My honest thoughts on the Gears 3 MP (mature discussion for Epic Staff) LONG READ!!

[breaking kneecaps]

Everyone likes to tout their veteran status when they argue for or against something pertaining to any series they care about. So it goes without saying that I'm posting here as a DAY ONE Gears of War Veteran player. I own all three Limited Edition releases and can verify that with various images, on the fly if called upon to do so. I love and adore this series. I love Gears for its characters, its fictional universe, its technically impressive presentation for our current console hardware, and for the love that shows through from the developer itself, Epic Games Inc.


Every time I play a Gears game, I can literally feel the care that the team at Epic slathered over this franchise. They love Gears as much as the passionate fans like us do. Therefore, it's disheartening to see so much venom thrown around on these boards towards the people who slave over making us happy. These are the people who got us all here in the first place. Voicing one's opinion on a public forum, which is as leniently moderated as this one is, should come with a great deal of personal responsibility. We need to conduct ourselves in the most mature and honorable way possible and we need to also be mindful of how others may passionately disagree with any notion we put forth.


That said; I feel that Gears of War 3 is clearly the best game in the trilogy on every front. I think that it's very rare to see a trilogy come together so cohesively and end on a high note, whether it be in the film, video game, or storytelling realm. Epic made it happen ONLY because they cared so much about getting it right. Since this is the multiplayer forum, I will simply move on to discuss what I think of the current MP situation and create new topics of discussion on other subjects where appropriate.


For at least 4 weeks, I've merely watched and read countless assessments put forth by others, only to not weigh in and have my voice heard. I didn't want to throw out a knee-jerk reaction in response to something I disagreed with without truly thinking things through from all sides. Gears deserves thought and logic applied to it when discussed and I feel that way only because of how important this series is to me. Unlike the previous two Gears of War games, Gears of War 3 had an openly accessible Beta that the community could test and give feedback on prior to release. This was a great idea and I think it is the reason why Epic got the Multiplayer right this time. Yes, I just said the release version of Gears 3 MP was right on the money. Every weapon had its advantages that made it viable. Every weapon was kept "in check" by another weapon. In the first two games, my dear Gnasher Shotgun was all I needed. I hit left on the d-pad and willingly dropped my Lancer for the pickup weapon of my choosing on both games. The majority of the time, I just disregarded pickups completely and rolled with the Gnasher/wallbounce/gib festival. I earned my skills at that style of play because there were honestly no other dimensions to delve into. Gears 1 and 2 were Gnasher centric. If you didn't use the Gnasher, you failed because there were no other effective options by comparison. I earned my stripes and mastered the Gnasher and the rest was history.


What people don't realize is, Gears 3 is no less Gnasher centric than the first two games -- you just have to pay attention to what weapon loadout the rest of the opposition has this time. Why? Because in Gears 3, the other primary weapons were worked on and balanced properly enough to actually be useful for once. That is a Godsend for me. I prefer the more dynamic gameplay that keeps me on my toes. I like the thrill of playing against SOS users, Retro users, Sir Lancer-a-Lots, and of course other skilled Gnasher veterans. What Gears 3 had that the first two games didn't is variety. I love winning a Gnasher battle as much as the next guy, but the other weapons are put in the game for a reason. They are meant to be useful enough to stop me, should I choose to run around with just my Gnasher for more than 50% of the time. They are meant to be useful enough to stop anyone who is playing in a predictably one-dimensional style with any particular weapon. From my experience, Epic nailed it.


-SOS/Retro thoughts:

For the official record, I use the Gnasher/Lancer loadout exclusively in Gears 3. I do not use the Retro Lancer or the Sawed-Off Shotgun. I'm well on my way to an Onyx Gnasher (4316 kills), which I attribute to playing so much Gears 1 and 2 with it. However, I think the SOS complaints have been unwarranted since Day one. If I could see my own K/D ratio against SOS users, then I'd be quite amused. From my own experiences dealing with SOS users, it's not even close. I know that the Gnasher is MUCH more powerful than the SOS, provided the Gnasher wielder really knows what he's doing. The pre-patch SOS (retail gib range) was perfectly easy to best: It has only ONE shot at a time. It still has painfully short range. It has an eternally long reload time. And it has limited ammo unless you manage to pick up ammo that a dead SOS user leaves behind. This is all before Epic even saw fit to reduce the gun's Gib range to match the Gnasher on 10/11/11. In my opinion, the SOS has only ever been viable for when a person can blindside you from either behind or around a corner. And in cases like those, I can do the same thing with my Gnasher -- gib you and move on. The SOS doesn't have to be aimed. But neither does a Gnasher in the cases where the SOS is effective. Epic should know the things I've stated are correct on this subject. I've been playing Gears 3 daily since release day and Gears 1 and 2 were mastered for years. But I'm just one devoted fan whose voice they'll probably never hear. The Gib range reduction was moot. Especially when we consider just how it solved nothing when it comes to SOS complaints from my vocal Gnasher community.


As for the Retro Lancer, the gun is good from mid-range only. In the right hands, sure it can down from slightly longer range. But it has a pretty long reload time and only a medium sized clip. This allows for a good player to avoid being downed outright from long range Retro fire. From long range, you need to make your shots count with the Retro, otherwise a good player will find some cover before you can down him. From short to medium range, you have a lot of power. The gun can down quite fast at that range. But the Retro bucks like no one's business. So if you don't fire in short, controlled bursts, you are going to be spraying air. It has a one hit kill Retro charge, but the charge is so blatantly telegraphed that you deserve the fatal consequence if you get caught by it. The bottom line is, this weapon requires skill to be effective and does not deserve the complaining being levied against it either. So, after having offered my opinions on the two guns everyone calls "nooby" in Gears 3, I can truly say that said description is virtually unwarranted. Now that this is out of the way....


-A tangent, that is relevant to the why the complaints exist:


It is plainly clear to me that what people don't like is having to ADAPT. I notice that with every sequel, in this day and age of the internet forum soapbox, there is ALWAYS a small, but vocal group expressing dissent with change in general. Do people truly expect to pay for the same game or product over and over again, just with new packaging? Well I sure as Hell don't, quite frankly. If Epic created Gears 3 with no ambition and just released a rehash with mere cosmetic changes, then I would immediately see that the heart and ingenuity was gone from the developer. And that would end my long allegiance to the franchise on the spot, meaning no more day one premium edition buys, no more DLC purchases, no more XBL play, etc. People complaining about the new weapons that Epic put in so much time and effort to implement are just complaining because they are so incredibly resistant to change. So many people in today's society want quick, easy, and effortless gratification. Well I think that truly learning how to play Gears 3 as its own game was very rewarding, personally. The problem is not the SOS, the Retro, or the Lancer, Etc. It never was either. It is clear that most complaints about Gears 3 MP are coming from a group of my fellow veterans who feel a bit too "entitled" to have their way. The fact that I know how many variables I have to deal with in any given multiplayer session of Gears 3 now VS. in Gears 1/2, speaks volumes about how well Epic did when making each primary weapon truly viable. It will be a real shame to see the downward spiral begin towards making Gears 3 more one dimensional. I don't want to see that, and I don't even use the weapons people are so entrenched against.


As it stands, there seem to be a vast majority of my fellow Gnasher users who are on a crusade to get Epic to throttle this game's diversity and reduce it into a rehash of some sort. I love my Gnasher as much or MORE than the devoted Gnasher fanbase who has been so vocal here. But I do see the merit in what Epic achieved with their extra time, effort, and consideration when creating the final game in this Gears story arc. I want to see other weapons pose a threat or challenge to my Gnasher game. Even if I can decimate most of the SOS users I come across, or get around Retro users who usually spray and pray, I still enjoy the dynamic of having to change my approach to handle them. I actually have to use my assault rifle, use all three variants of Grenades, and even occasionally pull out my Snub Pistol now!! It truly is a great experience. I really was content with how Gears 3 had evolved, and to me that evolution as a team based game was for the better. A Gnasher duel with a fellow Veteran is still quite common from my experience in Gears 3 TDM, and I get to have that, plus variety. Perhaps it's only wishful thinking that people could stop making excuses for their own shortcomings and persevere. Show some resiliency, Gearheads. Since when do we whine when the going gets tough? We suck it up, post our thoughts, and deal with adversity with our skill sets.


For every Gnasher fan who has complained about Gears 3's MP; Epic heard you guys. Even though they probably won't hear me, I do sincerely hope that they understand what I understand about the origin of the complaints they are getting. Epic should know that they actually got Gears 3 MP right and made all the weapons they incorporated into it actually have some usefulness. This is a testament to why so much complaining exists about certain weapons and what segment of the community the complaints actually come from. Gears 3 is no less about the Gnasher than Gears 1 and 2 were. Gears 3 is just also about the other primary weapons too. Gears 3 is based on effective teamwork and was clearly designed as such. The emphasis on teamwork was profoundly augmented from Gears 1 to Gears 2 to Gears 3. A lone wolf running around with a Gnasher trying to show off how "1337" they are by clutching every game, is going to have serious problems when facing a team who knows what they're doing in Gears 3, regardless of weapon setups. I know this from early experience. I chose to suck it up and ADAPT to the new dynamics. I've always been like that, so maybe I'm just in the minority. If that's the case, then I will proudly stay out of the majority then.


In closing, my recommendation is that Epic does not directly OR indirectly remove the Sawed-Off Shotgun or the Retro Lancer. There is absolutely nothing wrong with either of them. If anything, the SOS is virtually useless as a shotgun, since a Gnasher can do everything the same except Gib multiple enemies in one shot. What the Gnasher can do instead is clutch because it gives second chances to Gib multiple enemies, unlike the SOS. The Gnasher has an active reload that is actually quite formidable, and increases its range/damage. The Gnasher allows for 8 shots, all of which can Gib before a relatively FAST active reload becomes accessible. 16 shots starting out vs. only 4 for the SOS. My point is, the Gnasher is beastly. Epic's stats provide proof that most people know that to be true as well. As the for the Lancer, it has finally become useful after so long. This is the weapon that Epic envisioned as the Gears of War flagship weapon. Now it is finally as formidable as it should be, which is appropriately correct.


-My pitch to hopefully make the air more stable:


My personal solution to solve the complaints = making a permanent All Gnasher Shotgun playlist. Yeah, it's sort of like the Hardcore weekend setup that we had not too long ago. The developers should not single out the new weapons they spent so much time incorporating and designing for Gears of War 3 by making a "Classic Playlist" which excludes just them only. These weapons (Retro and SOS) are effectively used and designed for the Story, Arcade, and Horde modes too. For consistency's sake, Epic should consider that much. If we want to play Gears 1 or Gears 2, then we can (and still do) play those games. Epic gave us a Gears 3 Beta, so we knew full well what was in store for us with these new weapons and changes in MP. What I hope Epic understands is that it is my fellow devoted Gnasher fans who have an agenda to get the Gnasher back to being the sole viable weapon for nearly every single situation.


Some of us want to be able to have our Gnasher duels without the heightened awareness it takes to deal with the varied Gears 3 loadouts. If we just had a Gnasher-only playlist (yes JUST THE GNASHER, not even the Lancer or any of the other primary weapons should be made as pickups), then the people who just want to duel with only their Gnasher on the Gears 3 dedicated servers can go at it to see who the best Gnasher wielder/team is. I don't think it's fair at all to directly or indirectly circumvent/destroy the sense of "new" that this new game has brought to the millions upon millions of fans out there who don't post on forums. So I don't want the SOS or Retro singled out and removed, either directly or indirectly. As stated before, there is nothing wrong with those two weapons at all in my opinion. I doubt I am alone in the end.


A permanent Gnasher-only playlist with just the usual pickup weapons would be less likely to kill the community. Nor would it split up a community that is already "perceived" to be severed due to the dissenting opinion of a segment of the community who prefers maining the Gnasher alone. Give us the Gnasher, a smoke grenade, and a Snub. Remove the other primary weapons from the playlist completely and don't make them pickups at all. That will give the original Gears 3 playlists some degree of merit to retain. Keep the normal lineup of map pickup weapons intact and go from there with just the Gnasher, Smoke, and Snub loadout. That would give Gnasher users our festival of Gnasher gibs and wallbouncing with almost no interference, while also preserving the intended meaning of Gears of War 3's multiplayer for the rest of its playlists.


Personally, I want Gears 3 to be Gears THREE. I don't plan to buy the same game over and over again, so I appreciate and truly understand what Epic brought to the table with this game on 9/20/11. The best thing that could be done to keep Gears 3's identity intact, while attempting to appease the Gnasher fans is to make a playlist for just that weapon alone. Any other solution is really only going to create an erosion of this game's diversity and identity. That would not bode well for future games or for many of the silently observing dedicated fans who have not yet spoken out.


I am quite fearful that Epic will remove the variety and diversity from the Gears 3 MP experience. I saw the game as pretty well balanced from retail, with only a mild Scorcher damage increase (plus a possible Hammerburst adjustment of some sort) needed. There is absolutely no malice coming from me towards any of you out there who will surely disagree with my sentiments. I will not insult any of you, nor will I take part in any immature name calling or insinuations. My hope is for you guys to be happy, but there is probably no way to please everyone. And even though that may be true, please understand and appreciate the fact that Epic has tried in earnest to do the impossible for us -- they've tried to please everybody, which is a commendable exercise in futility.


Thanks a lot to anyone who has taken the time to hear me out. I hope Cliff, Rod, Lee, Quinn, or any staff member close to them will give this message a bit of consideration. It's just coming from the heart of a dedicated Gears of War fan whose patronage began in November 2006. As for my fellow fans, have at it, but keep it clean and respectful. If this initial message is too long to read, then just know that Gears of War means a great deal to me and accept my apology in advance.

[Masterphailure]

My lord, this was the most amazing wall of text I have ever read. Nice to see a good attitude in a forum full of complainers.

Gears 3 should be Gears 3, not Gears 1.5. The diversity of weapons, the new situations you encounter, it's what makes a sequel enjoyable. For some reason, everyone wants to play the same game over and over again, just shotgunning each other. I would rather counter new and old weapons successfully instead of killing everyone with Gnashers only.

Overall, amazing post and I hope Epic smiles upon reading your thoughts.

[VegetAryan]

I hope the next Gears is a turn-based RPG, if you don't like it it's because you can't adapt.

[itsallgoingHoff]

well said and finally a little maturity in this place

[raamfan]

Thank you for not saying I suck and I'm a noob for loving my SOS, or that it should be removed from the game.

I like the way the SOS works, I think it looks cool, and I simply prefer double-barreled shotguns (hearkens back to Doom 2)

[calamity magnum]

Can I just say i love you? I was fine with gears 3 out of the box. When they nerfed the sawed off i was made they made it easier for me to kill them i didnt think it was fair to the users of the sawed off to be jipped because the were using the new gun. Does the retro make me rage sometimes o hell yea! but guess what i like to rage at gears the game is emotional to play you get into this game thats why you rage and it isn't a stupid broken game rage its a G@d D@mn it i just got schooled i will get that mother trucker. Blowing people away getting blown away thats the fun of gears Thank you Epic

[GoldenRAAM]

excellent thread

[TTLD SHOWTIME]

Great post, you do deserve to be listened/read by Epic. I do agree with everything you stated. Although I have to state that it is much more frustrating to die from a SOS than from every other weapon, in my opinion. I just have the feelling that I was killed by some guy that didn't even needed to aim at me, he just looked at me and BAM!! That exact same scenario happens with the gnasher and I don't feel so frustrated, I don't know why...

[Anonymous ONI agt.]

I hope the next Gears is a turn-based RPG, if you don't like it it's because you can't adapt.

Ok, I will.

@ OP, I love you (no homo).

[Broomhandle45]

I loved reading this, I agree 100%

[IMPEND1NG DOOM]

Ive read the same thread 1000 times this one is just articulated in a nicer fashion. for those of you who didn't read it, this is what I gleaned: He likes the way gears 3 is now and he liked the previous 2 gears but he doesn't want the new one to be like the others. He is afraid that EPIC will mess up the game trying to please the community and, this is the part where it all began to fall apart for me, he said we need to adapt. We have adapted OP, and we don't like it, that is why we are here on the forums voicing our opinions. I don't hate the sos because it kills me all the time I hate it because if I don't want to die via sos users then I am forced to play a certain way. The more sos users there are in a game the more restricted I am in my ability to move freely from a tactical standpoint. I understand where you are coming from but you have to understand both sides of the story you're trying to tell here. Not all "veterans" are carbon clones of one another, we don't all feel the same about the franchise. Sure, I don't want the exact same game again and I like the variation this one has given us but I also don't like where the game is headed due to the new weapons that were added. I, given the choice, would much rather have gears 2.5 than a rifle/sos fest, which I end up in the middle of all to often.

[breakfast]

Wow, I read these forums a lot but I never post anything. As someone who played gears 1 and 2, but loves gears 3 and loves using the SOS I am a hated minority. This was very well put.

Gears of war is much more about teamwork and decision-making over anything else. SOS does not ruin the game at all, it simply changes the way you have to think, the only thing the SOS "ruins" are the constant gnasher battles, even though gow is not all about who can use one specific gun better than someone else. Think of it like Starcraft (i know an rts is different than a shooter, but hear me out), in starcraft you have to both outplay as well as out think your opponent in order to win. The same goes for GOW. The gnasher veterans are only focusing on the outplaying part. Being really good with the gnasher is great, but its not what the whole game is about, at least it shouldn't be. That's like being really good at making free-throws in basketball. Its great, it will help you get a lot of points, but its not the focus of the game. Teamwork and out thinking the other team, knowing what to do in any situation, that's how you play gears. At least that's how I've always felt.

gnasher veterans feel free to quote me and tell me Im dumb/noob/etc.

[TheInterpreter]

Agreed. That's all.

[Markus Leoninus]

An extraordinary post, well thought out and stated with objectivity, depth, and uber-readability.
Neither you nor anyone else here need apologize for threads/posts of this caliber, no matter their magnitude.
My only complaint, if I had one, is that guys of your cool, calm, and collected mind do not post more often.
Thanks for so carefully thinking all this over, and taking the time to state it so well.

[Crosshair?]

Holy sh*t, did I just stumble upon a thread that makes sense?

[VegetAryan]

Ive read the same thread 1000 times this one is just articulated in a nicer fashion. for those of you who didn't read it, this is what I gleaned: He likes the way gears 3 is now and he liked the previous 2 gears but he doesn't want the new one to be like the others. He is afraid that EPIC will mess up the game trying to please the community and, this is the part where it all began to fall apart for me, he said we need to adapt. We have adapted OP, and we don't like it, that is why we are here on the forums voicing our opinions. I don't hate the sos because it kills me all the time I hate it because if I don't want to die via sos users then I am forced to play a certain way. The more sos users there are in a game the more restricted I am in my ability to move freely from a tactical standpoint. I understand where you are coming from but you have to understand both sides of the story you're trying to tell here. Not all "veterans" are carbon clones of one another, we don't all feel the same about the franchise. Sure, I don't want the exact same game again and I like the variation this one has given us but I also don't like where the game is headed due to the new weapons that were added. I, given the choice, would much rather have gears 2.5 than a rifle/sos fest, which I end up in the middle of all to often.

Trust me dude, the Halo bros aren't going to pay attention to any of this. Somehow, somewhere in the decaying mush of their brains, "even though I do well, the playstyle that these weapons promote isn't enjoyable, and it isn't what I'd expect from the Gears franchise" turns into "HURRRR I DIE FROM SAWED OFF NONSTOP I NEED YOUR STUPID TIPS"

[Ashe Darkthorne]

Ive read the same thread 1000 times this one is just articulated in a nicer fashion. for those of you who didn't read it, this is what I gleaned: He likes the way gears 3 is now and he liked the previous 2 gears but he doesn't want the new one to be like the others. He is afraid that EPIC will mess up the game trying to please the community and, this is the part where it all began to fall apart for me, he said we need to adapt. We have adapted OP, and we don't like it, that is why we are here on the forums voicing our opinions. I don't hate the sos because it kills me all the time I hate it because if I don't want to die via sos users then I am forced to play a certain way. The more sos users there are in a game the more restricted I am in my ability to move freely from a tactical standpoint. I understand where you are coming from but you have to understand both sides of the story you're trying to tell here. Not all "veterans" are carbon clones of one another, we don't all feel the same about the franchise. Sure, I don't want the exact same game again and I like the variation this one has given us but I also don't like where the game is headed due to the new weapons that were added. I, given the choice, would much rather have gears 2.5 than a rifle/sos fest, which I end up in the middle of all to often.

This is from the dictionary.

Adapt [uh-dapt]  
Example Sentences Origin
a·dapt   [uh-dapt] Show IPA
verb (used with object)
1.
to make suitable to requirements or conditions; adjust or modify fittingly: They adapted themselves to the change quickly. He adapted the novel for movies.
verb (used without object)
2.
to adjust oneself to different conditions, environment, etc.: to adapt easily to all circumstances.

NO ONE WHO HAS COMPLAINED ABOUT THE WEAPONS HAS DONE THIS!!! They cried and moaned and now are dictators to what everyone else plays with.

[VegetAryan]

Good lord, case in point.

[Crammer]

This is from the dictionary.

Adapt [uh-dapt]  
Example Sentences Origin
a·dapt   [uh-dapt] Show IPA
verb (used with object)
1.
to make suitable to requirements or conditions; adjust or modify fittingly: They adapted themselves to the change quickly. He adapted the novel for movies.
verb (used without object)
2.
to adjust oneself to different conditions, environment, etc.: to adapt easily to all circumstances.

NO ONE WHO HAS COMPLAINED ABOUT THE WEAPONS HAS DONE THIS!!! They cried and moaned and now are dictators to what everyone else plays with.

with all do respect, your a complete and under (insert offensive word here). People have adapted they just find that playstyle boring.This isn't dinosaur times where it's literally life or death, its a videogame. Playing your way is just straight up boring.

[IMPEND1NG DOOM]

This is from the dictionary.

Adapt [uh-dapt]  
Example Sentences Origin
a·dapt   [uh-dapt] Show IPA
verb (used with object)
1.
to make suitable to requirements or conditions; adjust or modify fittingly: They adapted themselves to the change quickly. He adapted the novel for movies.
verb (used without object)
2.
to adjust oneself to different conditions, environment, etc.: to adapt easily to all circumstances.

NO ONE WHO HAS COMPLAINED ABOUT THE WEAPONS HAS DONE THIS!!! They cried and moaned and now are dictators to what everyone else plays with.

I think you misunderstood me: I fit that definition in every way. I have completely altered my playstyle to play against the new weapons effectively, but I am no longer enjoying the franchise as I was before, meaning that I do not like the playstyle that those guns have caused me to resort to.

[Ashe Darkthorne]

with all do respect, your a complete and under (insert offensive word here). People have adapted they just find that playstyle boring, this isn't dinosaur times where it's literally life or death, its a videogame. It's just straight up boring to play that way.

The truth is there in black and white and if you feel the need to call names that must mean you prove my point. Oh and spellcheck it works.

[raamfan]

Is your solution to remove my favorite gun in the game? I don't want your Gnasher playstyle forced on me either.

[Crammer]

The truth is there in black and white and if you feel the need to call names that must mean you prove my point. Oh and spellcheck it works.

it's a knee jerk reaction to posts like yours. Spell check what? lol and for the record didn't call you names thats what that parentheses are for, for you to fill in the rest.

oh and doesn't mean i agree cause i called you a "name"

[IMPEND1NG DOOM]

Spellcheck doesnt pick up minor grammatical errors, only spelling errors and there are many other colors besides black and white, everyone feels differently than others. You cant just lump everyone into 2 categories.

[Ashe Darkthorne]

I think you misunderstood me: I fit that definition in every way. I have completely altered my playstyle to play against the new weapons effectively, but I am no longer enjoying the franchise as I was before, meaning that I do not like the playstyle that those guns have caused me to resort to.

No i understood what you have said but for anyone who has complained and cried about the weapons in any way and chooses not to play a different style suited to gameplay is not adapting to it and wants it changed. I did not enjoy gnasher battles and seeing people hog valuable playtime when their the last two trying to one up one another when Their teams are wanting the win and to continue on. If you wanted to enjoy said franchise as before keep those multi-player areas alive by playing those games. Do not have other people who enjoy Gears 3 as is have to pay for those that need to be catered to.

[Ashe Darkthorne]

it's a knee jerk reaction to posts like yours. Spell check what? lol and for the record didn't call you names thats what that parentheses are for, for you to fill in the rest.

As I said the TRUTH is there in black and white.

[Ashe Darkthorne]

it's a knee jerk reaction to posts like yours. Spell check what? lol and for the record didn't call you names thats what that parentheses are for, for you to fill in the rest.

As I said the TRUTH is there in black and white.

[IMPEND1NG DOOM]

The truth is there in black and white and if you feel the need to call names that must mean you prove my point. Oh and spellcheck it works.

This is why we want a playlist for the gnasher, so everyone can be happy playing how they want to (Yea I know its not possible for everyone to be happy but it will solve some problems)

[IMPEND1NG DOOM]

As I said the TRUTH is there in black and white.

Ahh my mistake.

[Ashe Darkthorne]

This is why we want a playlist for the gnasher, so everyone can be happy playing how they want to (Yea I know its not possible for everyone to be happy but it will solve some problems)

No having a playlist for the gnasher is not a big deal for me. It is the fact that now with this Alpha playlist all the gnasher playlist people dictate what happens in game. That is the severity of the problem. I do not have an issue with a permanent playlist for the gnasher just leave the rest alone.

[breaking kneecaps]

Just want to say thanks for the very, very kind comments I received here. To be honest, it is relatively surprising, but greatly appreciated.

We are all Gears fans here, so I do welcome disagreement as long as some effort is made to actually participate in a thoughtful and mature way.

[breaking kneecaps]

Ive read the same thread 1000 times this one is just articulated in a nicer fashion. for those of you who didn't read it, this is what I gleaned: He likes the way gears 3 is now and he liked the previous 2 gears but he doesn't want the new one to be like the others. He is afraid that EPIC will mess up the game trying to please the community and, this is the part where it all began to fall apart for me, he said we need to adapt. We have adapted OP, and we don't like it, that is why we are here on the forums voicing our opinions. I don't hate the sos because it kills me all the time I hate it because if I don't want to die via sos users then I am forced to play a certain way. The more sos users there are in a game the more restricted I am in my ability to move freely from a tactical standpoint. I understand where you are coming from but you have to understand both sides of the story you're trying to tell here. Not all "veterans" are carbon clones of one another, we don't all feel the same about the franchise. Sure, I don't want the exact same game again and I like the variation this one has given us but I also don't like where the game is headed due to the new weapons that were added. I, given the choice, would much rather have gears 2.5 than a rifle/sos fest, which I end up in the middle of all to often.

Well, unfortunately, you've made a several mistakes here. For one, you "gleaned" no real grasp of anything I presented. Why should I even bother to fully assess what you have to say in return? There is no need for you to partially or incorrectly interpret my message for me, since I'd rather speak for myself in that case. Other people don't need you to translate English. I'd rather they read my own words or ignore them instead, to be bluntly honest. If they want a Cliff Notes version, then I'd rather provide it myself. People like that are probably not the type to care about keeping this a meaningful or thoughtful discussion in the first place.


For two, you consider anyone who agrees with you as "part of the community" while possessing zero knowledge of just how long the people who disagree with you have been a part of Epic's loyal consumer base. You are making a very big mistake that I hope Epic will not make themselves. You may disregard everyone who disagrees with you and feel entitled for some reason or another. But it is wise to first know what you are actually disagreeing about and where you stand in relation to who you disagree with.


Lastly, I am a Gnasher veteran who has nothing to prove at this point in terms of how comfortable I am with my skill level. Put modestly, I trust my own game against the SOS and Retro users out there. If you need some help getting your game to that point, then I'd sincerely help you out. If not, then be mindful that I did indeed suggest a 'Gnasher-only' playlist for people like you (and I) to have as an alternative playlist to go to at our behest. It's too bad that you chose not to even glance at that. Lately, it seems that all people understand are inane personal attacks. I can tell it took a lot for you to even respond to this thread without resorting to such conduct, Impend1ng DOOM.


We all love Gears of War. So cool your jets, put on your thinking cap, and try. Disagreement keeps the world from stagnation. It is how people disagree and where they go from there that makes all the difference. Thanks for the bump.

This is why we want a playlist for the gnasher, so everyone can be happy playing how they want to (Yea I know its not possible for everyone to be happy but it will solve some problems)

If you bothered to read the initial post before making a knee-jerk comment in this thread, then you'd be aware of my pitch for that. I am actually trying to help the "true Gears fans" like you out. It helps to try to see all sides of a situation in front of you before jumping to a conclusion. Being short-sighted would not do myself or anyone else any good here.

[DenyThisFlesh]

Excellent thread. I hate the sawed-off, but I understand why it was added. Now with the alpha playlist I can play matches without it, which is great. The rifles are all fine and I really enjoy using the Lancer now that it's a truly effective weapon. The Gnasher is better than ever too. I've never understood all the hate thrown at Epic. Gears 3 is the best game I've ever played and I've been gaming for almost 25 years.

[Crammer]

Unfortunately, you've made a few mistakes here. For one, you "gleaned" no real grasp of anything I presented. Why should I even bother to fully assess what you have to say in return? There is no need for you to partially or incorrectly interpret my message for me, since I'd rather speak for myself in that case. Other people don't need you to translate. I'd rather they read my own words or ignore them instead, to be bluntly honest. If they want Cliff Notes, then I'd rather provide them myself upon request.


For two, you consider anyone who agrees with you as "part of the community" while possessing zero knowledge of just how long the people who disagree with you have been a part of Epic's loyal consumer base. You are making a very big mistake that I hope Epic will not make themselves. You may disregard everyone who disagrees with you and feel entitled for some reason or another. But it is wise to first know what you are actually disagreeing about and where you stand in relation to who you disagree with.


Lastly, I am a Gnasher veteran who has nothing to prove at this point in terms of how comfortable I am with my skill level. Put modestly, I trust my own game against the SOS and Retro users out there. If you need some help getting your game to that point, then I'd sincerely help you out. If not, then be mindful that I did indeed suggest a 'Gnasher-only' playlist for people like you (and I) to have as an alternative playlist to go to at our behest. It's too bad that you chose not to even glance at that. Lately, it seems that all people understand are inane personal attacks. I can tell it took a lot for you to even respond to this thread without resorting to such conduct, Impend1ng DOOM.


We all love Gears of War, so cool your jets, put on your thinking cap, and try. Disagreement keeps the world from stagnation. It is how people disagree and where they go from there that makes all the difference.

I respected your opinon up until that point. Why the dis? Inferring he sucks based on his comment is ridiculous

Is it just me or have i heard that line in a movie or something. No meaning by it, just curious.

[Sully]

I think you misunderstood me: I fit that definition in every way. I have completely altered my playstyle to play against the new weapons effectively, but I am no longer enjoying the franchise as I was before, meaning that I do not like the playstyle that those guns have caused me to resort to.

When I was 15, I discovered Gish by the Smashing Pumpkins. It was 1991 and the music scene was in heavy upheaval as hair metal gave way to "alternative" rock heavily centered in Seattle (and yes, I know the Pumpkins are from Chicago). Gish completely blew me away and I couldn't wait for a 2nd release from the band, which came as Siamese Dream in the summer of 1993. The new record picked up right where Gish left off and quickly became my favorite album (which speaks volumes as contenders were Nevermind, Ten, Badmotorfinger, Undertow, etc.). I saw the Smashing Pumpkins in September 1993 at a beyond-sold out show at a small club in downtown Tampa, FL, where they played an amazing set that cemented them as my favorite band. I couldn't wait for more studio work, and within a year, a new album was announced. Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness was said to be a double album, which got me really excited as my Smashing Pumpkins tracklist would effectively double.

The new album came out in Fall 1995 and I instantly bought it at some random record store the day of release. As I listened to it, a strange feeling came over me. This was not the band I had grown to love for two amazing prior albums- the vast majority of the 28 new songs were, in my ever-so-humble opinion, complete garbage. How could this be? Corgan and crew had made pure musical magic for the last two albums and surely everything they would do in the future would be exactly what I wanted and expected. Right?

Boy, was I wrong. The Smashing Pumpkins had departed from the raw, in-your-face, brilliantly delivered rock that I had come to love and taken their music in a slightly different direction. I was bummed. It took almost three years for their next studio album, Adore, which was (again, in my opinion) even worse than Mellon Collie. And its been completely downhill ever since. How was it possible that my favorite band, a band that I loved and supported for so long, would let me down by changing so drastically?

Bottom line- I'll keep listening to Gish and Siamese Dream. Maybe you should keep Playing Gears 2.

[Crammer]

When I was 15, I discovered Gish by the Smashing Pumpkins. It was 1991 and the music scene was in heavy upheaval as hair metal gave way to "alternative" rock heavily centered in Seattle. Gish completely blew me away and I couldn't wait for a 2nd release from the band, which came as Siamese Dream in the summer of 1993 (I was about to enter my senior year of high school). The new record picked up right where Gish left off and quickly became my favorite album (which speaks volumes as contenders were Nevermind, Ten, Badmotorfinger, Undertow, etc.). I saw the Smashing Pumpkins in September 1993 at a beyond-sold out show at a small club in downtown Tampa, FL, where they played an amazing show that cemented them as my favorite band. I couldn't wait for more studio work, and within a year, a new album was announced. Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness was said to be a double album, which got me really excited as my Smashing Pumpkins tracklist would effectively double.

The new album came out in Fall 1995 and I instantly bought it at some random record store the day of release. As I listened to it, a strange feeling came over me. This was not the band I had grown to love for two amazing prior albums- the vast majority of the 28 new songs were, in my ever-so-humble opinion, complete garbage. How could this be? Corgan and crew had made pure musical magic for the last two albums and surely everything they would do in the future would be exactly what I wanted and expected. Right?

Boy, was I wrong. The Smashing Pumpkins had departed from the raw, in-your-face, brilliantly delivered rock that I had come to love and taken their music in a slightly different direction. I was bummed. It took almost three years for their next studio album, Adore, which was (again, in my opinion) even worse than Mellon Collie. And its been completely downhill ever since. How was it possible that my favorite band, a band that I loved and supported for so long, would let me down by changing so drastically?

Bottom line? I'll keep listening to Gish and Siamese Dream. You should keep Playing Gears 2.

the only differance is an album has tracks. if you don't like this one you will like track 3 or 5 or 6 and hate the rest, but atleast you still got a little bit of love. Gears 3 without Alpha is no love. EMINEM rules

[breaking kneecaps]

I respected your opinon up until that point. Why the dis? Inferring he sucks based on his comment is ridiculous

Is it just me or have i heard that line in a movie or something. No meaning by it, just curious.

No, you did not hear that line from a movie, lol. If you did, then it is a movie I've never seen.

As for the supposed "diss" you interpreted, I was actually 100% sincere in my offer to help 'Impend1ng DOOM' see what I see on the battlefield. I never said he "sucked" at this game or tried to say he was bad at it indirectly. He clearly expressed an issue with his handling of SOS and Retro users and has done so several times in this and various other threads. ID has also clearly singled out SOS and Retro users in this very discussion, which leads one to believe that he is simply looking to use a Gnasher against them the majority of the time. This all means that he is one of my fellow Gnasher veterans who just isn't used to accepting change. They are quite vocal, but they do not represent all of us.

It is possible that there is something Impend1ng DOOM just isn't seeing on the battlefield, because SOS and Retro users have weaknesses just like the rest of us do. There are so many ways to deal with them that this game gives us. There is really no excuse to complain about them and I stand by that. However, people are free to think however they like.

[eightyeightmph]

Theres no adapting. The Sawed-Off mentality isn't helping with cover fire, its hiding. Its an unsatisfying experience. Theres no dramatic Gnasher battle close-range, there's click and run. People follow you as you run the whole map waiting for you to stop and gib. Now given 90% of the time I'll hear them following, turn around and destroying them with a Retro, but that 10% is annoying. And I hate losing firefights because my teammates arent actually firing, they're hoping for an instagib.

[breaking kneecaps]

Theres no adapting. The Sawed-Off mentality isn't helping with cover fire, its hiding. Its an unsatisfying experience. Theres no dramatic Gnasher battle close-range, there's click and run. People follow you as you run the whole map waiting for you to stop and gib. Now given 90% of the time I'll hear them following, turn around and destroying them with a Retro, but that 10% is annoying. And I hate losing firefights because my teammates arent actually firing, they're hoping for an instagib.

A Gnasher is capable of being played the same way -- by camping and looking to blindside an unsuspecting victim who doesn't check their six or cut corners wide enough to see around them. A team of well coordinated Gnasher wielders is nearly unstoppable in a 1 vs 5 situation as well, if they are any good (in Gears 3). People who use the SOS in an "unsatisfying way" can opt to do the exact same thing with a Gnasher. Different gun attributes, but same result when it comes to a player's chosen approach.

[eightyeightmph]

A Gnasher is capable of being played the same way -- by camping and looking to blindside an unsuspecting victim who doesn't check their six or cut corners wide enough to see around them. A team of well coordinated Gnasher wielders is nearly unstoppable in a 1 vs 5 situation as well, if they are any good (in Gears 3). People who use the SOS in an "unsatisfying way" can opt to do the exact same thing with a Gnasher. Different gun attributes, but same result when it comes to a player's chosen approach.

1. No one follows you expecting to insta-gib you with a Gnasher, they play smarter.
2. SOS users are afraid to pull out OTHER WEAPONS.

Its not the SOS I hate, I think its a great addition, I think the users use it poorly. The situations I lose 2-on-2 or 3-on-3 because one of my teammates hides with a SOS until the rest die, then dies himself, that we definitely would have one if they, oh, even blindfired a Lancer, are ANNOYING. The weapon encourages staying complacent, at a stagnant mediocre skill level hiding around corners, not teamwork and bettering your abilities.

EDIT : Honestly I get annoyed killing someone and nearly dying, with a full red cog symbol, incredibly fragile.... then killing 2 more SOS users because they were too stupid to just fire one pistol bullet at me.