Yes - it could be amazing in Gears 3
No - I don't agree with what you wrote
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Well frankly, any game mode is about power weapons really. And getting the power weapons doesn't stop CTF from working brilliantly in any other major shooter (like Unreal and Halo to name two big ones).
Besides, they could always do something like Wingman where power weapon spawns are delayed if play testing showed a rush to power weapons became too powerful.
IMO (and as you've probably seen given the polls, many other peoples opinion) CTL simply doesn't work well. As stated in my OP, once you have the leader, having no reason to move takes away all of the challenge of being the person holding the "leader" or "flag". You just stand there hoping your teammates protect you via perimeter. It completely removes what makes CTF most fun - that tension of trying to find the right route to score the flag against all odds.
Not sure if you play other major shooters a lot or not, but I can tell you that capping a flag in a tough CTF matchup is absolutely epic. You feel like you won the lottery.
Capping a leader I never felt anything but "Cool, my teammates killed the guys coming for me." Why do you think there have been so many polls and threads about bringing Guardian back? It's the same reason CTL doesn't live up - finally getting to and killing the other team's leader could be absolutely epic in some matches similar to finally capping a flag in a good CTF game.
Me too my friend. At least a few who have said no have started posting. But I am a little tired of suggestions just being shot down because "no it's fine" which goes against all progress for the title.
My initial response is no.
One problem with some games is having too many game modes (spreads out players too thinly) but after reading into it more, I would have to say yes. An actual Capture the Flag mode would be enjoyable. I could see this game type being dominated by parties.
Thank you for taking the time to formulate an honest opinion rather than just having a knee-jerk reaction.
And yes, you are certainly right about the game mode being dominated by parties. But then, most of Gears is that way don't you think? A good team of 5 will almost always beat a random team of 5 especially when it comes to objective based games like Guardian and others.
As stated, the team above all else nature of Gears is one of its greatest aspects IMO.
Also, in regards to playlists it is really no longer a concern. The large concern about playerbase in Gears 2 was due to the horrible online gameplay (read netcode) and therefore we needed to try to get local people more often to overcome. Between the dedicated servers and the increased playerbase Gears 3 is likely to have, it's no concern at all.
Hell, Gears has many fewer game modes than other major shooters which honestly I don't mind. But I just think about how brilliant CTF would be in Gears and it's truly a shame it doesn't have it.
Last edited by Porshapwr; 09-14-2011 at 10:22 PM.
Its not about getting the power weapons, its about what happens after you get them. If there was only 1 feasible spawn (near the flag) any team that gets the first set of weapons will dominate the game. Wz/Ex is the closest the game gets to "power weapons =win" and true CTF would be even closer, and in fact follow that thought like a law.
Second, not having a reason to move does not negate the initial challenge of catching the flag in the first place. In other games, its about picking up a stationary flag and moving it somewhere else. CTL is about picking up a mobile and lethal flag and holding it still to win. The route to the flag has more to do with how to get the flag than what to do once you have it. Basically, it is just an alternative view of classic CTF. However, this view is necesary in Gears because of how the game was designed.
CTF works in Halo because you have plenty of room to work. Power weapons don't influence the game as heavily because spawns cannot be camped (at least not as easily as in Gears). A stationary flag and predictable spawns are acceptable because the gameplay permits it.
I played many games of CTL in the beta (had early access when it was up full time too). And I guess I just disagree. Standing still and holding something for 30 seconds is nowhere near the same as having to navigate an entire map under fire.
To your point about power weapons, they could always play test and remove them completely. CTF would only have original loadouts. It could be another solution although I'm not sure the best of course.
Also, you can see how many polls, requests, and threads there are about bringing Guardian back. As stated, the dislike of CTL is quite strong. Frankly, I don't mind it but then I don't love it either. The best quote regarding CTL IMO was "They took Submission, a horrible game type, and mixed it with Guardian, a great game type, and the result is mediocre game type".
I feel CTF could recapture that "great" objective game type personally.
CTF would be AMAZING for Gears. I just have a couple more ideas to make everything a little more intense.
- When you capture the flag, you actually hold the flag itself instead of putting it on your back (like in Halo)
- You CANNOT roadie run while holding the flag.
- You can't fire weapons obviously, but you can melee with the flag and even perform a flag execution if you get the chance
And unlike Halo, it is difficult to kill a player running away from you. You must first down them, and then shoot them after they are downed. If there is even 1 teammate to revive that flag carrier, they can get up and pickup the flag and keep going while you reload. In Halo, you kill him, he is dead and must respawn giving you ample time to move in to get the flag back.
Small maps, limited pathways, and extremely ineffective ways of killing fleeing players just goes against any form of classic CTL.
But why bother with arbitrary rules like this? In Wingman it is reasonable because it is the only mode with 4 teams, just as it is acceptable to pay for weapons in Horde because the rules are not quite the same. But this is 5v5 versus mode. Removing power weapons just for the sake of this mode just shows how it does NOT fit with Gears. None of the other modes need these arbitary rule changes. The only key difference between each mode are the objectives and DBNO rules really.To your point about power weapons, they could always play test and remove them completely. CTF would only have original loadouts. It could be another solution although I'm not sure the best of course.
People are just mad. Guardian really wasn't that great, a lot of people got started playing it because of the higher XP ratio and respawn system. Guardian fans would more likely be at home with TDM, because they play out very similarly. The main difference is because you don't need to protect a specific player on your team in TDM you can more freely roam the map. I see CTL more like Assassination from Gears 1 since you have a more direct objective; go for the enemy leader. In Guardian the leader was important, but you could get the enemy leader and still lose the game. CTL you win the moment you get the leader.Also, you can see how many polls, requests, and threads there are about bringing Guardian back. As stated, the dislike of CTL is quite strong. Frankly, I don't mind it but then I don't love it either. The best quote regarding CTL IMO was "They took Submission, a horrible game type, and mixed it with Guardian, a great game type, and the result is mediocre game type".
I feel CTF could recapture that "great" objective game type personally.
Last edited by the_suicide_fox; 09-15-2011 at 12:04 AM.
I think the flag should have to be carried, byt it would be a one hit beat down weapon. This will force players to cover the flag runner.
Originally Posted by Marcus Fenix
I think this would be a fantastic idea. CTF is a main stay in most competitive games and I can't help but drool every time I think about CTF and Gears. It would work really well because as previously stated Gears is a team based game and essentially your team would have to work man down and cover your the flag runner while the other team is pushing up trying to get the stop. The close combat would be amazing for clutch flag stops or 2 or 3 people just wreaking havoc while the opposing team is spawning. Yes, a KoTH like spawn system would have to be used, otherwise spawn camping would be too easy.
For those naysayers that think it would results in camping or slow gameplay, consider the fact that there are power weapons located on the map and teams that camp back will not be able to utilize them. Try camping your base while being pushed by a booom shot, or try standing in cover and lancering while a sniper is scoping in on your head. It would encourage teams to try to push out, gain map control and then keep it as their team mate runs the flag back.
To the people that think the team that first got the power weapons would automatically win, consider the fact that power weapons do not have unlimited supplies of ammo. While a getting a boomshot may ensure that your team gets 1 or maybe even 2 caps, you should be able to use your smokes and team fire effectively to push the other team back, especially since they are man down while running the flag. This means if you do get capped on, you'll have the ability and means to push back out and re take map control if you know what you're doing.
I see nothing but positive things coming from adding this gametype and I would be very confident that it would be one of the most played playlists/game types.
I voted yes i always wanted this.
And for those who voted no how does it affect u? Just dont play it why ruin the fun for someone else
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I was going to vote no, read the Op and changed my mind
I think those are great ideas and I agree. Someone earlier mentioned movement speed with the flag being about the same as when holding a Boomshield. I think that would be great and still give you that "hunkered down" perspective too.
I would like to see the flag being a two handed item meaning no other weapons can be used. But saying that being able to melee with the flag would have to be necesary to defend with. Also as another option, why not have a point on the end and have the ability to "retro charge" with it like the retro lancer with the flag becoming blood stained if successful!
Of course movement speed would have to be reduced to that of the boomshield. I think with having 14 second re-spawns could mean people could almost run from one side of the map to the other without the other team returning, especially on a map like security!
I think this has the possibility of being a sweet game type as long as the movement speed and respawns are closely looked into.
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yes, classic Unreal Tournament/Quake style CTF, where you carry the flag..
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Also, I'm sorry because I don't want to sound offensive, but how is CTL worse than CTF in the sense that in capture the leader you "stand still and your teammates protect you via perimeter?" It's exactly the opposite, in fact, CTF games consist in very much that, forming a perimeter and protecting your flag while capturing the enemy(s) one(s). Please don't make me laugh. What you said right there is hilarious, man.
CTL Is more dynamic than CTF. First your "flag" is a living person that can move, shoot, comunicate, see all enemies of the other team on the tac-com and mark them, get power weapons, and act like a soldier with some privileges.
In CTF what do you have? Either: two flags each one on opposite spawns, or a flag in the middle. That is all.
And CTF is more dynamic? Yeah sure, whatever. I just know that flags don't walk around the map in the CTF gametypes I played. And I played a lot, just so you know.
Tension when running with the flag? Lol. And CTL doesn't have tension when the enemy captures your leader, or when both teams capture the leader and there's a stalemate situation, or when your leader is downed but you have the enemy leader vulnerable and have to choose wheter to save yours or capture the enemy...etc etc.
In CTF the only tension moments is when both teams capture the two flags. That's all. The 90% of the CTF games consists of defending your base or attacking the other one, which is very repetitive.
CTL has a lot of room for diversity and strategy, and I don't think all the games are going to be similar.
So please, stop painting CTF like it is the best gamemode in history, I got tired of hearing your praises, man.
CTL is as good as any CTF gametype or even better.
Last edited by Pulletlamer; 09-15-2011 at 09:51 AM.
Agree. Obviously there would need to be some play testing and balancing done by Epic.
Sigh. First, I said thank you to the people who voted no and expressed why. Look at my posts.
Second, I have played CTL.............many times already. As I said, I had early access to the beta and also played it during the final few weeks of the beta. It simply is not a substitute for a real capture the flag game and as you look around the forum, many people have expressed quite clearly that they don't like it.
^ That it it's not a valid substitute for CTF it's your opinion. In my opinion it is.
I prefer games that bring new game modes and improve, not always the same modes (like CTF) over and over again.
You're saying that since you tried it, it can't be a good substitute and it can't work because you say so and your opinion is the one that matters, right? Lol.
Also making a poll before half of the people who voted in it haven't played the mode yet (since the game has not been released) removes any possible validity it could have.
Try making this poll 3-4 months after the game has been released and then we'll talk about what gamemodes Gears needs.
CTF is not needed since CTL is a similar gamemode (and in my opinion better, but whatever, to each it's own).
You're making accusations that make no sense. How do you get "my opinion is the only one that matters" out of what I've written?
Also, I would venture to say the majority of this forum has played CTL as nearly everyone here was in the beta. Yet again I point to the MANY threads about changing or removing CTL for something else (like Guardian again).
I'm not going to argue with you because it's pointless for both of us. How about this - I'll make a poll a few months from now to see how many people truly like CTL. Between the playlist population numbers and the poll we'll have a good idea. I'm willing to bet it will be less than 50% like it and the playlist is less played by % than Guardian was (or a real CTF would be).
I was referring to your quote of my other post. Anyways it doesn't matter.
I'm not saying you must do this or that. I just said that people's opinion may be different when they have played the gamemode more, which is perefectly reasonable in my opinion.
I don't care at all if CTF gets added, I just won't play it since it's boring as hell IMO. Just don't touch CTL.
Last edited by Pulletlamer; 09-15-2011 at 11:36 AM.
I totally agree with OP.
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Yeah am up for this would be hard though..
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CTF and FFA ... I know GOW is team based but hell why not try it out.
Could be a good gamemode for gears
I think it would work great in gears but I think running the flag would be too simple. To make the gametype better I think the flagholders movement speed would have to be lower like in Halo.
The game mode itself might also benefit from alternate swaps. I kinda feel this way for all the game modes in general, but this game mode would definitely be better with swaps set specifically for this game mode if it was ever made imo.
Also I think they would have to look into whether or not execution rules would be a better option than their mix of warzone/execution rules for this game mode.
Not sure how much of this was in the op, just throwing it out there.
I've always wanted this in Gears. First title update plox?
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You bring up a lot of good points. Although, it may get a little too "campy," and Epic is trying to steer clear from that all together. Perhaps if Epic could toss in that Gears twist...
Then again, Epic already tried CTF with a Gears twist, and it tasted awful. Which might be why they created CTL, to take the good things from Submission and Guardian and make it more fast-paced, not campy, and intense. If that could happen with a pure CTF gametype, then I'd like to see that come to fruition.
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I recall when I used to be a huge Guardian player. It was the only MP I played in Gears 2, and the only reason why I played Gears 2 MP in the first place. I honestly thought Guardian was never coming back, but once again Epic tells us they're still here for us, and that they love us. <3
100% supporting a true ctf gametype
I'd rather have a neutral flag (flag spawns in middle of the maps) rather than 2 flag.
If there is a flag mode you should be restricted from roadie running.
Yes, I support this idea 100%.
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Very Nice..agreed...im sure Epic could find a sweet spot
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