I only have 2 problems with this game...
1. active reload doing extra damage
-how about just more stopping power instead?
2. tower of power maps (Drydock, Overpass, Mercy, and Sandbar)
I only have 2 problems with this game...
1. active reload doing extra damage
-how about just more stopping power instead?
2. tower of power maps (Drydock, Overpass, Mercy, and Sandbar)
if this thread had a "like" button, i would hit it
In reference to the above quote you mention, I would like to point out that, while statistics should support gibs as you mentioned, a person wielding the Sawed-off versus the Gnasher may not be doing it because of a duel scenario, he may be doing it because he simply wants the easier kill. That user may be a skilled Gnasher player, but may also find the Sawed-off to be a more proficient weapon than the Gnasher in common scenarios that arrise on specific levels.
Let's take Checkout for example. That level does benefit from the style of play associated with the Sawed-off, and Gnasher users find their bullets sometimes hitting less players and more environment, as they try to maintain distance in response to the Sawed-off. Consider the perspective, if you will, that a competent Gnasher user - and indeed Gears player - is using the Sawed-off not by its intentional means of easing newer players into the multiplayer experience, but instead to score easier kills in stages that have tight spaces and provide maximum benefit - where the risk versus reward is lessened.
Some might argue that this is how it should be, and maybe it is - the tactical application of a weapon to exploit its benefits; the correct advanced usage of a weapon. But where do we draw the line in the sand between when a weapon has tactical application, and when its simply providing too much of a handicap to the players?
In your reference, you mentioned Cyberball. Imagine if a certain player in the game was used to throw a hailmary, it would score every time. Eventually your friend - already outraged by the success rate against him (even if he isn't losing) - now discovers that you're essentially exploiting a game's single advantage to achieve a goal he has to work harder for.
Que the frustration, right?
Again, thank you for your response and I'm sure we all appreciate your correspondence. Most of us understand your reasoning for being careful with your words, lord knows if we were in your position, where players eat up developer interaction, we would be careful too.
Have a great weekend.
KOTH it's obviously in the last seconds of the rounds.
You can't apply the same concept to Execution / Warzone since really you got 1 life to spend. TDM you can avoid it, and CTL will always cause the non stop of the leader dropping and the DBS "protection fortress" around the leader while at least 2 other players provide support fire from whichever rifle they desire.
It's so hard to determine.. what really makes it cheap.
It feels cheap, but is it really cheap? I don't even know anymore! lol.
This is the best most well thought out thread I have read. I wish everyone got this thread link as a pm. Thanks Lee. Although ppl may not agree with all of your statements I'm sure they will respect you for addressing things and hopefully return that respect to the community.
Gears 1 \\*// 750/1250
Gears 2 \\*// 1750/1750 \\*// 100/100
Gears 3 \\*// 1900/2000 \\*// 400/400
Judgment \\*// 1200/1250 \\*// 588/650
What about when the overly skilled players use the DBS thoughr? I actually think its fine now that the range has been nerfed but it is rather frustrating at times when an entire teams using it and you are trying to pull a clutch play or something. The thing that needs to be looked at next really is the Lancer. The DBS is now actually tolerable to a degree.
you didnt answer "what if a skilled gnasher player uses the sawed off"
On the other hand, it doesn't seem to get as many multi-kills and I am beating the weapon a bit more often. Doesn't stop it from being an uber cheap weapon though, people still exploit the hell out of it. Also, it may be due to the servers being down right now, but there's been an influx of bad players today... I.E. people who camp with retro/DBS. I can't enjoy the game today... Not until it dies down a bit and some of the good players get back on.
Senior Gameplay Designer
Very well done post by Lee.....
PS: Chainsawing is still awesome! RAWR RAWR RAWR RAWR!
@Lee, Thank you for making your post and addressing the community. I have a question for you regarding the competitive spirit that fuels most of us to keep playing. To date the most frustrating aspect of GoW 3 for me has not been the SoS, its been the constant question regarding dedicated servers. I love gears and would have bought it regardless of the promise of dedicated servers, but the thing is they were promised and the majority of us don't feel as if that promise was fulfilled. (at least not 100% of the time)
The answer to the servers may not belong in this thread, in fact I'd love to see a Lee sponsored server related sticky. But if you could talk to us about what exactly is going on and why so many of us "feel" like we are in GoW2 p2p matches we would all appreciate it. Its hard to be competitive when our skillfully aimed shots aren't landing where they appear to.
I'm a bit in the middle about the sawn-off, personally i class myself as a Veteran Player and to be honest as much as i hate people running round rushing people and using it, i don't think it should be taken out of the game, if it starts to annoy me or if a certain person annoys me with it, then i change my weapon to the sawn-off and do the same to them, i'm 90% of the time a Gnasher user but i do use it from time to time on the tighter maps like Checkout.
So for me, yes it can be annoying but so was the One shot downs with the Sniper in Gears 1, and the cheap 2-Piece in Gears 2, and all the Host advantage that went with the Gnasher in Gears 2.
No matter what Epic do, not everyone will be happy, theres always going to be complaints.
I'm not Playing any more and i'm taking my Football Home!
I'm happy with the way the SO behaves now, I seem much more able to slide away to the side of them and pop that dome with my gnasher
**** you, I can make my own people.
Lee u forgot that retro lancer is unstoppable and hammerburst is rediculous, sawed off ruins wingman along with other weapons. And for those of u that say then just use those weapons, i have only to see how the hell i was dying so fast and it was unforgivable to put these overpowered weapons in the game. The below comments are from multiple posts i have made on other sites and a little jumbled up, but if you are a pro gears player u will understand.
I think all you people that defend the sawed-off are just plain stupid. Do you want to know what the hell a sawed-off shotgun is??? Let me tell you, it is a F***ing d*mn power weapon that is what it is. Should everybody spawn loaded with a boomshot, h*ll no. I thoroughly enjoyed wingman in gears 2 happily destroying most teams no matter how bad my team mate is being able to win a match with all the kills, u know why because i am a gears captain and better than everyone else, there was lots when I have been given a run for my money(for example having two teams tied at 15 and coming back from 9 to tying 1 team at 16 and then having multiple more ties relsulting in a 21/19/23 win for me, truly one of the funnest games i have ever played.) I come to gears 3 and find out that wingman can be made unplayable if you play the wrong noobs. I have my gnasher out and find that a team of noobsboth equipt with sawed off and retro lancer. they will camp behind a d*mn wall forever until another team comes up behind you with the same sh*t weapons, so u r trapped. u get sc**wed everytime. I have to say the the best gametype for gears (wingman has been ruin because of sawed off) their is some ways around sawed off in other gametypes, but wingman is destroyed and if i cannot play wingman the game i loved, the other game types are just not the same. So sawed off/retro lancer/and hammerburst have ruined wingman completely. I have been downed by a few bullets from both retro and hammerburst before. What happened to just being skilled at gears and making people miss by wall bouncing/dodging, now u can dodge and wall bounce all you want sawed off still wins if you are not patient enough to camp the camper. In a battle with 2 people against yourself and you have the skill to win possibly against both at once if they have normal weapons out, guess what mr sawed off will come up behind u and blow u away in his sleep ruining a gnasher battle without fail. In closing, sawed off is a power weapon and should be a map based weapon especially in ranked and wingman. Down 13 to 3 in a wingman match, leave it to me i can find a way to win by using skill and smarts. still rape at gears 3 but wingman is not the same because of sawed up coming from both sides of u with retro lancer which is worse. Sum up of all things that epic would fix if they were smart seriously, i hope they listen to me because i consider myself a gears pro. 1. sawed off(need i say more) get it out period or in some game types or put it as a map based weapon. Make a pro wingman gamemode where u cannot use sawed off reto or hammerburst 2. why are game types so short (especially execution/warzone) three rounds, really i win that crap in 2 minutes, it is rediculouse. 3. noobs should not be able to camp behind a wall with sawed off and make it impossible for you to go around and get them.4. i know retro lancer is supposed to be powerful but i have been downedd with a few bullet from it before i swear that is too powerful, this is gears not cod, mind u i am amazing at cod aswell… have gone 30-0 free for all numerouse times (info not needed) 5. both players dying from shotgun at same time, happens wat to much. ne ways. apart from these things, u got yourself a perfect game. And for those that will just say then go back to gears 2, screw u, I love the gears 3 gameplay but hate the above things about the game. I have gone back to gears 2 and the game play feels slow and old so it is unplayable to me. Feels weird. EPIC U LISTEN TO ME, U WILL READ THIS AND REALIZE THIS MAKES SENSE, THESE THINGS U HAVE DONE TO THE GAME HAVE RUINED MANY CRUCIAL AREAS OF THE GAME MOSTLY IN WINGMAN in other game types i can still destroy everyone finishing games with like 22-4 kdr in team deathmatch, i am not just being stupid from going to close, i am being trapped in wingman in many cases. At the least take i out of wingman NOOOOOOWWWWWW!!!!!! GETTTTT ITTTT THHHEEEE F************************ out. please and thank u. AND just because people have not voted for the pole does not mean people are not sick of sawed off. everyone i know hates it. hates it hates it heates it. Facebook group as well. this is a big problem even though it has not blown up in your face yet.LISTEN, who put this crap in the game, were u high??? k thanks. hate it, love the new gameplay hate swed off and retro lancer in some cases,
Updated comment from another discussion:
i have used the retro lancer and i was astounded to find that it is rediculously easy to get a kill with it. It takes ZERO SKILL and I found it really boring because of this, I was just killing people way to fast and easily, it felt cheap and unfair. As for sawwed off, it is only a problem when you are in a gnasher battle with someone and they cconstantly run up and ruin it by running up to u and pressing the trigger with their eyes closed and the battle is over. Sawed off has also completely ruined Wingman my used to be favorite game mode because people will camp behind corners and stay their until you try and get at them and get destroyed or wait their and have another team come up behind u and retro/hammerburst u down in an instant. If u run away, it does not matter most times u will get trapped between 2 teams and get raped by these cheap weapons or some person will jump out from a corner they have been camping behind for 4 minutes. Hoard is only enjoyable if u play with friend once, then it is repetitive. And beast mode sucks. |Gears 3 is for camping noobs and reto freaks. I am not an idiot running around getting killed, I still rape at this game and have gotten 24-2 kdr in TDM and similar scores many times. But when i get and average score like 16-10 because some noob filled me up in an instant and or camped with sawed off, I don't accept that, just a few times of getting killed by this retardation makes me never want to play again. I also don't want to play again because Wingman has become unplalyable if u use normal gnasher/lancer weapons which have perfect power because of camping sawed offs and powerful rifles that surround u. And no I will not join the noobs, I am going to join everyone elso who has half a brain and never play this **** again. And I love the gameplay which has made gears 2 unplayable, I am not saying gameplay has anything wrong with it, just the weapons. I'm done, just like 80% of all gears players, no one is playing this game. MAKE A CLASSIC WINGMAN MODE NO RETRO/HAMMERBURST/SAWEDOFF PLeASE. I find that retro lancer is definitely the biggest problem in the game, sawed off only ruins many gnasher battles and wingman. Havent played this game in about a week and don't plan on it ne more. Played gears 1 and 2 for years, played gears 3 for a week. WOW what a screw up EPIC make a great game and then throw a **** brick at it.
After the nerf, I'd say its about perfect. Needless to say, I'd rather not have it at all, but if there's going to be a gun like it, making it the same gib range as the gnasher is the way to go. That way a gnasher is identical in gibing use (provided your shots are well aimed) and has the added benefit of being a mid range attacker. Anyone willing to get better will drop the sawed off eventually, or just use it to take advantage of clusterlucks like KotH.
Speaking of King of the Hill, Lee.... What happened to the spawns in that game mode? How did they somehow make them just as bad or worse than the randomized spawns that Annex/old KotH had? I would love to go in depth if I have to, but the poor spawns should be easily apparent, even in playtesting.
Last edited by ThexCrusher; 10-14-2011 at 11:39 PM.
I wouldn't mind some input on my thread about balance as well. Give it a whirl if you have the time:
 Anthony Carmine///Savage Kantus
[-.-] Golden Gnasher///Flaming Hammerburst
["]["] QM KotH///QM TDM
Gears 2: \\★// 8/12/10, Seriously 2.0: 4/5/10
Gears 3: Level 30, Seriously 3.0: 8/1/12
i played long and hard to get over a 1.5 k/d on gears of war 2, this game its not even a challenge. there is a difference between making a game user friendly and dumbing it down to the point where its not even enjoyable anymore
What's with every random thinking they know everything about how Epic/shooters/video games work?
When I eat at a restaurant I don't tell the waiter how to serve, the chef how to cook and the dishies how to load up an industrial dishwasher. Whats with all the arrogant and ignorant people shooting off their mouths?
I'm not done with Gears 3, but I am definitely done with the forums. I feel I have actually become less intelligent reading most of the drivel on here and the sheer stupidity of the arguments from nobodies who think they are God's gift to the earth. Not even a well constructed thread from an Epic employee is safe from this BS.
Lee, I totally feel you about having that expirence where we had a chance to beat that Goliath in a game, I think we've all been there or most of us wouldn't be here today.
I just hope this thread doesn't turn into a tool that gets everybody up in arms and rallying around something that individually they might not even want or ask for. Lee, you have a lot of power on these forums, whether intentional or not, because we all know your one of the guys that made this game we all practically worship. I believe the game has made tremendous strides from where it came, and I'm not trying to say it came from a bad place. Right now, your telling us the stats look good, we are having fun, and maybe it should be left at that.
Jacinto, River, Pavillion, Security come to Gears 3 and come DARK!!!
Nice to have another one of your discussions live. The past ones have been really productive.
Let me start off by congratuling you and thanking you for all your work on this game. It is a huge improvement from GoW2, and im certain this type of initiatives by you had a lot to do with it.
I have always considered myself as an all-round player. I love sniping. I also enjoy heavily the mid range combat and shotgun CQC. I wouldnt fit in any of the so called groups of "Shotty lovers" or "Lancer whores". Playing gears for so long i thought you were never going to be able to come up with well received new weapons. This is why it amazed me when i first played the beta. To my surprise the Retro-lancer is a breath of fresh air. I love to use it on mid/close range. So now i have a wider range of selection of weapon choice for each map, which has expanded my gameplay and undoubtly has brought with it a lot of satisfaction and of course... a lot of fun.
I think in general you guys did a great job with the game's balance. For me every weapon has its own use, its own time and its own place. This is why i would urge you not to pay much attention to ppl complaining about every weapon on this game. You should hear them out of course, but in the end take only into account your numbers and when there's a lot of common threads about the same issue. So forget about nerfing the rifles. The Lancer is better than ever, the Retro lancer is AWSOME and the hammeburst is really powerfull.
About the Gnasher, i think your shotty discussion thread was the best thing that ever happened to Gears. Im glad i was part of that. The weapon feels great!. It is finally consistent and those pop shots!!! ohhh those pop shots!
Which brings me to the Sawed-off shotgun. I like the weapon, the gibs are really cool and I agree with everything you said. Newcomers and ppl who have never been good with the Gnasher should have a chance in shotgun battles. I knew this from the beginning.
The problem here is that you cant control people. What happens when you put that SoS (like you say on the op, meant for new ppl and others who have never been good with shotguns) on the hands of skilled gnasher players. Remember some ppl are jerks and like to abuse, and also.. if it is part of the game... why shouldnt they use it?
Of course that if im good with the gnasher or lancers i should be able to counter a SOS player, even two at a time. But what happens when a whole team is using it? what happens when they all come at you? how are you going to counter that? rage quitting? what if you dont like rage quitting? Equipping a SoS yourself? what if you dont like trading kill for kill? Do you know how often i've come across this type of games? Do you know how frustrating it is? This is why my feelings about the SoS started to change, and thought that the idea of nerfing it or making it a pick up weapon wasnt that far fetched. But not eliminating it.
These are my 2 cents on the SoS. Hope they help.
Now that you are here, let me ask you 3 favors.
1. You probably dont have to do with this, but you can spread the word. Sometimes when you join a game. You are not able to change loadouts. You have to press B, then select (so the scoreboard goes away), and then you can change loadouts. It is a minor issue, but can be a little annoying. Maybe you guys can take care of it in the next update.
2. Rod said the silverback is going to be available soon on Versus. I know im commenting without having a go at it, but please think hard before affecting the balance you have already achieved.
3. Can Epic post the status of the dedicated servers somewhere on the menu screens? Maybe on the event page. "DS are online"
Thanks for listening and for always being present with your feedback.
great post thank you. I used to get mad at S.O but now as a lvl. 80+ i have learned ways to "avoid' the early load blow. However I am still hoping for further reform of this gun side blast radius.
You say that the game is not fun if you play against bad people who use the gnasher, but I remember playing gears 1 when everyone used the gnasher, even bad people. Guess what? The game was enjoyable even when you kill noobs. And the great thing was is that i was a noob at that game at some point. I got killed repeatedly by other people who would destroy me in gnasher battles, but i got better. The only way to get better at this game is to use the gnasher, not give them some noob weapon that your true fans hate. I don't understand how they think the sawed-off is a good idea. It is terrible.
Like I said, the lancer is a tad OP.
It's pronounced "Gib" with a hard G sound, not a j sound. Epics wrong
thanks for the info
2.5K/D Team Deathmatch
Give me a mech baird, and i'll love you forever!
i am a sawed off user and i think that the nerf was actually a good thing. the sawed off was super cheap and the range even surprised me at times. that's not to say i didn't enjoy it but i have now learned to be a smarter player. all of you complainers on both sides of this argument need to learn that this game is supposed to be fun for everyone. not just the veterans who know the gnasher like the back of their hand and not the cheap little bastards that refuse to get out of cover cause they're waiting for that chance with the sawed off. even with the nerf (which i agree the range wasn't shortened by that much) it is still a very effective weapon. and all of those gnasher users who keep saying that they've learned how to fight off the sawed off, you obviously haven't played against me
i really haven't had a problem with any of the rifles. they all seem really balanced to me. the lancer (without active) does the least amount of damage and the hammer burst has a super short clip. the retro is powerful but you have to be pretty skilled to control the kickback of that weapon. to epic i say well done on balancing the weapons. the only weapon i feel that still needs changing is the snub pistol but im not really sure how they should change it