UT3 - A Great game is there...

[Compiler]

It’s been a good while since the release of UT2008 and I bought this game during the same week of its release, the Special Edition Tin-Can version. I enjoy that it’ll start without the disc in the drive and the graphics look very good on my system. But I have some “issues” with this version of UT that still bother me even after the 1.3 patch.

A quick history: I bought my first true 3D graphics card because of the original Unreal game in 1998 (I paid $125 for a Voodoo1 card, 640x480x16bit color), I bought Unreal, UT, Unreal2 (which was good – I would like an Unreal 3 game), UT2003 and UT2004. Me an my clan played UT well past UT2003 because… well, UT2003 kind of sucked. The menu interface was horrible, network play was bad, it was hard on the hardware, game play wasn’t well tweaked. 70% of the clan bought UT2003, and after 30mins or so of playing some maps – we’d go back to our UT server and play for 3+ hours. Its not JUST graphics that makes a game.

The UT2004 game was SO MUCH better. The Menu GUI was very good, game play issues tweaked it included 125 maps out of the box, with GOOD MAPS too. It was compatible with UT2003 maps too, but I don’t recall many custom maps. With UT2004, I had quit playing UT Classic within a week… Onslaught was very fun and demanded team-work play, it was fast and fairly simple to play. Voice-chat on UT2004 worked good too. Look at the competing game HALO, its single player was very good (except for some maps) and its multi-player was fun – yet silly. But HALO had only 3 playable maps and many aspects of the game just plain sucked (such as all players looking exactly the same)… Halo PC was so bad, that I think that the demo version IS STILL more played than the full version.

I have about 800+ maps for UT Classic and over 500+ maps for UT2004. The previews of UT3 (an improved name over UT2007 looked great. The jeep driving through the city was amazing, the battle sequence of following Malcolm into battle looked intense with explosions and raptors flying overhead. I’ve also bought Gears of War for PC, which was fun in its own right (I thought it was a UT3 advert when I first saw it). And hope to never see something like SecuROM7 on Epic games – as I and others are boycotting all EA games. BioShock, Mirrors Edge, Crysis WarHead and others are off my list.

Now to my opinions and perhaps fact issues I have with my favorite franchise game. The single player was pretty good, the multiplayer is… not there, still. First of all, considering that UT3 has been out for over a year, the menu GUI is still the horrible mess since day one. It looks nice, but it’s so horrible to work with on a PC. The GUI has been improved in some areas, fixing some very glaring errors… like the ability to ADD a Favorites Server (there wasn’t) and as of now, its still not easy – compared to UT2004. With the 3+ years of UT2004 being out in public, dropping the ball in this area has NO GOOD excuse. Please have a screen shot or video window to allow previews of a selected map – when having dozens or hundreds of maps, most names mean nothing.

Game Types:
Renaming Onslaught to Warfare…? I thought Warfare was going to be HUGE. Instead we ended up with a bit more complicated ONS. At least we have it… as this was the MOST played game type for UT2004. Of my 500+ maps, 80% were ONS. Assault was a good game type, but not easy to customize and required a lot of work to be playable, the loss of it is kind of understandable. I still remember good times with some UT Classic Assault maps. Overall, ONS should have stayed, WAR should have been something more like Assault but without the turn-based system… and larger in scale in general.

Maps:
Remember me talking about Halo? Or how about UT2003? When Epic released a whole new game tech, the ball was dropped on this baby big time, especially with WAR maps. Total maps included with UT3 = About 35 (give or take some variants). Included with WAR was about 8 maps… out of those 8, only 3 were playable the rest were a nightmare… such as that Chinese map, as beautiful as it is – two good teams can spend 2-3 hours playing that same lame map. People would leave the server soon after it was voted on yelling “Nooooooooooo!” People beg to let it end, let someone score a single point.

UT3 should have included 75~100 maps off the bat. With its new tech, it will allow players to play many maps while non-pro designers learned the new engine and how to make good maps. UT3 became boring… with only a few playable maps. Only lately is the list growing… but with server drops, slow downloading and worse – incompatibility of support files (Still a problem since UT99?!) has made life difficult. Map Developers MUST put revisions numbers on their files.

If UT3 included 75+ maps, with at least 50 of them being very playable, it would helped UT3 market share.

Game Play & Weapons:
For the most part, I’ll give you guys a 10. The look and feel of characters, the weapons are excellent (Still miss the RazorJacks, fun for spamming a room of hidden baddies), Lighting, effects etc are good. I’d like to see a bit less color with team play. You brought back fake-death, it was handy and fun... some of us used it for tactics, or to make a quick break to the fridge or bathroom.

Communications:
Huh? UT4’s HUD was very customizable… where is here? We could move and adjust the size on the ONS/WAR map. Select the size of our HUD info, the amount of text lines for TEXT CHATS and time… something VERY BADLY missing on UT3! Text flies off the screen, requiring pressing a Function Key to view what was said. We have PCs, make these things functional.

Voice Chat just isn’t functional like UT2004. I don’t know why as it was built into UT2004 and worked well, but its not popular with UT3.

When in TEXT TYPING mode, UT2004 did it right in that the CHARACTER would ANIMATE as if talking into an ear-piece. Why not in UT3? This helps to prevent TYPE-KILLS. Or when looking at a team-mate “typing” you may pause and look out for them… but yeah, many of us have honor to know that a person is NOT in a fighting position and to NOT KILL them. Maybe shoot them in the leg

Vehicles:
They looked great, everything is an improvement. I even like the hover board which is SO handy nowadays for those times when bots or users grab VECs and speed across a big map, leaving people behind. But control functionality, I’ll give UT3 development team A BIG F!
1 – No user custom controls. Not everyone uses ASDW controls, or have the same mouse or right handed. Every VEC function NEEDS to have A USER CUSTOM SETTING.

2 – Where is the VEC Zoom Control?! Anyone who doesn’t know what I mean go to www.unreal.com and download the UT2004 demo and play Torlan ONS map. Using the mouse wheel, you can change your view of a VEC from inside to outside to wide outside to various degrees. This worked on Tanks, Raptors, Mantas, Wheeled Vecs and gun turrets.

How many of you fellow players are trying to control a Raptor – a big Grayish blob that takes up 1/3rd of the screen! If you’re tying to shoot ground targets in front, you have to guess it or angle the ship in a way that’ll allow you to SEE YOUR TARGETS! With the zoom control (with the mouse wheel), you can zoom to cockpit pit view for certain situations… and ZOOM out is important, especially for UT3 so you can see enemy flying vecs around you AND if you have fellow team-mates attached to you for a lift! There we are, flying around and discover that our team-mate with the magnetic grappling gun isn’t there… or we sit there and wait for them to type “GO!” “ready” because we can’t see behind us! The tank in UT3 has this ZOOM function to a large degree, so adding it to Raptors, Mantas and other vecs IS VERY VERY VERY EASY and SIMPLE TO DO. Epic, do it for the next release patch – please. Frustration IS not fun nor challenging.

So Epic / UT3 developers… play UT2004 and see HOW THIS IS DONE.

3 – Raptor looks like a lump of poo when destroyed. Aircraft is thin materials, re-do the damage to something more interesting.

4 – We really could use a fun flying Troop transport. I had recommended this a long time ago for UT2004 and before UT3 came out. A variant of the CICADA would do… I’ve seen a customized version that was made BIGGER and deadlier. I forgot what I called it – but my posts are on the old UT2004 forum… so lets call it Vulture… or “Rabid Hen”. The concept is that it flies like a Cicada, but because its larger – you have to WALK into the ship and there are 3 “entry” points. Pilot and Gunners Left and Right. Use the chain-gun turret attached to each side. The pilot controls the ship and can shoot like a raptor. Secondary fire = landing lights (to light up ground and to mark LZ for players to jump off to or to get picked up. The gunners can shoot down forward and back – like WWII plains or helicopters. Secondary fire can drop a chaff like a cicada is optional. Destruction of craft kills pilot, but not other players. Give them a chance to eject.

Cargo hold of craft can hold a Jeep and some players or up to 6 or so players. Players in cargo hold can SHOOT out the back with their weapons. (Imagine THAT FUN!) A raptor gets behind the Vulture and finds 3-4 guys shooting out its rear….

With 32~64 player servers and huge map abilities, especially like those seen in UT2004 in which the worlds got bigger as GPUs & CPUs got better… so far, UT3 maps feel… small and cramped… I’ve only seen a few “large maps”… when I say large for UT2004, it would honestly take about 7~10 mins to cross an entire map on foot!

Damage a Vulture can handle is the same as a Cicada.


Summary:
UT3 is kind of like Vista (not a vista war), it has many things done nicely – but it could have been more.

I don’t play UT3 much because of a low-end PC, I have a quad-core CPU and a good video card in which I play almost ALL my games in 1920x1200, including Gears of War and UT3. I’ll post about my tech issue with UT3 next.

* Menu GUI = bad, but fixable. Need more options.
* Vehicles Controls and zoom abilities = BAD, but easy to fix… like VERY easy.
* HUD options = needs improvements
* Map bugs and incompatibilities hurt. Need to educate designers to NOT expect their custom textures /meshes etcs to work. Ie: have MAP-AA require texture AA, but server has MAP-AB, but player has texture-AA which creates an error “wrong version” because Texture-AB can’t be downloaded into client. Then if player goes to another server, the problem is reversed.

The best chance for UT3 and UT4 to be successful is if the game is FUN and works well. I see nothing in UT3 that isn’t fixable. Frustration is the problem… UT2004 is still MORE fun to play than UT3 – but it looks old. UT2003 wasn’t fun to play. But what it took to fix it made all the difference in the world.

I see a post for an upcoming 2.0 patch… I look forward to it and everyone should be getting it. UT has always improved with age. I’d really like to see VEC Zoom and HUD options included. This would be the PERFECT time to get that UT2004 ZOOM functionality put in there… it requires little work and would make a 2.0 patch worthy of such a revision number.

Thanks for the good time,
Compiler

[rhiridflaidd]

(pedant mode on) Warfare is not more complicated than ONS. ONS was far, far more strategic and needed a lot more brain when you had huge maps and complicated node setups with cutoff nodes. All the orb did was allow more players to be squeezed into a small chokenode setup without breaking the map. (pedant mode off)

Otherwise, I agree with much about what you say- especially about the view from cicadas and raptors which to me is obviously flawed, but there has been no mention that this is to be fixed in the 2.0 patch...

The main theme of your post though is an appreciation of the need for random mayhem - the example you give is for a jeep to drop out of a vehichle - brilliant. In UT2004, you could load your manta with spiders or grenades to cause random chaos. It was those little moments of madness and brilliance that transforms the game and you would see things that you hadn't seen before, despite many years of playing.

The main issue with Warfare is that the orb has increased the intensity, the game is even faster in pace, and there is simply no time to mess around and do daft things that have high risk and high reward. So you can't take time out to snipe in a hellbender - it's a matter of just piling on the pressure on the other team all the time.

So for such ideas to work, the game's pace has to be slowed, and to do that you need very big maps with loads of nodes. Intensity is only good up to a certain point and I think Warfare is just a little too intense right now.

[Compiler]

About your comments on Warfare & Onslaught. I agree with you. The ORBs can change the battlefield in a second - and that has been fun and intense.

Random Mayham is what UT99 was about. Ever since UT2003, I've always hated and still hate invisble barriers... preventing players from teleporting or jumping into various areas of the maps that a designner might not have done on purpose. Like looking up in the ceiling on a great UT2004 map and YOU cant GET to that ledge because theres an INVISABLE WALL there, that has no business there. "So to prevent camping" - so what. Look at the movie "alien"... better to learn to LOOK up sometimes.

Yeah, one of my favorite tactics on UT2004 ONS is to go into an enemy base and lay a few MINES on enemy Vecs (Even my own Raptor). Then when the enemy flies off (or in my stolen Raptor - and they're laughing at me)... I push the little trigger button and POP! Smoking dead enemy falls out of the sky. Good times.

The VEC ZOOM VIEW is not on the list... but I don't see why it couldn't be added or at least to a 2.1 patch. Even to this day, when I play UT3 - I STILL TRY TO #@$(^@$# ZOOM out from my rear-end of my Raptor so I CAN SEE WHAT I NEED TO SHOOT AT!

Its this kind of stupidity that makes ME NOT WANT TO PLAY UT3. I have more fun playing Gears of War or UT2004... but I got this quad core system, a pretty good video card and I want the eye candy.

The Vulture could me modeled and made functional... I don't have that programming talent. Sorry. Look at the Cicada, Palidin, SPMA - made by UT fans, added as a bonus pack (like with UT Game of the Year Edition which included some awsome mods).

Some of my favorite UT2004 mods is the weapon that shoots out a vortex of death. Or 6 rockets at a time... intense fun.

[Transmitthis]

Totally agree with the Vehicle Zoom, what where they thinking.

[reminisce mode]
I remember on some custom UT2k4 Map, the one with a island where raptors came out of towers, I was in my Scorpion had just jumped a ledge, and done a somersault getting that great achievement announcement daredevil or something... anyway I heard that an air strike was in coming and I knew I was a target so stepped on the gas.
There I was speeding along the bumpy road having just seen the strike aircraft right overhead, the bombs dropped, while going flat out I zoomed out the mouse wheel and turned the view to the side, so the Scorpion looked like it was going across my screen.
The bombs came in, the first one dropped several feet behind me, the second even closer, then the rest one after another, all the while I was on the edge of my seat and speeding over the uneven ground with wild abandon.
I escaped with out a scratch, and have never forgot that particular incident.
In UT3 however I would not even have noticed due to the lack of scroll wheel view adjustment.

No Sticky grenades that you can attach to vehicles (except the mine) putting a few on a rapter, watching as an enemy doesn't notice and gets in, follows you and starts shooting, you wait a while not firing back, until the realization dawns on the pilot that your holding the detonator (grenade gun) then you light him up even as he's trying to escape, doing the hip thrust salute =FUN

Even just popping a few spiders under a bush and waiting till someone comes by and then targeting him and watch him run was FUN
[/reminisce mode]


UT3 is not bad, The graphics are great, but I don't play it as often or for as long as UT2K4 as it's just not as FUN

[iron12]

In UT2004, you could load your manta with spiders or grenades to cause random chaos. It was those little moments of madness and brilliance that transforms the game and you would see things that you hadn't seen before, despite many years of playing.

Yeah 4 spiders on the wings with grenades attached to them run the manta up to a node or vehicle and bail off and let them do there dirty work.

[Moloko]

About your comments on Warfare & Onslaught. I agree with you. The ORBs can change the battlefield in a second - and that has been fun and intense.

Not true , what orbs have meant is that the teams have to be almost perfectly balanced-and compounding this problem - the team switching mechanism is too awkward, so players just leave when they're not. With ONS, becoming a one man team on an otherwise noob team was possible; node under attack - time to respond. No decent player feels confident leaving the prime when on a weak team in War, because they know, the moment they do, someone will sneak in and cap it... game over(this is especially true on the larger maps).

This is probably one of the reasons ONS had a larger following, it was more forgiving in games with less than perfectly balanced teams.

[Transmitthis]

Good Point Moloko,
See my Mighty Orb the Balance Destroyer

[Henrik]

The orb is a decent idea poorly executed.

[Luseferous]

The orb is a decent idea poorly executed.

Thats pretty representetive of the game generally. Though I think the orb would be a lot better balanced with some decent maps.

When the node setup is primary-center-primary or less then the orb is just too powerful and detracts from the gamepaly. If there were some more interesting node layouts with cut offs and alternate routes the orb would become a much more interesting addition imo.

[Xyx]

UT3 should have included 75~100 maps off the bat.

It would have to be renamed to UT2010 for that.

I’ve only seen a few “large maps”… when I say large for UT2004, it would honestly take about 7~10 mins to cross an entire map on foot!

Good thing UT3 doesn't have any "large maps", then. Unless there's a power node every 100 yards, that's just a colossal waste of space and time. If I'd spawn at a node where all the vehicles were taken I'd have to suicide if I wanted to see some action in the next two minutes. An FPS game where frequent suicide gets you ahead has a serious design flaw.

Vehicles Controls and zoom abilities = BAD, but easy to fix… like VERY easy.

Very easy indeed. Check this out: Camera Control - adjust vehicle camera distance with the mouse wheel

I can but guess why Epic chose not to finish their almost-completed work on the vehicle cameras. Maybe they didn't want console players experience "mousewheel envy" towards PC players. Or maybe they thought PC players were already coddled enough.

Warfare is not more complicated than ONS.

In the same way that UT3 is not more complicated than checkers, perhaps.

Warfare has greater potential than Onslaught. The current set of maps just doesn't achieve anything close to that. Uninteresting node layouts are a map issue, not a gametype issue. Now I realize that all Warfare maps share that issue, but that still does not make it a gametype issue.

Even the inclusion of an orb in a map that can't really take it is a map issue, not a gametype issue.

The ORBs can change the battlefield in a second - and that has been fun and intense.

Or frustrating and boring, depending on your perspective.

No decent player feels confident leaving the prime when on a weak team in War, because they know, the moment they do, someone will sneak in and cap it... game over

Solved by adding another prime node... but UT3 is just as plagued with single prime node maps as UT2004 ECE was, and the one double prime node we do have is but a shadow of its predecessor.

[Compiler]

It would have to be renamed to UT2010 for that.

UT3's develop time could have allowed for more maps, even re-makes of UT99 would have been welcomed.

Good thing UT3 doesn't have any "large maps", then. Unless there's a power node every 100 yards, that's just a colossal waste of space and time.~

No, you're thinking of UT3... I'm talking about UT2004... in which ALL nodes are teleports. I DO NOT like the optional teleport stations on WAR's nodes... it does change the game, yes. So in UT2004, spawn points were the nodes, and if no VECs - you'd simply teleport to the CORE or another node.

I can but guess why Epic chose not to finish their almost-completed work on the vehicle cameras. Maybe they didn't want console players experience "mousewheel envy" towards PC players. Or maybe they thought PC players were already coddled enough.

Hmmm... Perhaps... but still considering that the PC version doesn't network play with the PS3, its a moot point. And the Menu GUI is already supposed to be changed anyways... so might as well have a usable function.

No VEC ZOOM SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS. It makes me NOT want to play UT3.

The current set of maps just doesn't achieve anything close to that. Uninteresting node layouts are a map issue, not a gametype issue. Now I realize that all Warfare maps share that issue, but that still does not make it a gametype issue.

True in some sense... like I said, I would have prefer something like WAR, but also kept the ONS. And of course, a map designer could always simply leave out the ORBs.

[Compiler]

Totally agree with the Vehicle Zoom, what where they thinking.

They were not thinking. The VEC zoom issue was a big NOTICABLE problem the first time I played the game. I would have thought that someone with a brain would have fixed the issue with the first patch. Note, while the TANK has a ZOOM ability, its only the barrel - not the VEC (Tank) itself.... so in UT2004 - you'd have two different ZOOM functions which was interesting and important for the VERY long distant shots. (Like from one end of Torlan to the other)

~realization dawns on the pilot that your holding the detonator (grenade gun) then you light him up even as he's trying to escape, doing the hip thrust salute =FUN

yes... fun fun. Even if I get bombed or have spiders chasing me - I have fun.
And yes, I taunt those enemy dead guys... I'd do it over and over again which would distract them as they'd get in the Raptor to fly to a nuke... I'd let them fly almost up there... and BOOM!... I'd laugh and laugh (on the Keyboard) and they'd sometimes curse me.

UT3 is not bad, The graphics are great, but I don't play it as often or for as long as UT2K4 as it's just not as FUN

That is how UT2003 was... I could NEVER like it. UT3 isn't nearly as bad as UT2003. But as of today, UT3 is a $15~20 game for the PC and consoles... ouch.

The fun factor has hurt re-playability... I've been playing other games because of lack of maps and players on UT3. I hate finding a good server with custom maps - and nobody to play with... grrrr.

Out of the box, there MUST be at least 20 good playable maps per game type (4~5 types) to keep people's intrests as fans make custom maps and set up servers. This is why I always found Counter strike so god-awful boring... the "elite" players following the same map tactics on the 3-5 maps.

[Sanch3z]

I'll have to agree with Xyx on every point. The maps are the #1 problem with WAR but seeing how the majority of the new "WAR community" doesnt appreciate custom maps, and I dont mean just 2k4 remakes, its really a waste of time trying to address this issue. At least WAR mapping isnt a total waste, we still have the MSU contest to map for.

[Compiler]

Thanks for the forum link to a mutator for camera control (I cant seem to find the helpful person), the big problem is that ITS NOT standard. And to a degree, it puts others in a dis-advantage. Considering that its only 23K, proves that having this ability is a VERY SIMPLE SMALL matter that can be easily fixed with version 2.0.

While driving a VEC, the mouse wheel ISN'T DOING ANYTHING ANYWAYS.... give it to everyone and improve game play. This is my #1 complaint with UT3... besides horrible map designs that look great.

- I'm about to grab some sleep so I've just downloaded the mod and will install it later.

Thanks Sanch3z for info regarding ONS 2.0. People are really like that (reading the posts on that thread) about WAR players not wanting to play with custom maps.

Geez, most WAR maps suck because they are small, cramped, not designed very well for functionality.

I'll be getting all the custom maps I can get.

[tidu]

good post, and a well supported argument I really hope this new patch gets lot of publicity, fixes the problems and attracts a lot of new (or previous) players.

[gargorias]

[COLOR="White"]

Me an my clan played UT well past UT2003 because… well, UT2003 kind of sucked. The menu interface was horrible, network play was bad, it was hard on the hardware, game play wasn’t well tweaked.

What a joke man, the menu interface was the best the UT series has seen. Network play must have been okay as there were thousands playing it and thousands of custom maps on servers, remember UT2K3 stats and of course it was hard on OLDER hardware, hardcore gamers usually update there sytems to play ther latest games, its all we live for! I will agree with gameplay issues though, weapons weren't balanced enough and flak spam was rife but I loved the boost dodge!

[Compiler]

UT2004 menu was more functional than UT2003, from what I remember.

Anyways, after downloading a 23k ini file for UT3, it added VEC-VIEW that I have been talking about... works very good... made UT3's control of vecs better and more visually interesting... see things I've not seen before. But it doesn't do any good during online game play.

So I spent 15+ minutes trying out various VECs and everything was better with this open. And PROVES that it can EASILY be activated as a "standard" in UT3.

Come on EPIC - its not like there are THOUSANDS OF die-hard anti-variable-zoom fans out there.

[JUNGLIST MOVEMENT]

Press F4 for first person view while in a vehicle!

UT3, as some would think, is like the backward farm child raised in a modern family, the blackest black sheep of the entire series.

if a horse endures the cruel vicious cycle in being buried, unearthed, beaten, then reburied only to be unearthed a while later by others, why hasn't there been any changes to stop said horse beating
I hope the titan pack will be the cure-all

[gargorias]

UT2004 menu was more functional than UT2003, from what I remember.

It was good but clicking on instant action in UT2K3 would take you back to the last gametype you were playing with the last map you played selected and that was something I immediately missed in 2K4 among other things including how the UI was faster then 2K4's.

[DrFish]

It was good but clicking on instant action in UT2K3 would take you back to the last gametype you were playing with the last map you played selected and that was something I immediately missed in 2K4 among other things including how the UI was faster then 2K4's.

That feature is coming up. It's in the patch notes.

[Compiler]

A bit of a small thingy... But a nice touch of previous Unreal games, is that cycling camera fly-bys when the game first starts up and continues until you hit a key... better than the 5 or so product-placement logos.

As some of us has checked... considering the cost of UT3 capable video cards starting at $55 (GF 8600GT - ugh) and that its well over a year old - the issues of popularity isn't hardware requirements...

There are more people still playing UT2004 and even the Demo version than UT3 for the PC.

[Compiler]

Oh...

one more big fuction should be built into UT3 and future UT games.

A CACHE Converter tool. With the original UT, some of us did it manually or used as tool. UT2004 had an excellent tool for do that. This allowed us to practice maps off-line as well as NOT HAVE TO RE-DOWNLOAD the maps at a later time.

Considering the HUGE size of todays and future maps, and how much they can effect server performance - I think its a big reason that people are not using custom maps on their servers.

A Cache converter NEEDS to be included, that will convert MAPS, Textures and any cached items into the locations they need to be! The cache converters we have now don't work well enough.

Also, some of us have partitions on out computers. With limited space on C: drive (where UT defaults the cache) and a game drive that is larger. This makes system defrags a lot faster and cleaner.

Please EPIC - include a functional way to make maps standard. because staring at a screen while it downloads a 50mb map in 2-6 minutes isn't fun... especially "hey, I downloaded this map last month" (yes, I've extended my cache expiration)

[Compiler]

I can kind of scratch one item on my list.

The HUD-MAP for vCTF/WAR can be adjusted in size in the INI file. I've made mine half the default size and its SO MUCH better.

[JUNGLIST MOVEMENT]

no, i would not like to have downloaded maps become skip caching after downloading. i dont want spend 2 minutes to delete maps i wont ever see again, espicially if those maps that are large and rarely played/voted.

[Compiler]

Thats why you have a map manager... you can check off maps you want to KEEP. if you used CacheCleaner for UT2004. Easier to convert 25 maps into normal maps in a few seconds, than re-downloading them while online... and perhaps lose a spot on a server.

[JUNGLIST MOVEMENT]

Meh I used ut2004mi.