Teh Redeemer - Ideas, ideas, ideas

[Jrubzjeknf]

We've already got some info on three of the four most Unreal™ weapons, namely the shock rifle, flak cannon and rocket launcher. The weapon we know nothing about yet, is the Redeemer. Will it not return, or are they developing the most intimidating weapon of the Unreal series in a secret dark room underneath the EpicGames Dev Center?

I want your thoughts about what the weapon should be/in what way it should be changed!

What I reckon: when it explode, the explosion should make a mushroom out of itself, and should leave a short-lasting field of radiation. It's a nuke after all.

[icewind]

I wouldn't mind if it was removed alltogether, along with every other "superweapon".

[p2xelgen]

There's no real need for it...

[Flak]

There is when you go to get their flag and there's a tank, two hellbenders, a raptor and a scorpion parked on it.

[Cleary]

And on CTF, When people leave a Translocator in your base frequently, 1 redeemer sorts that problem out!

[Chromatik]

There is when you go to get their flag and there's a tank, two hellbenders, a raptor and a scorpion parked on it.

My thoughts exactly, superweapons have a place in the Unreal universe, I'm just not looking forward to sorting through hundreds of servers running "DM-TEHReDeEMARW@R$2k7" and the like . As far as the redeemer goes I'd like to see a mushroom cloud or some kind of awe inspiring effect, maybe have all player views shake momentarily. I would also like to see killed opponants being gibbed some of the time and skeletonized some of the time (think 2004 secondary link death effect) with bodies, vehicle parts, weapons and other debris flying in all directions. Good times

[ne_skaju]

It should be force disabled in CTF and Warfare/ONS. Like quad jump, instagib and lowgrav disabled in UT2004 ONS/AS

[VoodooPriest]

There is when you go to get their flag and there's a tank, two hellbenders, a raptor and a scorpion parked on it.

My hope for this game just went down another 27%

[Jrubzjeknf]

Only if you want to play VCTF 27% of your UT2007 online time

[Evil Homer]

The Deemer needs to be really massive.... Seconded for seeing everything vaproized and melted...

[Cleary]

Nah, I like the cloud Idea, but If everything being vapourised and melted would just like... completely end the level lol.

[Vectorspace]

The only thing I'd definitely like to see changed with the redeemer is for the blast wave animation not to travel through walls. I know the damage doesn't, but you still see the orange blast come through the wall.

[iron12]

If you’re standing next to a wall when the redeemer is set off it should put a outline of your body on the wall. Actually I like the way the redeemer is in UT99. The H-Bomb bubble. Plus if you shot the bubble your rockets would bounce off. And your gibs where flung high into the air and would rain down on people. I was awesome. I also like the way the use to have the satellite that would pivot and vaporize people on the ground.

[Taleweaver]

I almost forgot about that weapon. No wonder, as every server from my favorites uses the 'no superweapons' mutator.

Anyway...not too long ago, I wrote the following guideline considering these things:

Superweapons (ion cannon and redeemer): the most disliked items of the entire list. Many servers, as well as all the competitive ladders, avoid these weapons with the 'no superweapons' mutator. Even on casual maps you should at least think twice before placing them, as barely anyone can appreciate their duel being interupted by someone firing a lucky redeemer. The ion painter is rather the opposite: it's difficult to aim correctly, only works at mid-range and in open ground, and 9 out of 10 times you'll be shot down before the cannon hits. And how many times have people committed suicide with these weapons when things didn't work out the way they planned? On top of that, they are impractical for indoor environments, have a ridiculously long respawn time and tear down any shred of balance in 1on1 maps. Oh, and they smell bad.

Still convinced your map should have either of these weapons? Okay then...at least make sure you put them on spots without any natural traffic; preferably a spot you can only reach with some trickjumping. On the other hand, they should be rather visible, since they need a big launch base (especially the ion painter).

A final thing to take into account is that the 'no superweapons' mutator (which will be used if your map becomes popular) replaces the redeemer with a rocket launcher and the ion painter with the lightning gun. So in addition to all the previous, you should also treat these items as if they were extra weapon pickups.

As to whether it should be in UT3: no opinion. I doubt my favorite server admins or the ladders will change their stance, but including it WILL draw in new blood who like to impress with the size of their guns.

Just...please do something about that target painter. That "weapon" is so bad it's laughable.

[Kyllian]

The only thing I'd definitely like to see changed with the redeemer is for the blast wave animation not to travel through walls. I know the damage doesn't, but you still see the orange blast come through the wall.

That'd be nice, but my preference is if the blast would wrap around things like a normal explosion would
Right now, you can duck behind a small tree and be safe from the deemer
A blast of that magnatude should rip around the tree and frag your arse, not to mention wrap around a corner to a point

[{SM}LeadSniper]

yeah a tree should not save your arse. and i want to see raining bodyparts when it hits a person and their last seconds have their shadow eched into the sorched battlefield. a mushroom cloud might be overdoing it, the h-bomb explosion is just as good. i need my redeemer... so i can alter the code and make my TNSR lol.

[NeoPhoenixIIM]

This is how I think it should be, but won't be since it doesn't seem Epic pays much attention to our opinions/views, here.

Players in the center of the blast should instantly vaporized along with their weapons. Players killed by the shock blast should skeletonize or gib.

Visually it should have a small mushroom cloud and a cool debris effect, and the shock blast should be a flat ring of fire instead of a large orange dome.

The effected radius should still be the same, and it shouldn't go through walls as previously mentioned.

For vehicles, they should be destroyed with the normal effects, and any vehicle that gets hit but not destroyed should freeze up for several seconds from the EMP that is associated with nukes.

The last one would also allow foot soldiers to have a greater chance of surviving against vehicles esp. those as powerful as the Levi.

No radiation though, tried a mutator like that and I would die 4 times in a row from a nuke that landed on a spawn point.

[Cleary]

This is how I think it should be, but won't be since it doesn't seem Epic pays much attention to our opinions/views, here.

I like to think they do, I made a point about Marketing earlier n the thread was deleted in seconds... quite impressive.. It shows they are watching our every post!

[Up&Over]

This is how I think it should be, but won't be since it doesn't seem Epic pays much attention to our opinions/views, here.

Sure about that? How did you come to that conclusion? Just because they don’t post don’t mean they don’t read and take onboard what people are saying.

[NeoPhoenixIIM]

This is really for another thread, but my conclusion came from what they do and say on this forum regarding our views, and not from what they don't tell us.

BTW the earlier mentioned mushroom cloud should be fairly quick, no longer than 1-2 seconds before completely disappearing.

[Puke]

Hitscan deemer anyone?

[InvadrZIM]

they should redo how it looks

with the new graphics capabilities they should be able to do more then an elipticle firey looking ring thing.

cmon epic. make me feel like im actually being engulfed in intense fire and radiation, having every fiber of my being ripped away as the flames come closer and closer


something like as your walking tword it, the screen flashes white then dims back and all you can see is a wall of angry fire heading toward you getting more and more intense (like colors go from explosion colors (yellow/red/orange ect) into white(white when it reaches you) as the blast gets closer)

and of course with the new physics, things would get thrown all over the place/vaporized as they are hit with the blast

and as for people far enough out of the blast radius you see a shimmery ring type thing that originates in the bast center, just above the ground headed for you and as it hits you, depending on how close you are, your thrown back a little bit

[Hedge-o-Matic]

cmon epic. make me feel like im actually being engulfed in intense fire and radiation, having every fiber of my being ripped away as the flames come closer and closer something like as your walking tword it, the screen flashes white then dims back and all you can see is a wall of angry fire heading toward you getting more and more intense

Hell yeah!

If the redeemer is supposed to be a nuclear weapon of any kind, there should be a two-phase damage system.

The initial flash should damage things based solely on their range from the blast center, say 1000 points in the center, but losing 1 point for every unit away you are, so it drops pretty rapidly. This should be instant. Players killed by the flash should drop to the ground in flames.

Next, the blast wave should sweep out from the center, and then, very quickly, back in. Each pass should inflict 400 points of damage, and death by blast should always gib.

Lastly, the fireball should rise from the impact point, causing damage to all who enter it (like if it rolls through an occupied bridge, or you pilot a raptor through it. The fireball should continue to linger and rise, slowly dimming in power, for about fifteen seconds. If the fireball particles cannot rise, they should stick around inside whatever is containing them.

[UnrealGrrl]

Ilike the 'deemer, Redeemers are fun - thats why they are there... for more serious games not a good idea tho.

most servers i play have superweapons off and thats fine with me too

[Silvester[AUT]]

BUMMM! ludicrous kill.... er. I meant HOLY ****!

Nuke me I say, NUKE EM!

Where is the best place to put a Redeemer?
Onto Rikers head, of course.

OK seriously, it adds to game depth. And you can always shoot at it, forgotten that?

[iLL]

Deemers must be in although I never see them because everywhere I go has superweps off which is good.Forces you to get better.

A must for vehicles I'd imagine.
Good for the newbies to have some fun.
Good for taking out very highly skilled armor whores that never die.
Strangelove style is the best and funniest.

The effects need worked on for sure.If its a nuke it should act like one as mentioned in a number of the above posts.I like the effects mentioned and any would be an improvement over 2k4's.With UT2k7s graphics I cannot imagine the nuke looking like anything other than phenomenal.

Close radius should dust players.No bones just a figure of dust that falls to the ground.
Medium blast radius should skin you to the bone showing a standing then falling skeleton.
Outside radius should burn and start you smoking on the side that was facing the blast.

Would be funny to hear it go off in the next room,then see someone running past you looking for health on fire,smoking,and their whole backside black and charred.

BTW,Neo again...could not agree more.Especially the opener.

[Tarball|UTzone]

Guys u are no Fun, Superweapons are funny even for the Public

I think the deemer should stay as it is It´s UT

[Hanji]

It will be good if the Target Painter will summon one in one of the Warfare game mode map, then it will hit the painted target painted by the Target Painter(If the map objective is to bomb a base or something).

[FrostBiteEST]

Redmeer is in ut2007 its in beyond unreal and plane unreal ut2007 prewievs!!So basicaly there only one new one canister gun!!All others have taken from Unreal and ut series!!

[Finchy]

I wouldn't like to see them remove it completely, I can imagine the redeemer's explosion look pretty damn cool in '07. However, they could attempt to change how it works. Does anyone remember in Star Wars 2 when Obi-One's following the bounty hunter through the astroid belt with the seismic detonators? When the redeemer made contact with it's target it could cut off the sound for a brief moment, then erupted with an ear-splitting explosion that tore through everything in a certain radius. That'd be cool.

[Silvester[AUT]]

I wouldn't like to see them remove it completely, I can imagine the redeemer's explosion look pretty damn cool in '07. However, they could attempt to change how it works. Does anyone remember in Star Wars 2 when Obi-One's following the bounty hunter through the astroid belt with the seismic detonators? When the redeemer made contact with it's target it could cut off the sound for a brief moment, then erupted with an ear-splitting explosion that tore through everything in a certain radius. That'd be cool.

Are you trying to frighten us?

[Jrubzjeknf]

Hmm...a deemer explosion making everyone in it's vincinity 'deaf'. Now that'd be cool.

[TDW-Unreality]

I wouldn't mind if it was removed alltogether, along with every other "superweapon".

In Onslaught the redeemer is perfect to destroy a powernode quickly. But for all other gametypes it should be removed.

[Trailboss3]

It should leave terrain damage in a map.

http://www.unconfirmedsources.com/nu...b%20crater.jpg

[Hamburger]

It should leave terrain damage in a map.

http://www.unconfirmedsources.com/nu...b%20crater.jpg

Yep that will work, just how would you botpath that? And how the heck would a player get out of it? The weapon bases on the floor would they stay floating in air? Or would they go down with the terrain? And if they want down with the terrain would they be completely untouched and still have a weapon spinning around on it? Or would the weapon base be completely destroyed?

[Gregori]

Anyone see how the Terminator's Hydrogen Cell in Terminator 3 explodes!

Thats what the Redeemer Explosion should look like, only the initial flash should be blindingly bright.

On large maps it would be cool seeing a mushroom cloud rising on the Horizon that can be seen on any point in the map, so you always know when someone has let off a redeemer!

[ShredPrince]

Yeah I say the Deemer like should decimate strong holds and crap.

As long as it's tougher to get to than most other pickups, then balance will be fine, provided a delayed respawn, which you know it'll have.

[Hamburger]

Yeah I say the Deemer like should decimate strong holds and crap.

So what your saying is I just have to use the redeemer to destroy the defence of a base then what? Its like that the whole game? If this is what your saying then the map would be completely gone before the games over, Utterly pointless.

[Trailboss3]

Yep that will work, just how would you botpath that? And how the heck would a player get out of it? The weapon bases on the floor would they stay floating in air? Or would they go down with the terrain? And if they want down with the terrain would they be completely untouched and still have a weapon spinning around on it? Or would the weapon base be completely destroyed?

Think outside the box

We already know there is some terrain damage in UT2007, the maps just have to be designed for it.

[Hamburger]

I see so in a dm map If I could blow a hole in the map like that, just how would one design that to actually work?