Warfare strategy.

[commiecat]

Quick version: on maps like Downtown and Floodgate, do you use the orb more defensively or offensively, and why?

Long version: I usually play on the MPUK warfare server with relatively high ping coming from the US. The times I play the server is pretty packed and there are some really fun games. Downtown and Floodgate are two of my favorite maps because they're pretty standard in their layout where each side has their own prime.

I play DT defensively with the orb and have been called "orb sabateur" on more than one occasion. My thing with DT is that it's a map with: a tank, 'deemer, shaped charge, and titans on that server, so losing two nodes within seconds isn't that unusual. I'll hold the orb at a node, ask about what's at the other next one, and wait for it to come down before advancing. I'll even say to other orb runners "2 titans and goliath at center" and sure enough, they hop on their board and gung-ho it. Secondary rage when the orb is about to respawn and someone else picks it up only to get fragged.

On Floodgate I'm more aggressive with the orb as long as there's towing and someone keeps an eye on the redeemer. For inexplicable reasons, though, people love running the orb to flood regardless of situation, even when the timer isn't set and they know that an enemy shade is guarding it. I don't cap flood unless I'm nearby and there's less than 10 seconds and I'm starting to think that I'm in an extreme minority there.

So, yeah, this is mostly just a rant, but I am curious as to what your strategies might be on these maps.

[Bubble_Damage]

On Downtown, my orbrunning usually depends entirely on the status of the map and what the game "feels" like to me. If our vulnerable node is being bombarded constantly by enemies (i.e. most of the action is taking place at our vulnerable node), I'll almost always defend with the orb instead of attacking with it. Without the orb there, our node would go down way too quickly. I'll also usually hang around to defend if I'm unsure of the the status of the tank/charge/deemer and there's a chance they could be headed for us.

That said, sometimes I'll decide to risk a quick orb-run to the enemy's node in one of these situations; if the focus of the game is our node, chances are the enemy's node will be less well-defended.

As for offense, I'll decide to head for a node capture when it's the enemy node being oppressed, and our base is fairly empty. Also, if there's a friendly tank or bender heading for the enemy, I'll sometimes follow behind them hoping they could help me cap.

On Floodgate, I almost always attack with the orb, mainly because success is pretty much guaranteed. That map isn't my specialty, though.

[BlueCloud]

I somehow don't like playing on the MPUK servers. The server is 32/32 and is extremely laggy, then add the trans-Atlantic lag and it's a mess. Titans galore everywhere ruining the game and lots of clueless players compared to the US servers. And they vote in lots of lame maps like Confrontation, Cold Harbor and Hostile(!).

That said, I guess I am a bit more aggressive with the orb than you on Downtown, but that's on non-titan servers. Usually, on Floodgate I don't go center node without a ride because it's mostly suicide.

Personally, I wouldn't care much about anyone calling you names on the EU servers, if you know what you're doing. That's because those are home to some really lame, spawnkilling, clueless and unsportsmanlike players.

[Izan4gi]

dude, grab the orb before the others (shoot them if necessary and push them), rush to node, cap it, suicide, do everything again till you get Node Buster and beyond. That's how matches are won on pubs nowadays: works perfectly fine!

[ummie4]

I am an extremely offensive player. I am always charging forward with or without the orb.

In downtown playing defense with the orb or tank in your prime is just prolonging your loss imo. Its only a matter of time b4 the enemy comes in with the deemer or a berserk bender and clears you out of the prime.

Floodgate I never take the orb to flood node. In a packed match you are unlikely going to be able to run the orb on foot and take center, hold it at your prime and call for a taxi.

The only map that would recommend defense with the orb is Onyx. I think a team should only advance the orb once the enemy prime node is down. I guarantee that the enemy will bring down your prime quicker than you can run the orb to take their prime. (full server with few noobs that is)

[commiecat]

dude, grab the orb before the others (shoot them if necessary and push them), rush to node, cap it, suicide, do everything again till you get Node Buster and beyond. That's how matches are won on pubs nowadays: works perfectly fine!

I try to on Downtown because, as stated originally, I'll usually remain at a node to lock until I know the next node is clear. Tertiary rage: seeing your team capture an orb-spawning node (e.g. DT center) only to promptly lose it because nobody bothered to pick up the orb.

Floodgate I'll usually grab a Viper as I feel I'm a good taxi and like to take out the enemy darkwalker before we try to run the orb to center.

I'm not that good of a DMer anyway and playing with 150+ ping makes it worse, so getting caught in a fight while running the orb on foot probably won't help my team much.

@ummie - do you play on MPUK at all? It's almost always 16v16 when I'm on so we have more people who should be attacking the next node, or at least letting me know what's there. I'll advance when we have an advantage and sitting at prime for a bit gives me the chance to get the armor and 199 health with the vials. Clear out heavy vehicles from center then move when their orb goes down. My problem is trying to cap a node guarded by the tank, and inevitably we lose our prime when orb is down.

@Blue - only a few people have said anything, and it's because I'll run around DT prime getting powerups and not advance. The titans are annoying but I do admit that they can really swing map control, which makes for exciting matches. I deal with the lag as I'm usually playing around 6:30PM EDT and the US servers are empty at that time.

[100GPing100]

My strategy:
I grab the orb and run trought paths that are not very used. I keep making a link to the enemy's core, when it is done I grab a vehicle and attack their core.

My alternative strategy:
I get a powerfull vehicle and kill people.

[bclagge]

Floodgate:

Orb runs to center pretty much require a tow or at least an aggressive team to beat on the node and prevent spawns. I almost never defend prime with the orb unless the enemy is very aggressive and winning. In which case we're probably going to lose anyway but at least that gives my team the chance to get to center, maybe with a redeemer too.

I'll defend flood node sometimes if there's less than 20 secs on the countdown. As far as capping goes with a nightshade guarding, just come in on the second level and jump right down to the lift. Do a lift jump and land on top of the node. If the enemy has a strong presence at flood sometimes it important to cap it even if the timer's not low. Because once it gets low they may lock with the orb, combined with a Nightshade and a bunch of people on foot and you lose the countdown.

Downtown:

Downtown rewards aggressive strategies. Depending on the situation I may defend center with the orb for a time, but almost never our prime. And having a tank in your own prime is like giving up on offense entirely.

And IMO 32 players is too many, Titan is ghey in Warfare, and my ping over there is terrible. Plus their rules are too strict and their admins enforce them. You will NEVER catch me in that server.

[SniperHF]

I too prefer the orb for offense 95% of the time. But there are targeted situations. Sos mentioned one of them. Floodgate where the counter is high but you know they are trying to lock it down. Take it early take it often. I'd prefer it destroyed by gunfire but it's better than getting flooded to death.

The main situation I like orb defense for is in targeted situations. I pay a lot of attention to the map and often times I see a race to who can shoot down a node faster. If I can hold prime a little longer on either map with the orb my team can win the race.

Also agree with st00p on flood and taking center on foot. In a full match with average or better players trying to get center on foot with orb is too risky. Your orb can be out of commission for a long time.

I guess I would prefer orb stay at center on DT rather than charge forward into a hail of bender fire shock rifles. I'd rather see coordinated deemer attacks + orb movement, shape charge, or even bender attacks on EP.

The thing that frustrates me with orb defense is a lot of the time the rest of the team cues off the orb and starts turtling as well. If anything when defending using the orb you need the rest of your guys out forcing the issue on the other team so you can find a seam and move forward.

[dickbird]

Whether to go on offense or defense, with the orb or otherwise, is one of the main questions I constantly ask as I'm playing. I try to pick up on as much of what's going on to help decide me on it.

Is everybody on the team rushing off to the next objective and leaving the prime undefended? Well that's something to think about, for example. Do I know where the enemy orb is right now? Does somebody have the nuke, and which team is he on? What about the tank, or the levi, where are they?

And I have to keep one eye on the mini map, always. On some maps it's more important than others, but it's always important.

There's some situations where I god damn it will not budge an inch off prime with the orb, even if some noodge in a manta is trying to get me to hop on. On torlan for example, if we don't have at least one side node down, forget it. And if we do have one side node please do not tow me to the side we already have.

It just comes down to what I think the odds of making a successful run are, on the whole, versus the chances that the enemy orb (for example) is just going to walk in and take our prime two seconds after I leave it.

Screenshots:


http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/1...shot00191o.jpg
By dickbird at 2011-09-13

http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/1...nshot00187.jpg
By dickbird at 2011-09-13

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/278...shot00164k.jpg
By dickbird at 2011-09-13

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/6...shot00122f.jpg
By dickbird at 2011-09-13

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/6...shot00099x.jpg
By dickbird at 2011-09-13

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/1...nshot00088.jpg
By dickbird at 2011-09-13

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/890...shot00023t.jpg
By dickbird at 2011-09-13

[Oldskool0482]

I think it depends on the map and whats going on in it as dickbird and sniper have said on whether you play the orb offesnively/defensively. I myself am not an orb runner in warfare. Funny how that is cause in vctf I am a flag runner lol but anyways. I myself am a floater and go where I am needed, breaking down nodes and building them by hand.

I let others run the orb, I figure my DM skills are better suited doing what I do and trying to knock the next node down for example if the orb is guarding say center node at downtown. I would be going after eprime to take it down. Floodgate I float between flood/center as needed. and will hit eprime/protect prime if its in dire need.

Downtown I am an offensive floater, always attacking the next node in the progression attempting to take it down/and or if enemy has tank attempting to kill that. Honestly I think it all depends on who is on your team and how they play on how the orb should be played. If you have say me and ummie on your team and you have the orb, we both are offensive and always usually attacking the next node in the progression so playing defense with it wouldn't be a horrible idea until we get the other one down. If you have defensive people who can guard nodes well with vehicles then being offensive with it is probably a better idea. Just pends on the team you have.

[Oldskool0482]

*edit* Double post ooopsies

[bclagge]

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/1...shot00191o.jpg
By dickbird at 2011-09-13

http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/1...nshot00187.jpg
By dickbird at 2011-09-13

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/278...shot00164k.jpg
By dickbird at 2011-09-13

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/6...shot00122f.jpg
By dickbird at 2011-09-13

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/6...shot00099x.jpg
By dickbird at 2011-09-13

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/1...nshot00088.jpg
By dickbird at 2011-09-13

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/890...shot00023t.jpg
By dickbird at 2011-09-13

Holy bloom Batman! Let me know if you'd like me to share my UTconfig.ini with you. I can save you some frames and earn you some visibility.

Since this is a "Warfare strategy" thread, let's talk about the Leviathan on Serenity. This is IMO, but, I strongly feel that the Levi should be kept safely tucked behind e-prime.

Some people like to attack the core with it. That only works if the teams are terribly imba! Some people like to stick it out a little bit so they can shoot and score some pointz with the main gun. Ok, well if you do that now the enemy can shoot you immediately as they spawn by the tank. Kill them all you like but they just respawn in the SAME spot shooting you again.

If you keep it tucked away you can survive indefinitely with 1 man in the turret and 1 man (with an AVRIL) healing. Shock turret controls attackers, main gun takes out anyone coming in the front including the tank, and the enemy has to walk halfway across the map to shoot you usually just to die right away.

I just felt the need to post that as sooooo many people noob it up in the Levi and it kills me. 4/5 times if you get a 75% health Levi tucked into the prime node the map is over. It's just a matter of getting attackers into the core.

So those of you who complain about me being 'cowardly' in the Levi, suck it, I will do what I do. If you don't like you can just try and get the Levi before me.

[ummie4]

I dissagree sos. The Levi should be parked on the top of the hill between the nodes for all to see! Jk I don't know what people are thinking when they deploy there. It can be shot at from anywhere on the map.

[Bubble_Damage]

lol sos, my levi strategy is pretty much the opposite of yours.

Rushing the core with the levi, in my opinion, is the best idea when your team has both primes. I consider two ways to take advantage of this maneuver (the latter of which virtually never happens in a public match). One way is to get at least three people in the levi when hiding in EP: a driver, a guy in the laser turret, and a guy in the shock turret. The driver heads for the core, firing the main weapon consistently. The laser turret guy switches between laser (for vehicles) and stinger (for people or faster vehicles). The shock turret guy shoots shock balls at spawn points. When (if) the core is reached, the laser turret switches to stinger, and all 3 aim and fire at the core.

If the levi in the above approach reaches the core, it deals a total of 770 damage per second. That will kill a full-health core in 6.5 seconds. In my view, the chance of dealing that kind of damage is very desirable -- enough so to outweigh the fact that the chances of doing so are pretty slim. It isn't rare in a balanced match for that to be successful, though.

The 2nd strategy is to have 1 person head for the core with the levi, while 3-6 others are assigned the task of attacking the core as well. The levi will provide a great distraction, leaving the core open to attack by the rest of the team.

In my experience, defending with the levi behind EP doesn't usually work out too well. What I usually do is come around the back with a berserk bender, kill the shock turret 1st, and then circle the levi until I die or the berserk runs out. And a well organized enemy team that doesn't immediately give up can keep pretty consistent fire on the levi, and it won't go down after too long.

If the levi's inhabitants are skilled though, it may indeed last awhile, but even so, this usually results in a stalemate. Usually much of the enemy team will dedicate themselves to defense as well, and core attackers will be killed promptly. Much of the team with EP will be focused on healing the levi, as well.

My 2 cents.

EDIT: Oh god, those people who mount in the middle of the map. I really don't understand why they think that works, are they not aware the enemy team is provided weapons as well? I call them "levi-tards" and scream at them.

[bclagge]

In all fairness, you are the ONLY person I have ever seen use a berserk Bender on a Levi. Which is terribly effective I must say. So if I were fighting against you I'd probably ask for a dedicated AVRILer to keep an eye out for a Bender .

[Bubble_Damage]

Hehe, good luck with that, all I have to do is swing my mouse to the left and right a bit and all AVRiLs are taken care of. I'm surprised more people don't use this technique, it's quite easy and effective on Serenity because of all the berserks. It's fun to use against nodes, too.

Pro tip, though: If a berserk bender is attacking your levi, mount the leviathan immediately and try to finish it off with turrets. A berserk bender used well can deal 1000-2000 damage per second if the levi is unmounted, but only 400-800 if it's mounted. I will not be explaining why.

[bclagge]

Good to know, thanks!

[SniperHF]

On the levi, Drive that hog to prime and do not deploy unless you are going to blast the core with it at blue EP. Use your primary fire to hit the node from long distance so you do not take link fire from spawning enemies. It can be a little hard to hit but it's not bad. So long as the levi node is build back up, switch to the shock turret to clear out enemies once at the prime and never stop shooting the node. The levi is best with 1-2 people, more than that and your D gets too weak.

This isn't the only levi strategy that works but I think it's the best because it works more consistently and you take out the variables of needing a good gunner. If nothing else it's a great distracting for the enemy and you can now taxi much more freely. But more often than not on epic #2 it will get you the prime node.

I'm not opposed to holding your own prime with levi but only if it's a really bad team. That way you have a little more freedom for your guys to maneuver without worrying about D. But you need to pay very close attention to the enemy orb and have your #5 button ready. Frankly I see a lot of people fail miserably at holding nodes with levi.

In all fairness, you are the ONLY person I have ever seen use a berserk Bender on a Levi. Which is terribly effective I must say. So if I were fighting against you I'd probably ask for a dedicated AVRILer to keep an eye out for a Bender .

Hey I do it too ! Course I learned it from Bubble/Jaff
I think part of its effectiveness is how much it confuses the levi driver/gunners though.


And yeah dickbird you have some post processing issues

[commiecat]

I play the levi node on Serenity the same way I play the flood node; worry more about denying the opposition when the countdown gets low rather than locking it.

I'll man those lovely shock turrets if I don't see anyone in it, but otherwise I'll ignore it in lieu of other vehicles. On the flip side I'll try to grab a manta and any powerups to attack the opposing levi if it spawns.

[SniperHF]

I play the levi node on Serenity the same way I play the flood node; worry more about denying the opposition when the countdown gets low rather than locking it.

I agree with this 110%. Reason being it slows down your teams offense with the orb because people tend not to spawn at the levi node, and your taxis have to fly over to pick up the runner. It causes a lot of problems.

[bclagge]

On the levi, Drive that hog to prime and do not deploy unless you are going to blast the core with it at blue EP. Use your primary fire to hit the node from long distance so you do not take link fire from spawning enemies. It can be a little hard to hit but it's not bad. So long as the levi node is build back up, switch to the shock turret to clear out enemies once at the prime and never stop shooting the node. The levi is best with 1-2 people, more than that and your D gets too weak.

This isn't the only levi strategy that works but I think it's the best because it works more consistently and you take out the variables of needing a good gunner. If nothing else it's a great distracting for the enemy and you can now taxi much more freely. But more often than not on epic #2 it will get you the prime node.

What seems to often happen to me is I'll have no turrets so I'll switch around to take out various threats. Lo and behold, I switch to shock turret to take out the DD link gunner behind me, and Joe Noob gets in the Levi primary seat. And then proceeds to flip the Levi or get it stuck on a tree or something.

[Sgt_SalsaMan]

Been playin on the Euro war servers a bit since im over here for now. IMO there are quite different strategies here because (SIGH) there are Titans on their servers (LAME). The general strat I see is to spam and get kills and get Titan then hopefully abuse them before the other team has titans.

Orb really only matters in the first few minutes of the match until everybody starts getting Titans so play offensively with it as long as you can then orb running is considerably less useful on smaller maps -ex. Downtown-when there is Titan spam everywhere.

[Cr4zy]

Do not judge Europe stratergies by our public's

Also if you're in the EU why are you not on the pug Salsa?!

[Sgt_SalsaMan]

Do not judge Europe stratergies by our public's

Also if you're in the EU why are you not on the pug Salsa?!

I had no idea the pugs were still going on... I'll check irc today.

[Polish]

Been playin on the Euro war servers a bit since im over here for now. IMO there are quite different strategies here because (SIGH) there are Titans on their servers (LAME). The general strat I see is to spam and get kills and get Titan then hopefully abuse them before the other team has titans.

Orb really only matters in the first few minutes of the match until everybody starts getting Titans so play offensively with it as long as you can then orb running is considerably less useful on smaller maps -ex. Downtown-when there is Titan spam everywhere.

I sometimes play on the european servers during lunch at work. Its interesting to see how different they are. The gameplay is different, and they absolutely ADORE tank crossing and confrontation. I actually enjoy Conf quite a but, but can't stand tank crossing. Damn game goes on for ages.

[dickbird]

Holy bloom Batman! Let me know if you'd like me to share my UTconfig.ini with you.

I'm deeply conflicted about the visual effects issue. I think all the fog and stuff is real pretty, so I've been playing with it on for a while. But yes it is a major, major, major factor in Avalanche sometimes.

[bclagge]

But don't you eventually stop noticing the visuals and concentrate entirely on gameplay?

[BlueCloud]

Regarding Levi on Serenity, I am one of the people that sometimes deploys in the middle between primes(not on the hill but just out of the trees). I do that only when our team doesn't have eprime and/or our prime. I deploy there because you can hit both the nodes from that point with the primary depending on what's happening. If you drive to your prime, you may get it and then it's a long drive to their prime. If you're optimistic and drive to their prime, many times your prime gets orbed or taken in the meantime and it's a long and dangerous drive back to your prime, sometimes even your core gets taken out by the time you drive back. If EP is taken, I drive there.

So my strategy is to get our prime back, take out EP and then drive there to safety instead of driving around the map in that extremely slow vehicle. Does this make me a levi-tard?

[bclagge]

No, just a regular tard