Two words: Bullet lag.

[Locust General]

Has it been solved? I mean the first thing i would of liked them to do was to sort out the stupendous bullet lag. Tbh the game definatly wont be as good i though if theres still the same bullet lag as in gears 1. Has there been any news on it?

[ARman]

I hope they have at least reduced it, I really wanna play against you Americans and not be at a disadvantage.... Not that it affects me

[iJeDiMinDTricKs]

Yeah... I hope they get rid of it, I mean they said they fixed Host advantage but that doesnt mean they fixed the insane Lag issues...

[AdidasStockholm]

Has it been solved? I mean the first thing i would of liked them to do was to sort out the stupendous bullet lag. Tbh the game definatly wont be as good i though if theres still the same bullet lag as in gears 1. Has there been any news on it?

If there is hideous lag then just play against bots

[iJeDiMinDTricKs]

If there is hideous lag then just play against bots

True that, like i have said many times, I plan on Playing with bots quite a bit to improve my sniper shot...

[Locust General]

I hope they have at least reduced it, I really wanna play against you Americans and not be at a disadvantage.... Not that it affects me

Im from UK

[xSINxApocalypse]

Supposed to be 30% better.
1UP interview.

[GeordiLaforge]

Thats the one thing I want to be fixed, I can deal with host advantage, but if I have to try to time my shots to where someone will be in 1.5 seconds, thats rediculous. I can't think of a single game where bullets actually come out of the gun late, atleast on your screen.

[dom000]

bullet lag really ruined Gears 1 for me after a while, and if it isn't improved in this title, i can't see myself playing it too consistently.

[Shukuzen Kiraa]

All player hosted games have lag... even COD4 has lag do not expect it to be completely gone... it will be infinitely better of course, and host advantage will not decide the outcome of games as often

[R0BBY V]

well they said that its going to be matchmaking so that may help...

[Shukuzen Kiraa]

I wonder if it will pick the best connection in the room during matchmaking for host? That would be fantastic

[bleachengdub]

think of ur lag then double it....thats an AUSSIE connection (americans quadruple ur lag even knowin U HAV NO LAG)

[R0BBY V]

I wonder if it will pick the best connection in the room during matchmaking for host? That would be fantastic

thats how it is in CoD 4.and i always get picked in that. i love my connection

[alphabetmoose]

Has it been solved? I mean the first thing i would of liked them to do was to sort out the stupendous bullet lag. Tbh the game definatly wont be as good i though if theres still the same bullet lag as in gears 1. Has there been any news on it?

They've cleaned it and made it about 30% better, and they're off loading the voice server to improve the netcode, Also they're making the connection rely on the person with the best connection in the room. So it should improve the lag ALOT. It might not be 100% gone. But In gears 1. Most of the time it took about half a second for the bullet to come out, now that's reduced.

[Chronos525]

Thats the one thing I want to be fixed, I can deal with host advantage, but if I have to try to time my shots to where someone will be in 1.5 seconds, thats rediculous. I can't think of a single game where bullets actually come out of the gun late, atleast on your screen.

You realize that IS host advantage, right? Hosts only have an advantage because their bullets have 0 ms of lag.

So what you just said is "I can deal with host advantage but not when I have to deal with host advantage!"

[< Profess >]

I Lol'd .

[ZEENOF]

Since I can't figure out how to quote... ^^ That guy up there's right. The only advantage is defendant on the upload and ping of said host. So with it choosing the best connection possible you could potentially have such a small difference in bullet lag that is wont even make a difference. I know mine makes for about a 12 millisecond between my shots as host, and the shots for others; so it is very possible for me to lose. Though I do admit that I f*cking hate to host b/c my play style involves having a lil' bit of delay. That way I can use a lot of tricks that I've learned over time.

[Madfish]

Yep, you'll always have to lead you're shots a little, but it was a bit exaggerated in Gears 1.

Lag is always there - how it is implemented client side is where developers alter. They either give you responsive shooting (you seem to hit the enemy) but you actually missed during the resolution of the shot, or they force your clientside shot to accurately represent the shot - i.e. if it missed show it as missed. The latter approach will lead to "bullet lag", but the overall outcome (whether you hit or not) will be the same.

[Auzzie Legend]

think of ur lag then double it....thats an AUSSIE connection (americans quadruple ur lag even knowin U HAV NO LAG)

Exactly right.

Lag for American's is nothing, try playing in Australia against other countries... it is pathetic.

They can't really 'fix' lag. It's always around, bad lag or just a little. You can't have a perfect connection unless you're hosting or playing on the same xbox.

[Omega360x]

Hate to break it to you guys but there will always be some sort of lag, big or small in every online game...and yes even Halo had it and CoD4 and so on an so fourth.

[RouleBoule]

By optimising the connection they could share things like voice chat over the connections and use the best connection in the game for the player movements etc. Apparently thats what they are doing so it should work well.

Gears 1 is not as bad as people make it out to be.

[Bizkitdoh]

there will ALWAYS be lag, no matter what, but im positive they have reduced it, at least a little.

[Sulfuric]

Even if they upload the voice server and pick the player with the best connection it won't affect the bullet lag, but it will make it so that your shots connect like they should more of the time.

The ONLY way to completely eliminate any bullet lag is to implement some sort of Client-Side Hit-Detection. Think Halo 3, CoD4, Shadowrun....they all use some sort of CSHD. It will still take about a quarter of a second for your enemy to die, but you won't have to lead your shots.

[C. Freeman]

Even if they upload the voice server and pick the player with the best connection it won't affect the bullet lag, but it will make it so that your shots connect like they should more of the time.

The ONLY way to completely eliminate any bullet lag is to implement some sort of Client-Side Hit-Detection. Think Halo 3, CoD4, Shadowrun....they all use some sort of CSHD. It will still take about a quarter of a second for your enemy to die, but you won't have to lead your shots.

True, but the problem will then be "cover lag," where you think you make it to safety only to die behind cover because your xbox has just been informed that you were shot in the process of taking cover. Personally, I would prefer bullet lag and just lead my shots rather than not knowing if I'm being shot.

[BattleTATT]

im no software engineer but here is what ive came too understand about the two.

client side hit detection: cod 4 halo 3

the information and actions of firing.
when you apply the fire action..all that follows, the sound, the muzzle flash, the bullets shells ejecting from the gun, the bullets leaving the barrel to travel in a desired direction, the bullets hitting the point of aim,the bullet holes from the impact on a texture. all information depending on the speed of internet, the level of ping, and the distance from client to client, is passed though us the client and gives a more desired reaction at one giving moment.

server side hit detection: gears of war, gears of war 2?

all of the above, the information must travel to the host/server. and depending on the speed of your internet, the level of ping, and the distance of the location of the server to yourself...causes a less than desired reaction within a giving moment.

we have to make corrections by leading the enemies actions. Judging there next move and compensating due to the time it will take for the information to travel to that of the server thats even if the shots register at a rate of speed that is present to that of a host connection.

the reason lan is so effective is because the information is right there, all in the same network.

i dont know. epic mave have a few tricks up their selves to help server side hit detection but what ive read about it...causes inconsistancies of bullet travel and impact.

the only negative ive read about client side hit detection is when next to cover.
when you are taking fire and go around cover to avaid fire, it sometimes will not register to the client being fired upon until they are behind the wall....killing you, but the shots do register on your giving location at the giving time you are being fired upon. With lag it just takes a little more time to get the information to you.

network/software engineers have fought over this for years. there is negatives to both sides and is from the history of both, they have proven to be less effective than lan.

I have heard that epic is using the server side hit detection again.
if i understand things correctly, they intend to bring clients up to a higher level than it was in gears 1. To do this they are planning to optimize the host connection by releaving the load that was present for the host in the first game. Off loading the voice chat is a big improvement. Choosing the best connections in the room/netcode, is another big improvement. they want to bring us as close to the host connection as possible, not bring the host down to our level of play like client side hit detection does.
if they acheive this....it will be close to lan. but like in all internet play there will be lag

and what pisses me off most in when you are playing someone that is searching the internet...this brings playablity down! xboxlive and gameplay uses enough bandwidth as it is. Not to mention wireless adapters. they are junk. direct connect is the only way to play!

[Ik0n]

Has it been solved? I mean the first thing i would of liked them to do was to sort out the stupendous bullet lag. Tbh the game definatly wont be as good i though if theres still the same bullet lag as in gears 1. Has there been any news on it?

They have said numerous times that they are working on this problem as it was one of the main complaints in Gears 1. I'm not exactly sure but I think someone said it would be fixed by about 80% or something to that effect.

[AdidasStockholm]

They have said numerous times that they are working on this problem as it was one of the main complaints in Gears 1. I'm not exactly sure but I think someone said it would be fixed by about 80% or something to that effect.

I think it was 30% to be honest.

[Ik0n]

I think it was 30% to be honest.

It might have been, but it's better than 0%. :\

[Locust General]

So why cant they use CSHD?

[Ik0n]

So why cant they use CSHD?

How much time would that take? I'm not exactly a video game programmer so I'm just wondering. I'm assuming it would take a long time considering they would have to recode the whole online experience right?

[BattleTATT]

How much time would that take? I'm not exactly a video game programmer so I'm just wondering. I'm assuming it would take a long time considering they would have to recode the whole online experience right?

the problem with the first gears is that it was underdeveloped, so to speak. we almost didnt get a mp version of the game. it wasnt tweeks and optimized like gears 2 will be! give it some time....they are the experts, and pay top dollar to have experts on there team...bullet lag and the crappy inconsistancies that impaled us in the past, could very well be just that "past"

i heard in the 30% range in like may or june(overall online exp)...you see the mp is always the last part of the game to be developed, tweeked etc. cliff stated in an interview that the shotgun inconsistances is gone...not better, gone, and that is one of the biggest problems with gears 1.

my guess is even with server side hit detection and all the changes they have made...and for one we wont know who the host really is....and i doubt it will show through gameplay as much as the first. 30% three months ago...i would have to guess 40 to 50 by know....and thats a major improvment.

[stickybum steve]

Yeah i agree with BattleATT, i know in a multplayer game they are joining everyones servers into one big one so no one has a better conection than any1 else the bullet lag may still be there but to what it was and what it will be will be a huge differance, oh and im glad host advantage has gone that was well annoying.

[< Profess >]

What do you mean your glad it's gone? Not a single one of us has played Gears2 over LIVE. For all we know it could be worse than last time.

What Cliffy said about a 30% reduction is being quoted too much as a hard number to work with. Does no one even wonder what that is based off?

He could be pulling numbers out his ass, and even if he's not... 30% better than what?

30% better than an awful 400ping server,
or 30% better than the best host you've ever played on?

---

I have no doubt there will be improvements, but I think people are being unrealistic with their expectations.

If an across the board improvement of 30% (to the average game server) is what we're getting then that still means God-host and bullet-lag.

'I told you so' coming November 8th.

[stickybum steve]

well when it comes from cliffy b himself that there is no host advantage im sure he ain't lying. nov 7th in england

[BattleTATT]

im not setting high expectations....lan is the only way to get rid of online bs. but epic knows this is the number one complaint! you have to consider that the mp version of gears 1 was almost ditched....that says alot, and to me says we got a bottom of the barrel mp version of this game. as long as there is peir to peir we will have a host, but the trick is to minimize the effects for gameplay and i think epic has been and is hard at work to give us a much better online experience. they would be stupid not too. campaigns are nice but the true playability and long time sucess of any game is most definitely mutiplayer modes. halo included. it would have never made it as far as it did with just a story.

moer and more people buy games that have that xboxlive at the top. i know i very rarely buy a game that does not have it. renting is so much cheaper these days.....and well as a developer that want people to buy these games.

epic's biggest challenge was not the story...it is to give us a better mp game.

[< Profess >]

well when it comes from cliffy b himself that there is no host advantage im sure he ain't lying. nov 7th in england

Now try and quote him saying that.

Also, November 8th = the day after release... I'm not going to say I told you so if I haven't played the MP yet now am I?

[stickybum steve]

but the campaign and story is deeper this time, the multiplayer has moved on by what ive seen and thats videos via mobile phones, and they look good and competitive which is what we want, i dont want host advantage as you get a player who is not skillful and has a crap connection killing everyone and thinks he is good. at the end of the day this 30% business is just a number your right!! but it could be more but i no for certain it wont get any worst than GOW1

[stickybum steve]

go look at some videos he talks about it with a dark coloured lad

[< Profess >]

Yea I know, he says something to the effect of 'we are addressing host advantage', along with his 30% optimizations comment.

Addressing doesn't = eliminating in my books. Addressing reads like 'reducing/improving'.