Unreal Engine 3 comes to Flash

**weephun** · 10-04-2011, 02:44 PM

Ok, this is officially our week!

Today in Los Angeles our CEO & founder, Tim Sweeney, appeared on stage at the Adobe Max event to demonstrate Unreal Engine 3 running in Flash.

We’ve been working closely with Adobe on this technology for quite some time and today we are revealing it publicly. A few months ago when we decided we would do a demo for this event, we weren’t sure what we were going to show. The first content we decided to try in Flash was “Epic Citadel” and it ran amazingly well – better than we expected it would, considering how early on this was. But we began thinking that maybe a demo of content designed for mobile was setting expectations too low and we should aim higher.

So what did we do? We chose as our demo a fully playable level from Unreal Tournament 3 and it turned out to look even better than the version we shipped on Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3, with improvements like global illumination, better shadows, and god rays! We’re not just talking about triple-A console quality on the web, we’re actually showing it onscreen, in a web browser, playing inside Flash!

I can’t blame you if you couldn’t imagine a Facebook game at the level of Unreal Tournament 3 before today. But know now that Unreal Engine 3 with Flash support is the technology that will enable experiences like this and we’re just getting started.

Can you tell I’m excited?

I expect Unreal Engine 3 developers to be equally thrilled about this. UE3 has earned recognition as the best game engine* for PC, console and mobile platforms and now we’re adding the web via Adobe Flash support. With more than 1,000,000 UDK installs, and many of the worlds’ best developers using UE3’s professional-strength tools, we’re sure to see amazing uses for this down the road.

There’s still some work to do before we can release this technology to developers and we’ll have more to talk about soon. We plan to continue working closely with Adobe and the long-term goal is to be able to bring amazing Samaritan-like experiences, and beyond, to web browsers through Flash.

So stay tuned for more news on this and other amazing developments here and on Facebook and Twitter. It’s going to be Unreal and you’re an Unreal Insider now!

Mark Rein,
Vice President, Epic Games.

Canadian-born Mark Rein is vice president and co-founder of Epic Games based in Cary, NC. Epic’s Unreal Engine 3 has won Game Developer magazine’s Best Engine Front Line Award seven times including entry into the Hall of Fame. UE3 has won three consecutive Develop Industry Excellence Awards. Epic is the creator of the mega-hit “Unreal” series of games and the blockbuster “Gears of War” franchise. Follow @MarkRein on Twitter.

What kind of Unreal Engine games would you like to see running in Flash?

*Current winner of both major industry engine awards: Game Developer magazine’s Front Line award for Best Engine and the Develop Industry Award for Best Engine. UE3 has won seven Front Line awards and has won the Develop award every year since its inception and even won the award that preceded it. In fact UE3 has won more than 20 major industry awards. We’re not talking business accolades here (Epic has won many of those, too) but actual awards for being the best engine.

**Godzab** · 10-04-2011, 02:55 PM

Support for IOS, Mac, and Flash, and you guys give this for free. You guys rock!

**darthviper107** · 10-04-2011, 02:56 PM

My boss will be excited about this.

**esset** · 10-04-2011, 03:23 PM

This is great news!

Will this be a part of the UDK, too? Any estimate on when?

**Tom P** · 10-04-2011, 03:26 PM

Thats not really cool. The whole world tries to get HTML5 established and now that. Flash is a mess and destroys resources like NOTHING else.
Very very uncool move, HTML5 also uses OpenGL ES 2.0, why not this way ?
Browsers begin skipping support for flash and Epic releases a flash based Unreal Engine, i ask myself how much Adobe paid for this nonsense.

**darthviper107** · 10-04-2011, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by Tom P

Thats not really cool. The whole world tries to get HTML5 established and now that. Flash is a mess and destroys resources like NOTHING else.
Very very uncool move, HTML5 also uses OpenGL ES 2.0, why not this way ?
Browsers begin skipping support for flash and Epic releases a flash based Unreal Engine, i ask myself how much Adobe paid for this nonsense.

Considering very few things use HTML5, this isn't a bad move in any way

**hunharibo** · 10-04-2011, 03:58 PM

What about Android support already. That would be a lot better than flash.

**raian** · 10-04-2011, 04:02 PM

This engine gets better every time I look up! You guys always remind me I've made a great choice to choose to develop games with UDK. There's only one feature left that I really want more than anything, and that's UDK support for Android.

**weephun** · 10-04-2011, 04:17 PM

**Mougli** · 10-04-2011, 04:35 PM

Great news, this will make distribution of demos and portfolio reels much easier. I'm curious to see how it works.

**rlc2405** · 10-04-2011, 04:52 PM

hey, good news! This is Unreal!! in a good way!

**OmegaBlue36** · 10-04-2011, 05:23 PM

Awesome!!! I think this will be great to give out demos, or to showcase your work. much better than having a trailer in my opinion.

**seenooh** · 10-04-2011, 05:44 PM

I think October's release is going to be heavy!!

**Crusha K. Rool** · 10-04-2011, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by darthviper107

Considering very few things use HTML5, this isn't a bad move in any way

Well, how is HTML5 supposed to become more spread if the old Flash gets pushed with such stuff?

Originally Posted by OmegaBlue36

Awesome!!! I think this will be great to give out demos, or to showcase your work. much better than having a trailer in my opinion.

Depends. A trailer will be the download size of a short video, a small game will be the download size of a small game. Flash isn't going to change anything about that.
And we still have no clue about the hardware requirements to run such a game in Flash.

I am not all that excited about this. I can see that it may have it's place for small free online games or really for one-time only showreels, but all in all do I prefer traditional distribution via download and installation over streaming stuff of any kind as I would not want to need to open my browser to play an offline game.

The OP is btw barely readable with the Gears of War forum style.

**Aldaron07** · 10-04-2011, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by Crusha K. Rool

And we still have no clue about the hardware requirements to run such a game in Flash.

It will likely be the exact same as if the game was installed. Full games running through Flash, enabling playing through browsers and streaming while you play (allowing you to play on a new machine almost instantly and pick up where you last left off), are not new at all.

**Crusha K. Rool** · 10-04-2011, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by Aldaron07

It will likely be the exact same as if the game was installed. Full games running through Flash, enabling playing through browsers and streaming while you play (allowing you to play on a new machine almost instantly and pick up where you last left off), are not new at all.

Ok, that would limit this usage as social network gaming blockbuster quite a bit because probably not every casual gamer who is used to typical Facebook games will have a high-end graphics card in his PC that meets the requirements for shader model and so on. And neither will the PCs at school or work when you intend to play such games in your coffee break.

**Aldaron07** · 10-04-2011, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by Crusha K. Rool

Ok, that would limit this usage as social network gaming blockbuster quite a bit because probably not every casual gamer who is used to typical Facebook games will have a high-end graphics card in his PC that meets the requirements for shader model and so on. And neither will the PCs at school or work when you intend to play such games in your coffee break.

Right. Gaikai and OnLive are the solutions to that with the games being processed remotely while the input from the player and the output from the remote computer are streamed over the Internet. They're not very good though with how terrible the connections in the US can be...

If the game is going to be installed or streamed to your local system, then you will need the hardware to run it still.

**Mark Rein** · 10-04-2011, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by Tom P

Thats not really cool. The whole world tries to get HTML5 established and now that. Flash is a mess and destroys resources like NOTHING else. Very very uncool move, HTML5 also uses OpenGL ES 2.0, why not this way ?

I'll have to respectfully disagree with you on this. HTML 5 isn't capable of delivering this kind performance and functionality. That could certainly change down the road but Flash is doing amazing things already and it will get better and better much more quickly than HTML 5 can given the process for adding functionality to HTML 5 and the plethora of stakeholders involved. Regardless these are both great web technologies with great uses so this isn't an attack on HTML 5 - it's just another great option for delivering compelling content. With Flash we're working closely with Adobe and our joint goal is to go way beyond what we demoed today and even delivering Samaritan-like high-end experience for the web using Flash.

We're very excited about this and it's going to mean some really amazing experiences for gamers and some truly incredible opportunities for Unreal Engine 3 developers!

**seenooh** · 10-04-2011, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by Mark Rein

I'll have to respectfully disagree with you on this. HTML 5 isn't capable of delivering this kind performance and functionality. That could certainly change down the road but Flash is doing amazing things already and it will get better and better much more quickly than HTML 5 can given the process for adding functionality to HTML 5 and the plethora of stakeholders involved. Regardless these are both great web technologies with great uses so this isn't an attack on HTML 5 - it's just another great option for delivering compelling content. With Flash we're working closely with Adobe and our joint goal is to go way beyond what we demoed today and even delivering Samaritan-like high-end experience for the web using Flash.

We're very excited about this and it's going to mean some really amazing experiences for gamers and some truly incredible opportunities for Unreal Engine 3 developers!

* worships you *

**Crusha K. Rool** · 10-04-2011, 08:34 PM

I am just afraid that the now ongoing support for this technology will slow down the progress of the "real" game development. Things on PC are likely to turn to F2P these days and browser games may be the most obvious thing to do then, but I hope there will still be more than enough resources available at Epic for the classic major gaming platforms.

**Tom P** · 10-04-2011, 11:47 PM

Epic is in a position, where it does not need Flash. If they would release a plugin for the browsers (like Unity engine for example), people would download it, just to see all this Eyecandy. This seems to be more about politics. Such an engine could help flash to survive, but the question still is, if this is a step forward or a step back. If you want a VM, why not Java with OpenGL, OpenCL. Java has bindings that make it easy to work with and its not slower than flash.
I HOPE that all this flash applets that kill the performance of my browser every day, will not become 3D and chew even more resources and power.

**Tom P** · 10-04-2011, 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by Aldaron07

It will likely be the exact same as if the game was installed. Full games running through Flash, enabling playing through browsers and streaming while you play (allowing you to play on a new machine almost instantly and pick up where you last left off), are not new at all.

No way, flash is a VM and will run MUCH slower than an installed game. The VM needs to be run in the background, this kills much of your performance. And problem for years is that flash is not optimized very well, so I don't think that the requirements will be the same (perhaps the graphics reqs, but not CPU).

**darthviper107** · 10-05-2011, 01:30 AM

Well, most people have Flash installed already, which makes it very convenient. But since they've added 3D support it's possible that it might just run better that way. I don't know the technicalities of it, but they're doing some impressive stuff with Flash 3D.

**micahpharoh** · 10-05-2011, 01:50 AM

Is there a link to his actual presentation? I love Tim

**ambershee** · 10-05-2011, 06:32 AM

Originally Posted by Mark Rein

We're very excited about this and it's going to mean some really amazing experiences for gamers and some truly incredible opportunities for Unreal Engine 3 developers!

The only "legitimate" use for flash these days is to exploit and attack home machines. Flash is a terrible platform and shouldn't be supported by anybody. Not only because it's a bloated, slow virtual machine with little to no optimisation or standardisation across the platforms it supports, but also because it still allows ridiculously obvious exploits such as hardware level remote code execution (which installed software has more difficulty achieving) - and those vulnerabilities have been known about and not bothered to be resolved for several years. Hell, it has something like 200 unresolved CVEs that are well known about and there's a reason why there isn't a single person with an interest in Internet security could possibly recommend doing anything other than disabling flash for everything except known and trusted websites.

If I were interested in distributing dangerous malware (for example to steal personal information like credit card information), wrapping the delivery system up inside a game built using UDK and flash publishing would be the ideal way to go. Things like casual portal games are already a massive platform for this, and there is a very good reason why HTML 5 is on the way in, and flash on the way out with browser software vendors.

Obviously a company wants to be able to deliver it's products to as wide as possible an audience, but just because a software platform is widely distributed doesn't mean it should be supported.

**Snufkin** · 10-05-2011, 07:20 AM

It's...unreal.

Drone * · 10-05-2011, 07:33 AM

Now I wan't to play Gears of War 3 in my web browser

Or even better, I wan't to use UnrealEd with Gears of War 3 so I can make crazy mods on it!

**tegleg** · 10-05-2011, 07:59 AM

wow that will be good, not everyone wants to make 50gb all out blockbuster games. i can see myself making tons of free small browser games when we have this

my only concern is that we will have to pay for the privilage, like with ios games.
sounded good when they announced it but it ended up costing 150 quid to use a 'free' game engine.
and an extra few hundred if you want to use scaleform...

**weephun** · 10-05-2011, 09:55 AM

http://www.udk.com/licensing
All the details are there, but using the UDK to create your game/application/etc. is completely free. $99 fee is due only when you're finished and ready to sell your game. And then only 25% royalties on your revenues AFTER you've made over $50,000.

**tegleg** · 10-05-2011, 10:11 AM

we can make pc games without any financial scam going on and im gratefull for that, thank you epic.
the udk licence is very inexpensive if you want to sell your game too.

apple skanks 50 out of you even if you just want to test on an iphone, meaning the use of udk in this situation is not free (not entirely epics fault i understand).
also using scaleform can end up costing a bucket load of notes if you use adobe flash, luckily there are free alternatives.

i know its early days but does that hint at there might be an extra licence we have to get from adobe?

**darthviper107** · 10-05-2011, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by tegleg

i know its early days but does that hint at there might be an extra licence we have to get from adobe?

No, Adobe doesn't require you to pay to create things for Flash

**Gedden** · 10-05-2011, 01:22 PM

A lot of random talk about HTML5 and Java.... lets cut to the point and ask some relevant questions!

The main issue
Its not a secret that currently weakest part of UDK on the PC is distribution. Its the one really big thing Unity has over UDK at this point.

In the world of game digital distribution, every step your players have to take between visiting your website and playing your game is called a 'barrier'. That includes registration, downloading etc.

Unless you go on steam (and give up a hearty profit %) , you have to create a UDK branded installer/exe, it even pauses the installation to asks our potential players to send their email addresses to Epic so they can get updated information about UDK(?!). As far as im aware, this installer is not configurable. Lets say you expect to deliver regular updates to your UDK based game.... you have to either write your own patcher/installer or make a deal with a 3rd party who will also charge you (like pando or the aforementioned steam).

UDK being able to run inside a Flash plugin, quite frankly, is the holy grail of digital distribution. Flash plugin boasts a 96% penetration rate, which is just amazing. This means we can reasonably expect people to not have any significant barriers in "getting into the game".

Main Questions
1. Will this become part of UDK, or only up-front licensees?
2. Is there a plan for a patcher/updater along with this? (As I imagine forcing the user to re-download all the unreal binaries and every custom game package on each page load is out of the question)
3. When could we get our mitts on this bad boy?

~Gedden

**seenooh** · 10-05-2011, 06:27 PM

I think it's too early to judge Epic's work with Flash. We still have no detailed information in terms of performance and other stuff. Lets wait and see what both of them managed to do.

**Archie_Vision** · 10-10-2011, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by Gedden

Main Questions
1. Will this become part of UDK, or only up-front licensees?
2. Is there a plan for a patcher/updater along with this? (As I imagine forcing the user to re-download all the unreal binaries and every custom game package on each page load is out of the question)
3. When could we get our mitts on this bad boy?

~Gedden

This^^ I am very excited about this, and I was going to ask the same questions. But, it seems I was beat to the punch.

Can we please get some more information on this?

Thanks,

Lee

**flota113** · 10-10-2011, 01:49 PM

WOW :-O I have seen first time Mark Rein, I amazed that he has time for community

.
These are great news. Now I'll be able to show in easy way what I'm doing with UDK and Blender

.
Also you only showed level; no AI so I'm little afraid how flash will bear with it. But I'll wait for next news

Looking forward to see all great news and new build.

**Archie_Vision** · 10-10-2011, 04:45 PM

There are videos on YouTube that show gameplay. I do not know if it is OK or not to post them here, so I will leave it to you to find them.

**flota113** · 10-11-2011, 10:45 AM

Thanks, I saw presentation and now I'm more excited about that

**abitguru** · 10-12-2011, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by flota113

Thanks, I saw presentation and now I'm more excited about that

Me too, is there a playable demo?

**ironbelly** · 10-13-2011, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by Tom P

Thats not really cool. The whole world tries to get HTML5 established and now that. Flash is a mess and destroys resources like NOTHING else.
Very very uncool move, HTML5 also uses OpenGL ES 2.0, why not this way ?
Browsers begin skipping support for flash and Epic releases a flash based Unreal Engine, i ask myself how much Adobe paid for this nonsense.

I couldnt' agree with you more on this and I was asking myself the exact same question, how much gold did Adobe line Epic's pockets with to make this happen? Flash in adobe's hands has languished on innovating Flash because of it's monopoly on the market, they are a fat lazy and greedy corporation who's profits come at the expense of innovation in their flash division. Epic supporting them is just propping them up when they need to fall and be replaced by the far superior open html5 format and it irks me like you wouldn't believe. It's bad enough that we have to deal with flash in Scaleform, that we have to deal with bull**** physx not working properly on 35% of the market when Havoc is right there, hell it's bad enough that we have to deal wtih DirectX over OpenGL and now we get another 'feature' that supports and pushes -a closed, proprietary world over an open and innovative one.

thanks epic, but no thanks

**Mougli** · 10-13-2011, 06:08 PM

The figures speak for themselves.

Besides, nobody's forcing you to use it. And for those saying "they should spend more time fixing bugs than adding new features", the teams probably aren't even the same so it's irrelevant.

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