Overarching question: Is late NG as hard as late OG?
- I say no, but will welcome and document any further counterarguments in the OP (which is still very behind I know).
1. You need much higher magic to get to better re-cast rate. In NG^5, 100 magic points takes about 43sec to re-cast, 400 takes about 23sec (tested against Thane v3 with resistance gem, no block or dodge or parry at all). In OG 100 magic takes 19sec to recast (what I read from your research)
- In OG you need 250 MP to cure yourself to full, which means you are wasting that extra 150 MP in terms of extra MP regen you are not getting. So if anything this fact makes NG even easier because you have a higher cap for magic regen, which no doubt reflects the extra value of cycling through your magic at almost the same rate in OG. In OG I only use 20.3k HP but in late NG you can easily get 50k HP. Also, I assume that if I was using your same timing methodology (you are comparing two different testing environments) I think that your 23 would equal my 19. But even if I'm wrong and OG has slightly faster magic regen cycles (which I think is unlikely), taking an extra 4 seconds to cure an extra 30k HP is more than worth it.
The same concept is used with elixirs—they have more value later on, as reflected in their price, since they are curing a larger amount. In OG you can cure yourself to full with exactly 250MP and all your stats in health. I suspect that you need at least 400MP to cure yourself to full in your NG condition and so needing to meet a higher cap doesn't matter if you need to use 2 good magic gems anyway.
2. I don't know how Voice can beat lvl 5000 shade with bearly character level 600+, seems impossible to me.
- Then you would say the same about about rebirth 1,000 where all common enemies are 5,000+.
3. About shield points, you only need 1 shield point left to fully block damage. So a shield regen potion will solve the problem for light, and a parry or taken hit will allow another block for heavy.
- I've never thought of that but it does make light weapons more of a realistic option for boss-fighting in NG. In OG shield regen doesn't really matter since you have a lot of shield points and you can't even feel the 1 point/2.5 seconds.
4. I believe OG has 372 stats points (not 272).
- Yes it is 372 thank you.
OG has more stats points than 372 because:
- NG stats points = base stats points + 5 (attack from sword) + 8 (health from armor) = base stats + 13
- OG stats points = 372 + 2(1 atk and 1 health when level 1) + 245(weapon) + 25(helm) + 100(armor) + 1650+(11 attack gems) + benefits from (80% health heal every 20sec) = 2394+ stats points + benefits
- By your analysis, the OG Shade is permanently harder once your total number of stat points in NG goes above 2,381.
- In addition, in NG, health is used for first 3 fights without healing (you can always get a full health potion after 3rd titan)
- Yes, this is what validates the Zen garden as the hardest part of the NG cycle. To simulate this in OG you would need the discipline not to use cure when fighting the Shade. The Kabuki doesn't count since coming from IB1 that's an easy kill (defanged wood jester), but NG has a way of leaving you at the Ronin's feet with almost nothing, making the Ronin arguably harder than the shade. This epic trio is why I have repeated stated a fantasy of a permanent minigame being stuck in too high of a NG and then only buying grinder weapons and maybe a Shield Halo and staying there. Getting past the Ronin can be a lot of fun. The problem is that it takes a lot of skill to put yourself in an impossible NG situation because if you pad your stats too much you won't be able to change the difficulty enough. I admire Voice for being so late when hitting the 604 bug (practically NG^100) because you can tell he was really trying to make the game harder.
So you can see ratio is not so relevant here because OG has 2394 stats points with level 81 (gives you a high ratio).
- You can't use that same analysis for the ratios because the ratios are for the GK fight and not the Shade fight. The GK fight is the easiest point of NG and the hardest point of OG. So that considering, having the GK fight as a ratio counterbalances any OG advantages.
More on that, about 1/13 stats points need to be in magic for heal to be effective at all (health-attack-magic ratio of 2-10-1)
- But you need that extra MP anyway to cure your higher HP amount.
But it's a fact that once your average total stats are well beyond that of anything possible in OG, then that NG and every NG after that is necessarily going to have easier GK fights. And that's all anyone is talking about when we say ratios.