Unreal Tournament 4

[Sly.]

Yeah, but just to underline it: The visuals don't have to be bad. Plenty of community mappers have proven this by creating a clean look keeping the gameplay intact so that there were no obstacles and you could easily spot players which was still very pretty and on current graphics standards. However, they should definitely focus more on the gameplay aspect rather than graphics, I would love to see an improved UT3 gameplay. The idea of mixing UT2004 and UT99 gameplay to create a mix that appeals to most players, was quite interesting, but something went wrong in the realization, I think they just messed up the gravity feeling and walking speed. You felt like a moving bag of bricks when you were jumping and dodging and your walking speed made it appear even slower, a higher walking speed and the dodging system of UT is where the fun's at! The faster, the better (personal opinion).

[Wolf]

Would absolutely love to see a new Unreal Tournament (4), the III/3 (2007) didn't go to well for us, and is still haunted with some issues which is quite sad (did they get around to fix the cdkey bug?), even if the UT3 (2007) is a real fun game to play.

[Fartuess]

@Sly
Yup graphics are simple but good. And that's what i meant. Lighting, textures, shaders should look good, but we don't need supercomplicated meshes with a lot of scuplted detail which took two weeks for artist to make. Bonescraper is very simple but looks great. Some original maps are overloaded with meshes which make reading shapes of rooms harder.

About the gameplay mechanics of UT3. There are people considering them as best of the series.

[Henrik]

There is no Unreal Tournament 4 (yet). You mean Unreal Engine 4. Also, hi spambot.

[Dy1ngs0ul]

There is no Unreal Tournament 4 (yet).

I don't think Epic will make another Unreal Tournament, another Unreal maybe, but not Tournament, we all know how Unreal Tournament 3 turned out, it no longer felt like a tournament anymore.
So if there was going to be a UT4, it will never be like the originals like UT99 or UT2004, gameplay mechanics have changed since UT3.

[chonglee]

a higher walking speed and the dodging system of UT is where the fun's at! The faster, the better (personal opinion).

Disagree, what UT truely needs, is the possibility to slow down (slower than normal running speed) and speed up (to a pretty high speed, but not overkill) and the shift between fast and slow should be smooth. And more advanced jump tricks. Don't worry about the learning curve here and don't nerf it on PC (they can do it on console coz using joystick to play UT has always been a JOKE, although I have a PS3 version but honestly I don't like it).

[Nono]

Cliff should stop teasing everyone with it, it's not as though everyone who likes Unreal is a young Gears fan. Most have been around since UT99, so do the math.

If it does go ahead, they need to aim it squarely at the competitive players and not so much the casuals imho, because lack of depth or shallow gameplay could only hurt longivity. Whereas, having a strong competitive community that love the game, the game will likely get big quick on the back of those gamers' eulogizing about it on gaming forums?

[chonglee]

A game for competitive gameplay does not mean deeper gameplay guarranteed, neither the fun part.

[Fartuess]

well, but creating good competitive multiplayer games requires creating well designed gameplay mechanics. "Stanadard" games doesn't need that to be playable, so some devs aren't spending enough effort on designing it.

[chonglee]

To be great, standard multiplayer shooters still needs gameplay depth and lots of skill/strategy possibilities, and basic balance, plus cool design style and atmosphere, and fun. These things are naturally being required, no matter if it's a competitive game or not.
The difference between competitive (here I mean truely competitive oriented) and general pvp (multiplayer), is competitive gameplay tends to ask for more BALANCE, BALANCE, and BALANCE. Even a little bit of glitch won't be allowed. Meanwhile general pvp cares about people play together and have fun, all about something cool and brilliant, all about plenty of elements for players to talk about even though some of them are obviously overkill sometimes. The gameplay features don't have to be presice and super balanced like rocket science. Not a lot players want to be "Pro". Yup you can say the general players are lack of skills compared to those "Pro" guys, so what.

And don't forget Epic always gives us MOD tools which is pretty much the best choice for someone want to stick to promode. IMO MODs like CPMA are 100x better than the original game.
But one thing I have to say is, as a fast-paced FPS, PC version of UT should always be designed exclusively based on PC! Don't let console philosophy interfere with it (and vice versa). That's where many problems of UT3 actually came from.

[Fartuess]

Well... Bulletstorm doesn't have any balance. Even weapons aren't blanced. Some of them are obviously better than others.

[Sourpuss]

They need to figure out a way to replicate the feel and gameplay from UT99. The early 2000s, back when UT99 was popular, was just an amazing time to be a gamer.

[darksin]

No interest in Bulletstorm style, i love to play Unreal 1, UT2k3/4, UT3, massive mods and maps coming, the mod community is really big now. Hope the future UT make big change, but still mod friendly, better editor for modders base, more game mode,

Offficially support over shoulder angle view like Action cam mod did if possible. It's a great mod platform for a long time, we really enjoy this...


Also UE4 Unreal 3 is good if Epic want to bring this title back in future, bring back the astounding feelings when we first play Unreal 1 in 1998, make some Epic story like Gears, and a good campaign, some RPG features included etc, massive maps to explore...

[xi0s]

My big hope if Epic ever decides to make UT4 is that they give the game the long private testing it deserves, reaching out to the veteran community and helping give it that polish it needs to really hit a home run.

[StrangeMinion]

My biggest issue with UT3 upon playing (apart from the campaign) was the lack of multiplayer modes, both classic and otherwise. The game only had five modes of play, seven if you got the Titan Pack. Most of the reason why the franchise was popular was because the games had so many original multiplayer modes. From the standard Deathmatch/TDM, to objective-based modes like CTF, Onslaught, Bombing Run, and Assault. UT2K4 even had Invasion mode! (Which, btw, I spent hours of my life playing with my friends.)

I don't know about you, but if you ask me, Unreal Tournament III failed mainly because of the lack of variety. If Epic releases another Unreal Tournament game, lets hope they remember why the franchise became popular.

[darksin]

i don't mind if more or less mode added in, but i think UT4 should not be some old UT clone, but improve so much more and totally new, make big progress, and bring some huge revolution, just like Capcom bring Resident Evil 4, and Epic bring Gears of War series, change the game industry and leading the way...

Also the future UT should be more mod friendly, that's the key feature all the time. The Community Bonus Pack is always great, and those custom maps, models and mods, etc. Keeping the game content fresh by community, not DLC all the way...

[Fartuess]

For me UT4 can have only DM, TDM, BTA and CTF. Other gametypes are fun but they aren't core part of this game.

[chonglee]

Yup, they are not "core" gamemodes, but other than DM/TDM/CTF, we need a few other modes coz UT is not a game only designed for hardcore players who obviously can't save this title by making it popular enough again.

But right now I just want a Unreal 3 or Unreal RPG.

[darksin]

Epic always bring sth. new and fun, not like some other enigne company, FPS all the way no change...

i think the weapon should make big change as well, not looks like plastic toys, but very powerful, more variety, and not a copy feeling of before. More new design...

DM, TDM are OK, actually some type similar to Onslaught, War must added in as well, UT2k4 is the best.
No interest in CTF,DOM,Balls. Assault and Invasion are good, If also sth. new, like big battlefiled maps that's better.,
like Planetside....to show the full enigne 4 power..

i think Unreal engine 4 UT4 will be too powerful, not just focus on DM maps fight on foot, yes they always have no doubt,
but other bigger maps and bigger wars will come as well, like Battlefield and COD mixture, both mode added in. Even some official Zombie Mod also good if possible.

Make it as a big Epic Unreal engine 4 flagship platform.Just like Elder Scroll, not just a RPG, but huge custom content mod community support platform. Can last for a long time....
Bring the new engine mod tools to a new level...and make sth, Unreal contest continue...

[Fartuess]

Well... I could say that Warfare gametype killed UT3. Actually i'm 100% aganist vehicles in UT. Movement and speed of vehicles is very weak comparing to capabilities you have when play it in normal fashion.

And to be honest... next UT should be niche game without overwhelming budget. Most of people will just buy another call of duty eventually battlefield if they are a little bit more demanding. Even if somebody of them would buy UT he will probably stop playing it after week. It won't create strong community, so i'm not sure that rejecting core players by simplification of the game/moving attention of designers away from the old fashioned gametypes. Imao next UT should be simple game designed for esport and distributed in way which will help it. Creating new UT for income from sales simply won't work and Epic won't do it beacuse it is actually the last thing which would give them money. Jazz3 in 2.5D would generate more money.

[Infra`]

Well... I could say that Warfare gametype killed UT3. Actually i'm 100% aganist vehicles in UT. Movement and speed of vehicles is very weak comparing to capabilities you have when play it in normal fashion.

Warfare didn't kill UT3, narrow minded people such as yourself are largely responsible for killing UT3. The "elite duelers" or "veterans" tried UT3 and didn't like the movement, gameplay, vehicles, <insert complaint here> and consequently quit the game and went back to 2k4 or ut99. The reason we haven't seen a new UT yet is because the vast majority of hardcore veterans are too stuck on their current game and are unwilling to expand their horizon and enjoy a game with slightly different mechanics. Compared to dm, warfare does indeed require less skill in terms of fragging which if anything, helped the longevity of UT3 because it is a game type new players feel comfortable playing. UT4 is not going to be tailored 100% towards any one community; ut99 and 2k4 are very different. The only way to have a successful community in the future is for both sides to compromise and be more accepting of anything outside of their own "core" viewpoint.

[Fartuess]

after all patches UT3 is considered by some people to have the best core gameplay. Anyway. For me UT4 should be very simmiliar to Quake Live. Free game (to get big community) with basic gametypes and players divided into smaller leagues (to prevent pros killing newbies) and the best move would be making UT4 work on UE3 flash and not requiring registration to play. Then it could get community in simmiliar manner like UT and Quake did. Giving them possibility to play it anywhere and introduce anyone to game without any problems or playing it with other students on university/college like i and couple of friends are doing with Quake 3 . UT won't be best selling game anymore but it still can be great esport platform.

[Sourpuss]

Warfare didn't kill UT3, narrow minded people such as yourself are largely responsible for killing UT3. The "elite duelers" or "veterans" tried UT3 and didn't like the movement, gameplay, vehicles, <insert complaint here> and consequently quit the game and went back to 2k4 or ut99.

I agree that Warfare didn't kill UT3. But I disagree with you that the blame for UT3's failure is on former UT fans. Do they deserve the blame if they didn't like the UT3 package? Do you remember the state UT3 was in upon release? (You couldn't even add Favorites servers to the server browser!!!) Have you noticed that UT3 has a horrifically consolized user interface and server browser?

Believe it or not, many members of the UT99 CTF pro community liked the game play of the UT3 Beta Demo. They didn't think it was as good as UT99, but they thought it was serviceable and had planned to migrate to UT3. It was assumed that the user interface and server browser were temporary and would be fixed. Then they discovered that Final Release = Beta Demo, and completely lost interest. UT3 was a huge insult to UT fans. The basic game play of UT3 is good, but everything else that surrounds it is garbage and far below standards set by prior UTs. It's like replacing last year's souped-up Lexus sedan with a new stripped down Kia or Yugo.

[Sourpuss]

Gametypes for UT4 should be:

Deathmatch/TDM, CTF, Domination (UT99 style), Assault, Onslaught, Bombing Run, and Invasion.

[darksin]

War never kill UT, i don't think UT4 will be a Quake live game...
UT3 is good, although prefer UT2k4 more, but UT3 give more sci fi feelings, and not plastic weapon toys, also UT3 still mod and custom maps friendly,

To mod players, UT3 did really a great job...Like make sth. Unreal the Haunted mod, and those total conversion mod,
that's the key feature it can last for a long time...Also community bonus pack,etc...

Titan mode should return, and sth. like a battlefield mode, it can be a dom, assalut, onslaught mixture and improve a lot, no balls and blow core etc like Warfare, but fight in different goals ,like control military base etc,similar concept...

Invasion mode can be a big change as well, maybe zombies and new more kinds of monsters officially added in, will be very popular. Epic is very good at making monsters, if some similar models to Gears of War or Resident Evil, will be so much better.

[StrangeMinion]

Gametypes for UT4 should be:

Deathmatch/TDM, CTF, Domination (UT99 style), Assault, Onslaught, Bombing Run, and Invasion.

I actually thought Warfare was better than Onslaught. Still, I agree that this list of modes should be included in UT4 if it happens.
However, there should be some other game modes as well. Greed was a pretty nice gametype, and I believe Vehicle CTF is UT3's most popular game mode. I agree that they should bring back most of the older game modes, but they should add something new as well.

[Fartuess]

Bombing run, greed? WTF? Anybody even play it on MP? I would rather add BTA and Duel which are probably ones of most important gametypes for core players.

@Darksin
IMAO UT live is the only option of creating new UT which won't be failure. Lets be honest. This game won't gain enought players if it's not going to be f2p. New UT should collect as many players as it can. If it will be sold in traditional way then community of game will be built by old UT veterans who would want to switch game - and this will divide UT scene even more and won't earn much money. This isn't gears, halo, CoD or Battlefield, UT is now niche game and it can't get many players using traditional methods.

[EthanJoushu]

UT is nothing without bot and editor mod support.

[Henrik]

nobody ever played Bombing Run.

Here is my assessment:

DM/TDM
Elimination - resembling TAM
ONS but improved (not warfare)
Assault / Vehicle Assault similar to UT2004 but more powerful Kismet options for varied goals and gameplay styles.

Removed: CTF - This will be controversial, but it is a dated gametype and new things need to be done. Assault, in my vision of how it should be could include goals like "capture enemy's datacards" - they are randomly placed in the enemy base and you have to return them all. You could also have similar gameplay to Greed, BR, Titans, or racemaps, or whatever people want in this new "open" gametype. This is where gameplay is going naturally thanks to Kismet and even more with Kismet2. It adds unpredictability and replay value back to the game.

IMO These 4 gametypes keep it simple and players focused into larger groups, making it less like you have a dead game right off the bat. This is what the game needs to progress and survive. There is no reason to keep putting out UT's if you just do the same thing with new graphics.

[darkelf]

Agree, no interest in CTF, UT4 must add some more bigger maps game mode, as UE4 can handle much bigger things...

Maybe change Onslaught Warfare to conquest mode, etc... And more powerful editor no doubt, custom maps and mods friendly as always,

[maptoboggan]

Big Map, with a 50 vs 50 Death Match or a 200 Player free for all please.

[maptoboggan]

200 Player Free for all please.

[Sourpuss]

Titan mode should return, and sth.

The Titan mod was probably one of the worst things to happen to UT since Epic got in bed with Midway.

[Sourpuss]

nobody ever played Bombing Run.

Bombing Run was a good idea, but it didn't work out very well in UT 2004 because of the floaty-dodgey movement which made it a game of hitscan. It would have been a hit in the original UT99.

Removed: CTF

CTF was the most popular game type for UT99, and people still play it in PUG matches to this day! Why the heck would you want to get rid of your franchise game-type? It is NOT dated in the same way that football is not dated. What people who didn't play UT99 don't realize is that UT99 was not merely a disposable campaign type of game, but an actual cybersport, especially the CTF. UT99 CTF is still awesome fun even after all these years.

IMO These 4 gametypes keep it simple and players focused into larger groups, making it less like you have a dead game right off the bat.

The problem with the later games--UT 2004 and UT3--was not that they had too many game types--but that players rejected the games outright for various reasons. UT 2004--too floaty dodgey (good for Onslaught and Invasion RPG and not much else). UT3 was a consolized abomination that insulted UT players.

Instead of hoping to concentrate a small group of players into a few game types, it would be better to produce a spectacular, polished product that would attract millions of players, allowing for large numbers of players in all game types.

The heavy lifting in producing a UT4 would be in the area of user interface, online multiplayer features (friends lists, matchmaking, etc.), and making some new maps. Figuring out the chemistry and game-types is already done--just copy the UT99 game play and then include an option for UT 2004 style for Onslaught.

[medowiemauler]

Dont know.

[utzBluesman]

For a fair return of an UT of our dreams we need 2 things first: A new Unreal SP with co-op, and it must have Cliff's mind behind it.

I can't see it happening.

[Henrik]

The only people who rejected UT2004 were super hardcore UT fanboys who couldn't appreciate the vehicular gametypes or change in movement. The rest of us adapted and like UT2004 better overall these days. Anyway Sourpuss you can argue CTF is played to this day but when it comes down to it, it's nothing that will really attract new players or make the franchise feel fresh. And these players that still play the old CTF imo will just whine that CTF in the next title isn't exactly the same or better in some arbitrary way, when nobody even knows what they want from something new and yet "same enough". Unless we get something where it is hard to find a direct point of comparison we won't tend to just enjoy it for what it is.

[Fartuess]

I don't like vehicular gametypes but i love UT2k4. It's movement is different than UT'99 but it's great in it's own way. While playing ONS you are using slow and boring vehicles and if walking by foot you can't do much because space on ONS levels is huge and empty - opposite of what helps classic way of playing UT.

[Sourpuss]

The only people who rejected UT2004 were super hardcore UT fanboys who couldn't appreciate the vehicular gametypes or change in movement. The rest of us adapted and like UT2004 better overall these days. Anyway Sourpuss you can argue CTF is played to this day but when it comes down to it, it's nothing that will really attract new players or make the franchise feel fresh. And these players that still play the old CTF imo will just whine that CTF in the next title isn't exactly the same or better in some arbitrary way, when nobody even knows what they want from something new and yet "same enough". Unless we get something where it is hard to find a direct point of comparison we won't tend to just enjoy it for what it is.

Henrik, is that the reason why UT 2004 had only a fraction of the clan match activity for CTF that UT99 did? Is that the reason why UT99 CTF pug matches were going strong while UT 2004 didn't have much of a pug match scene?

I like UT 2004 and I think it's a great game--for Onslaught, Invasion, and Assault. However, UT 2004 just wasn't as good for on-foot CTF unless you had aimbot-like aim and thus wouldn't mind the floaty-dodgeyness. As far as I know the basic UT 2004 gameplay for CTF was the same as it was in UT 2003, which was very soundly rejected.

[Henrik]

Well, actually you're just confirming my point :P Why should they bring CTF back if that is by and large going to be the attitude from the people who want it back so much anyway?