Matchmaking VS Lobby System

[jimm120]

I have to ask. I really do. I've never played a game with "Matchmaking" until Gears of War 2. Now, I've found it as a hindrance. Here is why.

If we, for example, take 1 hour to play, this is how it plays out:

Gears of War 2 Matchmaking - 40 minutes of play time and 15 - 20 minutes of finding a match.

Gears of War 1 Lobby System - 55 minutes of play time and 5 minutes of finding a match.


How did I come up with that?

well, for GoW 1's lobby system, I LOVED playing in long matches. Firstly, you connect with your teammates. Then, you also do not have to go through the process of finding a match so often, which reduces time spent outside of gaming.

In GoW 2's matchmaking system, it takes 3 - 6 minutes (usually) to find a match. On top of that, the matches are only 5 rounds long. This entails that you have to go through the matchmaking process again in 10 - 13 minutes. So, every 10 mins. (approx.), you have to spend 3 - 6 minutes finding a match. I know, sometimes you find one in 30 seconds to 1 minute but honestly, how often does that happen? Not often enough.

Oh, there are also many pro's with in each system but I think the Lobby system far outweighs matchmaking's pros.
-In the Lobby system, you get to play longer matches, play the gametype YOU want, play in a lag free system since you can CHECK the host's connection before you join, and play in the map you like.
-Matchmaking's pros are that you get and even playing field because it matches you up with people around you (though as most people can attest to, there is always 2 - 3 people that don't really belong). There is an "even" playing field because all matches are set to X rounds.


Also, matchmaking hinders finding matches a lot in not-so popular game modes. I personally need to finish my "friend with benefits" achievement but I can't find anyone that is playing Act 4 (which is what I need). If at least Co-op had the same system as in GoW 1, I could check out anyone that is playing host to coop at the moment and then join them at whatever point they're at. At least I can evaluate how close to the section that I need them to be they are. But last night, I ended up having to go through every act IV checkpoint and every difficulty level and keep pressing start to try to get into a game...and it never did because I didn't know if there was anyone playing. At least, if I knew if people were close to act 4, I'd join. But I don't.

Horde is another matter where matchmaking hinders it. I barely play Horde. The biggest reason has been that I can't get into a match. I put it to start the match but it takes LOOONNGG to find players. It takes upwards to 10 minutes to find players. Sorry, but I'm not into waiting 10 - 15 minutes (and even less, waiting 5 minutes for matches). So, I can barely play horde. I've only played it 3 times: system link/splitscreen when I first got the game, once when I left matchmaking on for 15 or so minutes and it found people, and by myself yesterday because matchmaking couldn't find anyone. I would really like to play Horde but no one to play because the matchmaking doesn't find them.

So, what do you guys like more? I'd specifically would like to know if the Gears of War 2 community would like Epic to change things with the 4th title update that is coming in July.

I'll be making a poll (if I can), with these options. Where do you fall into?

Option 1: Matchmaking Only - Just like now.

Option 2: Matchmaking and Lobby System - Why? because some people undoubetly DO like matchmaking's ease of use (only press the button once and it does the rest for you) Plus, Matchmaking is already in there, so no need to take it out. Just add in a lobby if people want it..

Option 3: Lobby System Only - Why? Because there are less and less players as time goes on after release and it takes longer and longer for matchmaking to work.

[vuurbalz]

1700 votes 90% agrees with you
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[2Shots4_BOOMER]

ive played lots of games with matchmaking. the first for me was WarCraft 3 and i found the matchmaking to be superb, though PC games like that rarely deal with lag it was excellent at finding opponents of similar skill.

theres still a lot of things that EPIC may or should have done prior to releasing gow2, but the major issue is the lack of dedicated servers. if there was any other way for them to eliminate host as well as lag, they should have done so to improve our experience. unfortunately they really looked over this host advantage crap, because matchmaking is HORRIBLE at find a host with no lag. this is what has ruined gow2(even though i still love it and find it better than gow1) the lag ruins a lot of games for people and it is why gow2 is not doing better in terms of players online.

with dedicated servers, and elimination of host as well as lag, there would be greater numbers of people playing and matchmaking would improve itself by sheer numbers. too bad epic likes this host advantage crap in order to enjoy gow2 you must be a very patient person and be willing to deal with bullsht games to get good ones.

as far as you complaining about horde, well you shouldnt be relying on matchmaking to get you your team, youll never find 4 randoms willing(or capable)of going all 50 waves. its just like in public versus you will be better off getting a team together yourself. i never play with 4 randoms either i play wingman or if i get 3-4 people i dont mind a random or 2(this is how my friends list continues to grow) but i cant deal with 4 randoms. i pity all who say they search without a few people in there party. thinking this game should not revolve around building your own team is what gets people so upset with this game in the first place

[jimm120]

ive played lots of games with matchmaking. the first for me was WarCraft 3 and i found the matchmaking to be superb, though PC games like that rarely deal with lag it was excellent at finding opponents of similar skill.

theres still a lot of things that EPIC may or should have done prior to releasing gow2, but the major issue is the lack of dedicated servers. if there was any other way for them to eliminate host as well as lag, they should have done so to improve our experience. unfortunately they really looked over this host advantage crap, because matchmaking is HORRIBLE at find a host with no lag. this is what has ruined gow2(even though i still love it and find it better than gow1) the lag ruins a lot of games for people and it is why gow2 is not doing better in terms of players online.

with dedicated servers, and elimination of host as well as lag, there would be greater numbers of people playing and matchmaking would improve itself by sheer numbers. too bad epic likes this host advantage crap in order to enjoy gow2 you must be a very patient person and be willing to deal with bullsht games to get good ones.

Well, I feel a game this popular should at least start out with servers (at least the first year or first 6 - 8 months) and then revert back to old peer to peer connections that most of XBLive uses. I understand a game that barely goes over 750 K not getting servers (which cost money), but a game that is a surefire 5 million seller should at least give the fans the courtesy to play on servers. I'm not a fan of the PS3 but every online game on the PS3 has servers, even games that barely sell 750k (which is most of PS3 games). Why gimp fans on the 360 by not give it to them? Especially when the game is a hit?

But that really isn't my biggest complain. Yes, Matchmaking does a horrible job of choosing host sometimes, but the biggest thing is the time consuming part. I just hate waiting, staring at a screne that saying "searching for players" or whatever. It takes too long and occurs too often. Give us the right to play in long matches, like in Gears 1.

[2Shots4_BOOMER]

But that really isn't my biggest complain. Yes, Matchmaking does a horrible job of choosing host sometimes, but the biggest thing is the time consuming part. I just hate waiting, staring at a screne that saying "searching for players" or whatever. It takes too long and occurs too often. Give us the right to play in long matches, like in Gears 1.

if your matchmaking is taking over 10 minutes and not finding a game, then you probably have a problem with your firewall settings, i have Never EVER have had to wait that long. and yes i have searched for randoms in horde (when i was training a friend) and it always started right up. if i have a full 5 man team in public versus we usually dont wait for over 30-40seconds. even in the RARE occasions i search for 4 randoms it doesnt take 10 minutes

i agree that matchmaking is causing a lot of down time compared to lobbies, but i really prefer playing with my team against different people each game. that is the only benefit of matchmaking, but if they eliminated the lag/host problems then there would be no downfall to matchmaking IMO. again the downtime is crap compared to the non-stop play of open lobbies, but for me the time spent in between games is usually rather quick. probably cuz im always searching games with at least a few other guys.

whenever i play gears i disconnect my router/pc and connect the xbox straight to my modem so that i have my best connection

[BaLLiN_BG]

I would love for their to be a lobby and it tells you your ping to the server so you'll know if you're going to lag or not.

[ADG]

Lobby would eliminate those situations where you get tossed into a host from a distant country, or just a down right laggy host.

[jimm120]

if your matchmaking is taking over 10 minutes and not finding a game, then you probably have a problem with your firewall settings, i have Never EVER have had to wait that long. and yes i have searched for randoms in horde (when i was training a friend) and it always started right up. if i have a full 5 man team in public versus we usually dont wait for over 30-40seconds. even in the RARE occasions i search for 4 randoms it doesnt take 10 minutes

i agree that matchmaking is causing a lot of down time compared to lobbies, but i really prefer playing with my team against different people each game. that is the only benefit of matchmaking, but if they eliminated the lag/host problems then there would be no downfall to matchmaking IMO. again the downtime is crap compared to the non-stop play of open lobbies, but for me the time spent in between games is usually rather quick. probably cuz im always searching games with at least a few other guys.

whenever i play gears i disconnect my router/pc and connect the xbox straight to my modem so that i have my best connection

Well, for Horde it does. I don't have HUGE problems with Guardian/Warzone. Sometimes I get lucky and get in in 30 seconds to 1 minutes. MOST other times, I end up having to wait 2 - 3 minutes. And sometimes I have to wait 4 - 5 minutes.

But for Horde, I can never find anyone. So, it isn't a problem with my firewall. I can do well in every other game mode but Horde and Coop, I just can't find anyone.

[jimm120]

Lobby would eliminate those situations where you get tossed into a host from a distant country, or just a down right laggy host.

I'm not in the states and I've been told that I have a good connection. Whenever I'm host, I always ask at the end what the other players thought of the connection and they always say good. Only like 3 times have I had someone say it is laggy...though not everyone said it was laggy, just those 3 people (in different matches).

Thanks god I live outside the US, where I can get such superb quality connections such as 768 Down/ 512 Up for the equivalent to $100 :/

[Mintthepepper13]

They can't implement the Player matches as in gears 1, it's not as easy, if it was it would be already done. Plus TU4 is finished and almost ready to go through cert

[2Shots4_BOOMER]

They can't implement the Player matches as in gears 1, it's not as easy, if it was it would be already done

thats not the reason at all, in fact matchmaking is much more complex. the only reason we dont have player matches is cuz it would slow down matchmaking cuz less people would search for games that way

[Mintthepepper13]

thats not the reason at all, in fact matchmaking is much more complex. the only reason we dont have player matches is cuz it would slow down matchmaking cuz less people would search for games that way

Matchmaking is more complicated, but adding player matches to an already finished game (on a disc) through a title Update is not as easy, since they would have to add an extra option to the player matches since it wouldn't work based upon the MM, it would possibly be too big for a TU

[BLOOD&METAL]

I think the best you can hope for, for Gears 2 is this - http://gearsforums.epicgames.com/sho...d.php?t=679743

Also see this thread: http://gearsforums.epicgames.com/sho...d.php?t=669694

[jimm120]

I think the best you can hope for, for Gears 2 is this - http://gearsforums.epicgames.com/sho...d.php?t=679743

Also see this thread: http://gearsforums.epicgames.com/sho...d.php?t=669694

well, that "server list' is EXACTLY the lobby system

[Dormiglione]

The lobby system would reduce the matches with laggy Hosts. Once you played a match with a laggy Host you dont enter again his Lobby.

[Spazzumes]

They can't do this for ranked as the teams would be unfair. Lobbies for private

[Mintthepepper13]

They can't do this for ranked as the teams would be unfair. Lobbies for private

...that's the main purpose of "player matches" isn't it?

[Davey T]

for me personally i dont know why they changed the online match system. there was nothing wrong with gears 1 so why change it

[Jake2320]

I like lobby system better. Even though matchmaking is only like a minute to find a match.

[jimm120]

...that's the main purpose of "player matches" isn't it?

Do we want to play Player matches? Also, from what I understand, player matches are to be played with people on your friendslist only. So, how are we supposed to get people into those matches? Not everyone likes "player matches". I like my stats to count (don't know if they do or do not count in Players) but all I know is that there are more people in Public matches and that is where the game is intended to be played.

They can't do this for ranked as the teams would be unfair. Lobbies for private

Unfair? Have you seen the stuff that Matchmaking makes quite often? In Gears 1, it wasn't known if where you were going into had a strong team or not. Yeah, sometimes people would make a match and rejoin from the old game. But that is the same concept of "inviting players" from Gears 2. There aren't unfair matches. Just this afternoon, I played with a #1, #8, and #12 on my team, even though I am a #43. Oh, and everyone on the other team was in their 30's - 50's, aside for one in their 20's. Matchmaking tries to make teams even but that doesn't exactly happen.

[FloridaGears2]

with lobby you dont have to worry about @$$-0 lagging up the game that much.

1. you see how good the connection is before u even start the match(colored stripes)
2. you know who host is and you can just avoid it.

with matchmaking
1. connections is not consistant
2. cheaters
3. @$$-0

[Chappe11e]

Getting lobbies back would alleviate 80% of the problems in multi-player.

[jimm120]

Getting lobbies back would alleviate 80% of the problems in multi-player.

yeah, it definitely would. THe only thing it DOES give is:

1 - "even" matches
2 - one button press to "start" the match finding process


But it creates so many other problems:

1 - Gets laggy Hosts often
2 - Takes a long time most of the time to find matches
3 - Playlists...which mean that you might not get what you want to play or play in the map you want.
4 - Locked options, such as only 2, 3, or 5 round matches.


Lobby System fixes all of those problems and honestly, the 2 "pro's" of matchmaking are not enough of a Con in a Lobby System than those other 4 cons I wrote about for Matchmaking.

[oOausarOo]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with matchmaking in general. It's proven to be a great system. The Gears matchmaking specifically is just very poor.

[BLOOD&METAL]

well, that "server list' is EXACTLY the lobby system

Hence the reason I posted the link.

[jimm120]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with matchmaking in general. It's proven to be a great system. The Gears matchmaking specifically is just very poor.

I don't know. I've never played another game with matchmaking but this is just bad.

Epic, please give us a Lobby system. We need it since there are less and less people on.

We already can't play Horde, Coop because matchmaking doesn't find anyone. I don't want that happening to Guardian.

[< Profess >]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with matchmaking in general. It's proven to be a great system.

In what sense has it been proven as great? The best known MM setup is HALO3's and even that is bad if you have any level of preference about what you play. MM by design is super casual friendly game creation achieved by restricting your choices.

It doesn't do anything better if you are even slightly competent about how to use a sever-list. (Which I think everyone is since Gears1's setup wasn't met with wide-spread head-scratching)

MM does what it was made to do, but it is by no means great.

[Vanir]

H3s matchmaking is great if you just want to play Slayer all day. But if you are like me and want to play 2-flag CTF, you might as well quit and go find another game to play. Which is what I did...

[komradkyle]

How about FUNCTIONAL matchmaking?

[Izanami Okami]

Getting lobbies back would alleviate 80% of the problems in multi-player.

yes, the biggest one is full control on how and what you play. matchmaking has inherent problems as a system and open lobbies can do anything matchmaking does presently without as many side effects

open lobbies ftw

[jimm120]

Yeah, matchmaking is a nice little tool for casual gamers but I think you HAVE to give more credit to gamers. Especially gamers of games like GEARS OF WAR. I'd understand if this was a Mario game that attracted little kids and that they'd need help figuring out how to play online....but we aren't. This is a mature game meant to be played by players over the age of 17 (?). MOST of us know how to go into a match with lobbies.

Matchmaking is frustrating...

[Matus_Fenix]

Lobby system of course cause I don't have the patience to find the match. Plus, in Lobby system, you can chose either to be COG or Locust. In Matchmaking, they choose it for you.

[DiegoXP]

Matchmaking for Ranked
Lobby for Unranked

Or just lobby, I mean in a lobby system you can choose the Host, and actually you can see the Ping and many other good stuff.
Matchmaking it's all about randomness

[jimm120]

Matchmaking for Ranked
Lobby for Unranked

Or just lobby, I mean in a lobby system you can choose the Host, and actually you can see the Ping and many other good stuff.
Matchmaking it's all about randomness

why do people like unranked games???

I play Gears online. I would like my stats to count. So I play ranked. Why am I forced to use matchmaking so my stats can count?

Also, unranked games have too much variety. Weapon spawns are moved, etc. All I want from Ranked matches is to have a FASTER option than matchmaking and to get into matches which are longer than 3 - 5 rounds.

Honestly, all I played in Gears 1 were 10 - 19 round matches. I don't understand why anyone would want to play a 10 minute match instead of a 30 minute match. When you join a game of Team Fortress 2, do you want the map to be changing every 10 minutes? No, you go in to play for 1 - 2 horus and in that time the map changes 2 - 4 times. You stay a lengthy amount of time there. Oh, and judging by how many people played and hosted 10+ round matches, I'm guessing that a lot of people would love long matches.

[FloridaGears2]

bump i like this thread

[aKa BFeLLa]

Toooooooooooo much to read.....

[Chewbacca1978]

I've just had by far the worst weekend Matchmaking with the Broken System. All weekend we where put into unplayable connections, mostly Mexican and West Coast USA. We got host 2 twice all weekend with a full party, and only 3 games had a host from EU. We had large piles of B/S after B/S and never have I been so let down with this game, How can you expect to play a shoter with lag like this..I'd struggle to play a sports game, let alone a shoter..... EPIC Sort the PING times out now, it's a shambles that after 8months we are still getting games at 200ms pings where your teleporting, 3/4 sec lag, un beatable host from the otherside of the moon on dial up...I can't not understand why this game plays SO bad most of the time.

[dazthekiller]

gow1 worked far better online than gears 2.

i loved been able to play as many rounds as i liked in what game mode i wanted.

and been able to check pings before i enter a game was great.

if gears 2 had the gears 1 lobby system a hell of a lot more people would still be playing this game.

i only have 1 other person on my f/l who plays gears 2 but i have around 20 who still play gears 1 because of the above reasons

[xD3G3NERATE]

Why did the Poll take me to UT04?

[jimm120]

Why did the Poll take me to UT04?

Don't know. It was like that after I put it up.

gow1 worked far better online than gears 2.

i loved been able to play as many rounds as i liked in what game mode i wanted.

and been able to check pings before i enter a game was great.

if gears 2 had the gears 1 lobby system a hell of a lot more people would still be playing this game.

i only have 1 other person on my f/l who plays gears 2 but i have around 20 who still play gears 1 because of the above reasons

Same thing. I don't care for "ease of use" of something that is ALREADY easy to use. Yes, now we only have to set out playlist and press 1 button the the process then guides you step by step. But come on, how hard is it to press refresh, look for a match that is in the map YOU want with the amount of rounds YOU want, and with a non-laggy connection? Not hard. I don't understand why they think matchmaking is good.

I don't like this randomness. The ONLY game I've liked to just let the computer decide where to play in is Left 4 Dead, which I always put in "quick match" to go into a match. But man, that is QUICK....mostly because it is a server. Still, I don't care where I go in that game since you technically play the same thing in every map. But In gears, I want to see where I'm playing. I want to see the connection strength. I want to see how long the round is.

I