Scaleform UI to be included with UDK! (UPDATED)

[Brendan Iribe]

The latest version of Scaleform GFx 3.2 supports most Flash 8 AS2 functionality. The Unreal docs will outline all the details soon.

Later this year (Q4 2010), Scaleform GFx 4.0 will be officially released with initial Flash 10 AS3 support. It will have its limitations in terms of the latest Flash 10 and AS3 features, but each new release will continue to be more complete, similar to the way GFx v1.0 - v3.2 continued to support more Flash 8 AS2.

Scaleform will have alpha and beta versions of GFx 4.0 (AS3) available earlier, but it's Epic's decision on when and which version to integrate into UE3 and UDK. We normally recommend only using beta or final versions for shipping product.

Scaleform provides a separate integration compatible with UE3 source SDK (not UDK, because it's binary only), which is updated monthly to be compatible to the latest Scaleform GFx beta and final releases. The Scaleform integration supports additional components that are optional and not required for console game developers, but that some may be interested in. Again, it will be outlined in the Unreal docs soon.

So for now, everyone can use the latest Flash CS3, CS4, or CS5 tools to publish to Flash 8 AS2 format to create stunning front end menus, high performance HUDs, even animated Flash textures on 3D surfaces.
Video: https://developer.scaleform.com/gdc?lang=en&v=hud

Scaleform has also added 3Di (3D interface) rendering, which allows you to tilt and rotate any element in 3D using a simple set of ActionScript extensions. The current 3Di rendering via ActionScript is the same as Flash 10's native 3D, which will be supported in GFx 4.0.
Video: https://developer.scaleform.com/gdc?lang=en&v=3di

There's even a new Scaleform AMP performance tool that can be used to profile Flash content running inside your Unreal game. Please keep in mind the tool is new and limited in functionality (and may have an issue or two), but we're working hard to make it as useful and powerful as possible. We're eager to hear your feedback on how to make it even better.
Video: https://developer.scaleform.com/gdc?lang=en&v=amp

You can visit www.scaleform.com for more information and videos.

UE3 Source licensees and evaluators should register at www.scaleform.com/register to receive additional Flash/Scaleform support. We have many C++ and Flash experts on staff to help.

UDK developers will be supported through the UDN community.

We look forward to working with everyone!

-- Brendan
www.scaleform.com

[danimal']

Hawwwwwwwwwt. Really like/appreciate the vids, some of us aren't terribly familiar with the work flow for this, and it's a start in the right direction. When I saw the inventory floating in space in front of the character I nearly @#$@#'d my pants

[Mr Evil]

...Scaleform has also added 3Di (3D interface) rendering, which allows you to tilt and rotate any element in 3D using a simple set of ActionScript extensions...

Are those elements actually 3D, so that they look correct with 3D glasses or other 3D display? Non-3D HUD is a common complaint from users of such displays, and it would be worse if the HUD looked like it wasn't flat, but was displayed flat.

Hawwwwwwwwwt. Really like/appreciate the vids, some of us aren't terribly familiar with the work flow for this, and it's a start in the right direction. When I saw the inventory floating in space in front of the character I nearly @#$@#'d my pants

It looks really cool, but I hope people don't forget that it's usability first, prettiness second!

[Brendan Iribe]

Are those elements actually 3D, so that they look correct with 3D glasses or other 3D display? Non-3D HUD is a common complaint from users of such displays, and it would be worse if the HUD looked like it wasn't flat, but was displayed flat.

The 2D Flash elements are actually displayed in 3D (with full 3D transformations), so they can look correct in stereoscopic 3D. We're working closely with Epic and NVIDIA to ensure Scaleform 3Di supports stereo 3D glasses and displays. There will most likely be a bit tweaking and customization on the developers side, but nothing too difficult. The goal is for it to all just work right out-of-the-box as you'd expect and hope.

[danimal']

It looks really cool, but I hope people don't forget that it's usability first, prettiness second!

Usa-wha? Honestly, UI's matter so much for the professional appearance of a product, I think the inclusion of this (if used properly) adds a LOT to the potential "professionalism" achievable even by smaller teams with the UDK. Go Epic and go Scaleform, you rock.

[adityagameprogrmer]

@Danimal
+1 ^_^
@Brendan
Thanks for the info . The possibility of getting flash UI / games into the unreal engine is very exciting indeed. This is sure to Attract a large part of the flash community to unreal and Scaleform alike.

Am sure Epic will integrate GFx 4.0 (AS3) beta into UDK when it comes out they wouldn't want to miss out on the opportunity to enhance UDK and pull in more people to it.

[CreativeCoding]

Finally something my CS4 will do!

But, how will Actionscript and Unrealscript communicate?

Example:
A variable in kismet is 5.
Actionscript detects this and starts a level (or whatever else)

Or

Actionscript detects button press
Kismet starts a level!


Just a note too, if you guys are exporting your flash files into UDK just to convert to EXE, you best just upgrade to CS4. It will make a EXE file for you with your game.

[Blade[UG]]

Unfortunatly, there is no amount of polish that you can add to UT3's interface to make it useful, so even though they obviously re-wrote it, they used the original as a base, so it's really just polishing the proverbial.

As long as we can get data to display on screen in the new UI system without having to go through a bajillion hoops, I'm all for any kind of new system.

[TheFreeman]

This is an amazing thread, really made my day with this one!

So thanks go out to Epic and also to Scaleform for bringing us these tools! (Eventually)

[Ayalaskin]

Am excited about it, amazing.

[marcusmattingly]

I am also curious how Unrealscript and these AS2 Scaleform interfaces will interact. It sounds like right now UE3 and Scaleform interaction is at the binary level where you need a full license with source code. What's the plan here with the UDK I wonder?

[eAlex79]

On Scaleforms site they say script and kismet if I read and remember right, I don't know where that source license idea comes from..

[Blade[UG]]

I think that's probably talking about the "current state" of things, in which devs have already integrated Scaleform into the engine, but not talking about what's coming up with UDK.

[marcusmattingly]

@Blade, that's exactly what I meant. I meant the way Scaleform is used currently with UE3 (not UDK) is via the source code with a full license of UE3.

I was just wondering what they were planning for the interaction with the two (Scaleform and UDK) since UDK users do not have engine source code access.

I am definitely hoping for Unrealscript and kismet interaction.

[Nate Mitchell]

Hey everyone,

The Scaleform GFx - UnrealEngine integration allows developers to load, play and manipulate Flash content via UnrealScript and Kismet. GFx's Direct Access API, tightly integrated with UnrealScript, provides users a number of interfaces for interacting with Flash directly from their game, including:

• Creating, accessing, and mutating any Flash element (MovieClips, Objects, 2D/3D positions and transformations, display information, data arrays, etc...)
• Manipulating timeline animations using familiar GotoAndPlay/GotoAndStop functions
• Creating, attaching, and removing MovieClips from the Stage
• Invoking an ActionScript function from UnrealScript
• Invoking an UnrealScript function from ActionScript

General information about the integration can be found at scaleform.com: http://www.scaleform.com/products/partners_ue3.

All of this functionality will be available to UDK users with the help of Epic. Documentation and codes samples for GFx and the GFx - UnrealEngine3 integration will be made available to all UDK users in the near future.

If you're curious to learn about who else is using GFx, check out: http://www.scaleform.com/gamesusing


Cheers,

Nate
Scaleform Corporation

[Phopojijo]

Any word on which modules will be available for UDK developers?

Video, Clik, Lobby, IME, AMP, Audio?

[NikSha]

Flash 8 support for 3.5 and F10 for 4.0. So if we have Flash CS4 will be be able to use Flash 9 for UI? (I have yet to check Scaleform site.. the link was to Develop instead of scaleform).


EDIT: Err.. "So for now, everyone can use the latest Flash CS3, CS4, or CS5 "

But nothing about F9.. :P

[foad_udk]

Scaleform what date? UDK May ?

[marcusmattingly]

Hey everyone,

The Scaleform GFx - UnrealEngine integration allows developers to load, play and manipulate Flash content via UnrealScript and Kismet. GFx's Direct Access API, tightly integrated with UnrealScript, provides users a number of interfaces for interacting with Flash directly from their game, including:

• Creating, accessing, and mutating any Flash element (MovieClips, Objects, 2D/3D positions and transformations, display information, data arrays, etc...)
• Manipulating timeline animations using familiar GotoAndPlay/GotoAndStop functions
• Creating, attaching, and removing MovieClips from the Stage
• Invoking an ActionScript function from UnrealScript
• Invoking an UnrealScript function from ActionScript

General information about the integration can be found at scaleform.com: http://www.scaleform.com/products/partners_ue3.

All of this functionality will be available to UDK users with the help of Epic. Documentation and codes samples for GFx and the GFx - UnrealEngine3 integration will be made available to all UDK users in the near future.

If you're curious to learn about who else is using GFx, check out: http://www.scaleform.com/gamesusing


Cheers,

Nate
Scaleform Corporation

Two words - FREAKIN AWESOME

[Piranhi]

Flash 8 support for 3.5 and F10 for 4.0. So if we have Flash CS4 will be be able to use Flash 9 for UI? (I have yet to check Scaleform site.. the link was to Develop instead of scaleform).


EDIT: Err.. "So for now, everyone can use the latest Flash CS3, CS4, or CS5 "

But nothing about F9.. :P

There was no Flash 9, it went Flash 8, CS2, CS3, CS4, CS5.

You're probably thinking of Flashplayer 9. There is nothing different about the different Flash software versions apart from the tools available for you. The output options available include building for different versions of the flash player (that go upto 10) and different versions of Actionscript (2 and 3)

[StingReay]

... if their video package (Scaleform Video) is included... how will that play with BINK?

I'm wondering about this too. Scaleform Video is based on CRI Movie 2, which is a competitor to Bink owned by CRI MW. I would be fairly weird to have two different codecs in the same engine.

[Ayalaskin]

I love this tendency of making things for free to researching and non-commercial products. It trains people in the technology for free, the companies doesn't have to spend money in training programs, and it's product became more popular, and often sells more, since the users get a chance to start their own business with a top leading technolgies and only pay fees when they start to earning money .

[Prezadent]

Can this be used to create an ingame game, like Dooms Super Turkey Punch?

[IllpIll]

that's what's saying with the minigames.

[elmuerte]

Can this be used to create an ingame game, like Dooms Super Turkey Punch?

Of course, in fact various games have already used GFx to create mini games. As far as I know you can also render to a texture, thus really create the arcade cabinet as shown in Doom 3 instead of just showing an overlay with the mini game (as most games do).

[junkens]

well.. the formulation is a little bit off.
You would use flash to create games.
With scaleform you could implement them but a good thing is. The flash-dev community is booming since the last years(thanks to armorgames and some other flash-portal who are paying flash-devs good money for their games). So where is a chance that you just recruit a new uprising flash-dev and implement his/her games in the game.

[h3ndy]

how should people use the GFx if they own not even one Adobe product?
Will it be possible?

[junkens]

how should people use the GFx if they own not even one Adobe product?
Will it be possible?

what is that for a question. If you don't own flash..you can't use it. Canvas is still available so if you can't create it so you still can use the UI system which was used till now.

[elmuerte]

You don't need Adobe Flash, there are other tools available that will be able to create SWF files and allow you to compile ActionScript.
Of course most of them are not as "mature" as Adobe Flash.
But $700 for Adobe Flash Professional isn't that much.

See http://osflash.org/projects for an overview of various open source tools related to Flash.

[Blade[UG]]

Considering that the world at large is trying to kill off Flash (HTML 5, Apple, Microsoft, etc), I do question as to whether we'll see yet another complete re-write of the entire UI system in another year?

[Henrik]

I see it the opposite way. Many disagree strongly with Jobs anyway, and there are a ton of animators/designers who love the Flash app itself. It does many things easier than some other programs do. So even if Flash's use on the web deteriorated (which I don't really see happening to the degree these folks are trying to imply), Scaleform and its use in a game engine is not dependent on that at all. Are Adobe going to suddenly just kill off Flash because Apple is trying to say "HTML5 blah blah blah open technology blah blah".. pfft of course not, they will just push back and Scaleform is a significant thing to push with. Having Flash become the leading platform for creating UIs on the world's biggest games and engines is only going to make it even more ubiquitous and strengthen Adobe's position.

[elmuerte]

Going to HTML5+JavaScript from Flash is quite unrelated to the usage of Flash in GFx.

[Henrik]

That was my point as well:

So even if Flash's use on the web deteriorated (which I don't really see happening to the degree these folks are trying to imply), Scaleform and its use in a game engine is not dependent on that at all.

[Blade[UG]]

Sure, sure, it's not really related, in that it's an entirely different product, for different usage, just using the language. Sure, it's definitely going to be an improvement over the prior unreal engine UI systems, but I can't help but wonder if it's just going to be another subsystem that eventually gets tossed out, like the last 3 UIs..

[Hboybowen]

there is always the magic word...

[Henrik]

Technology improves. You have to keep up with it. Last 3 UI's? The main differences were between UE3 and UE2, Overall it stayed relatively steady over the course of what.. 10 years? The biggest change I think was UIScenes and that whole datastore system.. was very difficult for most people to figure out, especially given the lack of documentation. It was nothing familiar to anyone really. But I guess it's good that they tried something new. 10 years is a long time to stick to one system in the tech world. But Flash has done basically just that, because it is good.

Where could they theoretically go from here? Backwards only if they were to opt for something else - it would most certainly be more proprietary, unknown, and the number of skilled UI designers would drop to nearly nil. Have a hard time seeing it happening.

[Blade[UG]]

I would say that Flash has stuck around because it was the only way to do a lot of things on the web for quite some time, aside from Java, which had it's fair share of problems to begin with.. Personally, I'd much rather see something that is well integrated with Unrealscript, rather than jamming a new interface with a new language into it. But, that's just me. The UI system completely changed from UE1 to UE2 to UE3, and now a complete change again. Anyway, I expect we'll be good with this one for at least a year, so that's a good thing.

[ali rafaty]

yes.as westclif say.can we have trial version to make ui?

[MonsOlympus]

Yeah Blade[UG]'s got a point, most people leave out the little UE2->UE2.5 UI "upgrade" which wasnt so much of an upgrade but a rewrite of the older stuff that ran along side. It was a bigger mess then DataStores. The biggest problem DataStores have had is the lack of support from the commandlets, UPL, INI, INT n all that in 2kx could export those files from the default properties where in UE3 especially UT3 in the early days it was bugged to the ****house.

UIScenes, now Im finally getting into it and know enough about it isnt that bad. Its not exactly good either, I think half the problem is interaction/HUD/Canvas/UIScene are all interrelated but are different classes with different motives. Basically, theres already 2 or 3 systems all over the top of each other and they dont exactly all work together very well. The major issue I have with UIScenes has always been with automatically generating widgets based on variable types, this flash stuff "might" change that then again its always a possibility that it wont.

In saying that, Id like the engine to go oh he wants this variable (which is a boolean) on the UI, yeah sweet lets make it easier (so he doesnt have to define it 2, 3 times) and just whack some kind of UI connector (like tooltip meta data) there for "friendly" checkbox/spinner/etc display.

Ideally for a UI in a game, Id like my designers to be able to do their jobs entirely independent of programmers, I dont think that takes flash it does take a good set of widgets (which are in great demand, but hey adobe's interfaces rock (sorry apple ur not as brilliant as you think you are)) to build upon. As a designer, Id like to write as little code for UI's as possible, same goes for being a programmer. Its not that difficult, we use code generation all the time on the internet, for mobile display, removal of graphics, etc layout and functionality can be separated.

Nothing against scaleform, I have nothing against this move by Epic, its their choice. I dont think it was required though, it might take weight off Epic's shoulders and allow them to put development time where its needed most instead of into the UI but I dont think a great system was out of Epic's reach. While their UI systems always seem to be obsoleted all they needed was for one to be given a chance long enough, lets use flash as an example or java. Neither of those took 1 year or even 2, they took a long time to become a standard, using scaleform is going to help but Epic had the ability to pull off something that is in uscript better then using actionscript. The xml functionality of UE3 is still getting there isnt it?

Anyways just a few thoughts on the matter. All I see online is this big battle between this n that, yet very few people offering webapp/app creation IDE's deliver a decent set of widgets by default, they are all buggy, or set to standards you may not want to use. Im all for cohesive application interfaces, Im also for being able to customize my experience, advancements in clientside plugins such as greasemonkey or stylish... well I could go on all day. Basically, politics BLEH!

[elmuerte]

10 years is a long time to stick to one system in the tech world.

Not really. Most technologies used today are at least 10 years old. Often technology isn't considered usable until it hasn't reached the age of 5.

The UI system completely changed from UE1 to UE2 to UE3, and now a complete change again. Anyway, I expect we'll be good with this one for at least a year, so that's a good thing.

That's because user interfaces are very difficult to do right. As far as I know nobody has ever managed to create a proper user interface.

If you give me six screens created by the hand of the most experienced of UI designers, I will find something in them which will hang him.