Better to be a realist than a video game idealist
I hope Epic is impressed by the number of people who came out to support an alternative revenue stream (one that allows them to support online play, for years beyond UT3's release).
PLEASE IMPLEMENT ASAP AND GET Dr.SiN an INTERN
I go out of my way to disable advertising in every game that will let me, and I've also blocked a few "ad-sites" that are used by some other games I've got.
Adverts are a waste of my time. And time is my most precious resource. Which is one of the reasons why I don't watch TV.
How about a UT Character singing "Trojan Man" while he slaps on a rubber???
Or a sweet young thing asking "Do you feel FRESH today"???
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Why stop with adverts there? Why not put adverts all over this site. And adverts in the menu. How about adverts for loading screens? And how about the taunts support going to McDonalds and buying Pepsi?
Infact, I think each weapon should be covered in big-name labels and everything you fire is some sort of advertisment.
This thread is so depressing. Slowly losing faith in humanity......
Plz no make mainstream game. No to advertisements.
I imagine how bad would it look: "Axe effect" of "Pepsi" adverts or, in localised russian version:
"Квас - не кола, пей Николу!"
Cover my back — I'm cooking PELMENI!
Advertising in game = bad game.
Advertisements in game makes about as much sense as having an audio ad in the middle of a song. It's stupid plain and simple. I laugh at all the people who say the following, I'll just ignore the ads, ads don't bother me, and we will benefit from ads in game. I work in advertising and let me say this, we are smarter than you. Ads will be noticed, they will affect game play, and the revenue generated may or may not get you more content, thats not for you to decide.
For those who can't see past "Ads on billboards are no big deal" go to bunnyfoot's site and see what they have to offer you and then tool around IGA's site and see if they really have the interest of the gamer at heart. Really I think that anyone who calls themselves a gamer and doesn't think in-game adverts are detrimental has never even looked through those sites.
I'm really amazed how some people just roll over so easily on this issue, it's just sad.
I don't get what the big deal is either. If it's brings them sufficient revenue that they're willing to show more <3 for UT3 than they did 2k4, I say go for it. Be nice to not feel paranoid about servers and wondering if that guy who keeps snap hitscanning me around corners is just an aliased GOOD player or someone dumb enough to shell out $$ to inflate their egos (and kill the fun factor of the game with an axe in the process).
Ok, If you are a true gamer, and are truly pationate about the UT series, then I believe you could understand how advertising could help out the gaming.
-Lower Cost for the actualy game
This alone is going to increase the number of copies sold... and will go hand in hand with reducing piracy
-More Buyer's, Larger Community
Having a Larger community will lead to more views towards the adverts which will result in larger revenue towards epic.
-More Game Updates
For any game to be truly long-lasting and withhold a strong community, updates need to be made, and fresh content also has to be released. When I mean updates, it could be something small like adding in a few maps, or something big like adding a new race of characters or a change in physics to balance the weapons out.
- Distracting Ads
Some ads in-game may be distracting, and can cause gameflow to change.
Some players hate ads, and will not buy the game just because there will be ad placement.
Honestly guys, you really have two options here:
A.) You say no to advertisment, Epic does not implement ads, and 1-2 year from release, epic abandons UT3 due to lack of funds, and UT3 will remain the same as it was from release leaving all sorts of glitches uncorrected and leaving many game modes from reaching it's potential
B.) You say yes to advertisment, Epic implements ads into the game, and 6-8 years from release, UT3 will be still receiving patches, cheat protection and bonus packs to keep fresh content into the game.
Honestly...How ****ing bad can an advertisment be? Most ads is are just some dumb stupid logo that no one even pay attention too...Sometimes players just screw around in the server and will stop to notice the advertisment.
The "lower cost for the game" argument is not really valid. If you aren't willing to buy the gasme at its original price, feel free to wait a few months until thze price has dropped to 10 bucks or so.
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please back this up with a commitment in development man hours...Originally Posted by Jeff Morris
people have been selling stuff for $65 since xmas of 05 without being stopped...
Epic has always supported their games for years after the product release, from updating the version of the game with bugfixes and new features, to bonus packs with more maps or even gametypes included. They also support the Unreal community through various ways such as contests for map/mod creation.
Revenue gained from advertising may not neccessarily go towards product support, or extend the life of a game.
I'm not against something ala Steam on the front-end, as that can have some value, but if it's going to bork the actual gameplay itself, or in-game advertisements are obtrusive - then I don't want it. Epic is going to have to tow the line here, because the vast majority of their followers are not going to like having a game visually polluted or technically corrupted by advertising. And I suspect the developers at Epic themselves don't want a game that way.
So let's wait it out see what Epic does. We've heard little other than they are coordinating with Gamespy. Something they've always done.
Advertising is the bane of humanity.
This thread fails so badly... I'm just glad the real online gaming fans say no to this crap. Only a shill would post this thread IMO, whether paid to or not. Considering global advertising revenues exceed $300 billion dollars, theres plenty of extra money to hire a few shills to spread their "opinions" about advertising in games. I mean seriously, what kind of low-life would come up with this idea, to advertise to children in video games. I would love to meet that asshole in real life and let him know what I really think about it.
I think maybe both of us have read the same William Gibson novels?
honestly, idealism in the face of advertising is pretty funny. i'm going to quote someone i think nailed it:
"all you read or see or hear on tv is a product waiting for your dirty dollar... so shutup and BUY! BUY! BUY! my new record." mjk-tool-hwap
piracy is much worse than advertising.
I decide what I want to buy and when I want to buy it. I don't want one-way messages that are emotionally loaded to persuade my purchase decisions, I do everything I can to block advertising out of my life. If you want to inform me about your product, do it at the store where I buy it, not in my living room during my free time. If you have a service to provide me, list your number in the phone book and on the Internet, satisfied customers will spread the good word for you, that's all fine with me. In-game ads are no different to me than people knocking at my door, or calling me on a Sunday to inform me of a new credit card offer. Piss off!
Aside from my personal feelings, in-game ads do not increase the profitability or longevity of a game, they lower the salability. That's why games that are ad-supported are usually free. Many gamers have stopped watching TV and stopped going out to movies or sports events (many times its because they are saturated in advertising,) now the advertisers want in their games. They expect developers to sell games full price and put dynamic ads in, while the customer sees little to nothing in return for this. They want to track what ads people look at and how long they look at them by using spyware that is built into the game. This is all going too far.
I suggest researching marketing and realising there are many other ways of connecting products and services to new customers: LAN events, banners on web sites, contests for free stuff, and most of all "word-of-mouth" which is very powerful when used on the Internet. Learn everything you can about advertising and how it works, make sure you also read the negative effects it imposes on society. If you really want to understand the big picture, I suggest reading the book No Logo.
That's about all I have to say about this.
How you cope with media is the only choice you have.
And as far as advertising goes, I think subtlety and targeting is really the key. The adverts in Minority Report were the best thing about the movie.
Companies want you home, happy, sedate and soaking up product. Purchasing online, on TV and over the phone.
They want your friends to come over occasionally wearing ridiculous branding (like my adidas striped shoes, or some kids t-shirt emblazoned with the word abercrombie, or hollister).
Hmmm. That's slippery slope reasoning. How about showing some evidence of a game that is not only purchased but *ALSO* has ad-revenue?Aside from my personal feelings, in-game ads do not increase the profitability or longevity of a game, they lower the salability. That's why games that are ad-supported are usually free.
I know plenty of World of Warcraft players who have not only stopped going out, but also have stopped going to work, attending school, etc. etc. So I think you're confusing "addiction" and "internet socialization" with some idealistic act of rebellion.Many gamers have stopped watching TV and stopped going out to movies or sports events (many times its because they are saturated in advertising,) now the advertisers want in their games.
I don't have any problem with that, to be honest. So long as it doesn't affect my ping/ingame performance and doesn't run while I'm not playing... If I get a quality game that is supported by the developer and I don't have to pay a subscription to play, I'm pretty much happy.They expect developers to sell games full price and put dynamic ads in, while the customer sees little to nothing in return for this. They want to track what ads people look at and how long they look at them by using spyware that is built into the game. This is all going too far.
DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH VALUE I GOT OUT OF A SINGLE UT2K4 KEY?
thousands of hours. I'd argue that PC gaming's current business model is broken; and only a select few with killer product are really making the potential loot (Blizzard anyone?)
These look like good links. I'll check them out! Thanks.I suggest researching marketing and realising there are many other ways of connecting products and services to new customers: LAN events, banners on web sites, contests for free stuff, and most of all "word-of-mouth" which is very powerful when used on the Internet. Learn everything you can about advertising and how it works, make sure you also read the negative effects it imposes on society. If you really want to understand the big picture, I suggest reading the book No Logo.
That's about all I have to say about this.
shill, pushing biased opinions toward the subject.
Go to school and read books to learn more about a subject before blindly debating it, otherwise you come across obstinate in your opinions. Refusing to acknowledge the negative issues attached to a subject is simply ignorant, and ironically that is typical of advertisements, they never give you both sides of the story.
Ok...Forget adverts...What about subscription fee? Charge a monthly fee similar to WoW and other MORPG's to keep everything updated and fresh.
However, if Epic decided to provide all the servers, provide admins and anti-cheat support, and provide top-notch service along the way I would be for a monthly fee of $10 or so. I very highly doubt that would ever happen. Epic would be put under too much liability from people cheating in their servers, disrupting other players and destroying their game. How could they ban a cheater unless they had for-a-fact proof? Its better to allow communities to develop on their own and give everyone the opportunity to administrate their own servers, choosing whether to use custom maps and mods or play non-stop warfare.
You know, I hope they DO put adverts in the game... i then want to see how many of you complaining about it here i will see in game...
The fact is, if adverts are put in game and they detract from the game play, UT3 will be a flop... period... If they do it and game play is not detracted, then.. nothing. who cares... Just ignore it. It seems to me that any mature person who is that swayed by advertising is small minded. You DO have a choice. JUST IGNORE IT. I would argue that even older teens should not be swayed.
Of course, if they don't do it, they everyone in this thread (including me) just wasted their time....
See you can't just say ignore it. This is where people are being so ignorant, it just makes me want to rip my face off.
Say you're Coca-Cola and you just invested five million bucks with IGA to have some in-game ads. Now you want to find out how effective those ads are, so you hire a second party, like Bunnyfoot a company that specializes on telling how successful an ad is placed in game. They tell you the ad is only 15% doing it's job. Coca-cola goes back to IGA and says they want better placement or they are pulling their funds.
So now the ad company has two choices, give the 5 million dollars back to respect the integrity of the game. Or contact the developer and tell them they have to make some changes. Guess which is going to happen. The five million dollars out ways little Johnny's Gaming experience.
Like I said, go to IGA's site and you'll see they're already talking about interactive ads, something more than just static bill boards. Ads have no place in-game what so ever. Put them on cards in the box, put them on screen during install, not while I'm playing the game.
I have XM so I don't have to listen to commercials. I have DVR So I can fast forward through commercials. I have the Fire Fox plugin that lets me knock ads off a web page. If I really need some thing I look for it, I don't need a sales pitch in the middle of bumper to bumper traffic to tell me what I need.
I really like having choices when it comes to stuff like that. I do concede that ads in game are here to stay. I am a realist, but I also like having a choice. If a game doesn't give me a choice then I don't want it.
So I propose this, at release price of game with ads $30.00, with out ads $60.00 bam it's done. Players should have some kind of choice. This will make the sheeple happy because they can play games and see the latest massengill douche ad, and It will make gamers happy because they can enjoy the game the artists originally intended.
they *could* be have ads extremely well placed OR have some in game bonuses
*not cheats or powerups at start closer to visual bonuses like colored names or beta testing new map packs*
for donating to epic
(or an optional subscription fee of maby $1 a month)
I will never buy another Valve game due to their licensing/Steam policies. I used by buy a game, then sell it to someone for 1/2 or 1/4 price when I was tired of it, but with Steam you can't do that because they make you purchase a game key at full price. So, I will NEVER purchase a Steam enabled game.
Of course, on a [barely] related note, DVR's are already starting to change the TV industry. As more and more people are fast-forwarding past commercials, they will stop or reduce the advertising dollars given to the networks, and that is why so many shows are cancelled now after just a few episodes... It is all about profitablity; TV is a business just like anything else... well, except for PBS..
It is not the pc gaming model that is broken....
DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH VALUE I GOT OUT OF A SINGLE UT2K4 KEY?
thousands of hours. I'd argue that PC gaming's current business model is broken;....
It is the idea that one can sell an idea and then stop others from selling that idea again.
That is why everyone that tries to maintain that model is forced to use DRM (like 2k for example).
It is a model that requires piracy as an excuse, because that allows companies to enforce licenses that no one would even dream of using for 'real' products.
Instead of trying to find a way to fix something that can never be repaired we should be looking at new ways of making money.
Even now the media-companies are forcing the industry to use new 'protection' that prevents us as consumers from recording a show to be able to skip ads on a digital video recorder in order to forcefeed us their ads (AFAIK Philips already has a patent for technology that makes it possible to make ads non-skipable).
The truth is that the only thing that really sells and the one thing that can't ever be sold again is one word : service
Did everyone in here miss the most important law in economics that requires something to be scarce before it can even be sold ?
Why else do you think it is considered to be quite a feat when you manage to sell ice to an eskimo ?
Why do you think we used gold and other precious materials for money ?
So why are we even thinking that one can sell easily replicated content in an era when even the biggest loser on the planet an create a perfect copy ?
Ads aren't the future of gaming ... pay-to-play will be as any MMO proves.
I just think its going to be there if we like it or not, honestly though game dev's probably cant use coke textures without paying them a fee instead of the other way around... Yet in a movie car dealers etc sponsor the movies to show off their product. Not sure exactly how it works but Im sure EA has to get some kinda liscencing deal with car makers where for movies the car company might go we'll give you these if you use them and make sure you blow up the competitions cars :lol:
Like say the fast and the furious movies or gone in sixty seconds, you cant tell me there wasnt a line of car dealers waiting after the movie got signed to make an offer for having their cars shown and for how long etc. Dunno why games would be treated differently, not that I agree with it but hell a nice car is a nice car Im never going to be able to afford either way
Thing is I dont mind having those cars in games but when I see them plastered all over movies etc it annoys the hell outta me, like the audi in I robot hehe
Lets also not forget about the big logos before the game starts up with some games having a good 5-10 of pure advertising before even getting to the dev's logo and intro cut.
In regards to the comments about fees licensing or sponsor fees, I can tell you this. You cannot use a copyrighted or trademark in a movie or game without permission from the copyright/trademark holder. Period. This usually requires paying a license fee, but not always. The owner of the copyright or trademark may pay you to use something (that is what a sponsor does), and doing so gives you implicit permission. I am not sure how the movies do it with cars and such, but I don't think cars are technically trademarked. But I do know that you cannot use "real" cars in games without paying license fees. Maybe the studios get blanket permission, or maybe TV and movies are treated differently.
1) Anyone who thinks that having ads in games will reduce prices is deluding themselves.
2) I'm amazed at the number of people in this thread so eager to whore themselves out to consumerism and advertising. Are you suffering from some form of Stockholm Syndrome?
3) Having a defeatist attitude towards advertising is disgusting, and sadly, all too common.
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Keep in mind that I am a software developer myself, and I would never charge a "maintenance" fee on any of my personal software, nor does the company I work for. If you think that mainstream games companies don't make a crap load of money already, I'd suggest checking out their financials...
I play several different games concurrently, as I think most people do. If everything becomes pay to play, say there are 5 games you like to play regularly, then you would be shelling out around $50 a month just to play online. If this happens, I guarantee that gaming will change forever because most people will only end up playing one or two games at a time.
As far as the other comments in the thread, as I asked before, are any of you who won't buy a game with advertising are going to stop going to the movies as well because of the adds? Or stop watching television? As long as we have a "keep up with the Jones's" society, and as long as consumers keep buying, advertising is here to stay and they will keep coming up with more and more ways to put it in front of your face. I hear people complain all the time about the ads before a movie... But we still shell out our $8 for the flick... For those of you who decide to take a stand on principle, I applaud you. If more people did that the world would be a better place.
I do find it rather comical though that all these people have gotten so "up in arms" when no one yet knows what REALLY is going to be in the game
I have almost given up on TV. Two shows I watch semi regularly. It is really so bad any time I try to watch something else I forget what I'm watching by the time the ads are over Thus channel skimming, thus A.D.D.
UTIII could have ads for the latest Rocket Launcher, or Shock Rifle, no problem. Not sure anything else would really add to the game immersion.
Not sure why someone created this thread in the first place
Losing faith in gamers/people, one forum rant at a time...