Spawn Protection

[ziadoz]

I don't know if this issue has been raised before, but are we going to get any kind of spawn protection features built into UT3? One thing that I found frustrating sometimes in UT and UT2004 was it wasn't hard to learn where the spawn spots were and camp them with the Rocket Launcher.

It would be nice to see a configurable amount of protection from spawn, or spawn areas rather than points (i.e. you spawn in a set radius, rather on a point). I know there were plenty of competitive mods to achieve spawn protection, but in my experience none ever really worked that well. For example the one I see on many UT servers doesn't do anything!

[bazzwano]

Ut2004 allowed you to change the spawn protection time, problem solved. Its part of the fun being in action from the moment you spawn, i don't play online, but as i said you can increase spawn protection so wouldn't that help against campers at the spawn points... Also if people want to do that that's there loss, unless this is D you talking about they aren't really helping there team.

Also the more spawn locations the more random it is, i would think these campers would be waiting a while for a chance to frag at a player start point.

Good example of why i dont play online, bots are more fun to me because they tell me what's going on I know whey my team mates are doing and everyone is doing what they are supposed to... Not standing around or playing cheap tricks.

[rhiridflaidd]

Bots doing what they're supposed to! Typically online, for a round of Torlan, all you need are 4 players.

2 on a manta to get the primary up quickly, one in a raptor to get the deemer if enabled and generally harass the other team, and a hellbender driver to take the DD and get the center node up.

Bots cannot do that half as effectively as real players. They can't stand on wings for starters

But that's off topic. For ONS, it's a matter of active admins and a server where spawn killing is not tolerated - unless a node is open or about to be open. And even then it depends on context. Attacking the base in Torlan when the core is locked spoils the game for the other team, and many admins won't allow it. But if there has been a goodgoing stalemate, this would be a valid tactic.

So what matters is the motivation of players to spawnkill. Usually it is to get points, rather than to achieve a tactical advantage. For the same reason, racking up a lot of kills in the endgame distorts a players stats.

So a better answer for me would be for in-base frags not to score points, and for higher points per unit of dammage to be attributed for core and node dammage.

For DM, a spawn frag could perhaps score half points, because it's different. But I think the answer is to modify the motivations, and as I've said before, for ONS, repetitive frags with the same method should not necessarily be rewarded - because a good player will frag in a variety of ways, whilst others will find some method and stick to it to rack up points.

So my bottom line is that it's the scoring that needs fine tuning. Since it's an instaspawn game, changing the game mechanics will be more clumsy and will lead to more distortion and unintended consequences.

[ziadoz]

Didn't realise there was spawn protection in UT2004 (rarely play it these days). Its a huge problem in UT though I notice (which I play lots). It definitely needs work though, it also needs to be made visible to the other players.

[CreepyD]

afaik, most ut2k4 servers have spawn protection enabled.
The problem is you don't know when you are protected by it, there's no glow or anything.
People often don't realise that firing your gun removes your protection.
It's nice to have it configurable, but it needs to be obvious that it's on/off.

[CvP]

you do have a glow+sound like shield when you get hit and have the protection.
and IMO, the way it is in UT2k4 is ok. i usually set it to 0.5~1 sec in DM cause it prevents double death from a single redeemer and that time is enough to bring out your shield gun.
0 sec in 1on1 though.

[Hedge-o-Matic]

One thing that helps even without spawn protection (such as UT1 without the appropriate mutators) is not spawning in the instant you're killed. Take a second, get yourself situated, and then spawn in with a dodge away from the spawn point. Even on UT1's Facing Worlds, you're almost impossible to kill off the bat, and get a chance to defend yourself by taking cover, or whatever.

I never saw spawn killing as a problem, even if I'd occasionally get killed quickly after respawn. That moment of calm after I'm fragged and before I spawn back in is all it takes. UT2's system is just extra insurance, I suppose.

I'm actually somewhat surprised that the game (especially DM) doesn't have a floating spawn system, where you can spawn virtually anywhere, but never within sight of another player. This would seem to be a simple solution to the entire problem. Even team games could use a similar system, especially by having a "base area" that would define where a team's respawns occurred. Static spawn spots seem so unneeded.