[Repost. Edited] Please remove mutator capabilty from the game.

[Tahnit]

It has ruined every UT so far. It turns the game into lowgrav, instakill super powerfull sniper rifles, bigbox maps, pornhouses and kills the base game.

There are no more standard DM, CTF or assault servers left in UT2004. Its all replaced with flying trapese shooting.

All i want is standard weapon DM, CTF, and all the other game modes.

PLEASE do not allow mutators for UT3. It will kill the game so quickly and everyone except those who like these mutators.

If im being too harsh its because i LOVED ut2004. But once i saw what happened when all these stupid mutators came out it killed it for me.

DO NOT ALLOW MUTATORS. All it does is drive the game into the ground....

Edit: perhaps i was a little harsh in my first post. My appologies.

[Cuddles]

Most of the servers dont even use mutators as long as I played atleast, only some do and most of the mutators are very fun and good, but I hate some of the custom server enforced characters that are sometimes very unfair, some even turn invisible. Mutators are something that made UT unique and they are not gona remove them.

[Tahnit]

Most of the servers dont even use mutators as long as I played atleast, only some do and most of the mutators are very fun and good, but I hate some of the custom server enforced characters that are sometimes very unfair, some even turn invisible. Mutators are something that made UT unique and they are not gona remove them.

I just ask that something be done to preserve the base game long after release. So far this has happened to every single UT.

One solution i can think of is ranked servers. It worked for battlefield 2.

[mewantsdemoplz]

I agree on this, already stated my pov last night (UT3 Competitive mod feature wishlist)

[Tahnit]

I agree on this, already stated my pov last night (UT3 Competitive mod feature wishlist)

A comp mod is a great idea. However it wont do any good if no one is going to run servers.

If i had the $$ i would put up 1 or 2 standard DM, CTF, ASSAULT, DOUBLE DOM, BOMBING RUN, servers for ut2k4 right now.

And i bet they would become popular with the competition community.

[EntropicLqd]

...If i had the $$...

Ah you see there's the rub.

Since you don't have the $$'s you have no right to complain about how people that do have the $$'s want to run their servers.

Removing mutators is one of the most stupid ideas I've ever seen posted in this forum.

I suggest you either don't bother with UT3, or crawl back into your hole until you have the $$'s to run your own server.

[Criztafor]

I feel just the opposite, I feel that without mutators, the game would get old quick. Mutators are what I like most about the unreal series, because they allow you to make the perfect gameplay for your enjoyment. However, ranked servers sounds like a good idea, because then we would have the best of both worlds.

[martinblank]

He's right, though, so I wouldn't be so harsh if I were you, especially when you are not even correct.

[>>Gunslinger<<]

Mods allow the creative juices to explode into gameplay and take it in new directions. I rarely play on mod ons servers, but every now and then I do just to see what people have come up with. If you want standard/competition servers, there are almost always clans who have them bought and paid for. That's where I spend most of my time.

[SleightOfHand]

Ah you see there's the rub.

Since you don't have the $$'s you have no right to complain about how people that do have the $$'s want to run their servers.

Removing mutators is one of the most stupid ideas I've ever seen posted in this forum.

I suggest you either don't bother with UT3, or crawl back into your hole until you have the $$'s to run your own server.

It isn't because he doesn't have the money that he has no right to complain. Those servers are paid for by people who want that type of gameplay. If the ability wasn't there for mods or mutators, those servers may not even be there at all. Point is, I don't think it plays a huge effect on how many vanilla servers are out there, hence he has no right to complain.

And I would also say I can't agree with his viewpoint either. Mods and mutators are very necessary. Yes, some of them are ridiculous, but some are fun also, and some are downright needed. VCTF is a good example, it's probably my favorite gametype. If UT2K4 didn't have those mod and mutator abilities, I think it would long since be dead.

[Crotale]

Tahnit, I told you yesterday that this is a bad idea and why it is a bad idea, but you evidently didn't get. People love mutators, whether it's UTcomp or the benign Santa Hats. Kill mutators and you kill the game. I also informed you that there ARE plain vanilla servers, but they appear to be mostly empty because nobody wants to play on them. You could try lurking on one of those empty servers to see if anyone else comes tagging along. You never know, others might see activity on that server and join up as well. It happens all the time. You just have to have some patience.

[Raffi_B]

Getting rid of mutator functionality is the most counter-productive idea I've seen on these forums.

[XaliaS]

One solution i can think of is ranked servers. It worked for battlefield 2.

I am stunned to actually see somebody type that...

Ranks didn't keep servers from setting their own modifications, the shear lack of modding tools and ROE stopped that from ever happening... The thing ranks do is keep players away from standalone mods from ever becoming popular. Plus; the exploiting, stat-padding, hacking - that ranked created in-game. And out-side the game, greedy companies make a little more dosh with a number of sleazy promotions.

Now on-topic, we have your thread here as a form of extreme negative influence on mutators. Have you ever heard of a saying like: the minority always has the loudest voice?

You'll see why this thread will make no difference in a percentage that is already stacked on mutator favour.

I agree, mutators do need controlling, but cutting them off by the head would be the lazy way out, and way too many people do that nowadays as it is.

[Miko]

There is a reason my UT2004 folder is 15 gigs. Mutators drive the game on well past its initial life cycle. People put hours and hours of work into mutators to promote life into the game and to give that game a better overall flavor that and you see mutators in all sorts of games even if they arent called such. Controlling mutators is an understandable thing but many servers around now are a result of people who were tired of the norm a long time ago.

That and like what XaliaS said. Ranked servers have their own modifications too. There are Ustats servers in UT2004 and they still use Mutators.

I said it before. Ill say it again. If you don't want mutators. Don't download them, Don't go to severs that have them, Don't bother whining about them because they will be made because it's part of Unreal's heritage. Remember that a lot of mutators are not made for online consumption as well.

[Tahnit]

There is a reason my UT2004 folder is 15 gigs. Mutators drive the game on well past its initial life cycle. People put hours and hours of work into mutators to promote life into the game and to give that game a better overall flavor that and you see mutators in all sorts of games even if they arent called such. Controlling mutators is an understandable thing but many servers around now are a result of people who were tired of the norm a long time ago.

That and like what XaliaS said. Ranked servers have their own modifications too. There are Ustats servers in UT2004 and they still use Mutators.

I said it before. Ill say it again. If you don't want mutators. Don't download them, Don't go to severs that have them, Don't bother whining about them because they will be made because it's part of Unreal's heritage. Remember that a lot of mutators are not made for online consumption as well.

Then control them. Always make sure that there is vanilla servers available.

And no there are no mods in bf2 ranked servers. It is strictly vanilla. And thats what way it should be.

Just look at the server browser for ut2k4. Do you wonder why there is hardly anyone playing anymore? Its because all the servers have switched to stupid box maps, race maps, and 10 jump lowgrav.

The skill is completely removed from the equation.

Something has to be done.

[karmatized]

dumb idea, and while i do play battlefield i will also say it sucks because any small little thing they charge you for. The community has no power to change stuff for the better.

Un real didnt die out as much as it did because of mutators it died out because of not evolving correctly. We are hoping ut3 has.

[Miko]

You also have to keep one thing in mind. UT2004 wasn't ever built to be a competitive sport game. It was designed around its fan base and was for both the casual and hard core crowds and the mod community and map community alike.

Mutators do not remove skill at all. If anything if you play on a server with mutators you have to learn a whole new game to play on them properly. Looking at the server browser i can say i have played on plenty of Vanilla servers and every now and then i put up a vanilla listen server but i prefer to play with mutators that enhance the game play experience.

Maps are generally not mutators unless they have mods within them in which you need to download portions for them. Race maps. Box Maps, 10 jump lowgrav maps. UT04 isn't the only game with those maps. Half Life and its Army of Mods are absolutely full of Admin mods that change the normal game or mod play and add elements to them like Tag or volleyball or zombies and the very popular Counterstrike Gun Game. They don't remove skill. they make you pick up new ones.

The last time I checked BF2 wasn't a very mod community friendly game. I could be mistaken but I don't hear of too many mods that are for BF2 unlike i did for BF 1942. That and that is a whole different system. That is EA's strictly regulated matchmaking system VS something like Epic master server. The fact Epic allows so much freedom is something to be greatly appreciated because there are still a lot of games where people have to make third party tools just to mod the games and when you do mod them they become obsolete to online play of any form.

The only way to control mutators is to not go to any servers that use mutators. That or maybe you just have to accept the fact that mutators are a part of Unreal and they won't ever be going away. It just isn't possible for Epic to ignore or put away something thats been working for them for many years and has increased the longevity of the Unreal Series for this long.

Finally ill say this. The last time i heard of Online percentage from Epic. Less then 50 percent of their players played online. Thats a very large amount of people who haven't ever gone the jump to making it online in any way shape of form. Even then many many people play online. The reason people might stop playing UT2004 online is in anticipation for Unreal Tournament 3. Everyone is preparing for the large transition.

No one says you have to like mutators. You just have to tolerate them.

[ziadoz]

I don't think UT needs mutators removing. What we really need is more vanilla servers. Its the single biggest problem with UT in my opinion. Try finding any decent UT vanilla server that doesn't include roflsounds_52.123 on cube_map-betav1.23.4343_race_cars.ut. Its not easy.

It gets annoying not being able to play vanilla, the way the game was intended. I hope Epic support UT3 with vanilla servers, or just like UT2004 it'll be uninstalled on my shelf collecting dust.

[Miko]

I can agree with the alternative of Epic providing vanilla servers and also providing a no mutator option within the server browser. That would be easy.

[SleightOfHand]

Just look at the server browser for ut2k4. Do you wonder why there is hardly anyone playing anymore? Its because all the servers have switched to stupid box maps, race maps, and 10 jump lowgrav.

There's the error in your argument. You think you lost all the regular servers to the mod ones, but that isn't the case for the most part. If there was no mod or mutator abilities, the servers wouldn't even be there anymore. But because they had the ability to change, to evolve into something newer and different, they are still there. If I had my own server and got tired of hosting the same game, why would I keep it going and keep spending my money? Remember that the servers you are talking about are paid for by people other then Epic. Epic has their own servers. Maybe your actual complaint is that Epic isn't hosting enough servers.

[Boksha]

Just look at the server browser for ut2k4. Do you wonder why there is hardly anyone playing anymore? Its because all the servers have switched to stupid box maps, race maps, and 10 jump lowgrav.

Server admins usually prefer people playing on their servers.
If people don't want modded servers, why would server admins host them?

[Ultron]

Miko is right. If you don't want to be a part of the mutator scene then go to the other servers that don't use mutators. Be a part of the non-mutator scene. There are others who feel the same way and you can join those servers.

Also, typically the "big" servers (ala Titan) and the professional servers from Epic generally tend to run less mutators (or at least no crazy ones) than the general population, and they also tend to have high player counts because they are on dedicated servers hosted by professional companies (like the Planet) with custom-built servers for game hosting and administration.

I'm a big fan of stock gameplay, myself. But there are times I _want_ lowgrav Instagib CTF.

[Apathy]

Only 2 things I really wish to see.
1. No mutators being allowed in the demo. This also means taking stuff you don't want used completely out of the demo altogether! Last time, they just took the option away from people, but left the files that were required to use the stuff in the game.. All people had to do was use batch files, or commands in the game to get the stuff working.

2. When the game is released, do NOT allow retail games to connect to demo servers. IMO this hurt the retail game. Hell, put a timer on the demo. Maybe like 2 months or something.. More than enough time for someone to decide whether or not they want to buy the full retail game. Maybe a timer isn't the greatest of idea, but making it so retail owners can play on demo servers wasn't either. Most of the demos servers, last time I played on one (which was almost a year ago), had at least 10 people running around with hacks a day. Lots of the time, people were trading them..

So yeah, No mutators in the demo and no being able to connect to a demo server with the retail game.

[Frogger]

Getting rid of mutator functionality is the most counter-productive idea I've seen on these forums.

agreed..they aren't forced on you..you will still have the ability to only see servers that don't have them..the fan base would be smaller not larger without mutators..mutators keep the game fun and fresh for alot of us..variety and fun is a good thing.

So yeah, No mutators in the demo and no being able to connect to a demo server with the retail game.

^^ example of a good idea. (IMO)

[Sero]

Why no mutators in the demo? I thought it was a terrible idea even when it people could get around it. It's like only letting people play 1 gametype and with only 1 weapon, because it will hinder the ability to try the game in the way some people will want to play it, rendering the demo pretty much useless for a number of people.

*mainly thinking about instagib in this scenario, because I'm not really familiar with the rest of the standard mutators, but I imagine it could count for other ways to play the game aswell*

[rhiridflaidd]

Titan has a lot of "mutations." But they are very well thought out, very subtle, and are mainly scoring tweaks to encourage team play, and team balance optimizations.

If you remove servers, you halt the development of the game which has kept it alive for so long.

But what is important (I'll say this for the thousandth time) that the server browser has had enough time and optimization spent on it so that people can filter servers to highlight the exact type of servers they want to play on.

[Lert]

The ability to mod the game is one of the key elements that made it great in the first place.

[[s§s]Bison_Boy]

If you want nomods then why don't you form an "OldSchool" clan?

[Garcia y Vega]

no mutators? are you kidding? terrible idea

[2th]

no mutators? are you kidding? terrible idea

exactly why this thread is LAWL... without mutators to give things a bit of a change then what fun is UT? sure i love stock games as much as the next guy but from time to time i love a ridiculously silly game where i can dick around.

[Mr.UglyPants]

So you want Epic to get rid of one of the best parts of UT series from its newest game? That doesn't make any sense to ask for that. 1 of the core points of the UT games (from my standpoint) is that modders could do stuff and change things by making a mutator which you could use or not, its not the games fault (Ut2k4) that everyone didn't like UT2k4 and wanted stuff to change it to there preference on the servers.

The muts bring the game a ton of additional play time and fun factor to it.

[Ultron]

I would like to see stupid mutes not be made by Epic. Fathead for example.

[Frogger]

Why no mutators in the demo?

my biggest reason for wanting no muts and no retail connections is to get more people to buy the game. if you give all the flexibility and a similar playing experience (able to play with the same player base) to the retail..it makes the incentive to purchase the game less. This takes away from the community as a whole IMO.

[utzBluesman]

At least Instagib in the demo, please

[Frogger]

insta should be a gametype and not a mutator...

[nfleming]

But if insta was a gametype, then we would need like 7 more gametypes. Personally I like being able to mix in anything with whatever gametype. If it doesn't cause the game to crash, why not? As stated above, it lets people play what they want. Sometimes we want to be serious (vanilla setup), and sometimes we want lowgrav+quadjump+instagib+santahats+...

[Mr.UglyPants]

Instagib should be a mut.

[Frogger]

ictf is listed in the browser as a gametype...as it should be...i wouldn't be opposed to iDM/iONS/etc being listed as well. I think it changes gameplay enuff that it warrants its own gametype..im not dead set against it being a mutator..just seems to make sense to me to set it aside from the others....a decent mutator filter in the browser would also acceptable..

[Lee_Shagwell]

A comp mod is a great idea. However it wont do any good if no one is going to run servers.

If i had the $$ i would put up 1 or 2 standard DM, CTF, ASSAULT, DOUBLE DOM, BOMBING RUN, servers for ut2k4 right now.

And i bet they would become popular with the competition community.

the reason there are servers with mutators is because contrary to your belief not everybody wants to play the boring old standard mode. insta gib and low grav can be fun at times. maybe not all the time but i know there are a number of people who take instagib really seriously.

[Lostsoul]

Guy who started this thread needs to go to a more boring game. Try CS. -->