Game Design Schools?

[rysakai1]

Hi Everyone,

I currently work in IT support but I'm considering a career switch to either game design or game programming as both areas interest me very much. I'm working through some books and using UDK as a learning platform but I know that even if I manage to put together an amazing portfolio, I'll still need the education to back it up. Is there anyone out there that has a specialized degree in game design or programming and can you tell me what school you went to? I'm also considering a more generic computer science degree but I'm not sure what is the best way to go. Any advice would be appreciated.

[BHawthorne]

I'm a bit cynical when it comes to "game design schools". The best way to break into things is who you know.

[Phopojijo]

And the second best thing is your portfolio. This is precisely what game design colleges will provide you... ... a place to build your portfolio.

... Which you could also do with a few books, UDK or similar dev kits, and a copy of Maya or 3DS max or something (like you are doing)... for a fraction of the cost... assuming you're not one of those people who needs structured deadlines to learn... ((and if you are -- game design -- might not be the best job)).

If you want to be a programmer... don't bother going to a game design college -- get a degree at an actual University in CompSci ((Physics, Math, and other majors work as well...)).

[neai]

CompSci isn't very good either.

[Angel_Mapper]

Having seen the price of video game schools, yikes. I don't know why anyone would go that route for such a specialized degree.

[nickmarks]

The best school around for games

http://g4tv.com/videos/20994/will-wo...nt-developers/

[rysakai1]

Thank you everyone for your input. I have always been good at teaching myself things so I'll probably stick with that route for now to build up my skills and portfolio. Is it possible to get hired without a 4 year degree ( I have a 2 year network admin degree) if you have an impressive enough portfolio? I'd be very interested to hear from anyone that this has actually happened to or from someone who is responsible for hiring.

[Angel_Mapper]

Having been involved in the interviewing of numerous people now, I can say that we rarely care that you have a degree, we just want to see your portfolio. Working on mod teams that have actually released something is great too, as it shows that you can commit to something and see it through.

[ambershee]

Personally, I wouldn't recommend a game design school at all. It really is your portfolio that counts, and whilst it might generate you that portfolio, you'll just end up with a generic 'through the hoops' crop of work that will look like exactly that. Doing a degree can get you some valuable know-how, and doing your own learning on the side that's more pertinent to your particular chosen career-path will show dedication and willing that the game-school learning won't. Generally, entertaining a programming orientated computer science course if you're into technical topics, or a 3d art orientated CG/Art course if you're more into the art side of things can be a good move.

[NightClucker]

This is a good place to start: http://www.gamecareerguide.com/schools/

[Piranhi]

While I will agree with some of the comments posted here, I would say that attending a course is a good thing. I've been to a lot of games career fairs and spoke to industry professionals on a one to one basis from places like Rockstar, Codemasters, Team17, Rare and Evolution Studios, some of the advice they gave me includes:

Portfolio: This basically reflects who you are, so put a lot of time and effort into it. Only show your best work, don't fill it with everyone you've done.

Experience: Get in a mod team if you can, having a released game/mutator/mod shows that you know what the industry expects of you. John Dennis from Team17 said this was one of the key factors he looks for in applicants.

Education: While some people here say that having a degree in games design isn't required, it certainly doesn't help. Although Rachel doesn't look for a degree under the applicants belt, a lot of companies do, and it can even bypass the "Must have worked in the industry for 3 years" requirement. It also shows you can work under pressure, to deadlines and in groups well.

Starting out: One of the best ways to get your dream job in level design/programming/3D etc is to start out in Q&A (Quality and assurance, testing games basically). Companies are a lot more likely to hire people from within if you have the talent and the games industry is really small, chances are if you make a good name for yourself a lot of people will of heard about you.

Dedication: Obvious one, but if you really want to work in the games industry you have to be really dedicated. Apply to companies who aren't even looking to hire at the moment on the off chance that they may have a position opening etc. Be persistent but don't become an annoyance.

[ambershee]

I'd stress that whilst a lot of companies look for a degree - they don't necessarily look for a degree in games design. I've come into contact with more than one company that doesn't take them seriously, and may even go so far as to not even consider the applicant based upon it, portfolio or no. Having encountered a number of 'Game Design' courses here in the UK - I can understand why.

[obsolete]

The big question is cost. A lot of students (often young), don't realize what it means to try and pay back a student loan once you're out, especially in an industry like the games one where pay is low and jobs are unstable.

And, it's true, although some are good, many of the game-related programs out there are a joke and it will hurt you much more than it will help you.

[Piranhi]

I'd stress that whilst a lot of companies look for a degree - they don't necessarily look for a degree in games design. I've come into contact with more than one company that doesn't take them seriously, and may even go so far as to not even consider the applicant based upon it, portfolio or no. Having encountered a number of 'Game Design' courses here in the UK - I can understand why.

I agree with you entirely, but, if you want to be a level designer why spend 3 years doing a degree in something other then games/level design? Even if the course isn't amazing, you can spend those 3/4 years just learning about what you want to do rather then spending half your free time learning something else which you don't really need.

At the end of the day, a degree in games design isn't really sought after, but, it can give you opportunities which you wouldn't have learning from home, eg talking to people in the industry, create a group with other students to make a mod, learning products you wouldn't use at home unless you live on a pirate ship and maybe even getting your name out there when you have guest speakers.
The down side, and it is a BIG downside, is the course cost. I'm currently sitting on a massive debt and 80% of the stuff I learnt, I learnt myself.

[neai]

I agree with you entirely, but, if you want to be a level designer why spend 3 years doing a degree in something other then games/level design?

The tools and technology changes very rapidly and can be learned quickly. However, not everyone who can hold a brush can paint a Mona Lisa. Most of them paint walls. I'd study architecture or design (not game design), and work on portfolio in free time.

[cdiddy]

ok i am very interested in this subject because i need to chose where to go to school soon. however i am more interested in graphic design/3d design/modeling/level design and not programming. are there any good colleges in the new england area that are good for this?

[micahpharoh]

Any employees from Epic want to give some advice? You've obviously made it big.

[Piranhi]

The tools and technology changes very rapidly and can be learned quickly. However, not everyone who can hold a brush can paint a Mona Lisa. Most of them paint walls. I'd study architecture or design (not game design), and work on portfolio in free time.

I don't understand what you're getting at here. If you want to become a game designer and you also want to go to university, why do a architecture degree instead of games design degree. True, if you want to create architecture in 3D for games it might be some use, but then why not take a course in 3D design instead.

[Angel_Mapper]

It's always better to have a backup plan. If you get a specialized games degree then you can't use it when (not if, when) you're out of work and can't find another games job right away. And there's always the possibility that you'll never find a games job at all.

[Piranhi]

Yeah, again I agree with what you're saying, Rachel. But I personally believe putting 100% dedication into learning games design for the 3-4 years you're at uni, and doing it while you have the time to do so, will give you a better chance of getting a job then say, if you spent those 3-4 years, for example, primarily studying architecture.

[Jetfire]

It's always better to have a backup plan. If you get a specialized games degree then you can't use it when (not if, when) you're out of work and can't find another games job right away. And there's always the possibility that you'll never find a games job at all.

^This. Lets face it, a lot of non-industry employers will find a game design degree laughable, 'soft', compared to a more traditional subject. To some extent, I think I can thank my traditional 'hard' degree for keeping me in the industry in current times, despite being not specialised for anything other than research.

To concur with another point, I also have heard anecdotal evidence of industry companies that would rather not take on game degree graduates, partly for having to un-teach them what they think they know, partly because they don't have a great track record of handling crunch time without crumbling.

[Piranhi]

OK, I can see quite a few people have a negative view on a games design course, and I don't blame them. The size of our class is relatively small and the views people have are maybe a reason why.

I have to say though, our course has around a 40% succession rate in getting quite top rated jobs, which is pretty good for a games design course. There are a majority on our course who do just take it as a free ride, playing WoW and ****ing around more than they do studying, but last year alone we had students who left our course go to work on Operation Flashpoint, 50 Cent and a new EA game which even he won't tell me what it's about, within the first year. That was out of 7 students and one of them was from word of mouth via the employer doing a talk at our Uni.

Having a fall back plan is definitely a sound and secure option, but don't make the fall back plan your main plan if you really do want to work in the games industry. Again, this advice isn't from me, just from the people in the industry I've talked to.

[rysakai1]

Wow, thank you everyone for all of your different points of view on this subject. This discussion has really given me a lot to think about as I set up plans for the future.

[kyoryu]

Full Sail seems to do well, as well as a few others.

The most important thing is ability. Pure and simple. A degree from a game dev school may get your resume near the top of the pile, but it won't get you a job. And even if you don't have that game dev degree (or even, in some cases, a degree), you'll still get a shot if you can demonstrate ability.

As far as degrees go... I'd also recommend not going for the game dev degree overall. What sounds like a dream job at 18 or 20 may not be one at 30 or 35. And while you can certainly transition from the game industry to more mainstream work (I did), having that option available from an earlier start is not a bad thing.

[weephun]

Quite a few Epic developers have already chimed in on this subject here: http://forums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?t=451

[Piranhi]

Great read, especially Cliffy B's advice. Cheers, Weephun.

[tyrone70]

I attend IADT Orlando and I REALLY wish I knew this before I attended. I realized that have a Game Degree wasn't really necessary about a year into it. My main motivation for finishing now is because if I withdraw, a massive debt will drop on me. Of course, I'm going to be doing a lot more for my portfolio, but it is a very annoying process getting a degree in this field. I would strongly recommend getting a closely related degree from a university.

btw: IADT is not a terrible school, it's just not worth the price. And as someone said earlier, A LOT of people hear do more WoW than learning.

[Tom@engineaudio]

No offense, but I think there are a lot of people here talking with little knowledge of the subject. A quality game design school, mixed with some serious drive and personal responsibility is a great way to get into the industry.

Several companies I have dealt with are fully stocked with graduates from game design schools, or specialized degree programs. They are expensive (the good ones) and involve a serious commitment of time and energy. So make sure that its the correct path for you. However, dont give too much credence to people who never went to one, and have never worked professionally in the business.

Researching answers and thinking real hard about what to do, this is your best offer.

^This. Lets face it, a lot of non-industry employers will find a game design degree laughable, '

TI also have heard anecdotal evidence of industry companies that would rather not take on game degree graduates, partly for having to un-teach them what they think they know, partly because they don't have a great track record of handling crunch time without crumbling.

I would say the complete opposite of this, since a GOOD school will take you through the ringers of milestones, troubleshooting, etc.

I always argue on behalf of education, both in school and constantly at the independent level. Cold call a few companies that you would like to work for, and ask them what they think. That will give you some real insight from professionals who actually hire people at the pro level. The truth is, none of those people are here at the moment to respond to your question.

[ambershee]

That will give you some real insight from professionals who actually hire people at the pro level. The truth is, none of those people are here at the moment to respond to your question.

Sorry Tom, but my vote is strongly with all these guys below. And FYI, they're all experienced and work within the games industry, and some having been in the position of hiring and firing. This is probably the best advice you can get.

In terms of game design schools, I would say they aren't necessary if you are self motivated and are able to teach yourself what you need to know. If you want to do everything (level design/code/game design/texturing/3d modeling), then maybe going to a school is a good thing so you can figure out which 1-2 of those you want to focus on.

In the end what matters is skill level in the field in which you are applying for a position. Basically, school doesn't matter, but if school helps you get better or if it gives you direction, it might be helpful if you can afford it.

Regarding Gaming School: It’s my feeling that as an industry, we still put more emphasis on portfolio and work experience vs formal education when it comes down to hiring someone. So I don’t think a resume/portfolio from someone who graduated with a gaming degree would be weighted much differently than someone with a normal CIS/ART/whatever degree or even someone who is self taught.

Portfolio will always trump education. If you have a demonstrated body of work that shows you excel, I don’t think doors will close to you. So go ahead and self-learn everything. If you have the skill, people will hire you.

If you plan on being a programmer, don't go to one of those game schools. Go to a traditional university and get a CS education. We've yet to have a candidate from one of the non-traditional universities pass our programming test. Also, the average career in the games industry only lasts 5 years, so it's important to have a good education to fall back on.

All game companies care about is what you can produce - your portfolio - they don't care whether you have a degree or what school you go to.

Having been involved in the interviewing of numerous people now, I can say that we rarely care that you have a degree, we just want to see your portfolio. Working on mod teams that have actually released something is great too, as it shows that you can commit to something and see it through.

The big question is cost. A lot of students (often young), don't realize what it means to try and pay back a student loan once you're out, especially in an industry like the games one where pay is low and jobs are unstable.

And, it's true, although some are good, many of the game-related programs out there are a joke and it will hurt you much more than it will help you.

It's always better to have a backup plan. If you get a specialized games degree then you can't use it when (not if, when) you're out of work and can't find another games job right away. And there's always the possibility that you'll never find a games job at all.

[kyoryu]

Sorry Tom, but my vote is strongly with all these guys below. And FYI, they're all experienced and work within the games industry, and some having been in the position of hiring and firing. This is probably the best advice you can get.

I also have significant experience in the game industry, on AAA titles. The advice I gave was based upon observations and seeing who was or was not hired into my place(s) of employment.

The game industry as a whole is as close to a pure meritocracy as you will find. Degrees and credentials are secondary to talent and ability. The value of a degree in the game industry is that it will often help get you the skills necessary to get hired.

BTW, that doesn't mean I'm anti-degree. I'm not. It's the fastest, most sure way to getting a good career, game industry or not. But the piece of paper, for the game industry, is often secondary to the knowledge and abilities that were acquired in the course of getting it. And the best developers I've met have an insatiable hunger for learning, and have learned far, far beyond what they were ever taught.

[Tom@engineaudio]

Well, if you are expecting to get a good paying job because of a degree, then you are dreaming. If you are looking to get a solid foundation started, and are prepared to start at the internship level, then the correct education is a great way to start.