Motion Capture suit?

[Veraster]

I've been trying to make better looking custom characters in udk. The problem is that there is no way to efficiently make realistic animations with keyframes in 3ds max. It's easy to do with weapons but humanoid figures are too hard. I looked on the internet at this MVN motion capture suit. Where would you buy one and how much would one of these cost? Are we looking at a few hundred dollars or several thousand?

[XilenceX]

he he he I don't think the suit itself is so much the problem... more the cameras tracking it worth thousands of $s that would be hard to come across. So if you would want to try motion capturing you would have to find an institution that has them. Either BIG game studios or research institutions.

[Octo]

Kinect can be used as a poor mans motion capture system
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlRSNxryINs

[Veraster]

How well would this work? That's what I was looking at. It doesn't look like it needs those cameras and just senses motion on those metal rods but I'm not an expert

http://www.xsens.com/en/general/mvn

[StingReay]

I heard of something a while back that allows you to do mocap using a desktop without special suits. I'll have to find it again though.

[geodav]

depends on what you want to pay
http://www.ipisoft.com/ camera capture
http://www.animazoo.com/ capture suit full/or part

http://www.animeeple.com/
http://www.mixamo.com/
http://www.truebones.com/
http://www.es3d.com/index2.html

i've also seen ads for suits with motion sensers ala Wii but i can't find them atm

[StingReay]

depends on what you want to pay
http://www.ipisoft.com/ camera capture

That was what I meant. Saw it on DAZ a while back.

[kaleden]

Setting up and working with MoCap data can be more time consuming than animating a decent rig by hand. Were you using CAT or Biped, or did you create your own custom rig?

That said, MoCap can be fun to play with. If you have multiple cameras and good tracking points on your body, you could try using Autodesk's MatchMover (free application to subscription members) for motion capture.

That said, if you money to spend, you're probably better off with a solution designed for motion capture.

[ADF86]

It can also depend on how many animations you need, detail in movements, realism, etc. It's all kind of subjective imo though, and ultimately depends on setting up a systematic way to produce, end of story. But as it hasn't been linked yet, here's the poor-man's mocap; http://www.brekel.com/?page_id=155 We're using it for an RPG and it's working out pretty good as we need a lot of animations, although hand-editing is still necessary for finalization.

[XilenceX]

It can also depend on how many animations you need, detail in movements, realism, etc. It's all kind of subjective imo though, and ultimately depends on setting up a systematic way to produce, end of story. But as it hasn't been linked yet, here's the poor-man's mocap; http://www.brekel.com/?page_id=155 We're using it for an RPG and it's working out pretty good as we need a lot of animations, although hand-editing is still necessary for finalization.

Holly **** this Brekel thing seems too good to be true. I mean I know it has the disadvantage that you can't really hide your limbs from the camera during your movements. However that doesn't rule out thaaat many animations. So I will give it a try with the Kinect we have at University some time soon. I just hope they bought the external powersource with it since that is a requirenment.

[ADF86]

There's a more advanced one as well, but I can't recall the name of it; It's a non-free version, and is capable of using multiple cameras to provide more accurate movement replication as well. But yeah, Brekel's pretty cool.

[alvarofer0021]

595$ Looks like too much for the program

[Henrik]

I find it a bit of a turnoff when companies just come into a forum to shill their product and talk about it like they have nothing to do with it. "IMHO"? Of course it is a must have in your opinion if you will be profiting from it?

[futurebones]

removed sorry

[gaobobuq]

so, what the advantage of the ipisoft compared with brekel? I'm a noob here and will get kinect within 4 days. what is worth for 400+$？ and brekel is free as far as I know.

[shuriken88]

he he he I don't think the suit itself is so much the problem... more the cameras tracking it worth thousands of $s that would be hard to come across. So if you would want to try motion capturing you would have to find an institution that has them. Either BIG game studios or research institutions.

On their website it says XSENS MVN is a cameraless form of mocap, which is what makes it "so cost effective" (in their words). Whether cost effective means £500, or £5000 is another question...

Anyway its funny that I stumbled across this thread while searching for "door" in the animation category, cos I was just on that site right now while trying to find a mocap system that displays their prices rather than give you "quotes".

[darthviper107]

The iPisoft program is probably more accurate, plus the newest update supports 2 Kinect sensors.

Besides that, it's got options for motion capture without Kinect by using multiple cameras and analyzing the images. Brekel works in real time though.

[futurebones]

iPiSoft is way better than realtime in terms of quality, accuracy and speed ease of use of producing quality production grade animations for use in Machinima Film, or Video Game Design.

Brekel gives you limited realtime feedback, but that is useless for any application.

IpiSoft records any performances into a high quality Hologram from which depth data can be studied and analyzed more efficiently and accurately.
In addition to built in keyframing tools and smoothing functions...

iPisoft basic studio for dual Kinect Cameras stands well above the rest.

Cheers

so, what the advantage of the ipisoft compared with brekel? I'm a noob here and will get kinect within 4 days. what is worth for 400+$？ and brekel is free as far as I know.

[ADF86]

Brekel gives you limited realtime feedback, but that is useless for any application.

I think you make some great points except for this one; We have our lead animator watch and validate whether the animations are catching properly realtime, thus allowing for retakes to happen quickly for our actor(s). To me, the only thing missing from ipisoft's solution is direct viewable feedback, which my team has come to appreciate with brekel. This isn't to say that it wouldn't be countered with being able to trust the animation readings more, just a nice feature that can help for small teams of 2+.

[chester1997]

..........

[infin]

The MVN suit from Xsens cost $60k last time I spoke with them (about a year ago). I doubt it has dropped much since then, if at all.
Your other alternative as far as inertial motion capture goes would probably be Animazoo, which costs $20k for their "entry level" solution and $45k for their top of the line suit.
On the optical side of things (suits with markers and a camera setup) you have OptiTrack on the lower end, which goes for between $8k - $20k+ I believe, depending on how many cameras you want/need as well as capture space and actors and props.
You also have PhaseSpace, which is an active marker system (OptiTrack is passive), which runs you about $55k for their 8-camera Impulse setup and then goes up from there (you can also get a 4-camera setup I believe but it probably won't work for capturing the entire body(?)).
PhaseSpace did however recently release a new 8-camera setup called Improv which costs $20k (without a suit I believe) and is pretty close to Impulse with the biggest difference being that it doesn't capture movements as fast (lower fps) and you can't upgrade it to use more cameras.
At the very end of the market you have iPisoft which is a markerless system that uses either 1-2 kinects or 4-6 ps3 eye cameras and costs about $1k (when they don't have it on sale), but doesn't offer real-time data tracking and of course is much less accurate than the aforementioned products. It's also just sold as a software (license), so you have to buy the cameras and equipment yourself.
And I guess the Brekel software is free(?), but from what I've seen the results would need such immense cleaning up that it just isn't worth using it.

There are obviously more systems on the market than the ones I mentioned above, but those are the ones that I personally have been looking at in the past. I know that OrganicMotion (or similar name) have a more high-end markerless system for example; but it doesn't interest me.
I'm also fairly certain that no other system than the ones listed above, that is worth mentioning, can be aquired for less than $50k. And I would assume the "indie spending cap" would be around that area or lower. If not; look at Vicon or a bigger PhaseSpace solution.

[futurebones]

Hi,

Can you give me your computer and GC specs?

Also make sure to uninstall all other kinect related drivers if any,

Let me know if your progress.

Cheers

Well I have Kinect and ipi Recorder but I have a problem every time I start ipi recorder with my Kinect connected, the Kinect's lights turn orange and I can't record any thing

futurebones do you have a solution for that?

Thanks in advanced.

[juguefre]

find an institution that has them. Either BIG game studios or research institutions.

I honestly think that is your best chance (if you want animations with good quality), just show them something solid about your project and you'll have high chances to convince them to let you use the mocap lab.

[shuriken88]

I imagine game studio's will instantly show you where the fire exit is, and tell you to close the door on your way out, unless you pay them £50 per minute and let them in on 70% of the profit you make, plus 25% "interest", thats if you can even show them a business/financial plan and you know how the money flow will work. A lot of major companies can be like that, but yea universities are probably a good place to try, especially if you have friends that study there who can put in a good word for you, or even do it FOR you if they wont let you in at all. I've got some mates that go uni, but none of them in game design sadly, just music, law and A Levels. Shame

[darthviper107]

I seen you ranting against iPiSoft in other forums but you never say what your issue is with them?

[haldolium]

The MVN suit from Xsens cost $60k last time I spoke with them (about a year ago). I doubt it has dropped much since then, if at all.

That should be true (but also depending on how many sensors you want) - I spoke about the suite with a company who presented it just last week, and they said they paid 40k€ for (afair) 20 sensors. Also the suit can not record finger or face movement, that has to be done separately. The instant results were awesome though, would have required only minimal cleaning.

Brekel gives you limited realtime feedback, but that is useless for any application.

Not when you hook up Brekel to Motion Builder. Problem here though is that Kinect is rather limited for any motion that doesn't take place while standing, since it's rage is about 5m and you can not move it during record.


All in all, true MC is still very expensive and I think especially beginners should rather go the manual way for the learning experience. After all, when it comes to other lifeforms then humans you often have to animate per hand anyways.

[Kate]

Hello!
We wish to offer you the services of our own motion capture studio.

Our studio uses the industry-standard OptiTrack system.

Hardware:
1. We have 24 tracking cameras for body mocap: http://www.naturalpoint.com/optitrac...50e/specs.html Poleć znajomym
2. We have 7 tracking camera for face mocap: http://www.naturalpoint.com/optitrack/products/v100-r2/ Poleć znajomym

Software:
ARENA: http://www.naturalpoint.com/optitrack/products/arena/ Poleć znajomym


We also use the Motion Builder and Maya software packages.

We regularly work with professionals actors and can therefore quickly recruit talent as needed – or, if you prefer to, you can be the actor yourself in our studio.

All animations are recorded in 250 FPS and are exported to C3D, BVH, or FBX formats.

Our studio is located in Krakow (Poland) but we can also work remotely via Skype, provided that you send us the documentation and reference videos in advance.



COST:
$130 per hour, including:


3 hrs to prepare the actor and the technical crew, and 5 hrs to capture the session.

We can prepare about 50 animations in one session.

Clean-up animation (animation and clean-up price bundled):


$8 per 1 sec animation.

We can clean up the animation in Motion Builder.

If you would like any additional information, simply send an e-mail to: katarzyna.palko@realitypump.com

[JohNLA]

I am poor but I have had great results by just rotoscoping.
1. Film yourself doing the required animation. Acting is harder than you think. When happy, transfer the film to your computer.
2. Add your film to a background layer and animate your character to match it. The timing is there which is half the battle.

[WinterT]

I know this is an old thread but why not try iclone? It has the kinect motion capture option and a built in animation suite.