How do you reduce the overwhelming brown look in UDK?

[XFunc_CaRteR]

UDK (and Gears and all that) have that terrible oversaturation of brown. How do you get rid of that, adjusting it back to a more balanced, wider-range colour saturation?

[darthviper107]

Games in the Unreal engine by default aren't like that, it's an aesthetic choice made by the game designers. If you wish to mess with the Gears of War game to change it you can probably change some post processing for color saturation and levels.

[XFunc_CaRteR]

Games in the Unreal engine by default aren't like that, it's an aesthetic choice made by the game designers. If you wish to mess with the Gears of War game to change it you can probably change some post processing for color saturation and levels.

Do you know how to do this in UDK? Where are these settings?

I remember when I played Gears 1, I shut off a ton of post-processing effects and it removed a lot of that brown, and made it look a lot better.

[rahatropa]

In Unreal Editor you can find the postprocess settings, which allow color-correction/manipulation, in the World Properties.

[XFunc_CaRteR]

In Unreal Editor you can find the postprocess settings, which allow color-correction/manipulation, in the World Properties.

It's done on a level-by-level basis?

Can you set it up so the entire game you're making in UDK is colour corrected?

[ambershee]

No, you can't.

If you really want to avoid that 'look', you'll need to use assets which are not geared towards it, rather than the stock ones.

[XFunc_CaRteR]

I see.


...................

[Phopojijo]

You really should be using your own assets anyway... for the most part.

[XFunc_CaRteR]

You really should be using your own assets anyway... for the most part.

The question wasn't about using assets - it was about the brown appearance. We are assessing what engine to use, and that "Unreal brown look" was an issue.

[XFunc_CaRteR]

On the other hand for a royalty of 25 freakin' percent, you'd think any developer would be justified to use as much available IP as possible from the UDK - not just the code IP but content IP as well. It's all included in the licence (except for skeletal meshes).

[Solid Snake]

The question wasn't about using assets - it was about the brown appearance. We are assessing what engine to use, and that "Unreal brown look" was an issue.

Doesn't look over saturated brown to me.

[XFunc_CaRteR]

Doesn't look over saturated brown to me.

Are you seriously implying that Unreal games don't have a reputation for looking brown?

[darthviper107]

I would say that

A realistic look for the world is kinda brown (dirty) and many games reflect that, it's not anything specific about the game engine, many games on other engines are the same way.

But for instance, the Mass Effect games which are on the UE are very colorful and are probably more blue than brown.

[schenksmill]

On the other hand for a royalty of 25 freakin' percent, you'd think any developer would be justified to use as much available IP as possible from the UDK - not just the code IP but content IP as well. It's all included in the licence (except for skeletal meshes).

I've seen you harp on this in more than one thread. Even if you were getting the full engine license, there is a significant chance that the terms of the contract would have them carrying some percentage of your revenue cut. The full engine license also does not come with any assets. If you're so worried about the money they're taking, then you really need to explore other options.

Realistically, you're talking about needing to sell several million dollars worth of your game before you would approach the costs of a retail license anyway. Even if you were approaching that, it would benefit your company greatly to negotiate the licensing terms as you approached that amount.

Now, as for the topic at hand. The "Unreal brown" look is both a side effect of the per-level post processing being used, as well as the assets being created for the levels. This is not inherently the fault of the engine, but rather, the art direction taken by the respective games. There is no reason that you would need to follow this, and honestly, it would be up to your artists and art director to come up with the color palette that would benefit your design the most, then go with that. If this is not a situation that you are currently in, then you need to start investing some time in figuring out that direction for yourself, and looking around for free/for-pay stock assets that you can import yourself.

[KazeoHin]

take a look at the maps made in my signature. Is the 'brown effect' present? its all about art-direction and aesthetic choices.

[Blade[UG]]

Ut3 had a dismal brown looking art scheme, from what I remember. UT04 didn't. Unreal 1 didn't. I've never played any other Epic produced games. I've played a lot of Unreal Engine games, I don't recall much in the way of over-brown.

Are you seriously implying that Unreal games don't have a reputation for looking brown?

and no, he wasn't. You asked how to reduce the overwhelming brown look, and the answer, which he was demonstrating, is by making art that doesn't look like the UT3 art.

[Solid Snake]

Are you seriously implying that Unreal games don't have a reputation for looking brown?

Well the game in that screenshot is Dungeon Defenders which is using UDK. Does it look over saturated brown to you? It doesn't to me.

At the end of the day, the actual implementation is what matters. If I decide to make a brown texture with over saturated post processing, is that the fault of the engine or the developer?

[ambershee]

The question wasn't about using assets - it was about the brown appearance. We are assessing what engine to use, and that "Unreal brown look" was an issue.

The 'Unreal brown look' is a result of the assets. It's entirely possible to avoid it by using non Unreal meshes and textures.

As for the 25% royalty issue, well that's not as heavy handed as the full engine license fee, unless you're expecting a hefty net royalty. Either way, it's hardly very professional to be using someone elses assets in your own projects either.

[Piranhi]

It sounds to me that you feel like you're being forced to use the Unreal3 engine, XFunc, every thread you're trying to hammer it down and nitpick bad things about it.

[Mr Evil]

Are you seriously implying that Unreal games don't have a reputation for looking brown?

There is nothing inherently brown about the Unreal Engine. In fact, when Unreal was originally released, it was so colourful it was accused of having "disco lighting".

[XFunc_CaRteR]

Okay, fine. But people I was talking to were concerned.

[NothAU]

They have no reason to be.
It's simply just part of what the designer intended the look to be.

You could have your entire game look hot pink and it'd work just the same... but ugly :P

[XFunc_CaRteR]

It sounds to me that you feel like you're being forced to use the Unreal3 engine, XFunc, every thread you're trying to hammer it down and nitpick bad things about it.

I nitpick because I want to use it and I want it to get better. If I didn't want to use UDK I wouldn't even be here.

Also, I don't mind the fee. I just don't like the attitude of some developers here that seems to be we all owe Epic something, when in reality we are Epic's customer and, if we are going to be paying Epic, Epic needs to provide the best product possible for us. In normal business, the business needs to serve the customer, not the other way around. So that means listening to what the customer needs and is asking for rather than expecting the customer to bend to what is being offered.

Here are some other things: GUI implementation of non-FPS cameras. (Unless that's been implemented already.) Visual scripting (Kismet) at a level that can provide native game functionality (as opposed to being isolated to providing only in-mission functionality). What would be awesome is RTS- and RPG-style frameworks that can be turned on and off easily. RTS and RPG are standard formats of games.

[ambershee]

I think you may be slightly overestimating your importance as a consumer. As a consumer, you purchase (either with royalties or the seated license) the rights to use the software 'as is' - that's as far as it goes. It's the big money customers that the software is actually catered for, and in Epic's business that is who the Unreal engine serves. You are not their normal business customer, and your needs are not as important.

If there were any demand for such a feature from licensees, then things might be different, however their needs tend to focus on more pressing concerns.

I'm not sure what a 'GUI implementation of non-FPS cameras' is, but camera logic can be handled very easily in either a discreet camera class or within the class of the object which has the camera. There's always a bit of maths behind it, so I'm not sure what purpose a 'GUI implementation' could actually serve?

Given that you're not actually contracted to anything until you pay for it with UDK, you're neither until you have a product.

[Aldaron07]

Also, I don't mind the fee. I just don't like the attitude of some developers that seems to be they owe Epic something, when in reality they are Epic's customer and Epic owes them to provide the best product possible. In normal business, the business needs to serve the customer, not the other way around. So that means listening to what the customer needs and is asking for rather than expecting the customer to bend to what is being offered.

We all want the UDK to get better, but the reality of it is they're not obligated to deliver the best product. If they were charging to download and install the UDK (like other engines, Torque or Unity for example) then it would be in their best interests to make it the best of the best, but they're not. We are not Epic's customers. They aren't making money from us. They're making money from the very few commercial developers that have used the SDK, which is probably still not enough to break even with how much has been spent to update and release the UDK these past six months.

At best it's a side project, a bone thrown to the indie community to sink their teeth into. Chances are in the long-term they're going to lose money on it, if they are not already. They have more important things to donate resources to and, as a company that ultimately wants to make a profit, that's their business. We get a free SDK out of the deal, be happy we get something at all.

[XFunc_CaRteR]

I think you may be slightly overestimating your importance as a consumer.

Nevertheless, I am the consumer (and so are you). And anyone with good customer service skills will serve all their customers attentively. The attitude that "you aren't important because you don't have a lot of money" is a very very bad attitude to have.

[NothAU]

Anyone with half a brain knows that those in customer service absolutely despise people (like you) who overstep their bounds and think that because they're the customer, they're right.

Little tip: The customer is not always right.

[Solid Snake]

Here are some other things: GUI implementation of non-FPS cameras. (Unless that's been implemented already.) Visual scripting (Kismet) at a level that can provide native game functionality (as opposed to being isolated to providing only in-mission functionality). What would be awesome is RTS- and RPG-style frameworks that can be turned on and off easily. RTS and RPG are standard formats of games.

Sorry what? This is silly to be expected.

The goals of Kismet is not to replace Unrealscript. It was designed to make it easier for level designers to create some in level trigger and action thing. You could do this in Unreal Engine 1 and Unreal Engine 2 but it required a lot of fussing about which made it unusable. People are trying to use something that it wasn't designed for, and that's why they run into problems.

You're asking for two entire game frame works to be provided 100% for free? Why not ask them for an MMORPG package, a flight simulator package, a car driving package and a 2D platform package as well? What are exactly expecting from UDK? It sounds like you're expecting far too much from it, or you're just frustrated that you can't make Unreal Engine do what you want.

A reality check here, you're asking for two very large frameworks to be created for free. You're asking for two very large frameworks to be maintained for free. You're asking for two very large frameworks to be created and maintained by Epic who wouldn't really even use it.

[Piranhi]

.
The goals of Kismet is not to replace Unrealscript. It was designed to make it easier for level designers to create some in level trigger and action thing. You could do this in Unreal Engine 1 and Unreal Engine 2 but it required a lot of fussing about which made it unusable. People are trying to use something that it wasn't designed for, and that's why they run into problems.

Snake is right here, the primary reason behind the development of Kismet (from what I have gathered from the PPT's from Epic) was to create a system for level designers that let them quickly mock up certain scenarios or mechanics which could then be tested to see if they worked or not. This enabled developers to avoid wasting time programming said event, only to find that the idea didn't work in the first place. This also gives level designers a lot more creativity and it can be expanded upon by programmers even further in house to give more creative freedom to designers by programming extra expressions/nodes etc.

[ThePriest909]

Are you seriously implying that Unreal games don't have a reputation for looking brown?

If a game or two look "brown" or any other color, that's up to game's developer tastes and not something to do with a game-engine...

Buy a full UE3 license and only then, you can be considered a "customer"...
What you've been given with UDK for free, was a distant dream for many experienced indie developers for more than 15 years... Put your ego back and think about that for while and you'll realise that what Epic currently do with UDK, should only be respected not judged.

[Angel_Mapper]

Careful. The "Make Awesome Game Button" is on the verge of replacing MMO's as being the new White Viewports.

[ambershee]

You missed 'localised gravity'

[Angel_Mapper]

That's already replaced "I can't select anything in the 3D viewport - Turn off antialiasing" at the #2 spot.

[Blade[UG]]

xfunc is upset because Unity has a little Camera widget thingee, that you drag into your level, attach to something, and then you can adjust a few settings to customise it. In Unity, your entire game is equivalent to a single level in Unreal, which is why it has "File->New Game", because you start a new level with nothing in it, and it's a new game.

[TheAgent]

thats whack ""File->New Game"" i wouldnt want it that easy xD or simple.

[Makaze]

Also, I don't mind the fee. I just don't like the attitude of some developers here that seems to be we all owe Epic something, when in reality we are Epic's customer and, if we are going to be paying Epic, Epic needs to provide the best product possible for us

Actually we owe Epic a great deal. They've provided to us free of charge a game engine and tool set that normally cost around half a million dollars. I'd also like to point out that you are not a customer. You're currently a consumer but since you haven't payed them a dime, and considering your attitude and skill level are never likely to, you're definitely not a customer.

Visual scripting (Kismet) at a level that can provide native game functionality (as opposed to being isolated to providing only in-mission functionality).

Seriously? Kismet is doing exactly what it's supposed to do, it's not meant as a replacement for scripting, nor is it likely to ever be. This is a pipe dream.

What would be awesome is RTS- and RPG-style frameworks that can be turned on and off easily. RTS and RPG are standard formats of games.

RTS and RPG are standard genres of games that have many many fundamentally different implementations (RPGs especially). You seem to want a game that can be made by clicking checkboxes. You can do that, it just won't be a good game and it won't be made with the UDK. Bite the bullet and either learn to program or convince some poor sap to do it for you.

[Serenius]

Is this guy for real?

[McTavish]

this is insane, are you working on a game or just bashing UDK in the forums ? Im not understanding any of this. What do you mean by selecting "RPG" framework ?

[TheAgent]

he wants it so that there is a drop down menu in the game info where u just select what kind of game you want then you hit play and you have urself a full fledged final fantasy game

with chocobos and and treasure chests. >_>

[McTavish]

Lol my initial post included "final fantasy" too but was a little less nice than yours Agent. Hows Jack and SKyla coming along ? reply to my post in the Work in Progress section man