Hope and I think that message might have been ment for Prescott (or not) Prescott ordered the sinking of Jacinto but he didnt have a choice the locust were going to sink Jacinto anyway so maybe........maybe that message was for......
Adam knew flooding the hollow would cause some affect on the lambent life cycle that's why he sent this message and I believe it was ment for her! But she was desperate the lambent epidemic was getting worse especially after the lightmass bomb causing rustlung to humans just think of what rustlung was doing to the locusts underground! Surely if the message was for the humans that someone would have received it? But then again how would Myrrah receive it if her home is flooded
Last edited by Mysterion Rises; 04-02-2012 at 03:54 AM.
Jov u still about I want up keep talking about this I'm excited lol
Dude this I awesome I salute you!!
It's that good I fell asleep reading it ^^
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Best theroy yet. Hopefully these idea's are confirmed in the next gears of war if there is too be a next one. GOW 4 could be set just before E-day.
The locust have always been there. Marcus' mom once spoke about them in one of the books that she found baby spider-like things (corpsers) and she said that they could have probably grown easily over 2 meters tall.
So Locust are an Abomination? :'( I think they are a majestic people that could have lived side by side with the humans, if it weren't for the lambent.
Favorite weapon pickup: Scorcher
Favorite Cogs: Barrick,Onyx Guard,Hoffman
Favorite locusts: Theron Elite,Palace Guard,Kantus, Armored Kantus
Maps I want to see return in 3: CourtYard,Fuel Depot,Canals, Avalanche,Highway and AllFarthers Garden.
Didnt it say in one of the books that the locust breed by chaining down a berserker and then they all have there way ?
or am i just imagining it.
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After the recent influx of Myrrah-related threads I've overhauled the Myrrah section. I thought we'd reached the point where everyone had accepted that Myrrah was human, but I've made the edit for those that need convincing - especially those who believe Myrrah to be Ruth from New Hope.
I recently completed a quick comb-through of all the games, books and comics to see if there was any important quotes I've missed but I think I've got pretty much everything that is relevant. This'll be my last edit to the thread for a while, expect further revisions or a complete tear-down post-release of the Slab and Part 6 of Dirty Little Secrets (if Locust history is addressed in either )
Hey, I'm a long time lurker to these forums but until now never really had a reason to join or post anything. Do you realise what you've done? Seriously, you've cracked open a story that has been misunderstood by so many for so long that I wonder if EPIC thought anybody would ever figure it all out. I thought everything you said about the Lambent and New Hope was interesting, but I always thought Romily and Myrrah made your theory make no sense. After that last edit though, I'm 100% behind you on all of this, it all makes so much sense! I feel like I've had an epiphany or something, like everything I thought I knew has been turned upside down. You've even got the developers from EPIC themselves saying you got it right! NFI is right, you should post them at the very beginning of your thread so those who can't be bothered to read know what's going on. I thought that people would be reading this and treating it like the Da Vinci Code but the reaction has been subdued. You should've posted this in the main Gears of War 3 forum, you would've got way more views. I've seen theories that make way less sense get way more views because they were posted in the main Gears of War 3 forum.
Anyway I just wanted to say that this thread is like Metal Gear Solid 4 and thatit's made me want to go back and play through the whole thing again to see how many hints and clues are there. It must have took forever to quote everything! BUt it makes your argument watertight, so thank you there's fans like you to make fans like me more of a fan than I already am.
Edit 2: Sorry for all the edits but did you notice that when the Lambent Wretches turn up in Gears 1 the level is called Evolution? And when you go to New Hope and meet the Sires in Gears 2 the levels are called Dirty Little Secrets and Origins? These things were right in front of us the whole time! Evolution is about the Lambent being evolved Locust dur to imulsion way before they even expanded on the Lambent on Gears 2, and the Sires were called Origins which means EPIC was telling us where the Locust came from in Gears 2. It's so exciting figuring it all o9ut!
Last edited by The Shrike; 04-04-2012 at 05:07 PM.
in adam fenix's research he said the lambents lifecycle is a long period of dormancy *from long before gears 1* followed by a period of Accelerated activity *gears 3* before maturation? Their has to be some more powerful lambent wouldn't you think?
If you truly believe in gears of war please read these threads
The counter measure was set off in time and killed them. There will be no games or books where the lambent are still around. The wars done. Deltas story is one. There are no "more powerful lambent", or locust. Nothing even remotely supports this.
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I've posted about this thread in the main Gears of War 3 forum. I really thing more people should be reading this, its like a sleeping giant.
“Symptom: Ruth is clearly experiencing extreme swelling in her joints and frequently cries out in pain during the night. She also exhibits rather erratic and unpredictable behavior, though this is quite understandable considering her situation and symptoms. There is a strange discoloration in her eyes, and her breathing often sounds labored. Her nails grow at a faster rate than normal, though her hair grows at a markedly reduced rate. I'll keep trying to find some type of medication to alleviate her pain without adversely affecting our studies.”
- New Hope Medical File collectible (Gears of War 2 – Act 3, Chapter 2: Origins)
Joveus like I said before I agree 100% with ur theory and I think it's completely watertight. In regards to the collectable in gears 2 where it says "I'll keep trying to find some type of medication to alleviate her pain without adversely affecting our studies." maybe I might be looking way too much into this but do u think this medication that this scientist might have used cured Ruth? I'm not going against ur theory or anything u said dude its just a thought that was messing about in my head lol
Myrrah is not Ruth, but she is descended from the scientists at New Hope. She is completely human, does not have imulsion contamination in her cells, is not turning Former and is in no way Locust, either whole or in part.
I'd like u to know dude ur theory is perfect and I completely agree with everything u have said! This is completely watertight and for me there is no argument against it! Well done dude
Basically, rustlung and Formers were both around 100 years ago.
I apologise for all these questions and by no means I am going against ur theory just these things are confusing me and I need to make sure they are accurate
- The Formers were humans who were overexposed to imulsion.
- The Sires were created by accident in an attempt to cure the Formers.
- The Locust were the offspring of those who became the Sires.
- The Lambent were Locust who were overexposed to imulsion.