What Do You Want in UT3 Expansion?

**Neillithan** · 10-21-2008, 12:25 AM

Over at BU, there was a post regarding the announcement of an expansion for UT3.

I was just curious what the community would like to see from this so called "major" expansion to UT3.

I for one would like a fully supported and complete expansion for PC. I would like a PC version easily discerning from console versions.

This includes, but is not limited to, a UI that is befitting to PCs. The interface should be fully customizable without being too cumbersome and simple without being too limited. Also, I think the UI should ditch the "console" (PS3 / Xbox360) look and feel. The UI should back to to a windows-like interface with input boxes, check boxes and drop down menus... etc.

I think UT3 should include some form of enhanced netcode, similar to that released in versions of UTCOMP for ut2004, but refined and more accurate. For a game that makes its mark as a fast paced deathmatch genre, there shouldn't be ping issues to deny players that well placed shock combo, or that flick headshot. UT3 should reclaim its lost title and offer an online that feels refined not only gameplay-wise, but connection wise. This is from my experience on PC. I don't know how good the PS3 or Xbox360 online is.

I think what turned most people off about UT3 is its bulky feel. I'm referring to movement, dodging, jumping and map design. UT3 feels more crampt than UT99. The aiming feels less responsive than UT2004, but slightly better than UT99. We all remember UT2003. It was an unrefined, fast paced PC incarnation of Unreal Championship. Epic sought to fix 2k3 by working on movement, dodging, air control, and map design. The result was UT2004. I expect the UT3 Expansion should turn out similarly. I expect the stray hairs in UT3 will be plucked and it will get a makeover.

By the time UT3 Expansion is released, people should have fast enough computers to run it at a framerate of 45fps and above. I think UT3 Exp should work on optimization. Huge levels bring my system to its knees and I have a midrange system with a bahemoth videocard. This has everything to do with polygon count and special effects. Epic needs to churn out a game that offers the best of both worlds without being too noticeable. Crysis Warhead has an example of a game that has been optimized to play on lower end pcs. Epic should take note.

I hope UT3 Expansion is supported. One reason why I quit on UT3 was because patches were delayed and too few. There are still issues that plague UT3. Holes in levels that allow you to escape. The dreadful issue that causes progress and settings to be deleted or not saved upon exiting UT3. Having the My Documents folder set to the drive letter and not a folder within, thus resulting in no save data. These are all things to scream lack of polish and completeness. A true oversight on Epic's behalf. The PC version of UT3 Expansion should be well supported, with patches released on a timely fashion.

Most of all, Epic should listen to its community and design the game for the communities best interests. UT99 has deeprooted itself as a game for the community. The reason I say this is because when a game is designed for the gamers, the gamers design for the game. UT99 and UT2004 have tons of mods, mutators, skins, custom levels and custom content. UT3 is limping by comparison. Simply put, there is no community for UT3. It's a collection of only the most devoted players and the least devoted. Epic designed a game with the business first and the gamers second. UT3 Expansion should be the result of community feedback.

As much as it pains me to make a reference to Quake 3 / Id, they are getting it right. Quake Live is the ultimate community / gamer's game. Quake Live has the potential to last a very long time and grow to enormous popularity... and it's all paid for by in game advertising. Who knows what else they've got up their sleeves. Id doesn't want to make another mistake like Quake 4. Don't get me wrong, Quake 4 was fun.. but most agree it wasn't hardcore like Quake 3 Arena. They are building a game, offered to the gamers for free... based on a long beta period. Remember the beta period of UT3? I sure don't. Why call the UT3 Demo "Beta" if Epic had no intentions of benefiting from the beta?

I hope UT3 Expansion is released during a private beta period to collect community feedback and suggestions. I hope this beta period lasts at least 6 months and I hope Epic is willing to get their game right. As a business, Epic should agree that you're trying to sell your product... and if it has no selling value, then it has no value at all.

These are just my thoughts. I want to hear what you guys think about them and I want to hear any of your thoughts. Maybe if this thread gets enough attention, Epic will take notice.

Thanks,
-Neil

P.S. UT3 Expansion should be about uniting the communities. With each new game Epic releases, the community is divided thinner. UT3 was designed for console, nobody is disputing that, but that doesn't have to be Epic's Achillies Heel. Epic should look at this new direction as an opportunity. Epic has stated that there isn't much desire for cross platform gaming. This was said during a time when Unreal was still very much exclusive to PC. Now that console is the final verdict, it's clear that the most popular game has the biggest community. I could be wrong, but isn't the Xbox 360 version of UT3 limited to 360 gamers? I say, merge the communities. Forget about the possible pitfalls and complications of cross-platform gaming and embrace it as an opportunity to bring enjoyment to any of all the platforms. Why risk killing a platform due to a lack of community when you can eliminate that factor altogether.

**nthexwn** · 10-21-2008, 12:38 AM

Well stated. I've brought up just about every point you've made here at one time or another. Nice to see them all in one place. Hopefully they'll stop taking success for granted now that UT3 has flopped and realize that their player base is more in touch with what makes this a good game than they are as a studio...

**dickbird** · 10-21-2008, 12:45 AM

more maps.

**MoonBlood** · 10-21-2008, 12:48 AM

This is what I guess will be in the expansion (which I'm guessing won't be released until after the MSUC):

A new interface.
Maybe one new gametype (Assault, maybe? Others have been covered by the community.)
Some new maps.
Best material from the MSUC (possibly including the community-made gametypes like Bombing Run/UT3Dom/etc).

Maybe the Linux/Mac clients will be released with it as well.

I really wouldn't expect fundamental changes in the gameplay/movement.

**Tailsnake** · 10-21-2008, 12:54 AM

Blah, blah, blah

**Neillithan** · 10-21-2008, 12:58 AM

and your logic is to make the game even more processor intensive?

You completely misinterpreted. I say make the game "LESS" processor intensive without sacrificing quality, hence "optimization".

**Tailsnake** · 10-21-2008, 01:08 AM

Whoops sorry

**InvadrZIM** · 10-21-2008, 02:01 AM

i would love it if it came with a whole heaping bunch of level design assets of a range of different themes and such.

very unlikely but it would be awesome, can't do much with the included content

**TheIronKnuckle** · 10-21-2008, 02:44 AM

a tournament

**INIQUITOUS** · 10-21-2008, 03:48 AM

This is their chance to fix fundamental flaws in game play and movement. ( i.e bring back dodge system/behind view etc... and most if not all game types and an actual tournament mode like ut99)..... but like other promises and hopes it will most likely not deliver. They took away everything that made ut stand out from other games...they need to put it all back in.

**Sys-X** · 10-21-2008, 04:47 AM

Very nice tl:dr, I think you just named all things that has been bugging me about ut3.

+1

**xPloSiV** · 10-21-2008, 05:18 AM

Will this expansion be free by any chance? Being an 'original part of the game that was lost in cyberspace and was found'?

Or like, a real expansion that you have to buy?

iid like...a lot of things, but these prioritize high..Assault, more maps, more UnrealEd Content, and a polished up dom/bombing run from the already existing ones..
..And new UI

**Tenebre** · 10-21-2008, 05:28 AM

What I would include in an UT3 major expansion:

- fix little bugs, polish the game
- better UI: at least as good as the UT2004 one ---> better customization of all settings: HUD, crosshairs, bots (IA), graphical settings etc...
- more charaters and factions (SKAARJS !!! )
- more maps
- more gametypes: bring back the old UT ones and why not add the "Conquest" gametype we should have to have in UT2007?

- more necris vehicles, and first and 3rd personn views in vehicles
- official webadmin, stats (ala UT2004) and anticheat
- more official mutators (and dodge jump it them)
- no more gamespy

UT3 rocks, but it can be better, thx Epic to continue to support the UT franchise!

**Eew** · 10-21-2008, 05:33 AM

Originally Posted by MoonBlood

This is what I guess will be in the expansion (which I'm guessing won't be released until after the MSUC):

Which is like what, a year away? I will be playing something else by that time...

I don't know why everyone is so happy about this news? I knew EPIC would come with a expansion (1st sell us a beta, than they want more money), I knew the 360 would get splitscreen and PS3 wouldn't (deal with MS): they are so transparant.

**dzs Awez0me** · 10-21-2008, 05:40 AM

there are man good ideas . they all should make it ..
plus i would love an gameplay option where i can make the camera leaning while strafe jumping , it would be more realistic ,. plus the weapons should also fire like that i.e., the flak or three spreading rockets wouldnt be spread from left to right they would spred in an 45 degree angle from left bootom to right top if jumpin left

**Centurion** · 10-21-2008, 06:00 AM

Originally Posted by Tenebre

What I would include in an UT3 major expansion:

- fix little bugs, polish the game
- better UI: at least as good as the UT2004 one ---> better customization of all settings: HUD, crosshairs, bots (IA), graphical settings etc...
- more charaters and factions (SKAARJS !!! )
- more maps
- more gametypes: bring back the old UT ones and why not add the "Conquest" gametype we should have to have in UT2007?

- more necris vehicles, and first and 3rd personn views in vehicles
- official webadmin, stats (ala UT2004) and anticheat
- more official mutators (and dodge jump it them)
- no more gamespy

UT3 rocks, but it can be better, thx Epic to continue to support the UT franchise!

100% agree
If you fix the UI please keep this one and make it better. Don't make an complete new one.

**Eew** · 10-21-2008, 06:04 AM

I also like the UI, but it could use some tweaks...

**PATSCRU** · 10-21-2008, 06:06 AM

Agree with OP on pretty much everything. One thing i'd like to see more of is multiplayer/community features. Things that Valve does well which foster a sense of community and competition. Things like killcams, stats, rival tracking (nemesis), easy download and storage of mods and maps, a map picked out by Valve from all the user maps that they include in their updates/expansions, etc.

Unreal tournament is a multiplayer game (hence the word 'tournament'). I don't care much for any single player features, aside from improved bot AI. Just give us an amazingly shine-polished multiplayer experience.

I also think that an improvement of netcode is more than welcome, and better server admin options too (and polish, polish, and more polish).

We love Unreal, Epic. We bought UT3 and supported you and now its up to you to give us the game that will live up to the Unreal name and the hopes of all of its fans. I can't wait.

**demoniac** · 10-21-2008, 07:57 AM

o Fix the worst bugs (and the demoguy "feature" of avoiding loading a model during playing)

o Revamp UI, remember settings between sessions

o A tournament (yeah, I'm talking about single player stuff here, team management, challenges, what we had in 2k4)

o Client-side demorec

o Ditch gamespy

o An "alias" feature (so I can fakenick ;P)

**rhiridflaidd** · 10-21-2008, 08:26 AM

Wooooo!

Right - my wishlist goes.....

1. Big, big, big maps. We have plenty of small maps - give us bigger ones.
2. Maps, maps and more maps. The top 3 in the MUSC are good enough for retail release - bundle them in as well.
3. I want the cicada's view fixed so I can fly my favourite vehichle once more.
4. Achievements - like the 360 has,
5. The ability to know the skill levels of players you are playing against online, quickly
6. The ability to create clans, and find the basic player profile of opponents from within the game
7. The facility to ban players with too high skill levels from certain servers - so that novces can have a creche facility
(I can dominate 15 novice players on a good day -and I'm not all that skilled - and I try to be nice. I hate to think what it must be like when somebody good, in a foul mood joins a server with some newbs.)
8. First player perspsective demorec - this is an absolute must if the game becomes popular, and you want to spot unusual playing styles.
9. All online characters should get a player model. If this cuts down customisation options so be it. It's better to have 30 simply customised characters than 12 customised to the max ,and the other 22 as default characters.
10. Tutorial maps for newbies to teach them vehichle, weapon tricks and aiming skills.

Most importantly..... This has to be popular. The game is amazing - it needs to get the game industry and players to re-appraise how good it is.

I am not an expert but I imagine that perhaps the best model is Crysis's expansion - cheap, and no original game needed. That way you draw in new players to the game. People undervalue what's free.

Best model for release sell it cheap via digital download - get it popular and build up the fanbase for UT4.

**Adi_INSANE_PL** · 10-21-2008, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by rhiridflaidd

7. The facility to ban players with too high skill levels from certain servers
I hate to think what it must be like when somebody good, in a foul mood joins a server with some newbs.

Its called pwnage

Ye right they should ban all good players just because they're... good o_O
Stupid idea imo

**EliT3BroTHA** · 10-21-2008, 08:45 AM

Clan Support For PS3

More Decent VCTF maps

I Dont LIKe HAVing To PrEss tHaT talk BuTToN All tH3 TiMe!

**EliT3BroTHA** · 10-21-2008, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by EliT3BroTHA

Clan Support For PS3

More Decent VCTF maps

I Dont LIKe HAVing To PrEss tHaT talk BuTToN All tH3 TiMe!

YeS EpiC CLaN SuPPoRT PleAsE!

**prograham** · 10-21-2008, 09:07 AM

New user interface

**rhiridflaidd** · 10-21-2008, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by Adi_INSANE_PL

Its called pwnage

Ye right they should ban all good players just because they're... good o_O
Stupid idea imo

Good players ban new players -

It's called PUG's.

Why is it wrong for new players to frag each other in peace?

**FioPro** · 10-21-2008, 09:45 AM

We want implemented BTA, Assault, Bombing Run and new maps/voices/announcements/models/etc. Maybe some content from MSUC...

**demoniac** · 10-21-2008, 10:05 AM

You whore! Die, bïtch! And all the other taunts that are unsuitable for kidz.

No more "Eff yeah!". Although we never had a "Fück yeah!" before, might be time to put one in to really put "eff yeah" in its place

**Fijut** · 10-21-2008, 10:09 AM

Assault.
Bombing Run.

Perhaps a Classic Map section featuring many maps from the past games.

Anti-Cheat Detection of some sort?

**gargorias** · 10-21-2008, 10:29 AM

2k4 type UI.
Load player count from map.
All settings saved and reloaded from ini file.
Real time reflections or even decent static would do.
More speed trees and foliage.
A wider variety of skies.
Parallax mapping on terrain.
Better voice sound packs (more cursing and swearing).
Etc, etc.

I would love to see the inclusion of Double Domination and Bombing Run gametypes and since the Epic mappers are so good - more maps!

**xtremexp** · 10-21-2008, 11:56 AM

I want:
Assault Mode (like int UT2004)
Unreal Engine 3.5
More VCTF Maps

Maybe add the maps of the MSUC. (with some money for the authors)

**DireWolf** · 10-21-2008, 12:13 PM

I think no adjustments will be made to the gameplay.

Personally i will be happy with the same game but with a hell of a lot of content, e.g. more character models, maps, game modes (bombing run), etc.

I wudnt care if they didnt add to the storyline, you know i hope they dont waste their time with the story, it was crap bring back the tournament!

**[uMA]Decayed** · 10-21-2008, 12:33 PM

To listen to what we want to see this time around.

**Apathy** · 10-21-2008, 01:05 PM

No dodge jump.

**Tgunz** · 10-21-2008, 01:06 PM

assault
new UI
Possible scan that would automatically adjust game settings for users with lesser machine.

**Centurion** · 10-21-2008, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by Tgunz

new UI

Will the same UI with more options do the job to? I think it would.

**Apathy** · 10-21-2008, 01:21 PM

I copied and pasted from other people's posts, then edited to fit my own opinions.

Fix little bugs, polish the game.
Better UI: Maybe a Stylized version of Uwindows.
Better customization of all settings: HUD, cross-hairs, bots (IA), being able to pick high resolution settings (2048). Being able to adjust the Post Precessing quality like you can in Gears of War PC.
More characters and factions (Malcolm and Xan)
More maps
More game types: bring back the old UT ones and why not add the "Conquest" game-type we should have to have in in the beginning?
First and 3rd person views in vehicles
Stats (ala UT2004) and anti-cheat - (lmao, yea right)
No more gamespy, or at least make it so you can choose whatever name you want while in game and only have your so called gamespy name for Stats and friends list.
The ability to know the skill levels of players you are playing against online, quickly.
First player perspective demo record. This is an absolute must if the game becomes popular, and you want to spot unusual playing styles.
Bring back enemy names. I don't know who's idea this was, but I just don't get it. I want to know who I'm trying to kill. Please!
Throw the damn demo guy down the same well as you tossed MrCrow in. Or, at least fix the bug completely so when I spend 8 minutes trying to find something that really suites me, others don't see me as that character.

**Apathy** · 10-21-2008, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by EliT3BroTHA

Clan Support For PS3

More Decent VCTF maps

I Dont LIKe HAVing To PrEss tHaT talk BuTToN All tH3 TiMe!

If you can hit the shift key randomly while trying to type, then you should have no problem with the talk button

**Tolstoy the Cat** · 10-21-2008, 01:33 PM

I play on console (PS3) which might explain some of my ideas.

1. Hold a tournament with lots of merch and server hosting as prizes, maybe cash prizes too. It would build up some interest and increase clan activity. Get demos of some of the fights and edit them into vids for dl from PSN/XBL/whatever. Some commentary (by, say, WWF guys) would make it fun.

2. Do a Burnout - release gametypes/mappacks every 3 months or so for the following year. It would keep up the interest and draw in new players too.

3. CUTAN - Comprehensive UT Archival Network. Have an in-game browser that connects to Epic servers and lets users dl maps/muts/gametypes that have been uploaded by users, built, cooked and tested by Epic software. (There's no problem for PC, but for PS3 having to copy all those files from memory sticks gets annoying and being unable to dl maps on the fly divides the community.) CUTAN could serve other purposes as well (like serving files down to clients playing in listen servers, and version control).

4. Bug fixes, new maps/characters/gametypes like everyone else says.

I don't mind if it's a new paid-for game or if they raise revenue from in game ads or whatever. I love UT and anything that helps it grow is good by me.

**Frazzled** · 10-21-2008, 01:39 PM

I would like:

A proper single player campaign, with an actual story. Why? Ever notice the trend between popular games that sell really well? I'll give a big fat hint. They have a decent single player mode, that lets the user get acquainted with the game, the controls, movement, etc, and THEN provide a stellar online component. UT's method of dumping you online leads to a chaotic, random and often unfun experience for newbies. See: Blizzard, Valve... heck go see GoW.

Ping compensation netcode. Pretty much every other online FPS uses some form of ping compensation so that the game "feels" or "plays" more like a LAN game (instagib'rs know this as zeroping). For an excellent example of this working in ut3, see UTCompv3b4 for weapons, or ABT for instagib.

Actual anti-cheat. No seriously guys, put some anti-cheat into this game so the use of trigger bots isn't so widespread.

A functional game, this game is still buggy and more prone to crash than it ought to be. For example, if downloading a map while a server switches to another map, the game will indefinitely "load" after finishing the download. Don't even get me started on demos..

A functional interface (note: people like options despite what your console focus group told you). ESPECIALLY the server browser. Why on earth can't I see who is in a server...

Go pay for the best of the Community Bonus Packs and include it with your game. These guys have made some great stuff.

A mod manager to assist in installing full mods, custom maps, gametypes, characters, etc.

See Apathy's post, all of that.

Chances are slim I'll actually see any of this. I've never understood why though, just do a simple analysis of every popular shooter sold in the past 5 years. It's the same ingredients time and time again. Solid single player followed by good online play. This isn't rocket science.

Frazzle