The Grenade Issue

[Birdy Man Bird]

Ok, so here are my gripes with the development of the new grenade features.

Why would Epic pull a Bungie and increase the annoyance of grenade tagging? It's arguably the most obnoxious and annoying way to die in Gears 1 why would they want to up it? That's pulling a Bungie move.

Being able to tag any of the three grenades on to a wall for proximity explosion isn't a good idea. I can already see it being a ridiculous way to die and people will definitely over use it.

Only the smoke grenade should have this feature. Doing that will actually make the grenade more useful then it currently is while not overpowering the use of the other grenades.

-Explosion grenade should only be allowed to be stuck like it currently is to an opponent
-Smoke grenade should only be allowed to stick to walls, and it should NOT have a daze feature when regularly thrown. The use of the grenades is to prevent people from seeing you, and allowing you to charge through thte smoke at a sniper, etc.
-Gas grenade should only be allowed to be thrown. Period.

Giving the grenades too much power will take away from the essence of gears. Gears is one of those shooters, if not one of the only ones that doesn't rely on a lot of grenade+shot combo like Halo. It should stay that way.

Please Epic, Don't Pull a Bungie and make everything that was obnoxious about the previous game upped while taking what made it great and downgrading it.

[OverKill]

i think giving each grenade a set way of using it complicates the game too much

i'll be honest though, i don't see the point of having a poison grenade when they gave the smoke grenade the ability to stun/kock-down people

the poison one just feels like a needless add-on, just like the spike nades in Halo 3 (to borrow from your example)

we'll see how it plays out, but i can definitely see sticking grenades to walls be over-used and i can also envision teams spamming smoke grenades to knock opponents over, which could get annoying

[< Profess >]

I think if anything, tagging has been down graded, did anyone notice in the recent MP footage how tagging was achieved by throwing the grenade underarm onto an opponent. Hopefully no more 180 degree tag-attacks.

So I like that,

As for the wall sticking, I like the idea of that with gas and smoke grenades, but I'm with you on the Frag placement. It sounds over powered.

At least with smoke and gas it's not instantly lethal, with smokes it's a good way of covering a defenders rear (same with gas really) but it still needs said players to actually deal with those flanking enemies.

[Birdy Man Bird]

i think giving each grenade a set way of using it complicates the game too much

i'll be honest though, i don't see the point of having a poison grenade when they gave the smoke grenade the ability to stun/kock-down people

the poison one just feels like a needless add-on, just like the spike nades in Halo 3 (to borrow from your example)

we'll see how it plays out, but i can definitely see sticking grenades to walls be over-used and i can also envision teams spamming smoke grenades to knock opponents over, which could get annoying

I figured that would have been the first opposing complaint to my idea- the complication issue.

The thing is it wouldn't be complicated if each grenade looked different. for example, if the gas grenade were circular vials which would break like glass when thrown.

I just hope that Epic will make the grenades scarce like they are now. One set of grenades for each map and have a decent length for respawn.

I just don't know about the smoke grenade, it seems far too overpowered now, especially since you start out with one.

[Omega360x]

This is how I think they should have made all the gnades work.

Exploding nades - stick to walls but not proximity explosion, you gotta shoot them to trigger the explosion.

Poison nades - they are awesome just the way they are. Just don't make them proximity triggered.

Smoke nades - Good idea but the knock down is way to over powered. Maybe just blurr anyone's vision within the proximity of the smoke. No Knock Down please!!

[JAGX]

Wait til' you play the game man.

[Eternalnow]

Wait til' you play the game man.

+1.

Someone who speaks sense. NO ONE knows how the grenades will play out in the final version of this game, being released in November.

I personally think that grenade placement on walls is an excellent idea.

[SoaNaDe]

Ok, so here are my gripes with the development of the new grenade features.

Why would Epic pull a Bungie and increase the annoyance of grenade tagging? It's arguably the most obnoxious and annoying way to die in Gears 1 why would they want to up it? That's pulling a Bungie move.

Being able to tag any of the three grenades on to a wall for proximity explosion isn't a good idea. I can already see it being a ridiculous way to die and people will definitely over use it.

Only the smoke grenade should have this feature. Doing that will actually make the grenade more useful then it currently is while not overpowering the use of the other grenades.

-Explosion grenade should only be allowed to be stuck like it currently is to an opponent
-Smoke grenade should only be allowed to stick to walls, and it should NOT have a daze feature when regularly thrown. The use of the grenades is to prevent people from seeing you, and allowing you to charge through thte smoke at a sniper, etc.
-Gas grenade should only be allowed to be thrown. Period.

Giving the grenades too much power will take away from the essence of gears. Gears is one of those shooters, if not one of the only ones that doesn't rely on a lot of grenade+shot combo like Halo. It should stay that way.

Please Epic, Don't Pull a Bungie and make everything that was obnoxious about the previous game upped while taking what made it great and downgrading it.

I actually agree with this. I'm not usually one to argue with Epic's choices too much, but I 100% agree with the ways you said each grenade should be implemented.

[FF Retalliation xX]

theres 2 frag grenades / poison grenades per round, how will that be over used.

tagging is one of the features that sets gears of war appart from every other shooter, along with chainsawing, i hate when people say chainsaw n00b trying to get people to not use the chainsaw, if it wasnt in the game wed be playing GRAW in space.


with the grenades the best you could do is barricade yourself into the sniper tower on gridlock, and hopefully if you shoot the grenade it explodes meaning tactical placement will be needed.

but i cant agree with you at all, one smoke grenade per person, and to work it has to be a really well placed grenade, although it would of been better to use the grenade stun not falling over.

[Sugartits]

Smoke grenade looks a little overpowered and seems like it is a cheap way to get a kill because they get knocked down.

[< Profess >]

Though there's nothing to say it's detonation couldn't blow you off into relative safety.
(however ridiculous that sounds)

It's just a knockdown after-all, it's still up to the placing team to capitalize on it.
Something that won't be easy if players are smart enough not to 4 man rush within 2ft of one another.

[Birdy Man Bird]

all of this just seems to promote more standoff/set back kind of gameplay.

[Evil Twin]

I'm curious, does the smoke grenade still knock you down if you are in cover?

Does anyone know that?

[DUBL DUECE]

I'm curious, does the smoke grenade still knock you down if you are in cover?

Does anyone know that?

From the videos and articles I have seen/read it has not mentioned that. they may give us more info or we may have to wait until the game comes out.

[Crusader1099]

i think giving each grenade a set way of using it complicates the game too much

i'll be honest though, i don't see the point of having a poison grenade when they gave the smoke grenade the ability to stun/kock-down people

the poison one just feels like a needless add-on, just like the spike nades in Halo 3 (to borrow from your example)

we'll see how it plays out, but i can definitely see sticking grenades to walls be over-used and i can also envision teams spamming smoke grenades to knock opponents over, which could get annoying

But you can't run through a poison grenade smoke cloud where you can run through the smoke grenades, just not the initial blast, that's all.

[OverKill]

But you can't run through a poison grenade smoke cloud where you can run through the smoke grenades, just not the initial blast, that's all.

ya i know

i just don't really see the point, especially when you juice up the other frags and give them so much more versatility

[Crusader1099]

ya i know

i just don't really see the point, especially when you juice up the other frags and give them so much more versatility

You would use the poison grenade, like CliffyB said, to block off an area, force and enemy into a bottle neck. In my opinion, that makes it very useful, unless they wait it out. OMG, you know what would be cool, I get a team together, and we all get shields, and we all walk together or in a turtle, lol, gotta try that.

[SHOGUN 47]

You would use the poison grenade, like CliffyB said, to block off an area, force and enemy into a bottle neck. In my opinion, that makes it very useful, unless they wait it out. OMG, you know what would be cool, I get a team together, and we all get shields, and we all walk together or in a turtle, lol, gotta try that.

That sounds almost perfect, but I think the Shields are going to be set around the map like a weapon spawn point. So people will have to wait their turn to get one, and by the time they do they are dead.

[Crusader1099]

That sounds almost perfect, but I think the Shields are going to be set around the map like a weapon spawn point. So people will have to wait their turn to get one, and by the time they do they are dead.

I know, I know, and they may not respawn considering theirs no ammo attatched to them, so maybe there's a limited amount per map, in this case, I do agree that their should be custom games, just so I can try this, at least once

[OverKill]

You would use the poison grenade, like CliffyB said, to block off an area, force and enemy into a bottle neck. In my opinion, that makes it very useful, unless they wait it out. OMG, you know what would be cool, I get a team together, and we all get shields, and we all walk together or in a turtle, lol, gotta try that.

like in a phalanx? that would be funny

[< Profess >]

Can't see it working too well against some Gears style archery.

[Crusader1099]

Can't see it working too well against some Gears style archery.

TORQUE BOW, OMG!!!! We could do a whole TORQUE BOW Team vs Shields Team! Would the shields get destroyed from Torque bow or boomshot though or protect you?

[gatorxx313]

Smoke grenade looks a little overpowered and seems like it is a cheap way to get a kill because they get knocked down.

No cheaper than a 2 piece or a wall bounce though. Honestly, like people say... just wait for the game to come out. If you don't think they're smart enough to limit the use of these things so they are not over used... I think you'll get a good dose of reality when it does come out.

[Crusader1099]

I think they work perfectly and that everyone should stop there complaining. The fact is you shouldn't run into a building with your shotgun to kill someone with out being more tactical about the situation. That's what Epic is trying to do, not make it a shotgun fest. I'm going to turn it into a 300 movie rip off, SPARTANS!!!!!!! MAN YOUR SHIELD BOYS!!!!

[OverKill]

I think they work perfectly and that everyone should stop there complaining. The fact is you shouldn't run into a building with your shotgun to kill someone with out being more tactical about the situation. That's what Epic is trying to do, not make it a shotgun fest. I'm going to turn it into a 300 movie rip off, SPARTANS!!!!!!! MAN YOUR SHIELD BOYS!!!!

there's some Machinima for people

make us a recreation of the Greco-Persian War with GoW2 shields and Torque Bows and give me credit

[Crusader1099]

Give you credit? I heard someone mention 300 stlye working together going from cover to cover with shotguns, but nothing to do with shields in phalanxs, you said phalanxs, but I was saying that just with out name. I will definitly do this, I'm quite the filmmaker myself anyway.

[OverKill]

Give you credit? I heard someone mention 300 stlye working together going from cover to cover with shotguns, but nothing to do with shields in phalanxs, you said phalanxs, but I was saying that just with out name. I will definitly do this, I'm quite the filmmaker myself anyway.

partial credit?

[Crusader1099]

partial credit?

Fine, partial credit for giving me the idea to make a machinima, I hope they have the ability to record video though, and a free cam like Halo, other then that I won't do it with a guy using a pistol where you can clearly see the sight and tip of pistol. For this reason I want theatre mode, and forge.

[SofaKingGnarly]

How come people have problems with grenades in video games? I love them. I don't have a fit about dieing cause I get kill with them.


I for one welcome are new Grenade Overlords.

[Birdy Man Bird]

No cheaper than a 2 piece or a wall bounce though. Honestly, like people say... just wait for the game to come out. If you don't think they're smart enough to limit the use of these things so they are not over used... I think you'll get a good dose of reality when it does come out.

What's cheap about a two piece? Most two pieces are done either from the side or from the back and only because the shotgun is not very trustworthy.

If someone is getting that close to you in the first place you deserve to die. It's so hilarious to me when people complain about me two piecing them in the back, like it's my fault they had their back turned and did not see me coming.

What they want me to do is either try to pull my chainsaw out (which would make noise and then they could hear me) or attempt a shotty to the back of the skull which could easily not work and then they have a chance of turning around and blowing me away with one shot.


So funny.

[julianwelton]

What I wanted them to do with Grenades is fix them so that people are not safe if they are against a wall that is stupid. I also wanted them to up the kill radius because like I always say while playing Gears "Grenades have a two inch kill radius and a thirty foot stun radius". The only thing I agree with you on is frags not being able to be stuck on walls because that will promote camping, but smokes just send the enemy flying and poison will kill anything that tries to go through which isn't bad if your trying to make someone come through a specific doorway.

[Eternalnow]

What I wanted them to do with Grenades is fix them so that people are not safe if they are against a wall that is stupid. I also wanted them to up the kill radius because like I always say while playing Gears "Grenades have a two inch kill radius and a thirty foot stun radius". The only thing I agree with you on is frags not being able to be stuck on walls because that will promote camping, but smokes just send the enemy flying and poison will kill anything that tries to go through which isn't bad if your trying to make someone come through a specific doorway.

Camping has been an issue for as long as I can remember, so being able to stick grenades on walls will only excerbate something that is already happening. I'm excited to try it out too...

[Hublah]

What's up with all the hate on another developer from the thread starter? It's not pertinent or productive to the point and hating on other developers doesn't make you cool or seem more loyal, you just look like ignorant and angsty.

From the MP videos I've seen the grenades seem to be in just the place they need to be. I thought it was really cool and promoted strategy. Now you have to watch where you go and be careful about rushing a position. And regarding the smoke, you have to throw it dead on and they have to be right next to it when it goes off for them to fall. I personally think it's a really cool way to make the starting grenades worth something more.

Also, the poison grenade is not a useless add-on. It's the perfect way to bottleneck your opponent or take away an escape route, an entrance, so on. Not to mention it's the perfect way to force a camper to leave their nest.

Lastly, we can't really say until we are playing the final version of the game. So let's not be quick to assume.

[Locust General]

Remember, you dont start with frags. Its 1 smoke. Also like the guy said above me you have to be really close for it to stun you. So dont worry, its a cool addition

[Wisdom Thumbs]

You would use the poison grenade, like CliffyB said, to block off an area, force and enemy into a bottle neck. In my opinion, that makes it very useful, unless they wait it out. OMG, you know what would be cool, I get a team together, and we all get shields, and we all walk together or in a turtle, lol, gotta try that.

lolzomgroflolmao Do you have ANY idea what you've just DONE? Do you have any idea how many GEARS OF WAR 300 machinimas you've just ****ted out? OMG! So funny, can't wait.

...On topic, I think the grenade down is a perfect edition. I felt like the smoke grenade was as weak was paper in Gears 1, because you can easily see through it 80% of the time, and it only lasts like thirty seconds. This results in you having to wait for the smoke to build up, then run in there for a five second window, and get back out before the smoke disappates a tiny fraction and reveals you clomping around blindly.

Now you can throw a smoke into a crowded room and blast the **** out of the ragdolls that come thumping down the stairs or screaming out of the windows.

lol, just had an idea.

MARCUS: madness? This... is... SPARTA! *kick*

-Marcus curb-stomps Locust, who then slides back into Emergence-Hole-

Or maybe a whole team has shields...

PLAYER 1: dude we are so like invincible because we have the ancient, tried-and-true phalanx on our side. It's never been defeated!

PLAYER 2: is that a smoke grenade?

PLAYER 4: wuh... ****!

bang

LOCUST 1: lolzomg the humanity

LOCUST 2: this... is... EPIC!

[Birdy Man Bird]

What's up with all the hate on another developer from the thread starter? It's not pertinent or productive to the point and hating on other developers doesn't make you cool or seem more loyal, you just look like ignorant and angsty.

From the MP videos I've seen the grenades seem to be in just the place they need to be. I thought it was really cool and promoted strategy. Now you have to watch where you go and be careful about rushing a position. And regarding the smoke, you have to throw it dead on and they have to be right next to it when it goes off for them to fall. I personally think it's a really cool way to make the starting grenades worth something more.

Also, the poison grenade is not a useless add-on. It's the perfect way to bottleneck your opponent or take away an escape route, an entrance, so on. Not to mention it's the perfect way to force a camper to leave their nest.

Lastly, we can't really say until we are playing the final version of the game. So let's not be quick to assume.

Or it's going to resort to a lot of cheap kills and annoyances. Do you not remember the ridiculous nature of the first grenade tagging ability? Annoying cheap ways to die never = fun. And you can say well "thats why the active sniping is being removed" yes, but see not everyoen can do that. Everyone can stick a grenade to a wall, and tag someone etc.

What a lot of people in here complain about isn't the effectiveness of hard weapons, it's their inability to use those weapons to their benefit. What they want is easier weapons to use in order to achieve the same type of kill count.

[Jesterdance]

Is it possible to destory wall-grenades?

Off-Topic: MP-Shieldmatches? "300" Fanmovie anyone?

[OverKill]

Is it possible to destory wall-grenades?

Off-Topic: MP-Shieldmatches? "300" Fanmovie anyone?

i assume if you shoot a wall-grenade it would go off (most people in the MP vids of Gears 2 were shooting the nades to set them off)

[WaldoRtk7]

Wisdom just jacked my idea! OH well I picture the shield thing happening... a lot...

But As to the grenades, ever change Epic has made or added seems to promoting the use of tactics. Which is a god send for me, because Gears has completely become void of them. Grenades are just adding another dynamic to the gameplay.

[xSINxApocalypse]

I wonder if you threw a grenade by another grenade if it would detionate?
Plus, Why does everone say two-piecing or wall bouncing is "cheap"? It's a way to kill someone, the only thing that's cheap in GOW is downing someone and then having the whole team rape them. Everything else is fair game.

Grenades are gonna be awesome!
Good job Epic.