kismet killing iPad?

[kamequazi]

Anyone know of any issues with -- I almost hate to say this-- having too much Kismet for iPad (at least iPad 1) to run?

Here's the deal-- my game runs fine on iPhone 4. It crashes iPhone 3Gs and iPad 1 almost instantly (at the moment of load-- the level never actually appears)

IF, however, I delete a few seemingly random chunks of kismet, the level then loads (but does not function properly, of course). It does not seem to matter which chunks-- as soon as I reduce the kismet to a certain ambigious level, the game opens up on the iPad.

Is this a known issue? I really, really, REALLY need to fix this issue tonight.

[darthviper107]

iPhone 3GS and iPad 1 don't have as much memory, test and see if you remove assets and it runs better--that would prove it's a memory issue

[kamequazi]

Testing like a crazy man. The thing is, Infinity Blade runs fine on this iPad, and it's nearly twice as big an IPA. Could it be a matter of how much memory is being needed at any given time? My IPA is, essentially, one really big level. I think I.B. was comprised of several smaller levels. Damn! There's no turning back now...

You all think that's it? Memory issues loading a really big world?

[kamequazi]

It's hard to imagine that KISMET ALONE is what's killing this thing for iPhone 3GS and iPad 1-- but there's no question about it. When I delete all the Kismet, the entire environment runs fine.

Damn and drat!

[NothAU]

Try make a barebones level with just the kismet, and only what you need for the kismet to work.
Test that on the iPad.

If that works, gradually add stuff until it doesn't, and let us know.
If not, well, let us know

[kamequazi]

I am in the process of something like that. I began deleting chunks of Kismet, then trying to run on the iPad (crash), etc, etc, until when I was finally down to about 20% the level ran. This makes me think that it is, in fact, something in that particular Kismet group, and not a memory issue, since I had reduced the entire game -- both in geometry and kismet-- by at least 75%.

I just don't understand why it would make a difference between iPhone4/iPad2 and iPhone3GS/iPad1. If it was a memory thing, that would sorta make sense. This just seems like a difference in how they are responding to a random chunk of Kismet.

Still trying to narrow it down. Currently re-opened the full level and saved out a version with ONLY the suspect chunks of kismet deleted. Exporting to device now.

[kamequazi]

No breakthroughs so far. iPad still crashed after I deleted what seemed to be the suspect kismet sections. I've expanded out to a much larger section of similar/related kismet and am trying again.

Does ANYone have any idea why this would work just fine on iPhone4/iPad2 but not on iPhone3Gs/iPad1?

[kamequazi]

I'm all out of ideas. I've reduced the kismet again to about 25%-- but a completely DIFFERENT 25% than last time. This is staggeringly frustrating.

I've got the worldwide gaming press talking about this game-- dream:scape-- before it's even released, and now it looks half-doomed because of some ghost in the %$^&* kismet.

Will Apple even let me release this if it only works on iPhone4/iPad2???

[Archerx]

Just a suggestion, I'm also making a game and when it's starting on my computer the begining is very choppy but I think it's because I have a quite a few level loaded events so all those events firing at the same time might be causing the trouble. Try seeing how many things are being executed at the same time by kismet and try and add some tiny delays to ease the load.

Just an idea I'm throwing out there. Sorry if the writing is hard to understand, it's too early in the morning :P

[kamequazi]

I understand totally. Thanks, I'll give that a shot.

[Archerx]

Good Luck and please let me know how it works out!

[kamequazi]

Still no luck-- I tried deleting the "level loaded" event that triggers everything, just to see if it was too much too quick, but no difference. As far as I can tell, the level SHOULD just be loading with virtually no interactivity (although 99% of the kismet is still there). It still crashes instantly (well, halfway through the intro movie).

Any other suggestions??

[NothAU]

Check your PMs

[Verm]

There could possibly be some type of loop in your kismet chain that you are creating that could be causing it to explode and by explode I mean running out memory. Make sure that your script is clean and not constantly looping a really long chain of events. Ok, maybe I am wrong after reading your latest post. Perhaps a bug of sorts then.

[omegabluestudio]

I hope you have figured this out. I know this might be a pain to do, but have you moved to the latest build of UDK? If it works fine on one set of devices and not the other, i doubt its your kismet. I had issues before with older builds with little things that should work, then when i moved up a version it seemed to fix itself. good luck man, i can't wait to see your finished game.

[Naxera]

I bet it is the level, my original version of Virtual NY ran fine on my iPhone 4 (much bigger) but crashed on other machines so I reduced it by about 50%. The framerate didn't improve much but it passed the review finally! (It was crashing on startup, for the other devices I believe) Wish I was able to mention it earlier

Check my map to see how much I reduced it by: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en...a6e04&t=h&z=12
You might be able to get away with dividing the map then loading different pieces of it.

[kamequazi]

As of right now I have just given up trying to get it to run on iPhone 3Gs and iPad 1. I'm terrified that Apple won't accept it if it only runs on iPhone 4, iPod Touch 4th Gen and iPad 2. I don't know what else to do.

I've been offered some assistance on figuring out the problem, but I've been too busy to pack it all up and send it off-- it's going to be a HUGE upload/download.

I have been scared to install the latest build of UDK, for fear that it won't function with my game correctly. Is that a silly fear? Should I go for it?

[Naxera]

I usually have several versions of UDK, it would take a while (particularly converting the textures to mobile format) but you can copy everything into a new UDK build and still have the old one.

I don't think Apple will allow you to specify which devices the app can run on, but if you can get them to have it run on certain devices that would be great!

[Naxera]

Also if you have lots of static meshes you could try to put the originals into larger meshes, but that seems to improve things more on PC than for mobile, at least for my stuff.

If nothing works, can't you cut the game in half, and just release a sequel?

[Angel_Mapper]

Have you looked at the log file to see if it gives any clues?

[ustolemygmrtag]

I have no experience with UDK Mobile, but would like to offer my best of wished to get it going. That would kill me if my game had a major bug like that so freaking close to release.

If I had the knowledge to help, I would offer it freely.

Just a Friendly bump for another Indie with a Dream.

Keep us all apprised of the situation. We here a Faultline are rooting for you.

[kamequazi]

Believe it or not, I am still relatively new to UDK. How does one find the log file for a crashed iPad UDK game?

BTW, THANKS for the encouragement, ustolemygmrtag. That means a lot.

[kamequazi]

All right, add iPod 4th generation to the list of devices this crashes. Tally so far: it runs fine on iPad 2 and iPhone 4, it instantly crashes iPhone 3Gs, iPad 1 and iPod Touch 4th gen.

ARGHHH!!!!!!

[Verm]

Check the log section in the editor is what Angel Mapper is referring to.

[Naxera]

4th gen iPod touch has half the memory of iPhone 4

I used to be able to have my Chicago and New York in one map, using level streaming, until they got just too big (too many meshes) and started crashing even on my iPhone 4.

Did you try deleting lots of high-poly meshes and combining several models into one?

[kamequazi]

Even if I delete virtually all of the geometry, it still crashes. If I leave all the geometry but delete most of the kismet, it runs fine on iPad, etc. It definitely seems to be the kismet somehow causing this.

[Naxera]

Is all your kismet in one screen, if so divide them into sequences. Also if you have music, try deleting it.

[Naxera]

Also it may have something to do with saving and loading stuff in the beginning or end, try deleting those.

[Archerx]

I have another idea for you, except I don't know the solution but I remember you saying you used a lot of precomputed visibility in your game. One of the limitations is

"Doesn't handle streaming levels efficiently, all data is stored in the persistent level instead of streamed in and out with the streaming levels"

If you have a lot of level streaming all the data is not being kept with them, but with the first/main level thus needing a lot of memory to start the game up. I hope that leads you to the right direction.

Is there are way to get the UDK to tell you how much memory a level is using?

[kamequazi]

I do do a lot of saving/loading right from the beginning, but if I delete that whole sequence it doesn't make any difference.

I do have music (well, sound effects). I will try removing them and see what happens.

Regarding the precomputed visibility, you are right, Archerx, that is a definite limitation. For that reason, I ended up compiling several of my loaded levels into the main level. Still, even if I remove the loaded levels, everything still crashes.

Fingers are crossed, though-- a programmer and saint of a person has offered to take a comb-through of the level kismet. At the same time, I am still testing every solution I (and you all!) can think of.

Thanks for the suggestions! Keep 'em coming!

[kamequazi]

It's come down to this: I think it is possible to simply have too much kismet for some lower-memory devices. Here's why I think this: when I delete approximately 70% of my kismet, the level runs on iPad1 (and I assume iPhone 3Gs, iPod Touch 4). It doesn't matter which 70% I delete. Lowering the original kismet amount by 70% makes the level run. Of course, it is totally useless, but it runs.

My head is sore from beating it against this here wall. I am doomed, and so is dream:scape.

[Archerx]

I'm sure a solution will come up, have you tried emailing epic directly? Maybe they could help.

How many kismet nodes are you using and would you mind showing a screenshot of your kismet? I want to know how much is too much kismet and I'm sure it would help a lot of people too.

I'm still hoping for you!

[kamequazi]

Thanks Archerx. At this point, a very helpful friend has made the suggestion that I simply make multiple versions of the world, each containing a manageable chunk of the kismet, and simply progress through them. Not sure if this will work, but it seems possible. If I have any success, I will let you all know-- and yes, I will try to quantify how much kismet is too much kismet.

[omegabluestudio]

As much as it sucks to only be able to play it on a few of the devices, i would recommend submitting it for the ones that work instead of driving yourself crazy right now. I've watched the video and read about your game and it looks like a winner. In the App Store i've seen games that only are for Ipad or Ipad/Ipod 4g ect......so submitting for just a few devices is better than none for now IMO.

[kamequazi]

If Apple will let me do that, omegabluestudio, that is exactly what I am going to do, with an update at some point to include all devices. Sheesh. I just wish I'd known about this limitation beforehand, but there's always a work-around if one looks hard enough for it, eh?

[AdAstra]

You can probably find someone to turn all that Kismet into unreal script or combine it into one or several Kismet nodes...