The God King Club

[Vile Majesty]

I think if we feel some of the rules are unnecessary then we discuss changing them and after they are changed in the OP then people can qualify with the new rules. It seems unfair to the rest of us who followed the OP if someone can get in without having followed them as they currently stand. I know I would have liked to use the gem shield to have the extra points in attack. If we say they must show stats in the video in real time after the fight, then I think this is pretty clear. Surely the rules need to be followed to be admitted, that seems a pretty basic concept.

+1 there.

P.S. Gratumos on your banner btw

[Vile Majesty]

Guys,

Are we having two issues all of a sudden?

1. Soldier's entry in the club. For me Silver's word is final. If he decides that Soldier gets in, he gets in. If Silver wants to vote, we vote.
2. Changing the OP (for the 2nd time in two weeks if I'm not mistaken). If we're going down this road, lets get together our collective knowledge and do a complete revision. For sure we have the know-how necessary. However, I don't think that is necessary. GK Club is hard, as it should be. As the last one in I can attest to that, and that should not change. The rules are to scare people away, in a good way so the ones who do decides to go for it are dedicated and see the Club as something to aspire for, not just your every day kinda thing. The rules are clear, just read!

Two issues, yes it seems so to me as well. For Issue 2, SAB hope you don't mind summarize your points earlier (including those discussed between you and me) and then we current GK club members can all vote on it?

[Insert]

I think if we feel some of the rules are unnecessary then we discuss changing them and after they are changed in the OP then people can qualify with the new rules. It seems unfair to the rest of us who followed the OP if someone can get in without having followed them as they currently stand. I know I would have liked to use the gem shield to have the extra points in attack. If we say they must show stats in the video in real time after the fight, then I think this is pretty clear. Surely the rules need to be followed to be admitted, that seems a pretty basic concept.

If the OP got changed, (which only Silver can dictate) then I would feel yours, Pr!'s, Vile's, and SAB's (as well as every other member's) pain. Oh, it would have been so much easier with 9 more attack...

At this point all we need is a post from Silver, either about rule changing, Soldier's admittance, or just generally something about this club.

[Silversabeast]

Alright, here is a post containing my arguments VM.

Soldier should be let in. His fight was made no easier by him not showing his stats in the video. We can see from the amount of breaks and the damage he is doing that he indeed did use a 5:1 ratio. I know some of you (looking at you groove) think I'm trying to sneak soldier in unfairly but come on, how long do I have to be a good member of the forum to be trusted?

The elemental defense issue: if someone is using elemental defense and it doesn't make their fight ANY easier, what is the point of banning it? I simply don't understand. We simply outline the issue in the OP and tell them to test their stats before trying the fight to make sure they don't have an unfair advantage. We can see if they have an unfair advantage in the video they show us.

@TamL: but the essence of the GK club is the skill required to defeat the gk at a 5:1 ratio, yes? Of course we need some extra rules to ban OP items, but if soldier did the challenge and it was just as hard for him as it was everyone else, what's the point of not letting him in?

@Pr!Gab: Scaring people who have the skill to do the challenge away is good? I can't agree with that. Soldier did what we all did at the same difficulty we did it at, he just forgot to show his stats at the end.

Obviously the OP needs updates where it doesn't have them. The gem circle not being banned is evidence of this. If someone put up a video where they followed all the rules, but won using the gem circle, which is clearly an unfair advantage, would we allow them entry but not soldier? That doesn't seem right to me AT ALL.

I see where you all are coming from, as I used to agree with you, but seriously guys... We're making this less about skill and more about following minute rules that don't change the difficulty.

[Vile Majesty]

Alright, here is a post containing my arguments VM.

Soldier should be let in. His fight was made no easier by him not showing his stats in the video. We can see from the amount of breaks and the damage he is doing that he indeed did use a 5:1 ratio. I know some of you (looking at you groove) think I'm trying to sneak soldier in unfairly but come on, how long do I have to be a good member of the forum to be trusted?

The elemental defense issue: if someone is using elemental defense and it doesn't make their fight ANY easier, what is the point of banning it? I simply don't understand. We simply outline the issue in the OP and tell them to test their stats before trying the fight to make sure they don't have an unfair advantage. We can see if they have an unfair advantage in the video they show us.

@TamL: but the essence of the GK club is the skill required to defeat the gk at a 5:1 ratio, yes? Of course we need some extra rules to ban OP items, but if soldier did the challenge and it was just as hard for him as it was everyone else, what's the point of not letting him in?

@Pr!Gab: Scaring people who have the skill to do the challenge away is good? I can't agree with that. Soldier did what we all did at the same difficulty we did it at, he just forgot to show his stats at the end.

Obviously the OP needs updates where it doesn't have them. The gem circle not being banned is evidence of this. If someone put up a video where they won, using the gem circle which is clearly an unfair advantage, would we allow them entry but not soldier? That doesn't seem right to me AT ALL.

I see where you all are coming from, as I used to agree with you, but seriously guys... We're making this less about skill and more about following minute rules that don't change the difficulty.

As for S4G, given that I saw his video and I do believe he has the skill and proficiency required of a GK club warrior, I am fine with =Silver='s final decision on his acception into the club. If =Silver= still can't decide, let's do it the democratic way -- Vote! (The Game) among us current GK club members. Btw SAB I believe you aren't trying to sneak S4G in though I do think S4G ought to somehow, for his own benefit, learn a lesson from all this arguments about his qualification. No offense, S4G

Elemental Defense issue: you said "We" can judge their qualification video. Can you specify more clearly whether you mean =Silver= alone or actually all of us current members (which might be a bit too troublesome don't you think?). Overall I think this is a issue that requires a democratic vote from all current members.

[Pr!Gab]

@Pr!Gab: Scaring people who have the skill to do the challenge away is good? I can't agree with that. Soldier did what we all did at the same difficulty we did it at, he just forgot to show his stats at the end.

I do believe that skilled players are attracted to the challange rather than scared away by it. The impossible has always been a beacon for the intrepid

Anyway, it's late here. Catch up with you guys tomorrow.

[Silversabeast]

As for S4G, given that I saw his video and I do believe he has the skill and proficiency required of a GK club warrior, I am fine with =Silver='s final decision on his acception into the club. If =Silver= still can't decide, let's do it the democratic way -- Vote! (The Game) among us current GK club members. Btw SAB I believe you aren't trying to sneak S4G in though I do think S4G ought to somehow, for his own benefit, learn a lesson from all this arguments about his qualification. No offense, S4G

Elemental Defense issue: you said "We" can judge their qualification video. Can you specify more clearly whether you mean =Silver= alone or actually all of us current members (which might be a bit too troublesome don't you think?). Overall I think this is a issue that requires a democratic vote from all current members.

I mean silver, although if he puts it up to vote then we can judge it

[Silversabeast]

I do believe that skilled players are attracted to the challange rather than scared away by it. The impossible has always been a beacon for the intrepid

Anyway, it's late here. Catch up with you guys tomorrow.

My core argument here is that the rules that don't change the difficulty and are just there for the sake of being there shouldn't be there. (weird sentence :P)

If soldier did the challenge and it was just as difficult as it was for all of us, there isn't a point to not letting him in. It only tarnishes the club's reputation as a skill-based challenge

[Vile Majesty]

I mean silver, although if he puts it up to vote then we can judge it

Ok that's what I thought you meant. We can vote now if =Silver= gives us the green light, and so is S4G's case. I'd say let's all wait to hear from Silver first?

[Silversabeast]

Yeah. Let's wait.

[Soldier4Good]

As for S4G, given that I saw his video and I do believe he has the skill and proficiency required of a GK club warrior, I am fine with =Silver='s final decision on his acception into the club. If =Silver= still can't decide, let's do it the democratic way -- Vote! (The Game) among us current GK club members. Btw SAB I believe you aren't trying to sneak S4G in though I do think S4G ought to somehow, for his own benefit, learn a lesson from all this arguments about his qualification. No offense, S4G

Elemental Defense issue: you said "We" can judge their qualification video. Can you specify more clearly whether you mean =Silver= alone or actually all of us current members (which might be a bit too troublesome don't you think?). Overall I think this is a issue that requires a democratic vote from all current members.

Thank you for believing I did it legit. It means a lot considering only one other person believes me.

[Laygh]

Thank you for believing I did it legit. It means a lot considering only one other person believes me.

Thee were many errors with your video. They were all stated and you defended yourself quite well against those accusations. I believe you as well. I wish you the best of luck for when Silver decides.

[Silversabeast]

It feels good knowing soldier and i are not alone

[Soldier4Good]

It feels good knowing soldier and i are not alone

Yes it does Thank you Laygh. RESPECT

[Laygh]

Yes it does Thank you Laygh. RESPECT

You are welcome. Does anyone know when Silver will be coming?

RESPECT lol

[Vile Majesty]

Thank you for believing I did it legit. It means a lot considering only one other person believes me.

You're welcome

[TamL]

Thank you for believing I did it legit. It means a lot considering only one other person believes me.

My comments aren't meant to imply I don't believe you did the fight 5:1, I think the question is whether you can fight 5:1 and be admitted without following the OP rules for the fight, like no element defence and showing the stats in real time after the fight. If it turns out you can fight 5:1 in any way you choose and without showing your stats in real time then there really shouldn't be those rules in the OP which the rest of us followed.

I hope SAB would strongly support any player, even an unknown new person, who doesn't follow the OP and that it's not just because he knows you that he holds this opinion, then that would be fair on his part.

I won't have objections if Silver decides to include you as I'm not a great rule follower myself, though I must say usually I break rules to get away with something rather than to be admitted into something.

P.S. Gratumos on your banner btw

Thank you

[Silversabeast]

I hope SAB would strongly support any player, even an unknown new person, who doesn't follow the OP and that it's not just because he knows you that he holds this opinion, then that would be fair on his part.

It isn't a case of bias man, I promise you that. I disagree with soldier on just about everything.

Like I said I used to think like you guys, but have since realized its far too strict.

[=Silver=]

Wow! What a nice debate! )))

However I meant something different. Let me explain it strait one more time to be clear, though it was explained many times before and is nothing new in general:

1. You can qualify "automatically" ONLY if you comply STRICTLY with all the rules that are in the OP. My confirmation here is just a formal line in the GK Club's Hystory of the greatest IB players, a formal start for warrior to become an official PRO one
Yes SAB, the core essence of the GK Club is a "skillbuilbing", not just beating the GK. GK is just a necessary entrance.

2. In all other cases you still may be let in, if it is exactly evident that you passed not less than the same difficulty test. But in such cases there are no any "automatic" qualifications. All active members must vote. But if just one votes "no", the answer is "no".

3. Rules in the OP can be changed and it requires a simple vote (50 +1)%. But they don't apply backwards. Only for future qualifications. Here I save a veto right for myself, but I still never ever used it. And don't want to. My only request is that try not to carry away by it and make the rules an unreadable book of 500 pages, that will require a professional lawyers to explain Rules must be clear and very simple. Yes, sometimes this is more important than some millimeters of freedom

That is how our democracy worked earlier, works now and will work after.
That's how many great warriors finally didn't get in (like Proph), that's how other great warriors re-qualified, cause it's much easier to kill the GK once more, than collect voices (like ruggedland).

What I meant is if some interested and trusted member (like SAB e.g.) would do the math: we see the damage he made (can see the attack stats), see his build, see the GK's health (it correlates proportionally to his lvl) and can say relatively exactly about the ratio. If I have it, we can vote. Or better to say - ask who is not agree. Traditionally, we did this as a secret ballot. So, since I have this "eligibility math", we'll give a time to any member to say "no" (PM me) or forget it forever

[Vile Majesty]

So there we go, a clear statement by Silver. Thank you very much

So I interpret the statement as: while we don't remove the ban on elemental defense, if a future qualifier presents us a video of a good fight albeit with elemental defense equipped, we stick to the "eligibility math" to determine that qualifier's ratio and then we existing vote on the matter (how long would the vote period be though?). Is that right?

Also SAB brought up the issue of Gem Circle not being prohibited despite it being similar in nature to Paga Circle and (especially) the Iridix. Silver did you mean to not ban Gem Circle in the first place or did you simply forgot to update the OP to take Gem Circle into account?

Also should we begin our vote on S4G's membership then? Do we do it as a public vote on this thread?

[=Silver=]

1. On Soldier. I haven't seen the "math" yet. Since we have it and it's ok, we'll start the poll. I think PM and 3 days will be enough. Not sure if we have to make the vote public though.

2. We may change rules. They are all up to us. Suggest amendments

3. Gem circle is fixed

[Vile Majesty]

1. My math may not be accurate but I thought someone, perhaps SAB, have done the math already I hope? Are there any clear objections to the ratio displayed in S4G's video having met 5:1 ratio?

If not then I guess we can start the vote now then (counting down 3 days), doing it via PM. I am going to PM you soon, Silver.

2. Thanks for letting us know. So back to SAB's point on elemental defence. From the way Silver put it, IMHO we could still leave the requirement of "no elemental defence in all cases" rule intact to serve as an "more straightforward/automatic" qualification condition. Therefore for future qualifiers it would be worthwhile to go the extra mile to avoid elemental defence (and the Gem Shield) regardless of their build for faster "automatic" qualification. If they don't choose that however, that's fine too as they will have to listen to Silver's and our say on their build and fight first.

3. Thanks for the fix

[Silversabeast]

About Soldier - Alright, well we can easily see from soldiers video that his attack is 278, and his health is 50. Magic also seems to be regenerating at the slowest rate. Shield we can not see, however, it doesn't make a difference.

We can see that the health of the GK at the beginning of the third stage is 37,221. This is the health of a level 1,450 GK right?...

This seems like all the evidence we need...

About elemental defense - as VM suggested, we could keep the OP intact, yet allow people in if we see the defense made no difference. All I want is for us to be more flexible when we see skill, instead if sticking to our ruleset

I'll recant my gem circle example here (even though its been banned now): if someone made a video following all our rules, and used the gem circle to get in (an extra TB2 is HUGE) would we let them in but not soldier? Even though we clearly see soldier is more skilled? That completely takes away from the core essence of the club, that being skill.

[gr00veh0lmes]

I underlined that because I wanted to point out to you, that what Farfield said is spot on. If S4G had been a little more 'patient' then he wouldn't have rushed into qualifying with an unacceptable stat allocation and illegal gems.

He ran them by you, and then seemed to think that it would be OK. I accept you told him it wouldn't be ok to attempt a qualifier based on those stats, and that he wouldn't be accepted into the club.

So he posted another video, again not showing his stats. He has also subsequently lost his save file and cannot attempt another try using his second build.

It doesn't sound right to me. That's all i'm saying, and you leaping to his defense, when you've been such a hard a55 in the past about adherence to the entry rules. Well,that doesn't sound right either.

What I gather from this post is you are saying soldier and I are working together to get him into the club unfairly, and I'm pretty offended by that.

Alright, let's respond.

I did tell him that his stats were not okay when he showed them to me, and I said myself his first attempt was not worthy of acceptance. However, as silver said earlier judging by the amount of breaks he got his stats seem to be okay.

I will be the first (after you of course ) to say I have been too strict about rules in the past. I have realized that I shouldn't be this strict, however, and I think solder should be let in. I know I'm not the admin and my vote won't really matter because it looks like you are not gonna vote for him, I'm just offering my thoughts.

Are you seriously accusing me of trying to get in this club unfairly? How dare you. I'm deeply offended, and I don't get offended easily. You think I would really "cheat" to get in a club on the forums of an iOS game? I killed him. Twice. That should be enough. It was a simple mistake on my part, nothing more. This mistake isn't even a big deal. All you have to do is watch the video and you can CLEARLY see I did not cheat. I thought more people would back me here, but apparently SAB is it. So thank you SAB.

About Soldier - Alright, well we can easily see from soldiers video that his attack is 278, and his health is 50. Magic also seems to be regenerating at the slowest rate. Shield we can not see, however, it doesn't make a difference.

We can see that the health of the GK at the beginning of the third stage is 37,221. This is the health of a level 1,450 GK right?...

This seems like all the evidence we need

Well.

Sorry if I offended you by suggesting you were colluding in an attempt to cheat your way into the GK club, however it wouldn't be the first time someone had attempted to do this, using the same method.

I've watched your 2nd video again, and it conforms to what would be an acceptable SP allocation. 1 question tho. How did you come to only have 26 health at the start of the 3rd phase. I can guess, but I want to hear it from you first.

However failing to even comply with the minimum requirement of verification was a thoughtless thing to do and has required work by forum members to be done on your behalf.

Why weren't you more careful the second time around? We could have avoided all this unpleasantness if you'd just followed the rules that are clearly stated in the OP.

If we are to build more flexibility into the rules as a result of this, then something good may come out of a bad situation, but to be honest I think that the minimum requirement for verification should stay as it is.

Why should we do the donkey work for those too careless to do it themselves.

[Silversabeast]

Well.

Sorry if I offended you by suggesting you were colluding in an attempt to cheat your way into the GK club, however it wouldn't be the first time someone had attempted to do this, using the same method.

I've watched your 2nd video again, and it conforms to what would be an acceptable SP allocation. 1 question tho. How did you come to only have 26 health at the start of the 3rd phase. I can guess, but I want to hear it from you first.

However failing to even comply with the minimum requirement of verification was a thoughtless thing to do and has required work by forum members to be done on your behalf.

Why weren't you more careful the second time around? We could have avoided all this unpleasantness if you'd just followed the rules that are clearly stated in the OP.

If we are to build more flexibility into the rules as a result of this, then something good may come out of a bad situation, but to be honest I think that the minimum requirement for verification should stay as it is.

Why should we do the donkey work for those too careless to do it themselves.

Again, I thought I was a trusted member here in your eyes. Guess not, though.

In the beginning of the debate, I was the only one defending soldier, and I was and still am happy to do the "work" needed to ensure a player that did the same thing we all did gets into the club.

These little rules that turn away members that have the skill required corrodes the core essence of the club.

[Pr!Gab]

These little rules that turn away members that have the skill required corrodes the core essence of the club.

Which of the current rules do you think turn members away?

I don't think the rules turned you away, neither me nor gr00veh0lmes.

As you say the whole purpose of the club is to award the most skilled players, but I would also add the most dedicated players. Your skill is naught if you don't have the focus, determination and dedication to use it.

[Silversabeast]

Which of the current rules do you think turn members away?

I don't think the rules turned you away, neither me nor gr00veh0lmes.

As you say the whole purpose of the club is to award the most skilled players, but I would also add the most dedicated players. Your skill is naught if you don't have the focus, determination and dedication to use it.

Clearly soldier has dedication, focus, and determination. He did this thing twice. (Although in the first attempt he over allocated slightly)

I would say the elemental defense rule turns people away. Rules that don't change the difficulty of the challenge are not necessary.

Rules that don't need to be there, shouldn't be there.

[gr00veh0lmes]

Again, I thought I was a trusted member here in your eyes. Guess not, though.

In the beginning of the debate, I was the only one defending soldier, and I was and still am happy to do the "work" needed to ensure a player that did the same thing we all did gets into the club.

These little rules that turn away members that have the skill required corrodes the core essence of the club.

In the beginning of the debate you didn't defend Soldier, you were the very first to query why he hadn't included his stats at the end of his video.

And as for 'a player that did the same thing we all did '. This is the point. He didn't.

Your summation of the 2nd qualifying fight was wrong on 2 points.

First, we are going on the evidence presented in the video right? So, can you explain how you arrived at the conclusion that S4G's magic regen rate was at it's slowest from watching the video?

Second, why do you say his health is at 50 when it plainly is not.

I don't think that the rules discourage people from joining the GK club, in fact the membership is looking really healthy. Where is your evidence to the contrary? It's not cool to present opinions as facts

[Pr!Gab]

Rules that don't change the difficulty of the challenge are not necessary. Rules that don't need to be there, shouldn't be there.

I couldn't agree with you more. I hate beaucracy!
But there is a chance that an elemental defense could work in favor of the combatant (depending on the stat allocation), as has already been discussed and must be cleared up in the OP. Alas, in my view it is already cleared up as it is forbidden.

[Silversabeast]

I couldn't agree with you more. I hate beaucracy!
But there is a chance that an elemental defense could work in favor of the combatant (depending on the stat allocation), as has already been discussed and must be cleared up in the OP. Alas, in my view it is already cleared up as it is forbidden.

I think we should explain the issue in the OP and tell them to test it for an unfair advantage.

[Silversabeast]

In the beginning of the debate you didn't defend Soldier, you were the very first to query why he hadn't included his stats at the end of his video.

And as for 'a player that did the same thing we all did '. This is the point. He didn't.

Your summation of the 2nd qualifying fight was wrong on 2 points.

First, we are going on the evidence presented in the video right? So, can you explain how you arrived at the conclusion that S4G's magic regen rate was at it's slowest from watching the video?

Second, why do you say his health is at 50 when it plainly is not.

I don't think that the rules discourage people from joining the GK club, in fact the membership is looking really healthy. Where is your evidence to the contrary? It's not cool to present opinions as facts

False, I was pointing out the flaws in the video as to make sure all the information available is seen by all the members. I was still on his side about it.

About the magic, yeah I can't prove that it is at a base value of 1, but I do trust what S4G has told me. Especially because he did the challenge once before, except that time he over-allocated.

About the health. I meant the BASE health. Like the one in his stats. Not the current health he had at the beginning of the third stage. That isn't really relevant. Although it is just about at half the total value, so we can conclude his base health was, indeed, 50.

Let's take it from a newcomer's point of view, shall we? Let's pretend I'm a newcomer to the forums, and I want to join the GK club. If I did the challenge at THE SAME DIFFICULTY THAT EVERYONE DID A 5:1 ON THE IB2 GK AT, I would be beyond frustrated that you guys didn't let me in because of something so small that doesn't even change the difficulty.

that is the point I'm trying to make here, this club is about skill, so rules that don't change the skill required do nothing but take away from the base idea of the whole thing.

[Pr!Gab]

I think we should explain the issue in the OP and tell them to test it for an unfair advantage.

Done!

And a couple of more characters to complete the minimum of 10.

[Silversabeast]

Done!

And a couple of more characters to complete the minimum of 10.

Alright, glad you agree! It seems we have more and more people joining our side in the elemental defense issue.

[Silversabeast]

Hey gab, can we get your vote on the S4G issue?

[gr00veh0lmes]

False eh? Lets recap.

Uhhh you're supposed to show the stats within the video...like after the fight, so we know those were actual stats you used.

All you have to do is watch the video. You can see. I can give you my word whatever that's worth

I did watch the video. But how do I know from that video that you didn't over-
allocate?

Look, it's just the rules, I'm just pointing them out.

I have 50 health. I do 278 attack on a normal hit. Magic regenerates at the slowest speed

Shield..what about that? I'm just pointing it out

Why would I put them in Shield again after the first incident XD. That would just be stupid

Idk why you would, just pointing it out.

If that's you being on someone's side, i'd hate to see you in attack mode.

While I accept the GK club is about skill, it's also about verification of those skills. Like I said earlier, all he had to do was include 2 seconds of video showing his stats and all 'THIS' would have been avoided.

[Silversabeast]

False eh? Lets recap.

If that's you being on someone's side, i'd hate to see you in attack mode.

While I accept the GK club is about skill, it's also about verification of those skills. Like I said earlier, all he had to do was include 2 seconds of video showing his stats and all 'THIS' would have been avoided.

Wow, and you say I don't read people's posts...while you clearly didn't read mine.

I know what I said, you don't have to show me XD

As I said in my last reply to you, I was merely pointing out the flaws in his video so that we could have all the information necessary to fairly debate the issue.

[Pr!Gab]

Alright, glad you agree! It seems we have more and more people joining our side in the elemental defense issue.

I agreed that rules for rules sake is not beneficial for anyone. Regarding the elemental defense issue, as I said in my previous post, is resolved as it is currently forbidden and I think that is the easiest way to solve the issue. If a majority wants to change that, your suggestion is by far the best. Sorry if I didn't make it clear earlier.

Hey gab, can we get your vote on the S4G issue?

I have already sent a PM to =Silver= with my vote and justification.

[Silversabeast]

I agreed that rules for rules sake is not beneficial for anyone. Regarding the elemental defense issue, as I said in my previous post, is resolved as it is currently forbidden and I think that is the easiest way to solve the issue. If a majority wants to change that, your suggestion is by far the best. Sorry if I didn't make it clear earlier.

Oh...I gotcha. Well let me leave you with this. Is it the best solution just because it's the easiest?

I have already sent a PM to =Silver= with my vote and justification.

Ok, good

[=Silver=]

Well, my dear clubmates.
I have to say, that vote is finished before 3 days are out. Thanks everyone.

Soldier, unfortunately we can't qualify your last attempt. But no one doubt that you are skilled warrior and can requalify easily in no time. Looking forward.

[Silversabeast]

but silver, how many votes did you get? Is it a majority vote, or is it like the vote for agentblank where even one "no" vote would decide it?