cross-platform SPECTATING.

[Raad11]

I would highly recommend this, so PS3 users can spectate PC server UTV matches (or vice-versa, though I don't know how many people would serve PS3 matches on UTV). And incorporating UTV browsers/filters into all versions of the game. So you don't have to list it as 'Spectate PC match', but rather 'UTV Server List - Now Viewing PC Game' or something... so people won't be like 'we can watch, but why can't we play?'.

Command & Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars made huge improvements over old games in that series with all these built-in broadcasting features for competitive play (including commentating and everything... which could be a good idea for UT, make it easy to carry an audio stream with a UTV feed... which could also go to any PS3 spectators). That could be just what the doctor ordered for UT. Delivering all those matches into homes with PS3s.

The best part is, you could also put PC UTV spectating into a future Xbox 360 version without pissing off Microsoft I'd think! As long as the UTV browser is a game feature.

The potential behind UTV wasn't capitalized on with UT2004 although it fits the UT theme of combat exhibition and skill-based competitive DM play perfectly. It's quite fun to watch.

[VACkillers]

i'd haveto agree there, it would be pretty sweet to have the ability to watch any match if you wanted to, this feature is defiantely apearing a lot more games these days, currently in the beta's for world in conflict and i defiantely spectate more then i do playing that game, and its very enjoyable being able to watch how players deploy their tactics, but in UT cross platform viewing would be a very nice change, being able to finnaly!! watch, once and for all, if all you console players can match the mighty skillfull Pc gamers heee heee

sorry had to

[Henrik]

Seems like a useless feature if cross platform PLAY doesn't also exist. Otherwise I say go nuts.

[Boksha]

Seems like a useless feature if cross platform PLAY doesn't also exist. Otherwise I say go nuts.

Why? The games aren't completely the same so cross platform play probably won't work, but they're similar enough for players to enjoy watching a match of the other version.
Spectating a match on TV is more like watching sports even. I think it's a good idea.

[da ghost]

Believe me, spectating for some people is better than playing.

[Henrik]

I buy UT to play not spec.. but that's just me.

The versions are not that different that cross platform issues can't be overcome.. I know a solution that works, so that is not even a problem, the problem is that half the people want it and the other half don't, most of which don't want it because they don't think it can work.

[Raad11]

I buy UT to play not spec.. but that's just me.

The versions are not that different that cross platform issues can't be overcome.. I know a solution that works, so that is not even a problem, the problem is that half the people want it and the other half don't, most of which don't want it because they don't think it can work.

All the UTV broadcasts of UT2004 tournaments I've seen (including online leagues/ladders) have been completely packed by people wanting to see how really great players and teams are.

Chances are, you probably haven't seen those guys play. If you did, it'd probably blow you away.

Cross-platform would work with PS3 keyboard/mouse users. I agree with others who say the PS3 kb/m guys should be grouped in with PC guys.

Any decent keyboard/mouse player in Shadowrun for instance will dominate the controller players. I've done so. And they TRIED to make that equal.

[Henrik]

Yes I've seen most of the "best" competitive players play, and tbh it gets boring after a while. What is more fun, watching others make impressive shots, or doing it yourself? But yes, it can be worth it to see proper teamwork.. that's different.

I am not saying cross platform UTV is worthless, but they have barely even focused on UTV on the PC platform, so what makes anyone hopeful that they're going to do it cross platform.

Cross platform play is a more realistic and desireable goal, in my opinion.

[Raad11]

Yes I've seen most of the "best" competitive players play, and tbh it gets boring after a while. What is more fun, watching others make impressive shots, or doing it yourself? But yes, it can be worth it to see proper teamwork.. that's different.

I am not saying cross platform UTV is worthless, but they have barely even focused on UTV on the PC platform, so what makes anyone hopeful that they're going to do it cross platform.

Cross platform play is a more realistic and desireable goal, in my opinion.

Cross-platform play requires a lot more work to do in the form of balancing/designing than simply porting UTV code over to either platform.

[Boksha]

The versions are not that different that cross platform issues can't be overcome.. I know a solution that works, so that is not even a problem, the problem is that half the people want it and the other half don't, most of which don't want it because they don't think it can work.

If the games have different gameplay in any way, letting them be played against each other without removing those differences would be like playing a ball game where one team is subject to rugby rules and the other to american football rules. You'd be playing different games against each other.

Regardless, you still haven't said why spectating each other would be useless if you can't play each other. Loads of people watch sports and never play against the people they're watching. I don't think that's a problem.

[DeBiese]

Is there anything concrete on PS3 to PC cross-play?

Nothing concrete. We're looking into it. I think we'd like to have it, but there are a couple of problems. We were talking about supporting and doing updates and adding the functionality earlier, right? Well, on the PC, we can come up with an idea on Monday and release it on Monday night. Assuming we code it in time. On the console, you don't have that luxury. They want to put everything through certification, so if we want to make a change to add new functionality or fix a bug then we have to go through the process. The process is complicated enough and difficult enough so that it's not something you want to go through every three days.

So you want to stack up all your fixes, updates and add ons and release them a couple of times a year. Not a couple of times a month. So the problem is, if we decide to do something that changed compatability then it would be very difficult for us to co-ordinate the two updates to happen at the same time. That's one potential concern. There are other concerns as well. We want to make the best experience for our audience. You used the word "gimped" earlier, right? We don't want our PC guys to think we gimped UT3 and made it slower because it's harder to play it on a controller when the game is moving at super lightning speed.

I have to agree with the people saying the cross platform viewing isn't much more than watching a sports game. Could be fun to watch once in a while. And why not watching a PS3...

Likewise, we don't want our PS3 users to think they're getting a twitchy mouse and keyboard game because we didn't want to slow down the PC version. Consequently, the game runs at slightly different rates. Playing the game on the controller is a little different from playing on a keyboard and mouse. So, if we allow cross platform play then what do we do? Speed it up on PS3 or slow it down on PC? I'm not talking framerate, but rather the movement speed of characters and vehicles and turning responses. There are some things you can do easily with the buttons on the controller that you can't do with keyboard and mouse. So how do we handicap it to make it fair?

This is part of jostiq's interview with Mark Rein. You can read the whole interview here.

So I think it's save to say that making cross-platform playing is more than just speeding one end up or slowing the other end down...

I have to agree with the people here saying that cross platform viewing is like watching a sports game. Could be interesting. And if you think it's not, there nobody forcing you to watch, right...

[AleGenoa]

Playing is another story, of course (I still think you can do it, and you should do it, to add another playing option with more servers).

Spectating can be funny, I've seen recordings of a couple of high level 1v1 DM, very interesting, plus I watched 2 live matches of ONS Nations Cup (I don't know the precise name of that tournament) and it was exciting to support a national team...
The whole watching UT like a sport can be a huge thing, if properly organized.
The problem I saw in UT2K4 was that it was extremely difficult to actually connect to the server: it could take only so many connections...
Since spectating is bound to concentrate huge audiences to a few servers, we need a scalable solution.

IMHO UTV must me P2P based: that way, the final match of a big tournament can be watched by thousands of people.

[Boksha]

IMHO UTV must me P2P based: that way, the final match of a big tournament can be watched by thousands of people.

This would be very nice, but also quite complicated. You can't just have one client sending his data to a second client; I mean what if the first client drops? The second client would have to find a new provider for his data, but it'd be very hard to sync.

[booshack]

This would be very nice, but also quite complicated. You can't just have one client sending his data to a second client; I mean what if the first client drops? The second client would have to find a new provider for his data, but it'd be very hard to sync.

Torrent.. its been done before.

[Boksha]

Obviously, but torrents aren't for real-time watching.
You'd need a very big delay and even then there's a chance you won't get the data you need to get a constant view.
Didn't say it'd be impossible, but it will be very hard to set up.

[AleGenoa]

This would be very nice, but also quite complicated. You can't just have one client sending his data to a second client; I mean what if the first client drops? The second client would have to find a new provider for his data, but it'd be very hard to sync.

I don't know how they do it, but as a matter of fact there are several P2P TV platform out there, it's been done a number of times.
I think the key is to keep a redundant set of connections, if someone drops you get the chunk from someone else. This means some clever tricks, a lot of overhead operations and of course a gigantic lag, I think the typical P2PTV delay is on the order of 5-10 sec. But for just watching it's ok.

I believe such P2P UTV is bound to consume much less band than a typical TV, so it must be easier to reach optimal streaming conditions.

Of course it would make sense to output also some simple video streams, to be watched/uploaded on the most common public platforms, so that even outsiders can enjoy Unreal Moments...

A good start on Epic part would be a rock solid, always on Demorec: with it, a lot more people would see the potential of watching/reliving great fragging moments.

For UTV to be a hit, fanboyism is the key: awww, if only they could find a trick to let PS3s and 360s join the same servers (bypassing the anti-consumer attitude of M$ in particular)... imagine the heat of a cross-platform PS3 vs. PC vs. 360 who's-your-daddy battle... Then of course imagine Germany Team vs. France Team, Manchester United vs. Chelsea, Madrid vs. Barcelona, NY vs. LA, Scotland vs. England, Yale vs. Berkeley...

We are not South Koreans (yet), but still such a videogame supporters phenomenon is bound to explode, some time in the near future. Why not in UT?

I'd say: here's the challenge for the modding community: build a P2P client for UTV. I'm positive it can be done!

[Boksha]

I think having the community do something like that is more realistic than having it out of the box. Like I said it'd be quite hard to code, and the community plainly has more time to spend on stuff like that because they're not paid per hour.