Why the big sink was not a trick *spoilers*

[Darth Alec]

SO, the locust planned to sink Jacinto. Speculation here has been running rampant about how it might have been a trick and all that. There is one very simple solution to why it was in fact a desperate tactic, not a trick: The Hammers of Dawn.

In the original plan, while probably taking heavy casualties, the Locust would survive the Hammers. Command is linked to Jacinto right? So in the event of Jacinto sinking, command would go down with it. And without command, the Hammers would go offline.

However, if the humans knew about the big sink, command would evacuate, the hammers will remain online, and when the horde (or what's left of it) emerges, they will be hammered to hell and back.

And as such, discounting a massive oversight by the writers, the locust could simply not afford the humans pre-emptive knowledge of the sinking plans. Humanity may have Lost Jacinto, but the locust will have lost all protection against the Hammers. And without protection against the Hammers, the horde would be wiped out.

[FunkyFreshKilla]

Nice observation. Didn't even think about the hammers.

[slothalothugus]

i have to agree with you there i never would have thought of that

[locust are real]

yea good idea. but they managed to live with the hammer all the other years so why is this one setback any different?

[H0bb1tM1ndTr1x]

yea good idea. but they managed to live with the hammer all the other years so why is this one setback any different?

They were losing the fight against the Lambent. They needed to get out so they planned to get above ground and destroy the humans so they could claim the surface for themselves. Sinking Jacinto would destroy the Lambent and destroy communications with the satellites so no more hammer of dawn and no more lambent. Then they just over run the remaining gears and the Locust win.

They lived through the hammers before because the Lambent were not a major issue until recently. So they could hide underground without being attacked on the home front. That changed once the Lightmass Bomb kicked the Lambent mutation into over drive.

[Dark Shadows]

wow lol i would of never thought of that

[Darth Alec]

yea good idea. but they managed to live with the hammer all the other years so why is this one setback any different?

Thing is, they haven't "lived" with the Hammer. Up untill Gears 2, they've been living exlusivly under ground. Any major incursion would be destroyed by the Hammers. It was told in the opening scene (if you waited at the menus too long) in Gears 1 that the Humans preferred to destroy everything on the surface rather then give it to the Locust. So going above ground was generally not a good Idea unless somehow disabling the Hammers (Ink screen, indoors).

And what H0bb1tM1ndTr1x said as well.

[Sylizarus]

Um...good theory but, the hammers don't fire themselves, if everyone evacuated command no one could fire the larger lasers. And before someone uses the Hmmer of Dawn against me; the Hammer of Dawn can only drop small lasers, not the ones that destroyed the the cities.

[FunkyFreshKilla]

One would hope that as part of the command evacuation, enough needed personnel/equipment/knowledge would be moved as well to allow for the big lasers to fire. Otherwise they just gave up a huge weapon.

Just speculation though. Who knows for sure?

[pingpong]

They need the...Taco of Mass Destruction. Yes loath in it's power as you read those words. Let it run through your brain and kill off your brain cells one by one. Then you'll forfeit all your money to me. Anyways yeah what he said <.<. I likes the HoD so I really do hope command evacuated the comp's and directional stuff otherwise..... Locusts will be victorious. IN THE NAME OF RAAM!

[USRangerJohn]

Thing is, they haven't "lived" with the Hammer. Up untill Gears 2, they've been living exlusivly under ground. Any major incursion would be destroyed by the Hammers. It was told in the opening scene (if you waited at the menus too long) in Gears 1 that the Humans preferred to destroy everything on the surface rather then give it to the Locust. So going above ground was generally not a good Idea unless somehow disabling the Hammers (Ink screen, indoors).

And what H0bb1tM1ndTr1x said as well.

Thats not nessacarly true anymore. While killing the Locust with the Hammer of Dawns is still happening, the Scorched Earth strategy ended. Think of it, if the Locust army sat in Jacinto would the COG destroy all of Sera? No so the scorched Earth plan ended.

Although a better question is Why did the Queen wait for the humans to attack the hollow in order to attack Jacinto with her entire army? Wouldnt that have been easier than sinking cities and destroying Jacinto? Than the surface would have been hers regardless if Jacinto sank or not. Actually that is a good question. Why didnt she attack and over run Jacinto earlier if the Locust seemed to be able to over run Jacinto at the end?

[indefinitepit]

Perhaps the Queen intended for the COG to go into battle with the Lambent.

[Mark_Cuss]

Thats not nessacarly true anymore. While killing the Locust with the Hammer of Dawns is still happening, the Scorched Earth strategy ended. Think of it, if the Locust army sat in Jacinto would the COG destroy all of Sera? No so the scorched Earth plan ended.

Although a better question is Why did the Queen wait for the humans to attack the hollow in order to attack Jacinto with her entire army? Wouldnt that have been easier than sinking cities and destroying Jacinto? Than the surface would have been hers regardless if Jacinto sank or not. Actually that is a good question. Why didnt she attack and over run Jacinto earlier if the Locust seemed to be able to over run Jacinto at the end?

I never thought of Jacinto as being overrun in act 5, for all we know the locust we battle are the only ones there. It seems like they are doing a lot of damage because the city is sinking around them and the Cogs are busy evacuating as well as fighting them back. If the Locust had attacked normally they would have had far more resistance.

The sinking may have been a trick, but the only reason to think that is due to Adam's comment post-credits. As far as the games plot is concerned the Locusts and the Humans both wanted to sink Jacinto, but the Humans had to sink it before the Locusts escaped the hollow. That's the reason given in the game and it's good enough for me, no need to over complicate things with the Hammer of dawn theory.

[FunkyFreshKilla]

That's the reason given in the game and it's good enough for me, no need to over complicate things with the Hammer of dawn theory.

All though I agree, many people do not. Maybe this theory will align more people behind this line of thinking. Not that I have any problem with the "trick" theory, but this thread helps make it unlikely.

I also don't believe the Queen could overrun Jacinto anytime she wanted. That was humanities strong hold and although they could do it to other cities, even those near Jacinto, Jacinto itself wasn't the case. To much of a COG concentration and with their backs against the wall, it would be a last stand in a heavily defended position. Locust would take extreme losses. She was trying to distract humanity from the real objective, not attempting to actually overrun them. Basically keep your enemy preoccupied while you secretly put your real plans in motion.

I figure the above is the case since the major onslaught was underway as soon as you meet the queen and not after she found out you would sink Jacinto yourself.

** edit ** I have never seen the Locust as a more powerful force than the COG. I have always thought that in a stand up fight the COG would win hands down. The Locust seem to use more gorilla tactics/hit and run raids versus trying to fight the COG toe to toe. Not saying they aren't a formidable force, but their power seems to be projected at specific targets vs over a wide array of objectives at any given time. They probably lost a good chunk of there army when the Scorched Earth policy was in place that USRangerJohn mentioned.

[USRangerJohn]

All though I agree, many people do not. Maybe this theory will align more people behind this line of thinking. Not that I have any problem with the "trick" theory, but this thread helps make it unlikely.

I also don't believe the Queen could overrun Jacinto anytime she wanted. That was humanities strong hold and although they could do it to other cities, even those near Jacinto, Jacinto itself wasn't the case. To much of a COG concentration and with their backs against the wall, it would be a last stand in a heavily defended position. Locust would take extreme losses. She was trying to distract humanity from the real objective, not attempting to actually overrun them. Basically keep your enemy preoccupied while you secretly put your real plans in motion.

I figure the above is the case since the major onslaught was underway as soon as you meet the queen and not after she found out you would sink Jacinto yourself.

** edit ** I have never seen the Locust as a more powerful force than the COG. I have always thought that in a stand up fight the COG would win hands down. The Locust seem to use more gorilla tactics/hit and run raids versus trying to fight the COG toe to toe. Not saying they aren't a formidable force, but their power seems to be projected at specific targets vs over a wide array of objectives at any given time. They probably lost a good chunk of there army when the Scorched Earth policy was in place that USRangerJohn mentioned.

No the Locust would smash the COG. The main advantage the humans have is the fact that they control space and have Helicopters. Other than that the humans are completely screwed. Look at how badly the offensive went. If Marcus and Dom were not there the entire thing would have been smashed. The humans generally are screwed because the Locust can use hit and run tactics...with overwhelming numbers.

Also again the Locust seemed to be overrunning Jacinto. Command was almost taken out and a giant sinkhole appeared in Jacinto which was never though possible. Its obvious the Queen was keeping her main forces back but Why? It seemed likely that the Coalition would lose against the Locust onslaught.

[FunkyFreshKilla]

No the Locust would smash the COG. The main advantage the humans have is the fact that they control space and have Helicopters. Other than that the humans are completely screwed. Look at how badly the offensive went. If Marcus and Dom were not there the entire thing would have been smashed. The humans generally are screwed because the Locust can use hit and run tactics...with overwhelming numbers.

Also again the Locust seemed to be overrunning Jacinto. Command was almost taken out and a giant sinkhole appeared in Jacinto which was never though possible. Its obvious the Queen was keeping her main forces back but Why? It seemed likely that the Coalition would lose against the Locust onslaught.

We all have an opinion, I just happen to disagree with yours. In actuality we
have no idea how the offensive was going. I didn't hear anything within the game eluding to the fact that the offensive was failing. Just that it was in the wrong place before the Nexus. I don't disagree that humanity was loosing the war, but it was because they had few counters to the Locust tactics, not necessarily due to the Locust being better than them. And I did give the Locust credit for the tactics they employ. Sinking entire cities and getting the jump on soldiers from right below them is definitely an advantage. I was eluding to a stand up fight. On solid ground, one vs the other, no retreat. In that fight I believe the COG would win. Why, because the COG does control space and the air. And since you used them I will use them to, we have Marcus and the rest of Delta. They are super soldiers able to turn the tide in any battle so basically the war would be over in a few days with those guys. I think COG would win toe to toe. I saw the final attack on Jacinto as a final bid for time. Something that challenged them, but I don't think it would have been overrun in the end. But again, just my opinion.

I do have to apologize to the OP. We've kinda hijacked this thread and I will now stop.

[Darth Alec]

You do mention a good point.

However, taking Jacinto would either be impossible, or too costly for the Locust. Untill the Riftworm had awakened, the Locust never tried a full scale Jacinto assault. Their plan was to sink it. They would never have to touch the surface untill the last moment. The CoG would be destroyed before they knew what was happening.

Even though that plan failed, they had caused enough damage. With Jacinto's base weakened, they could open a sinkhole in Jacinto, previously impossible. With a Sinkhole, they could effectivly assault Jacinto, which they did.

The scorched Earth tactic is the only way the CoG could "fight" the locust. A direct assault is difficult. In fact, up untill the end of Gears 1, it was litterally impossible. Kryll would destroy any attack. They'd have a maximum of twelve hours to attack and GTFO before the kryll came.

Thats not nessacarly true anymore. While killing the Locust with the Hammer of Dawns is still happening, the Scorched Earth strategy ended. Think of it, if the Locust army sat in Jacinto would the COG destroy all of Sera? No so the scorched Earth plan ended.

As you saw in the campaign, no, the CoG would not hammer the hell out of Jacinto. For the simple fact that up untill Gears 2, it was the only safe area on the planet. They fought to protect Jacinto, because they needed to buy time. As you saw about ten minutes later, they did blow Jacinto up. They sacrifised everything to destroy their enemies. If the Locust survived, the Humans now have no production structures, no real home-base, and limited remaining forces. They're basicly screwed. But so are the Locust. That tells me that yes, if they could kill all the Locust by blowing up Jacinto they would (and did) do it.

Although a better question is Why did the Queen wait for the humans to attack the hollow in order to attack Jacinto with her entire army? Wouldnt that have been easier than sinking cities and destroying Jacinto? Than the surface would have been hers regardless if Jacinto sank or not. Actually that is a good question. Why didnt she attack and over run Jacinto earlier if the Locust seemed to be able to over run Jacinto at the end?

Because any assault would be destroyed by hammers parking around the Jacinto platue. The Locust can't drill into Jacinto, so they would have to do a frontal assault. Being in front of enemy lines would end in disaster. The locust rely on popping up behind the enemies to win, and as such would not succede in a Jacinto attack. They simply weren't able to run over Jacinto untill the Riftworm did it's thing. After that, they had a hole, and they were desperate as hell.

[locust are real]

I think they need the machines help like computers ect. to call in the hammers of dawn without using the hammer. They evaced the humans, they didnt bother taking any machinery with them cause humans were more important than the machines. So if the locust lived, very possible because we dont know how big the hollow is and the corpsers could have dug under the hollow to take in water.

[Pur3_MaYheM]

Nice observation. Didn't even think about the hammers.

agree you only use it twice during the whole game

[Shadow Dancer]

I think they need the machines help like computers ect. to call in the hammers of dawn without using the hammer. They evaced the humans, they didnt bother taking any machinery with them cause humans were more important than the machines. So if the locust lived, very possible because we dont know how big the hollow is and the corpsers could have dug under the hollow to take in water.

Well, they said pretty clearly that sinking Jacinto would flood the entire hollow...
.............

Humanity's only hope now is the rumored hidden safe-haven that Chairman Prescott was trying to deny the existence of. Wonder if it has any ties to New Hope...

[SKORGE]

Well, they said pretty clearly that sinking Jacinto would flood the entire hollow...

Actully for all we know, that could have olny been a portian of the ENTIRE HALLOW'S!. I mean it IS the Locust were talking about hear! So that means that just like the first, the Locust are still around! We {COG} probly olny hit a stronghold once again!

Humanity's only hope now is the rumored hidden safe-haven that Chairman Prescott was trying to deny the existence of. Wonder if it has any ties to New Hope..

And if the Humans {COG} can have a safe haven....{supposibly romored}, then there is a 110 precent chance that the Locust survived and have many strongholds! All of the Hallows could have not just sunk, along with the sea just like that! There has to be surviving Locust!.........Were else would the Queen flee?

I mean really a complex coliny such as the Locust Horde, dose it not seem fitting that they would have atleast one more safe haven?

Olny my thoughts though.......