DM-Chronomancer - A battle through time [BETA1]

[Crayfish]

Name: DM-Chronomancer - A battle through time.
Version: BETA 1 - released 18/04/09
Compatibility: v2,0 - Titan Pack (Titan Assets used)

STORY/THEME: The average Axon soldier never knew about the research facility Elara V, let alone the work on the time displacement equipment there, but after the loss of all contact with the base, every available unit is scrambled to the site to secure the decisive technology. Little do they know what awaits them there.

VIDEO (HD version available):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP5Tg_OZuqQ

SCREENSHOTS:




PLAYERGUIDE:
The map was designed around a central hazard zone with heavy emphasis on z-Axis fighting and mobility. Control of the Jump Boots (which are located in the most dangerous area of the map) is the key to victory, as they allow quick access to every level.
The Monitor room/Liftshaft is the next area of focus. It contains the chest armor, 5 health vials and the monitor screen that displays the spawning of super items in the opposite timezone. There is line of sight into the Monitor Room from many other areas of the map through the Liftshaft, so alot of inter-level fighting will be focused here.


One super powerup spawns in each timezone (Damage Amp in the Present and the Shieldbelt in the Future) so fighting through both timezones is extremely important in gaining control of the map.
The lower generator room is a place of refuge, it contains health and the entrance to the lift.
There are liftjumps that allow quick access to the Time Portal, and safe access to the Shock Rifle, and for all you trick-jump pros, there is a hidden X-ray field in the Present timezone and a Stasis Field in the Future.
Despite the epic scale of the map, it was designed with duels/small team games in mind. I think the map will play best with between 2 and 8 players, Duel or TDM.

DOWNLOAD PC (PS3 to come):
EDIT* MSUC version on FilePlanet now available: http://www.fileplanet.com/200205/200...M-Chronomancer (this is a slightly tweaked version,, its not really a full Beta2, so not worth an extra download if u already have the map, but if u dont have it yet, get this one)

INSTALLATION: Extract to My Documents\My Games\Unreal Tournament 3\UTGame\Published\CookedPC\CustomMaps

CREDITS: Me, Epic, H.G.Wells, Thomas Cole, Takashi Tezuka, the L.H.C, the contributers to the 'DM-Gameplay' thread: http://utforums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?t=642505 , Biff Tandem and his dystopic Hill Valley
Tutorials: 3D Buzz(UT3 Special Edition DVD), Hourences, DGUnreal, cannedmushrooms, godfree7 & kcin228(Youtube).

SERVERS: If you are hosting, or have seen this map on any servers pls let me know and I'll list them here.

INSPIRATION:
Theme: A DM level set in a single phisical space, but in two different timezones. The origonal concept came from the Super Nintendo game Zelda III, where the hero is able to warp between two dimensions that occupy the same phisical space. When I played DM-Gateway for the first time, I got the idea to create a level where instead of warping between phisical spaces, u warp between timezones. I was origonaly going to create a level set in the different seasons but thought that the winter-summer cycles would be too close to DM-Gateway enviroments. It was then I remembered one of my favourite (series of) paintings Thomas Cole called 'The Course of Empire':
http://culture11.com/diary/32513
This depics the evolution of a landscape over 100s of years as a great civilisation comes to its zenith then descends into ruin(s).
As the idea took shape, further inspiration came from Valve's 'Portal, the fast teleporter maps for Quake3 CPMA and this series of paintings showing post-apocyliptic Tokyo becoming overgrown beneath tropical vegitation:

The central hazard area was inspired by this shot of the Large Hadron Collider:

Gameplay - Layout: After reading through this great thread on DM Gameplay: http://utforums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?t=642505
it seems that players enjoy freedom of movement, risk-reward and Z-Axis fighting. These were the key elements I designed this stage around.

ISSUES - TODO LIST:
There are major problems with bots. Bots seem to be able to overide aircontrol and other laws to navigate pathnodes as they see fit. I imagine this was done to compensate for thier lack of real intelligence as you bump up thier difficulty level. The problem this causes is that they can choose to stop dead in the Time Portal and get caught in an infinite warp. Im going to try out some different configurations in future releases, but the Portal works perfectly for how I want it in multiplayer and bots are low on my priority list.
When you test this out, please try to take a run through solo, or with other players.
The two timezone configuration I think could work well as a Greed map. If there is enough demand, I will consider undertaking the conversion.
PS3 version.
Give Lifts sound.
Whatever else comes up.


ENJOY, Crayfish.

[SynaGl0w]

That looks sweet! Excellent job!

[SEBASTIEN-NOVA]

Amazing, I think you're just crazy man !!
I d/l it right now

[Eymerich]

Just registered. One of the things I had to do first is to tell you that I'm fascinated with this map. Downloading the beta, I'll going to play it with bots though, since I'm still having problems connecting...

[Chaosnight]

This map looks awesome will d/l now!

[coolcat22]

map look great
great i idea with the time zones never see that befor in a map

[stevelois]

That look damn amazing & crazy Gonna try it.

[ColdfireRik]

The definition of win

[DarkSonny07]

Another map that tries to look like a "different map", great layout, Interesting use of the plants, lights....

Is here using any custom text or meshes for this map?

Anyway, the visuals you did got me attracted at beginning :up:, in the time come to see how will you manage the flow...It will be interesting

[LiquidLeary]

Awesome map! The visuals are top notch and go even crazier with the Udamage on. The layout is very complex, and is not too forgiving. With all of the power-ups, this map should be very intense online.

I noticed the bots getting stuck here and there. The lift in front of one of the portal exits is a little low and I accidentally fell into the water pit a few times as a result of not seeing that it was gone already. And I think I got jammed in one of the portals for about 3 seconds upon telefragging a bot once.

Good job Cray, this is definitely a winner.

[BuffyTheSlayer]

downloading !

[Xyx]

That is one seriously kick-ass concept!

[Crayfish]

Thanks for all the props guys, is real nice to hear after putting so much time and thought in Really glad u dig it!

[Gush]

Ehy mate!
I'm really impressed. :O

No words to describe this map! It's... it's simply amazing!
Gratz!

[stevelois]

Damn nice map you got there dude

Don't have a lot to comments. So I'll be brief :

The lift doesn't have sounds.



I was able to double jump there from the "x" spot. Maybe add a blockin volume ?



Others things :

- The tights pad placement is rather a odd. Meaning that it doesn't worth the trouble of getting since that small area is very risky. It would be more appropriate if you can put that small armor on a crate or something alike & put a powerup there, suggesting bezerk & invisibility. I also notice that bots don't collect it, you might check your bot pathing ?

- The shield belt is floating.

- A couple more of medium health & vials would be welcomed.

- Did you consider adding another way to use "travel thing" in the center of the map because I found it very restrictive to be only accessible by 1 way. While I spawn in a certain time, the opposite team wasn't there since they where in the other time & it as take a long time before they just appear in the same time of hours. If I could reach the other time period more quickly, the better because I felt out of place for to long. Maybe add 1 - 2 jump pad in the center room will do the job ?

In all, I love both time map. The final is a keeper for me

THX for your work

[Crayfish]

Thanks for your feedback Steve

The lift doesn't have sounds.

Yes they were susposed to have sounds but i didnt have time, a hi tech hum for the present timezone, and a clanky broken sound for the future. I will certainly add this in.

I was able to double jump there from the "x" spot. Maybe add a blockin volume ?

I'll look at that. There are some highspots that you can jump to, but mostly not a problem because they are very exposed.

- The tights pad placement is rather a odd. Meaning that it doesn't worth the trouble of getting since that small area is very risky. It would be more appropriate if you can put that small armor on a crate or something alike & put a powerup there, suggesting bezerk & invisibility. I also notice that bots don't collect it, you might check your bot pathing ?

Yes I should maybe make that another chest armor with vials. Dont want to add in anymore superpowerups. I haven't put paths to that or the hiden Keg, just because they are lengthy detours and I want to keep bots in the fight in the main areas.

- The shield belt is floating.

Will fix that.

- A couple more of medium health & vials would be welcomed.

Sure thing.

- Did you consider adding another way to use "travel thing" in the center of the map because I found it very restrictive to be only accessible by 1 way. While I spawn in a certain time, the opposite team wasn't there since they where in the other time & it as take a long time before they just appear in the same time of hours. If I could reach the other time period more quickly, the better because I felt out of place for to long. Maybe add 1 - 2 jump pad in the center room will do the job ?

There are two jumpads that go to the Time Portal. The other one is on the opposite side of the main room, on the highest balcony and is quickly accessable by liftjumping. Also, three jumps with the Jumpboots will get you through the portal. Your susposed to have to work a little bit to timetravel so you can't just continualy run away and since the super items are instantly accessable via the balcony jump pad route.

In all, I love both time map. The final is a keeper for me
THX for your work

Thanks alot, I appreciate it

[stevelois]

Oups... for the jump pad things, I guess I didn't play long enough, sorry

About that "Yes I should maybe make that another chest armor with vials. Dont want to add in anymore superpowerups. I haven't put paths to that or the hiden Keg, just because they are lengthy detours and I want to keep bots in the fight in the main areas."

Bots must be able to collect that. I did collect it but it's unbalanced if bots can't collect it which affect gameplay. Also, it will add more fun to human players to kill a bots going there. Bots pathing is very important & they should be able to go everywhere & collect everything at all time. Good bot pathing make the game much more interesting

[Crayfish]

Fair point. Thanks again

[L1A]

Wow, that's detailed.

[stevelois]

I re-read the first post regarding bots path. Since you mention it is very low in your priority, if you need any help on that, please let me know. I'm a offline player and bots pathing must be nicely made. TBH, it's the easiest part of mapping IMO so don't hesitate to ask

[Crayfish]

Thanks again Steve but I should be fine. What I meant by that statement was that Im happy with the way the Time Portal functions for non-bot use, and if it comes to a choice between changing the Portal and getting correct bot behaviour, the bots will loose out. Other than the portal I'm happy with the bots behaviour and they are prioritising all the routes I've forced, I just need to iron out some areas where they're bunching up. I added paths to the hidden armor today
Im going to tinker with the portal and see if I can sort out the infinite warp problem.
Thanks

[rathalos150]

That looks amazing! Just 100% Genius! I D/L right now!

[Rhykker]

This will quite possibly become my favorite custom DM map. Best level concept I've ever seen, the visuals are top notch, the flow of the map is great, there's plenty of opportunity for trick-jumping with wall dodges and stuff... This map is good enough to have been released with the Titan Pack. Epic quality.

[Crayfish]

wow thanks alot guys, nice to hear some words on the flow too. People mainly only mentioned the graphics and concept so far, but I tried to work with the principles of Flow, Risk-Reward and Z-Axis and really interested to hear feedback on the layout etc..

[Shivan Hunter]

OMG! Just saw this...

Have you ever played Final Doom, Level 4 in the TNT episode, "Wormhole"? It's based on a similar concept and I must say I really enjoyed that too. It's always nice to see something truly unique or original.

Any idea what servers are playing this map? I'd like to see some multiplayer action on it.

[Stuey95]

One word... WOW...

[Crayfish]

One word... WOW...

OMG! Just saw this...
Have you ever played Final Doom, Level 4 in the TNT episode, "Wormhole"? It's based on a similar concept and I must say I really enjoyed that too. It's always nice to see something truly unique or original.
Any idea what servers are playing this map? I'd like to see some multiplayer action on it.

Thanks guys.
Hunter, no I've not played any of the Doom games, I always wanted to get into them because people have such fond memories of them, but when I've tried, just feels too oldschool for me to get into.. The first FPS I got into was Exhumed on the Sega Saturn, then later Blood & Quake 2 when I got my first PC so Doom was kinda in the past by then. Im sure there several 1 player games that do something with a similar concept, and there is certainly alot more potential to do things with it in single player.
As for servers, I'd like to know that myself. I'll put a note in the first post asking for people to note if they see/are hosting it on any servers..
Thanks again.

[Odedge]

Gameplay - Layout: After reading through this great thread on DM Gameplay: http://utforums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?t=642505
it seems that players enjoy freedom of movement, risk-reward and Z-Axis fighting. These were the key elements I designed this stage around.

I think we may be able to get a small pack out of this thread! That being said, the layout is nice and solid. While it's not your typical DM layout, it does a very nice job, especially since it fits your "world".

ISSUES - TODO LIST:
There are major problems with bots. Bots seem to be able to overide aircontrol and other laws to navigate pathnodes as they see fit. I imagine this was done to compensate for thier lack of real intelligence as you bump up thier difficulty level. The problem this causes is that they can choose to stop dead in the Time Portal and get caught in an infinite warp. Im going to try out some different configurations in future releases, but the Portal works perfectly for how I want it in multiplayer and bots are low on my priority list.

While I have never used this technique to teleport players, can you change the collision on it so the bots hit a face of the collision box rather than the edge? In DM-DG-Waterfalls, I beleive he had and issue with bots using the standard UT teleporter (that you can see into). IIRC, he solved it by removing the mesh right next to them. While I don't think you would ultimately want to do this, it might be worth a shot to see if it fixes the problem. Also, have you tried removing the collision on the metal ring around the actual teleporter?

When you test this out, please try to take a run through solo, or with other players.

Played against the bots and they used the map well. I don't think I noticed any major problems with the Time Portal (which is very cool btw, in addition to having the same essential map with 2 different state of being), though I was looking more at the map . Here is my feedback for the map. Feel free to make comments or ask questions about my comments.

I do like the map over all and it will be a keeper, for sure, but I believe it can be better (or more polished to be accurate).

The two timezone configuration I think could work well as a Greed map. If there is enough demand, I will consider undertaking the conversion.

OK, I demand you make a Greed version (CTF-GRD-Chronomancer) as I do think it would work well and I like the game mode, especially in non-CTF layouts. I think having the conduits where the jump boots are now (above the water/heat pits) would be ideal. You could either have one on each end or place them both in both places. Other than that and the player starts, there should be little to convert (maybe removing the shield belt and big health).

[Crayfish]

Huge thanks foryour intelligent and detailed feedback Odedge, its very much appreciated.

I think we may be able to get a small pack out of this thread! That being said, the layout is nice and solid. While it's not your typical DM layout, it does a very nice job, especially since it fits your "world".

Thanks, I really did take the elements I read about in the thread (z-axis, freedom of movement, flow, risk reward) and tried to run with them, I perhaps whent too far. I dont know weather the final result will end up being unbalanced in some way when good players get on the map. But Im pretty certain its atleast fun and gives players the opportunity for lots of trick jumps, mid air frags and the like..

While I have never used this technique to teleport players, can you change the collision on it so the bots hit a face of the collision box rather than the edge? In DM-DG-Waterfalls, I beleive he had and issue with bots using the standard UT teleporter (that you can see into). IIRC, he solved it by removing the mesh right next to them. While I don't think you would ultimately want to do this, it might be worth a shot to see if it fixes the problem. Also, have you tried removing the collision on the metal ring around the actual teleporter?

Thanks I'll look into that and experiment. Yes I had thought about removing the collisionon the ring, but since players will be flying about with jump boots and hammer jumps from the upper balconys, I really want to keep collision for consistencys sake. Another option I've been thinking about is applying a physics force to the exit to push the bot out of the other side (and increase the jumppad time to balance out the overall speed/distance) tho I dont know if bots can overide this in the same way they can the jumppad force/aircontrol settings, probably they can..

OK, I demand you make a Greed version (CTF-GRD-Chronomancer) as I do think it would work well and I like the game mode, especially in non-CTF layouts. I think having the conduits where the jump boots are now (above the water/heat pits) would be ideal. You could either have one on each end or place them both in both places. Other than that and the player starts, there should be little to convert (maybe removing the shield belt and big health).

Thanks, yes I agree it has potential. I had thought about conduit placement quite a bit. Im not sure I agree that the jump boot position is optimum, because the jumpboots are a majorr gameplay element in themselves and essential for control of the map. Also having the conduits so low would restrict the gameplay to the lower levels. If you come through either of the teleporters with skulls, a simple turn and jump would get you down to the conduit within a second or two. I'd rather place the conduit up higher in the level so u have to work and expose urself a little bit to get to it, in the same way you have to, to get to the timeportal jumpads.

Played against the bots and they used the map well. I don't think I noticed any major problems with the Time Portal (which is very cool btw, in addition to having the same essential map with 2 different state of being), though I was looking more at the map . Here is my feedback for the map. Feel free to make comments or ask questions about my comments.

I do like the map over all and it will be a keeper, for sure, but I believe it can be better (or more polished to be accurate).

Massive thanks again, I ppreciate the time you have taken here. To address the points individualy:
1.) Yes I agree totaly, the black fence (like a few of the other points raised) was an issue I had to settle for the least worst option. The places where the black fence are (around the liftshaft etc) are designed to be windows to shoot through. When I used the lit version of the fence, it almost totaly blocked your line of sight because its so bright and shiny. I next tried applying the fence material to a mesh 'plane' but the maerial has a border that leaves gaps around the edges. In the end the unlit fence was the only option that worked how i wanted it. I'll try to add a metal sound by applying a metal meterail to the plane I have used for collision, hopethis will work.

2.) Will add extra meshes there.

3.) Yes I will apply more blocking to the walls in the main room especialy. I tried to reduce alot of unecicary collsions, tho i need to smooth over those areas.

4.) Yes this is an issue, I've tried to make it look as if its the electricits/heat thats causeing the glow, but i agree it doesnt seem stong enough a light source. I had concidered some kind of dynamic glow, but its hard to implement around such a heavily meshed area.. I dont really know what to do here..
I used more red than would normaly be used, to make as big a contrast between the timezones as possible (going from warm-shiny to cold-grimy). If the 'present' timezone was a standalone level, I would have gone with a different, more conventional scheme.. probably blue lighting..

5.) Will block that.

6.) Yes had problems implementing the sound on the list. Plan is to have a hum for the present and a clanging metal sound for the future. Just didnt have time in the beta..

7.) Yes will apply a metal material to the blocking mesh i used to hopefully generate sound.
Its very risky to get the keg, U are totaly vulnerable as you dive, but now u mention it, if u get the belt first then dive down, you could get both very quickly. I will replace the Keg with a few vials.

8 & 9.) Will fix that.

10.) Thanks, thats the image I had from the start I wanted to create, and Im pleased with the way it turned out.

11.) sorry I dont understand, what advantages would that have?

12.) Totaly agree, better lighting needed. I want to create flickering broken lights if time allows..

13.) Yes again this is something I had alot of stress with. When i built the map, i had all the sounds how i wanted them, with the waterfall sounds resonating further etc.. But when i played the map ingame, where sounds overlapped, the volumes whent all funny or just totalty silent. I messed around for 2 days, in the end, the only way to get all the sounds wroking was to not ovelap them, which made for the small radius's you have now. Strangely enough, i had the same issue with the wind effects on my GOW map. If anyone knows what the problem is,solution is, I'd like to know

Huge thanks Odedge ffor taking the time to provide this feedback, its much appreciated

[Odedge]

Huge thanks foryour intelligent and detailed feedback Odedge, its very much appreciated.

No problem man. You have a cool map going here and since I will be playing it in the future, I have to do my part to make it a bit better.

Thanks, I really did take the elements I read about in the thread (z-axis, freedom of movement, flow, risk reward) and tried to run with them, I perhaps whent too far. I dont know weather the final result will end up being unbalanced in some way when good players get on the map. But Im pretty certain its atleast fun and gives players the opportunity for lots of trick jumps, mid air frags and the like..

I don't really see any potential problems (except for the shield belt/big health issue that I mentioned). You can't worry yourself too much of what people may do in your map. Just limit them from exploiting any map building issues (hiding in static meshes and such).

Thanks, yes I agree it has potential. I had thought about conduit placement quite a bit. Im not sure I agree that the jump boot position is optimum, because the jumpboots are a majorr gameplay element in themselves and essential for control of the map. Also having the conduits so low would restrict the gameplay to the lower levels. If you come through either of the teleporters with skulls, a simple turn and jump would get you down to the conduit within a second or two. I'd rather place the conduit up higher in the level so u have to work and expose urself a little bit to get to it, in the same way you have to, to get to the timeportal jumpads.

I guess you have a point there about going through the Time Portal. In Greed, you can have more than one conduit. The biggest issue I have is if there were in that place and you missed the center, in the present day, you would take damage, but not in the water version. If this place has both conduits, then it's fair.

4.) Yes this is an issue, I've tried to make it look as if its the electricits/heat thats causeing the glow, but i agree it doesnt seem stong enough a light source. I had concidered some kind of dynamic glow, but its hard to implement around such a heavily meshed area.. I dont really know what to do here..
I used more red than would normaly be used, to make as big a contrast between the timezones as possible (going from warm-shiny to cold-grimy). If the 'present' timezone was a standalone level, I would have gone with a different, more conventional scheme.. probably blue lighting..

I think the red lighting would look fine up to the top of the pit (even with where the jump boots are). I guess you could add some actual light sources if you want to keep the red theme and have them a slightly different red. Or have a orange based color for the lights?

Forgive for not remembering, but is the "past" (the one with the red lighting in the center) map based in the day time? If not, a nice night sky (with a moon or planet at the top of the sky dome) would also contrast the day setting you have in the in the "natural" map. You could have some nice blue lighting from the sky and still have that red lighting in the pit.

7.) Yes will apply a metal material to the blocking mesh i used to hopefully generate sound.
Its very risky to get the keg, U are totaly vulnerable as you dive, but now u mention it, if u get the belt first then dive down, you could get both very quickly. I will replace the Keg with a few vials.

Not only that once you get halfway down the water, it's sort of hard to see you and you have cover once you get the health.

11.) sorry I dont understand, what advantages would that have?

I am speaking from what I think would happen. You shouldn't use the Remove SurfaceMaterial on any BSP that would occlude anything behind it. Inside the map, there are many small faces that have this material on it. I don't know if that would actually defeat the purpose since they won't occlude. On the other hand, since they are smaller BSP, maybe they won't occlude anything to begin with. You also have to think about the time it would take to calculate either.
<--- Odedge summons DGUnreal to appear from the sky!

13.) Yes again this is something I had alot of stress with. When i built the map, i had all the sounds how i wanted them, with the waterfall sounds resonating further etc.. But when i played the map ingame, where sounds overlapped, the volumes whent all funny or just totalty silent. I messed around for 2 days, in the end, the only way to get all the sounds wroking was to not ovelap them, which made for the small radius's you have now. Strangely enough, i had the same issue with the wind effects on my GOW map. If anyone knows what the problem is,solution is, I'd like to know

You mentioned "volumes" for sounds? I didn't take a look at your sound actors, but what are you using? Are you also using sound cues (they just give you more control over your sounds, but do take a bit longer to set up).

In DM-Tomac, I have some overlapping sound which work just fine. I have a large radius wind sound (a few of them actually), some medium size "humming" sound from the Necris tentacles, 2 water fall sounds with a nice size radius as well and never had any issues (aside from making sure you hear them when you should and having an appropriate sound level).

[Crayfish]

I guess you have a point there about going through the Time Portal. In Greed, you can have more than one conduit. The biggest issue I have is if there were in that place and you missed the center, in the present day, you would take damage, but not in the water version. If this place has both conduits, then it's fair.

I hadn't thought about having both in one timezone. I guess there could be balance issues with having one in each, but if the Conduits are away from the main area, it should make too much of a difference. I don't think the water area is totaly without risk also, if u fall in there u are extremely vulnerable since there is only one way out. Well it would be easy to try out different configurations eitherway :

I think the red lighting would look fine up to the top of the pit (even with where the jump boots are). I guess you could add some actual light sources if you want to keep the red theme and have them a slightly different red. Or have a orange based color for the lights?

Forgive for not remembering, but is the "past" (the one with the red lighting in the center) map based in the day time? If not, a nice night sky (with a moon or planet at the top of the sky dome) would also contrast the day setting you have in the in the "natural" map. You could have some nice blue lighting from the sky and still have that red lighting in the pit.

I like the scheme as it is, for the contrast between the timezones as i mentioned before. I would rather create the sense that there is a light source bright enough to emit all that light. I have very little time to rebuild the whole scheme since Im working on another level for MSUC atm too, and do things for GOW too. If it wasnt for time constraints I would consider maybe some more drastic action you suggested..
Actualy, just while thinking about this, I could put a bright material under the grate at the bottom of the pit. I'll give that a try

I am speaking from what I think would happen. You shouldn't use the Remove SurfaceMaterial on any BSP that would occlude anything behind it. Inside the map, there are many small faces that have this material on it. I don't know if that would actually defeat the purpose since they won't occlude. On the other hand, since they are smaller BSP, maybe they won't occlude anything to begin with. You also have to think about the time it would take to calculate either.
<--- Odedge summons DGUnreal to appear from the sky!

Oh so it acts as an occluder? I didn't know that, it would be easy to replace that material with black unlit if it uses resources. I read the tip to use remove surface on DG's site, since I thought this was best for performance.
Doesnt bsp occlude anyway is its solid?

You mentioned "volumes" for sounds? I didn't take a look at your sound actors, but what are you using? Are you also using sound cues (they just give you more control over your sounds, but do take a bit longer to set up).

No didt mean volumes, just normal radius. It where they overlap thats the prolem. Maybe it has to do with the ssame sound being used? Should I be using sound cues? What advantage would they have for me here?

Thanks alot again Odedge for taking the time to reply, it is much appreciated

[Odedge]

Oh so it acts as an occluder? I didn't know that, it would be easy to replace that material with black unlit if it uses resources. I read the tip to use remove surface on DG's site, since I thought this was best for performance.
Doesnt bsp occlude anyway is its solid?

BSP occludes, until you place that "RemoveSurfaceMaterial" on it. From what I understand, once you do this, that face won't occlude, but the other faces will. For small brushes, I don't think it's worth it. Like Anitportals in the previous editor. If it takes 10% of your current resources to render the anitportal and decide what it can occlude and you only only saving what would normally take 7% to render in the first place, it's technically not worth adding the antiportal.

While I can't say what this means with the RemoveSurfaceMaterial, it seems like you should use it on particular cases (like the outside faces of your biggest additive brush (which is what I am doing in my current map. Every other BSP face that a player doesn't see gets that basic black material with the appropriate surface property adjustments).

No didt mean volumes, just normal radius. It where they overlap thats the prolem. Maybe it has to do with the ssame sound being used?

This might be a glitch, but logic tells me that they should just be a little louder when the radius over lap.

Should I be using sound cues? What advantage would they have for me here?

I don't think they will solve your problem, but they do give you more control. You can mix sounds together, change their modulation, etc. If you are using one Sound Cue for multiple sounds, you only need to adjust the Sound Cue and it will update the others, sort of like a prefab. I just like the control you have over them, though they take a little more time to set up (15 seconds per sound?) Just remember that most of the sound packages don't come with a lot of Sound Cues, but you can use the stock wav files to create your own Sound Cues (which you just save into your map file).

Thanks alot again Odedge for taking the time to reply, it is much appreciated

No problem, it's fun to type "map talk" with other mappers.

[Crayfish]

Thanks again Odedge, ill look into all these things. Yes the overlapping soundradius issue may well be a bug, Im gonna post in the forums for some help on this.
From what I remember, DGUnreal advised to use Remove Surface material on all non-visible surfaces, tho I can't remember for sure.
Yeah maptalk is cool, wish I could advise more on Egitim, but when you're getting input from LuvStudd and the like, I don't know really what I could add

[Odedge]

From what I remember, DGUnreal advised to use Remove Surface material on all non-visible surfaces, tho I can't remember for sure.

He let me post his tips/tutorials on my site (check my signature for link), but I will post the two sections regarding the simple Unlit texture and the RemoveSurfaceMaterial.

For surfaces that will never be seen by the players but may provide occlusion capabilities, set the surface Material to be EngineMaterials.BlackUnlitMaterial. This reduces the texture rendering time of those surfaces. For example, the checkerboard DefaultMaterial is 53 instructions and 2 textures, whereas BlackUnlitMaterial is 2 instructions and 0 textures.

As a general rule, do not use CSG surface removal. A well designed map will usually not benefit from it, and there is the danger of incorrect usage which will actually remove a good occlusion surface and cause a dramatic decrease in performance. However, there are exceptions, such as the non-visible outside cube of an indoor map or maps that use high amounts of CSG that are not visible from the play area. In these cases there may be some minor improvement, however, the time and effort to test this is usually offset by simply changing the map design itself to be more optimal.

Yeah maptalk is cool, wish I could advise more on Egitim, but when you're getting input from LuvStudd and the like, I don't know really what I could add

Well, Luv_Studd helped me with the initial stages of the map, but hasn't given any feedback towards the later stages (I think he doesn't have the latest patch installed because of hard drive space limitations).

My maps are relatively polished before they hit a public beta. But even with Egitim, having mapper's eyes really help as they can be like Neo and see the "code". So if you have a free moment, feel free to give it a run through. The second beta is up and will be the last beta before going final.

[Crayfish]

Thanks for re-posting the the DG Unreal quotes, ill deffo be going thru my maps replacing the remove surface, with blackunlit where appropriate.
I did give some feedback on Egitim, I drew the MSPaint picture with the arrows and chest armor in the'DM-Gameplay' thread remember

[Odedge]

I did give some feedback on Egitim, I drew the MSPaint picture with the arrows and chest armor in the'DM-Gameplay' thread remember

Yes, forgive my forget fullness as I have been doing a lot of UT stuff so it's all one big mix of goo. I did make that change btw.

[chonglee]

Crayfish, I did a test tonight and here my thoughts on your map:
1) I like the concept. That's something I never saw before.
2) The teleporters could be more noticeable. I mean it took me a few minutes to find out how to access another zone before I touched the jumppad occasionally. In the begining I just thought that was a big nice ring for decoration.
3) I don't really like the vivid post processing effect. Too much saturation I think.
4) I like the overall layout. Very vertical and plenty of movements. But I don't like those double jump sequences. The four double jumps before I can reach the top jumppad, is kinda annoying me. I would suggest to use double jumps for changing rhythm, but not interrupt flow. Also the helmet, and the thighpad are somewhat in repetitive situations. My least favorite is the elevator level, which I can only find one normal access and the health packs are hard to reach. The elevator just cut off the path and when in combat I saw a bot touched it "carelessly" and was taken away.
5) Good work, and for me even better if you can fix those glitches.

[leakingpaint]

This looks very good. Well done. I'm busy with a map also based on the thread you started on DM gameplay. I think you hit the money with this one.

I enjoy the look a lot. Nice flow through the level.

[Kantham]

Hey crayfish, that shot looks nice from the concept. Would have rocked if you could do that theme.

[Crayfish]

Yes, forgive my forget fullness as I have been doing a lot of UT stuff so it's all one big mix of goo. I did make that change btw.

Cool cant wit to play it

This looks very good. Well done. I'm busy with a map also based on the thread you started on DM gameplay. I think you hit the money with this one.
I enjoy the look a lot. Nice flow through the level.

Cool thanks, good luck with Ur level.

Hey crayfish, that shot looks nice from the concept. Would have rocked if you could do that theme.

There are a whole bunch more pictures from that series here:
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/200..._collider.html
Some amazing pictures in there^ You could probably do something nice with clean white custom textures, its not really a look that UT3 does stock, tho it has lots of shiny metal in the LT packages.

Crayfish, I did a test tonight and here my thoughts on your map:
1) I like the concept. That's something I never saw before.
2) The teleporters could be more noticeable. I mean it took me a few minutes to find out how to access another zone before I touched the jumppad occasionally. In the begining I just thought that was a big nice ring for decoration.
3) I don't really like the vivid post processing effect. Too much saturation I think.
4) I like the overall layout. Very vertical and plenty of movements. But I don't like those double jump sequences. The four double jumps before I can reach the top jumppad, is kinda annoying me. I would suggest to use double jumps for changing rhythm, but not interrupt flow. Also the helmet, and the thighpad are somewhat in repetitive situations. My least favorite is the elevator level, which I can only find one normal access and the health packs are hard to reach. The elevator just cut off the path and when in combat I saw a bot touched it "carelessly" and was taken away.
5) Good work, and for me even better if you can fix those glitches.

1.) Thanks
2.) I thought gigantic teleporter hanging from the ceiling was pretty noticable!! :P I guess you mean like a particle effect or something like that? I did play around with several different things, including lensflares and things, but I wanted something you can clearly see though for moments when two people fly upto the teleporter from different sides.
3.) I still have alot to learn about lighting and colour and most other things, and I have a personal preffrence for a high contrast, saturated look. The present level is very bright and very red, to give it a big contrast with the future ruin level. I wouldn't have made it that intense if it wasnt for the time travel theme. for sure.
4.)There are two jumpads that go to the Time Portal, one is easy to reach (the Helmet spawn). The other one (on the highest balcony) is quickly accessable by liftjumping.

I only put in the multiple double jump route for begginer players. Also, three jumps with the Jumpboots will get you up through the portal. Your susposed to have to work a little bit to get to the upper balcony jumppad because it will land you right on top of the super items when they spawn.
I'm going to move the teleporter exit to one of the 25health platforms in the lower level. Ordinarily you have to lift jump to get to them. I might add a walkway or jumpad to get upto the reactor end one. Also you can come from 3 routes to the lower level, including jumping down the liftshaft. The lift hazard is an intended feature, and you can jump accross the gap with double jump or dodge.
I totaly agree on the thighpad and helmet jumps. I will replace those with ramps.
5.) Thanks for you feedback