Origins of the Locust - A study of the Lambent, the Sires, the Locust and Myrrah

[Adverse Effect]

This is great.

[Mysterion Rises]

"Did they know what was awaiting them inside Mount Kadar? Did they deserve what we did to them? Should we be punished?" - Niles

The recording from New Hope! Reading up on New Hope on gearspedia leaves me with so many different views on this! Sires firstly were not taken to Mount Kadar instead it was the "children" as Niles calls them! What was awaiting them? Well Chairman Monroe ordered them to be taken there, perhaps their death was awaiting them as Monroe could have ordered them to be taken there and executed because the media were becoming far too interested in the work being carried out at New Hope?!? If this is true then their corpses would have obviously been left at Mount Kadar and completely out of sight! The route to Mount Kadar was also cut off by the Chairman so nobody could ever reach there! Unless its winter time and the lakes are frozen and u are driving a Centaur lol

Did they deserve what we did to them? For me these subjects must have been human at one point and were experimented on against their will so no they didn't deserve it? Should we be punished? Well whatever happened to the subjects is a mystery but if they managed to escape into Mount Kadar then maybe they would seek revenge?

So to summarise the theory I'm trying to explain is maybe......maybe these subjects who were taken to Mount Kadar were taken there for execution and maybe a certain female escaped............maybe!!!! But I am far away from the truth as we have no idea what happened to Niles and we have no confirmation as to what exactly was happening at New Hope! As far as I'm led to believe the Sires "might" have been the first genetic experiment at New Hope! The second might have been the "children" and from what I know I'm sure they were the ones taken to Mount Kadar and as we all know these Sires were left in stasis! Why? I have no idea but in regards to Ruth?? Well her analysis that was documented stated she had extreme swelling in her joints, frequently cries out in pain during the night, exhibits rather erratic and unpredictable behaviour, discolouration in her eyes, breathing sounds laboured, nails grow at a faster rate, hair grows at a reduced rate! She was 15 at the time this analysis was documented which could lead us to believe she either became a Sire or is one of these "children" that was experimented on! A bold statement after reading such findings is saying she is Myrrah! We have no idea how long ago these experiments were carried out and we have no idea how long New Hope was running for! All of this is just speculation on my behalf after studying what we are told in Gears 2. She might be the queen, she might not be! These "children" might be the locust, they might not be! Unless there is confirmation on this then we will have to assume! The only truth we know is that the Sires are the Neanderthals to the locust therefore whatever the humans were experimenting at New Hope leads us to believe it all started there!

[Joveus]

The first posts have been updated with additional information, specifically

- The inclusion and analysis of the Romily story in the "How old are the Locust?" section.
- A rewrite on the age of Nexus with additonal quotes from Gears of War 2 in "The Locust" section.
- The addtition of quotes and analysis from Coalition's End and Destroyed Beauty regarding the age, size and appearance of the Locust in "The Locust" section.

These edits have again been done with sources provided from the Gears of War universe, I've made a point not to include speculation or quotes from the Epic developers or writers. Ideally I want to show that these conclusions can be reached just by looking at the source material without any outside help.

Enjoy (if you're willing to read through the whole thing again to find the additions )

[NFI]

Jov don't forget Myyrah was working with Elaine First. And New Hope, where Adam Never worked was researching it as well. This pretty much solidifies Lambency has been around longer than 20 years,

[Joveus]

Jov don't forget Myyrah was working with Elaine First. And New Hope, where Adam Never worked was researching it as well. This pretty much solidifies Lambency has been around longer than 20 years,

Sorta intentional, I must admit. The "Elain Fenix was the one who discovered the Locust" thing was, I thought, one of the most obvious things in the franchise. The dates have always added up, Myrrah worked with Adam Fenix for roughly 20 years or so, and Elain Fenix disappeared in the Hollow 9 years before E-Day. Adam Fenix never talked about what happened even though he later admitted to finding her body in the Hollow - the same Hollow where the Locust lived. I always believed Elain explored too deep into the Hollow, was killed by the Locust, and Adam Fenix was introduced to Myrrah as a result. Whether Elain worked with the Locust before she was killed though, I don't know. Maybe the Slab will address it.

As for all the people who keep saying Adam Fenix worked at New Hope... There's multiple reasons why that doesn't work - the age of the facility, the age of Adam himself, what New Hope was working on, what Adam was working on. Adam Fenix has nothing to do with New Hope - period. The facility was closed almost a century before he was even working as a scientist.

I've seen Jim Brown's comments about this, and for a while I was tempted to edit my thread to include them - but I thought that would be cheating. I'll accept them as a means to support my argument, but I really want the in-game facts to stand for themselves. I think that the Romily story coupled with the Fenix Research collectible provides an in-universe alternative that shows lambency has existed underground for a few hundred years and was being studied at New Hope once humanity discovered imulsion.

Without giving away too much of the story, the Locust know english because they are former surface-dwellers.

Couple points re: your theory

Conspecificity (spelling?) is an interesting theory, but if you read the books, you'll find that the lambent infection has crossed the species barrier several times, and is affecting sea life, livestock, even dogs.

New Hope is significantly older than Adam Fenix, and his career path is well documented in the supporting materials (comics, novels).

Marcus's mother (a field biologist) was actually the one to "discover" the Locust, and Myrrah continues the dialogue with Adam after she dies. But Adam is a physicist, so he's not as qualified to figure all this infection stuff out. He often muses about how he wishes his wife were around to help him because he's fumbling in the dark. More detail on this forthcoming in The Slab.

Actually New Hope is significantly older than you're thinking, and at the time of its heyday, Rustlung / Lambency was indeed a super dooper top secret mystery that they were experimenting on and the general population had no idea of its existence.

These are the quotes in question, one from a 6 year old thread and two from snorkelbottom's theory, information from Dave "Nashtyboy" Nash and Jim "Entropy" Brown, Lead Level Designers on Gears of War 2 and 3 respectively. These guys are saying outright that New Hope is a century old, rustlung was being researched there, Adam Fenix had nothing to do with New Hope, and the Locust are former humans. But there's always those that say "Who are these guys? Some level developers? They know nothing about the story" and those who say "With Joshua Ortega and Karen Traviss, the writing changed throughout the series so they kept retconning the story". It's for this reason that I'm not including their quotes in the main posts.

In the Nashtyboy thread there was a guy who actually said "I will never, ever accept that the Locust were created at New Hope. I will continue to believe they were an ancient race and nothing anybody tells me will make me believe otherwise". What can you say to something like that?

If people can read my thread, see the evidence that is provided in the series, then read what the developers are saying and still reject it, there's nothing more I can do.

[NFI]

I think Jim's statement Myyrah "continued the dialogue" after Elaine died intimates work and talk began with her, and actually begs the question Why Elaine really kept going into the hollow. We were told it was exploring for various reasons including immulsion crystals. Was it also to meet w Myyrah? Was her death an accident! Or because of a lack of progress? Or just like you said, going too deep into off limit areas?

Regardless it's clear Lambency predates the 20 some odd year research cycle.

I've seen Jim Brown's comments about this, and for a while I was tempted to edit my thread to include them - but I thought that would be cheating. I'll accept them as a means to support my argument, but I really want the in-game facts to stand for themselves. I think that the Romily story coupled with the Fenix Research collectible provides an in-universe alternative that shows lambency has existed underground for a few hundred years and was being studied at New Hope once humanity discovered imulsion.


These are the quotes in question, information from Dave "Nashtyboy" Nash and Jim "Entropy" Brown, Lead Level Designers on Gears of War 2 and 3 respectively. These guys are saying outright that New Hope is a century old, rustlung was being researched there, Adam Fenix had nothing to do with New Hope, and the Locust are former humans. But there's always those that say "Who are these guys? Some level developers? They know nothing about the story" and those who say "With Joshua Ortega and Karen Traviss, the writing changed throughout the series so they kept retconning the story". It's for this reason that I'm not including their quotes in the main posts.

These people can reject it all they want, it doesn't matter. Literature doesn't work that way, Devs work hand in hand w authors when crafting a game, and it's story. Karen Traviss does not have free reign to do as she pleases. Meetings occur to verify, accept, omit and alter said information. People's ignorance in the role played by level designers and Epic in crafting the story doesn't refute the statements.

Ortega is now irrelevant. The Keys to writing this franchise were given to Karen Traviss w Epics blessing. What she puts forth ultimately regarding history is canon regardless of Ortegas intention. He is no longer a factor. Further Epic was involved in that writing process as well.

Those comments by developers need to be included, as they further support your theory, player acceptance s irrelevant.

[Joveus]

Ortega is now irrelevant. The Keys to writing this franchise were given to Karen Traviss w Epics blessing. What she puts forth ultimately regarding history is canon regardless of Ortegas intention. He is no longer a factor. Further Epic was involved in that writing process as well.

Actually Ortega wrote RAAM's Shadow , so he's still involved. You are right though, both Ortega and Traviss work within a framework that was established by Epic. Within that framework they have a large degree of creative freedom, but not to the point where they can dictate major things like the origins of the Lambent and the Locust. Both Ortega and Traviss have said in multiple interviews that there was a large amount of meetings and support between the games, comics and books in order to make sure everything makes sense.

Maybe I will edit the main posts, but I still want in-universe evidence to take priority.

[Viewing the hue]

wow man great post!

[NFI]

Actually Ortega wrote RAAM's Shadow , so he's still involved. You are right though, both Ortega and Traviss work within a framework that was established by Epic. Within that framework they have a large degree of creative freedom, but not to the point where they can dictate major things like the origins of the Lambent and the Locust. Both Ortega and Traviss have said in multiple interviews that there was a large amount of meetings and support between the games, comics and books in order to make sure everything makes sense.

Maybe I will edit the main posts, but I still want in-universe evidence to take priority.

True, I ignored Raams Shadow because it was a side story that had characters designed especially for the DLC. Much of Ortegas major contribution (and it's quite substantial btw) is the comic book stories, dealing with sidestories to help flesh out the universe. I meant in regards to the primary story arc.

However Brown and Nash, their statements are gold until Karen, Josh, or someone at Epic say otherwise. Use these statements to Support in game evidence, not vice versa.

[Mysterion Rises]

I guess u guys are clearly not interested in commenting or discussing anything I have posted?

[TJ_MkII]

This is fantastic. Best thread I've seen on this forum for a long time.

Deserves exemplary credit!

[ChocolateBacon]

Without a doubt, my favorite theory about the Locust and their origins.

As TJ_Mk already said, best thread I've seen in a long time.

Also, I love your Kantus thread. Good job, dude!

[Joveus]

I guess u guys are clearly not interested in commenting or discussing anything I have posted?

Don't get me wrong, I have read what you wrote. Maybe everyone from New Hope was killed, maybe Myrrah was Ruth or another subject and she survived. I've also seen other threads that say that Myrrah is immune to imulsion and others that say the Sires were half-human, half-Locust supersoldiers and still others where the prevailing argument against my idea is "there are too many Locust for them to all be from New Hope" so the Locust must have already been at Mt. Kadar.

I can't argue against statements like these, because there's nothing provided in-game that either supports or disputes them. The only difference is that I can provide sources to backup my statements whereas the others are speculation.

[NFI]

Don't get me wrong, I have read what you wrote. Maybe everyone from New Hope was killed, maybe Myrrah was Ruth or another subject and she survived. I've also seen other threads that say that Myrrah is immune to imulsion and others that say the Sires were half-human, half-Locust supersoldiers and still others where the prevailing argument against my idea is "there are too many Locust for them to all be from New Hope" so the Locust must have already been at Mt. Kadar.

I can't argue against statements like these, because there's nothing provided in-game that either supports or disputes them. The only difference is that I can provide sources to backup my statements whereas the others are speculation.

Well stated. Also, Myyrah's physical appearance seems to contradict the physical changes Ruth was exhibiting.

[Mysterion Rises]

Don't get me wrong, I have read what you wrote. Maybe everyone from New Hope was killed, maybe Myrrah was Ruth or another subject and she survived. I've also seen other threads that say that Myrrah is immune to imulsion and others that say the Sires were half-human, half-Locust supersoldiers and still others where the prevailing argument against my idea is "there are too many Locust for them to all be from New Hope" so the Locust must have already been at Mt. Kadar.

I can't argue against statements like these, because there's nothing provided in-game that either supports or disputes them. The only difference is that I can provide sources to backup my statements whereas the others are speculation.

No I can't and will refuse to believe they were some crazy genocidal race living underground for thousands and thousands of years! Like u said Epic have stated the answers are in the games therefore they must have been created at New Hope! If the scientists or whoever went with the subjects to Mount Kadar stayed with them then one of them must have had a cure or whatever to neutralise imulsion sickness! I believe everything u have stated in your first posts and I also believe that at New Hope they found a way to neutralise rustlung! The locust must be the result of this but unfortunately for those working at New Hope as u know the facility was shut down due to the media being informed of the experiments being carried out! I believe like I mentioned in my previous post that these "subjects" were taken to Mount Kadar to be disposed of! Mount Kadars route was also cut off to prevent anyone reaching it surely this happened to prevent anyone coming in contact with the subjects once they where placed there! As u know in Gears 2 it was heavily guarded so surely this explains a lot that the locust must be these subjects! The only problem we have is how long ago where these subjects placed in Mount Kadar?? Well we know a Chairman ordered New Hope to be closed but is it possible New Hope was around before the COG was created?

As for Myrrah well I have to agree with u on this one that she must be a descendant of one of the scientists at New Hope with knowledge of creating locusts! I may have posted something else stating that she is not but after reading ur main post again I have to agree with u on this one! Hopefully the slab will cover this

[Joveus]

No I can't and will refuse to believe they were some crazy genocidal race living underground for thousands and thousands of years! Like u said Epic have stated the answers are in the games therefore they must have been created at New Hope! If the scientists or whoever went with the subjects to Mount Kadar then one of them must have had a cure or whatever to neutralise imulsion sickness! I believe everything u have stated in your first posts and I also believe that at New Hope they found a way to neutralise rustlung! The locust must be the result of this but unfortunately for those working at New Hope as u know the facility was shut down due to the media being informed of the experiments being carried out! I believe like I mentioned in my previous post that these "subjects" were taken to Mount Kadar to be disposed of! Mount Kadars route was also cut off to prevent anyone reaching it surely this happened to prevent anyone coming in contact with the subjects once they where placed there! As u know in Gears 2 it was heavily guarded so surely this explains a lot that the locust must be these subjects! The only problem we have is how long ago where these subjects placed in Mount Kadar?? Well we know a Chairman ordered New Hope to be closed but is it possible New Hope was around before the COG was created?

As for Myrrah well I have to agree with u on this one that she must a descendant of one the scientists at New Hope with knowledge of creating locusts! I may have posted something else stating that she is not but after reading ur main post I have to agree with u on this one! Hopefully the slab will cover this

Thanks .

Another interesting thing that I've never seen mentioned is how exactly Prescott knew about New Hope.

Think about it...

Prescott "declassifies" the information about New Hope, but he didn't know about the Locust until long after E-Day and Hoffman said that New Hope "was like it doesn't exist" in the COG databases. Only Adam Fenix knew about the Locust, so Prescott must have got the information about New Hope from him. But where did Adam Fenix get the information from? Obviously he got the information from Myrrah. And why would Myrrah know about New Hope...?

Dun dun duuuuuun!

That's why the Locust turn up at New Hope, doods



Edit: I can't really leave a statement like this unsupported, soooooo

“I tried to persuade Myrrah to keep her people underground, but they couldn’t, so then-”
“Wait, wait, wait – did I hear right? The government knew E-Day was coming? And none of you bothered to warn us?”
“No, just me. Even Prescott didn’t know, not until much later.”
- Adam Fenix and Baird (Gears of War 3 – Act 5, Chapter 5: Ascension)

“Yes, I was already well aware that Queen Myrrah knew Adam Fenix, even if Marcus didn’t. I also knew why. I just didn’t know soon enough.”
- Prescott (Dirty Little Secrets – Part One)

At this point there is no reason to assume that either man is lying. Normally the default stance when dealing with Prescott is to assume he's lying, but in this case he's having a monologue so we can take his words as fact. The thing to take away from these quotes is that Prescott was not aware of what the Locust were or where they came from until he learned it from Adam Fenix much later. With Prescott gaining his Locust intel from Adam, Adam himself must have got the information from Myrrah, there's nowhere else he could have got it from.

Now it is possible that Prescott did wait until Operation: Hollow Storm before investigating New Hope, but this raises questions. Why wait until now to investigate this facility, considering how close to extinction humanity has become? What information would be left in the COG databases for Prescott to make the connection between New Hope and finding the Locust stronghold at Nexus? And the Locust presence at New Hope, is this simply the result of the Locust anticipating that the COG would return there at some point? For Prescott to pull his best team out of the major operation of the war and thrust them into a new situation, he must be pretty confident that they'll find something.

Adam Fenix and Prescott have been in communication throughout all three games, piggybacking their radio transmissions on the old weather satellites. If Adam Fenix travelled to Nexus during his tenure with the Locust, he would have travelled through the Hollow, not the surface. For this reason, even though he knew Nexus existed, he didn't know how to access it from the surface, or where exactly it was in relation to Jacinto. At some point though, he must have learned from the Locust about New Hope, but considering his attempts to try and save the Locust as well as humanity, he would have been incredibly reluctant to reveal what he knew to Prescott, still hoping he could find a cure to lambency.

But the one weakness Adam Fenix has is the safety of Marcus. At the same time as Delta is involved in Op: Hollow Storm and swallowed by the Riftworm, suddenly this information about the New Hope facility is revealed.

"Excuse me, sir, but what the hell? Just declassified? And what do you mean, a Locust queen?"
- Marcus (Gears of War 2 - Act 2, Chapter 6: Intestinal Fortitude)

Adam Fenix is the one that knows about Myrrah and New Hope, not Prescott, and it is not until Adam reveals this information to Prescott that he in turn reveals it to Delta. And the only reason Adam would know any of this is because Myrrah told him. Really, it makes sense for him to know. How could Adam be expected to save the Locust from lambency without first knowing their origins and biology?

[Mysterion Rises]

Thanks .

Another interesting thing that I've never seen mentioned is how exactly Prescott knew about New Hope.

Think about it...

Prescott "declassifies" the information about New Hope, but he didn't know about the Locust until long after E-Day and Hoffman said that New Hope "was like it doesn't exist" in the COG databases. Only Adam Fenix knew about the Locust, so Prescott must have got the information about New Hope from him. But where did Adam Fenix get the information from? Obviously he got the information from Myrrah. And why would Myrrah know about New Hope...?

Dun dun duuuuuun!

That's why the Locust turn up at New Hope, doods

Haha doods lol I believed that from the moment I played that scene where the locust turned up and Dom also said "what are the locust doing here"...............eh trying to stop u finding intel on their home capital duh.....

With the message at the end of Gears 2 from Adam Fenix it is obvious he informed Prescott of New Hope and I think that message might have been ment for Prescott (or not) Prescott ordered the sinking of Jacinto but he didnt have a choice the locust were going to sink Jacinto anyway so maybe........maybe that message was for......

Myrrah????

Adam knew flooding the hollow would cause some affect on the lambent life cycle that's why he sent this message and I believe it was ment for her! But she was desperate the lambent epidemic was getting worse especially after the lightmass bomb causing rustlung to humans just think of what rustlung was doing to the locusts underground! Surely if the message was for the humans that someone would have received it? But then again how would Myrrah receive it if her home is flooded

[Mysterion Rises]

Jov u still about I want up keep talking about this I'm excited lol

[A Lanky Cog]

Dude this I awesome I salute you!!

It's that good I fell asleep reading it ^^

[TheTrickHit]

Best theroy yet. Hopefully these idea's are confirmed in the next gears of war if there is too be a next one. GOW 4 could be set just before E-day.

[Mysterion Rises]

Best theroy yet. Hopefully these idea's are confirmed in the next gears of war if there is too be a next one. GOW 4 could be set just before E-day.

I hope so would love to play the battle of epyhra as Marcus when he decides to leave his post to save his father

[CMG070]

The locust have always been there. Marcus' mom once spoke about them in one of the books that she found baby spider-like things (corpsers) and she said that they could have probably grown easily over 2 meters tall.

[Savage Stranded]

So Locust are an Abomination? :'( I think they are a majestic people that could have lived side by side with the humans, if it weren't for the lambent.

[Joveus]

The locust have always been there. Marcus' mom once spoke about them in one of the books that she found baby spider-like things (corpsers) and she said that they could have probably grown easily over 2 meters tall.

I know it's a long read, but please look through my posts if you're going to post in the thread. The biology of the rock shrews is quite different from that of corpsers. They, or their larger cousins, are what would become Polyps. Beasts used by the Locust (rockworms, serapedes, kryll) have been around for a long time, but actual the humanoid Locust came from New Hope.

[AdvancedRanger]

Didnt it say in one of the books that the locust breed by chaining down a berserker and then they all have there way ?

or am i just imagining it.

[Joveus]

Didnt it say in one of the books that the locust breed by chaining down a berserker and then they all have there way ?

or am i just imagining it.

Something like that, but that's also addressed in the first posts of this very thread...

Are you guys even reading the first posts?

[Mysterion Rises]

Something like that, but that's also addressed in the first posts of this very thread...

Are you guys even reading the first posts?

Are u reading my posts lol we were talking bout new hope n the locust showing up

[Joveus]

After the recent influx of Myrrah-related threads I've overhauled the Myrrah section. I thought we'd reached the point where everyone had accepted that Myrrah was human, but I've made the edit for those that need convincing - especially those who believe Myrrah to be Ruth from New Hope.

I recently completed a quick comb-through of all the games, books and comics to see if there was any important quotes I've missed but I think I've got pretty much everything that is relevant. This'll be my last edit to the thread for a while, expect further revisions or a complete tear-down post-release of the Slab and Part 6 of Dirty Little Secrets (if Locust history is addressed in either )

[The Shrike]

Hey, I'm a long time lurker to these forums but until now never really had a reason to join or post anything. Do you realise what you've done? Seriously, you've cracked open a story that has been misunderstood by so many for so long that I wonder if EPIC thought anybody would ever figure it all out. I thought everything you said about the Lambent and New Hope was interesting, but I always thought Romily and Myrrah made your theory make no sense. After that last edit though, I'm 100% behind you on all of this, it all makes so much sense! I feel like I've had an epiphany or something, like everything I thought I knew has been turned upside down. You've even got the developers from EPIC themselves saying you got it right! NFI is right, you should post them at the very beginning of your thread so those who can't be bothered to read know what's going on. I thought that people would be reading this and treating it like the Da Vinci Code but the reaction has been subdued. You should've posted this in the main Gears of War 3 forum, you would've got way more views. I've seen theories that make way less sense get way more views because they were posted in the main Gears of War 3 forum.

Anyway I just wanted to say that this thread is like Metal Gear Solid 4 and thatit's made me want to go back and play through the whole thing again to see how many hints and clues are there. It must have took forever to quote everything! BUt it makes your argument watertight, so thank you there's fans like you to make fans like me more of a fan than I already am.

Edit 2: Sorry for all the edits but did you notice that when the Lambent Wretches turn up in Gears 1 the level is called Evolution? And when you go to New Hope and meet the Sires in Gears 2 the levels are called Dirty Little Secrets and Origins? These things were right in front of us the whole time! Evolution is about the Lambent being evolved Locust dur to imulsion way before they even expanded on the Lambent on Gears 2, and the Sires were called Origins which means EPIC was telling us where the Locust came from in Gears 2. It's so exciting figuring it all o9ut!

[sgtxmfenix]

in adam fenix's research he said the lambents lifecycle is a long period of dormancy *from long before gears 1* followed by a period of Accelerated activity *gears 3* before maturation? Their has to be some more powerful lambent wouldn't you think?

[NFI]

in adam fenix's research he said the lambents lifecycle is a long period of dormancy *from long before gears 1* followed by a period of Accelerated activity *gears 3* before maturation? Their has to be some more powerful lambent wouldn't you think?

Every lambent cell on sera was destroyed. The lambent in Gears 3 are NOT dormant, obviously, and Adam set off the counter before it reached a critical point. It was explicitly stated. There are no lambent or locust left. The "critical stage" comment was done to add levity to the situation to induce the feeling of desperation. Besides he never said they had to be matured or active for the parasite to be destroyed. All parasites in the game, dormant or no was destroyed. All of them. The only reason Delta lived is their infection level was low, so destroying the lambent cells didn't hurt them. Anything that crossed Over was made up of Lambent cells almost entirely, hence why they died when the countermeasure was set off, that fully lambent creature, like Adam, died. Their basic anatomy was all lambent, and thus destroyed.

The counter measure was set off in time and killed them. There will be no games or books where the lambent are still around. The wars done. Deltas story is one. There are no "more powerful lambent", or locust. Nothing even remotely supports this.

It's done.

[Lftdaporch]

brilliant thread

[The Shrike]

I've posted about this thread in the main Gears of War 3 forum. I really thing more people should be reading this, its like a sleeping giant.

[Mysterion Rises]

“Symptom: Ruth is clearly experiencing extreme swelling in her joints and frequently cries out in pain during the night. She also exhibits rather erratic and unpredictable behavior, though this is quite understandable considering her situation and symptoms. There is a strange discoloration in her eyes, and her breathing often sounds labored. Her nails grow at a faster rate than normal, though her hair grows at a markedly reduced rate. I'll keep trying to find some type of medication to alleviate her pain without adversely affecting our studies.”

- New Hope Medical File collectible (Gears of War 2 – Act 3, Chapter 2: Origins)

Joveus like I said before I agree 100% with ur theory and I think it's completely watertight. In regards to the collectable in gears 2 where it says "I'll keep trying to find some type of medication to alleviate her pain without adversely affecting our studies." maybe I might be looking way too much into this but do u think this medication that this scientist might have used cured Ruth? I'm not going against ur theory or anything u said dude its just a thought that was messing about in my head lol

[Joveus]

In regards to the collectable in gears 2 where it says "I'll keep trying to find some type of medication to alleviate her pain without adversely affecting our studies." maybe I might be looking way too much into this but do u think this medication that this scientist might have used cured Ruth?

Maybe, but I doubt it. If there's one thing that would definately count as "adversely affecting our studies", it would be that. Besides, I don't think Ruth was cured - she's there to show the player what was being studied at New Hope. I've addressed it before but if Ruth was cured why would they shut down New Hope and move the Locust to Mt. Kadar? If they had found a cure they'd be eagerly applying it to all the subjects, it wouldn't serve the COG in any way to wipe the whole facility from history. Secondly, if Ruth was also Myrrah, why would she struggle so much against the Lambent? She'd have the cure already, she wouldn't need Adam's help at all.

Myrrah is not Ruth, but she is descended from the scientists at New Hope. She is completely human, does not have imulsion contamination in her cells, is not turning Former and is in no way Locust, either whole or in part.

[Mysterion Rises]

Maybe, but I doubt it. If there's one thing that would definately count as "adversely affecting our studies", it would be that. Besides, I don't think Ruth was cured - she's there to show the player what was being studied at New Hope. I've addressed it before but if Ruth was cured why would they shut down New Hope and move the Locust to Mt. Kadar? If they had found a cure they'd be eagerly applying it to all the subjects, it wouldn't serve the COG in any way to wipe the whole facility from history. Secondly, if Ruth was also Myrrah, why would she struggle so much against the Lambent? She'd have the cure already, she wouldn't need Adam's help at all.

Myrrah is not Ruth, but she is descended from the scientists at New Hope. She is completely human, does not have imulsion contamination in her cells, is not turning Former and is in no way Locust, either whole or in part.

No ur completely right dude it couldn't have been a cure so I retract that post from earlier! I'm just trying to read through the lines so to speak about all the evidence that is available in the games! I'm just not sure about some things if u could explain it to me better? First the sires obviously were first then these "children" were second! Who are these children, I know they became the locust but who's children are they? Second question if they had rustlung wouldn't they turn into sires or whatever went on at New Hope prevented that from happening or where they just unlucky and were experimented on against their will?

I'd like u to know dude ur theory is perfect and I completely agree with everything u have said! This is completely watertight and for me there is no argument against it! Well done dude

[Joveus]

I'm just not sure about some things if u could explain it to me better? First the sires obviously were first then these "children" were second! Who are these children, I know they became the locust but who's children are they? Second question if they had rustlung wouldn't they turn into sires or whatever went on at New Hope prevented that from happening or where they just unlucky and were experimented on against their will?

First question - the "children" were the actual children of the infected miners. It was never specified in Dave Nash's comments, but they are either the children of Formers, or the children of Sires (Formers who were experimented on). Either way, they were born from lambent parents, which made them lambent from birth on a genetic level. Second question - Humans + Rustlung = Formers, Sires do not come about naturally, they are the result of experimentation.

Basically, rustlung and Formers were both around 100 years ago.

[Mysterion Rises]

First question - the "children" were the actual children of the infected miners. It was never specified in Dave Nash's comments, but they are either the children of Formers, or the children of Sires (Formers who were experimented on). Either way, they were born from lambent parents, which made them lambent from birth on a genetic level. Second question - Humans + Rustlung = Formers, Sires do not come about naturally, they are the result of experimentation.

Basically, rustlung and Formers were both around 100 years ago.

So basically if humans + rustlung = formers and sires are an experiment on these formers then wouldn't formers have came first before sires? If the sires are Neanderthals to the locust then wouldn't the formers be first because these humans were the first ones infected? I'm just confused I'm sorry dude just for me if formers are infected humans with rustlung then these "children" must be from the formers not the sires as we have seen with the picture of Ruth she looks completely human who isn't lambent like the formers! Like u said sires are experiment on these infected humans with rustlung! Rustlung back then didn't turn humans into formers they were just infected like Barrick but obviously in gears 3 formers are humans with lambency that has reached a higher stage in its life cycle therefore formers are humans with the lambency parasite, rustlung is an infection from imulsion vapour??

I apologise for all these questions and by no means I am going against ur theory just these things are confusing me and I need to make sure they are accurate

[Joveus]

So basically if humans + rustlung = formers and sires are an experiment on these formers then wouldn't formers have came first before sires? If the sires are Neanderthals to the locust then wouldn't the formers be first because these humans were the first ones infected? I'm just confused I'm sorry dude just for me if formers are infected humans with rustlung then these "children" must be from the formers not the sires as we have seen with the picture of Ruth she looks completely human who isn't lambent like the formers! Like u said sires are experiment on these infected humans with rustlung! Rustlung back then didn't turn humans into formers they were just infected like Barrick but obviously in gears 3 formers are humans with lambency that has reached a higher stage in its life cycle therefore formers are humans with the lambency parasite, rustlung is an infection from imulsion vapour??

I apologise for all these questions and by no means I am going against ur theory just these things are confusing me and I need to make sure they are accurate

Yup, Formers came first, then they gathered up people with Rustlung to find a cure to turning into Formers, in the process they created the Sires. The Locust came along after that. The picture of Ruth is from the beginning of her studies, and the description in the collectible describes the process of turning Former. The COG wouldn't go through the effort of creating New Hope to find a way of curing rustlung, but lambency/Formers, that definately warrants a super-secret facility.

- The Formers were humans who were overexposed to imulsion.
- The Sires were created by accident in an attempt to cure the Formers.
- The Locust were the offspring of those who became the Sires.
- The Lambent were Locust who were overexposed to imulsion.

Simples.

[The Shrike]

- The Formers were humans who were overexposed to imulsion.
- The Sires were created by accident in an attempt to cure the Formers.
- The Locust were the offspring of those who became the Sires.
- The Lambent were Locust who were overexposed to imulsion.

Talk about reducing a complex origin story for multiple species to its base componants. You should delete everything in your first 3 posts and replace it with these four lines . Seiously though, that's like a mantra for your whole argument.