UT2k7 Translocator poll and ideas

[iLL]

I was just wondering what you guys thought about the trans in 2k7 because I have not seen nor heard anything on it.The poll options do not cover everything of course so vote other and explain your suggested changes if any,if you don't mind.If you play DM ONLY well ideas are still welcome.

Also we might want to discuss if the hoverboard AND trans should be included in UW or do you think it the hoverboard will just replace the trans?

Thanks for the input.

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I personally would like to see both hover and trans in UW.
I also think the trans is fine the way it is,but a few more throws and or a faster charge rate,would be nice which is what I voted.

[Boksha]

I seem to be missing a poll.

IMO the translocator should have infinite charges, but a short delay between firing the disc and being able to translocate to limit the amount of times someone can translocate per second.
Additionally, the teleportation effects should be fairly minimal, and the disc-trail should be replaced by a bright glow around the disc itself; it's more important to know the current location/velocity of an enemy (or the disc he's throwing) than knowing what path he (or the disc) took to get there.

[iLL]

Its like jepoardy when posting here. I get logged out fairly fast most times as I am composing polls.

I could not agree more with your entire post.The glowing disc idea I especially liked and I am all for infinite throws,but Epic has to consider new players and new players cannot keep up with all the warping around unfortunately.

[da ghost]

I seem to be missing a poll.

IMO the translocator should have infinite charges, but a short delay between firing the disc and being able to translocate to limit the amount of times someone can translocate per second.

yeah, I agree. Giving a limit on the translocator slows down the game. If you're going to make it fast, make it consistent. But I think the beam and the effects should stay imo. It makes it much easier to see and snipe people (and disks) translocating at a distance, balancing it out.

[*BareVibes*]

I wouldn't mind if the translocater didn't appear in ut2k7. They already have hover boards.. Why do they need a translocator also?

[Crotale]

The hoverboards are supposed to be used in vehicle maps. Non-vehicle CTF should have the option to use XLoc.

[NeoPhoenixIIM]

I think it's fine how it is. Too many translocation charges make it too easy to play catch up to the FC in CTF. If they were to give it infinite charges, they would have to either slow down the speed of the projectile or make it have a translocation delay so you can't teleport around like a jackrabbit on crack. That was the biggest, lamest problem in UT. Too many lame players would use nothing but the teleporter to move and kill opponents. The only thing I didn't like in UT2kx was that Epic made telefraging too hard. It shouldn't be as easy as in UT, but it should not be as hard as in UT2k4.

[Vezra]

Translocator needs a 1 second wait before each time you throw it, but unlimited throws and make it glide far.

[Jake-SF]

Well, uh... you could name me the Translocator Hater. People claim this thing make UT's ctf unique... which is true... but if the uniqueness means boring constant translocating cowards where most will not fight at all until a flag is taken. It isn't fun at all.

That is why I like VCTF alone. What I sure want however - NO ctf map with vehicles should EVER allow translocator. I don't know about hoverboard in normal ctf however.. hell it could be quite interesting - you can move really fast like the translocator, but you're not given even more advantages for being a coward...

[Body_Counter]

what about having exactly the same teleporting and telefragging behavior as in ut99, just with a disc limit as in ut2k4?

it was almost like that in ut2k4, but using the ut99 translocator felt much better...
the limit of discs is necessary though... lame makes nothing better

[Hedge-o-Matic]

I'm not an xloc fan, I admit, but it's far better than it was in UT, where it was often the ultimate weapon and defense, all in one. I think an short delay between disk launch and translocation is a neat idea. If a person had to wait a full second before using their disk, you wouldn't need a throw limit, I don't think, although I still wouldn't object. I think the xloc is cool as a method of getting to difficult spots, not general a movement mode

Maybe the xloc needs ammo or something, instead, or even a power meter. A meter would be a good idea. Launching costs 1 power, retrieving costs 1, and translocating costs 3. The power recharges at a rate of 1 point per second.

[MonsOlympus]

Hmmz, Ive never been a fan of the translocator myself. I used to use it more in ut99 dunno if thats because it was infinite or not. I guess with all 2k3/2k4's new movement I never though the translocator was appropriate and is one of the reasons I dont play any CTF from either UT game online. Thats not to say I havent but I dont enjoy a trans game as much as adrenaline.

The glow idea sounds interesting instead of the trail and I think it would help to make translocates easier for newer players without fear of teleporting to a broke disc. It also bring up a question of would it glow when it lands as that will just make it uneven again.

I always wondered what it would be like if you couldnt auto return the disc, say you had to teleport and pick it up or walk back over it to pick it up. Yeah people are gonna hate this I know, we'll get the whole this isnt cs thing why does it have to be unreal. The truth of it is I think it would balance the trans more, I just dont like how as soon as you turn trans on it dominates the game. For those of us not used to playing with trans either because we dont like it or are new to ut it makes it very hard (to the point of impossible) to compete with a seasoned trans player, so in my eyes this is a major factor turning players away from trans games.

[awaw]

Well, uh... you could name me the Translocator Hater. People claim this thing make UT's ctf unique... which is true... but if the uniqueness means boring constant translocating cowards where most will not fight at all until a flag is taken. It isn't fun at all.

That is why I like VCTF alone. What I sure want however - NO ctf map with vehicles should EVER allow translocator.

Hey, that's my opinion, get your own!

[McFly2000]

None of the above. It needs to be the same as UT99

[Boksha]

Well, uh... you could name me the Translocator Hater. People claim this thing make UT's ctf unique... which is true... but if the uniqueness means boring constant translocating cowards where most will not fight at all until a flag is taken.

Which, because of the translocator, is all the time.
Besides, it's capture the flag (CTF) right? Not kill the enemy team (KTET, better known as TDM).

Too many translocation charges make it too easy to play catch up to the FC in CTF.

The current difficulty of catching up to an enemy FC is the cause for lots of the too long, too straight/open CTF maps in UT2004. You're supposed to be able to catch up to the enemy FC quickly.

Too many lame players would use nothing but the teleporter to move and kill opponents. The only thing I didn't like in UT2kx was that Epic made telefraging too hard. It shouldn't be as easy as in UT, but it should not be as hard as in UT2k4.

IMO telefragging is a bad idea. You want people to switch to an actual weapon to fight, not just use the x-loc only like you could in UT.

[Jake-SF]

Which, because of the translocator, is all the time.
Besides, it's capture the flag (CTF) right? Not kill the enemy team (KTET, better known as TDM).

I KNEW someone would say that

I know about that but heh, in most CTF game I know killing people alone is usefull, but in unreal they can come back and get their weapons in 5 seconds total, which makes killing far more useless..

[Boksha]

You just have to kill the right people. Like people gunning for your FC or people trying to take your flag. Killing people that just spawned is fairly useless.
Additionally,trying to kill non-stocked up defenders is not always a good idea; it's more useful to distract them enough for a teammate to grab the flag, then kill them after they chased the FC out of the base (once they're out of the base it'll take longer for them to stock up and reach your FC again)
I think it works fairly well, and I can see why you'd disagree with me but I think if you do, UT CTF (at least the variant that's played with the x-loc) might just not be for you, so there's little point in trying to nerf the translocator.
All that'll achieve is making the game less fun for people that do like the way it's played right now, while still not making it as fun for translocator haters as playing without it alltogether. (and I think a lot of those people still would prefer other gametypes over CTF anyway)

[AmericanWoman]

Other:
It needs to be retired.

[Hedge-o-Matic]

None of the above. It needs to be the same as UT99

This way, people won't need to worry about weapons or armor. They'll just blink around, almost unable to be hit, instagibbing other players. Great idea; I bet new players would love this sort of gameplay!

[Taleweaver]

Thirded on Boksha's idea on having a delay between firing and translocating.

The trace is fine as far as I'm concerned.

[StalwartUK]

Same as UT classic's except maybe with some kind of delay feature from when you fire to when you can teleport. I think that would deter those guys who teleport around like nuts.

[EntropicLqd]

IMO the translocator should have infinite charges, but a short delay between firing the disc and being able to translocate to limit the amount of times someone can translocate per second.

I'd agree with that. The translocator in UT felt more "natural" to use, but I never figured out why. It was partly the change in firing angle they introduced, but there were some other factors (possibly map scale) that made it feel more awkward to use.

But the tele-monkeys pretty much ruined UT-CTF for me in the end. It's a great tool for getting around and taking short-cuts across the map, but in a straight line it should never be quicker than running.
Edit - clarification: Running in a straight line across short distances. Perhaps adding some acceleration to the disc while it's in the air would help a bit

Additionally, the teleportation effects should be fairly minimal, and the disc-trail should be replaced by a bright glow around the disc itself..

I'd agree with that. The teleport effect in UT always killed my framerate (untill I replaced the PC), and I'd much rather be able to easily see the teleport disc than where it came from.

[Shadow]I[]

It needs to not switch to the other weapon when you press both buttons very fast, that gets annoying

[Boksha]

It needs to not switch to the other weapon when you press both buttons very fast, that gets annoying

You can turn that off in the INI file.
It'd be nice if the option was there in the menu by default tho'.

EntropicLqd: I do think the translocator should make you move significantly faster, no matter whether it's short distances or long distances. Like I've argued before, it plays a central role in the current way CTF is played; if you nerf it to remove that role, you essentially have a different CTF gametype alltogether, more similar to playing without translocator.
If you want the translocator to serve only as a way for people to be able to take shortcuts, it'd be a better idea to remove it entirely, and make hammerjumps free for non-flagcarriers, and have a REAL, unnerfed translocator CTF gametype for the people that love it that way right now.

[Emmet Otter]

Other:
It needs to be retired.

Simply said, I agree with it!

[PanzerIV]

Haha, I really doubt that they will replace the Translocator for an Hoverboard in CTF.

So my opinion... I REALLY HATE the translocator. I love CTF but I stopped playing this great gametype because people would just abuse of this lame weapon. As everyone that played me knows, I hate cowards, chickens and stuff like that so having someone that teleports away while I'm fighting him, it just piss me off. There should be no more than 3-4-5 charges per life "until you die" and the cool down "wait before shooting another one" should be something like 10 seconds so you would be able to use it correctly without abusing of it in cheap/lame way. CTF is currently a big spam of translocator.

[MonsOlympus]

Well I suggested making it so you have to actually pick it up to fire it again because then people will think more about placing it strategically. Once they learn to do it right you wont need to chase the flag carrier because you'll have the foresight to be ahead of them, ofcoarse your trans disc could have gotten shot but thats the risk. I just saw the auto return as the problem not that Im right but its worth checking out. Ofcoarse this idea could cause problems with loosing your disc and not being able to get it back so perhaps instead of a delay between firing and teleporting it should be on the return of the disc.

Any thoughts on the camera mode?

[Kyllian]

Not sure how it needs to be tweaked, but tweaking is needed
It gets pretty old having to chase a guy around your base that keeps leaving his beacon in different places

Ex: FaceClassic
Guy leaves beacon on top level, gets into a fight in the main area, TLs away, leaves beacon somewhere else, takes potshots, TLs again, repeat

So you're not only trying to find him, but also his beacon in an attempt to slow him down

One thing that would be nice is if the beacon were to react to the amount of force applied to it by an opponent
Hit it with link pulse: it bounces a bit
Hit it with 3 rockets, it flies away

[NeoPhoenixIIM]

You can turn that off in the INI file.
It'd be nice if the option was there in the menu by default though.

EntropicLqd: I do think the translocator should make you move significantly faster, no matter whether it's short distances or long distances. Like I've argued before, it plays a central role in the current way CTF is played; if you nerf it to remove that role, you essentially have a different CTF game type altogether, more similar to playing without translocator.

The translocator should only let you catch up if you were killed on your half of the map. A FC that kills you on their team side should not have to worry about killing you another 1-2 times before getting to their flag.

Well I suggested making it so you have to actually pick it up to fire it again because then people will think more about placing it strategically. Once they learn to do it right you wont need to chase the flag carrier because you'll have the foresight to be ahead of them, of coarse your trans disc could have gotten shot but that’s the risk. I just saw the auto return as the problem not that I’m right but its worth checking out. Of coarse this idea could cause problems with loosing your disc and not being able to get it back so perhaps instead of a delay between firing and teleporting it should be on the return of the disc.

Any thoughts on the camera mode?

This would defeat the purpose of the translocator. If you need it to get to a hard to reach area, and need to recall it you couldn't. If it got stuck in some wired place you couldn't recall it. Also if it hit a kill zone and was out of plausible reach you couldn't recall it. The recall option is very important, without it you mine as well not have the translocator at all.

All it needs is to be balanced. Fast enough to keep a good pace to the game, but slow enough to be fair to a flag carrier that killed you once or twice already. Have a delay so you can actually shoot the person in between teleports, and something that allows for skilled tellefrags that are not just luck (UT2k4), or something a 2 year old could master in an hour (UT).

[PanzerIV]

Any thoughts on the camera mode?

Camera is really useful and shouldn't be removed. I almost always watch quickly with the camera before teleporting. Not only to position myself "facing right direction" but to know if there is enemy arounds.

One thing that would be nice is if the beacon were to react to the amount of force applied to it by an opponent
Hit it with link pulse: it bounces a bit
Hit it with 3 rockets, it flies away

I like the idea but I prefer as it is right now for when you hit the beacon. It gets "corrupted/damaged" so if the other guy teleports there, the teleportation process bug and he dies. They should have made so you can an error while calling back a broken beacon so you have 1 less on you since it's kind of stuff to recall a broken beacon and have it work right after.

[Xyx]

I like trans-less CTF gameplay better. On smaller maps, of course. No tele-monkeys, less hitscan dominance, less empty space with no other purpose than slowing down gameplay, faster matches and you can cap even if you're not l33t, trickjumping and/or fully stacked.

I do like the translocator concept, though. I'd prefer if the translocator recharged verrry slowly. Destroyed trans discs could not even regenerate at all. That way you'd have it as a quick way to get back into the action, to get into cool spots and/or to take shortcuts, but not as a default transportation mode. That is all it should be needed for on a good map anyway.

I don't see why you should be able to catch up with an enemy flag carrier. Either you get killed on defense, or you're out there somewhere and get killed trying to intercept the flag carrier. You had your chance, you failed, better hope someone takes their flag too.

[Silvester[AUT]]

I do like the translocator concept, though. I'd prefer if the translocator recharged verrry slowly. Destroyed trans discs could not even regenerate at all. That way you'd have it as a quick way to get back into the action, to get into cool spots and/or to take shortcuts, but not as a default transportation mode. That is all it should be needed for on a good map anyway.

I don't see why you should be able to catch up with an enemy flag carrier. Either you get killed on defense, or you're out there somewhere and get killed trying to intercept the flag carrier. You had your chance, you failed, better hope someone takes their flag too.

I voted nothing, but reading this I have to agree to that.
It needs a limited teleporting range. So you cannot leave it in the enemy base, and then transport 200 Kilometers back to it.

[MonsOlympus]

Hows about a vehicle translocator >_< or not lmao!

[BodyMassageMachine]

Not to viciously insult anyone here, but those who either want to exclude the xloc or restrict it more than it already is in UT2k4 haven't played UT CTF.

The Unreal Tournament series is defined by capture the flag, it is the only game type that it is still heavily played in both UT99 and UT2k4. Most that play either UT99 CTF or UT2k4 CTF *alot* would tell you that although both games have their faults, (and some of them do lie with the translocator, in particularly the xloc limit; along with the shield gun), getting rid of it would rid Unreal Tournament of its CTF identity and lineage.

For those that have problems with someone running away with the xloc as they're about to frag them, you're doing some things wrong:

1) not focusing on the purpose of the game type
the objective of Capture the Flag is to Capture the Flag. Capturing the flag generally involves going to the other teams base, picking their flag up, and walking back to your base's flag stand while your flag is still on the stand. Fragging is only a means to this objective, unlike DM or TDM where fragging the other team is the objective. You're focusing on the incorrect aspect of the game to get upset over; instead focus your energy on covering your FC, grabbing the flag, or defending your flag. Become the FC, kill the EFC, cover your stand, or cover your FC. These are all positive actions taken in accomplishing the goal of the game type. Empty fragging in the middle of the map and being annoyed by someone running away are not positive actions on your part in helping secure your team's victory.

or

2) you couldn't get your own trans out quick enough to chase him down. You have no one to blame but yourself.

If you don't like playing with the xloc on, make an xloc off server and have fun with it; or go participate in the amazingly robust Quake4 CTF community, as that game does not have an xloc. Another option is to play TDM, ONS, AS, or one of the many other mods included with UT2k4 and UT99.

Or, suck it up and learn how to play with the xloc. UT99 CTF is still played and they still have yet another season of MLUT. UT2k4 CTF, along with TAM, are the only game types with some semblance of life to them. This isn't by accident, it's because Epic made a great game type better with the xloc that almost everyone fails to see for what it really is. The depth of play added by having that silly gun is astounding. Leaving their trans in the base only to tele to when the flag is grabbed is only one aspect of how it improves game play. TAM is only still heavily played due to its simplicity, and I will not go into any more detail about that game type here.

The trans improves game play by doing the following:

a) it allows you to quickly get into the action.
from the moment you spawn to getting to your objective takes on average 2 seconds.
2 seconds from the next weapon pick up
2 seconds from the enemy's flag
2 seconds from the 100 to battle over
4 seconds to grab a gun and catch up with the EFC
6 seconds to respawn, grab a gun and get back on cover

this allows for fast-paced instant-action game play. Watch a high-level team on CTF-Maul, there is never a moment of down time. On CTF-GrendelKeep they're always accomplishing a task.

b) it allows the defence to catch up with the offence
Because of the sheer number of grabs the offence can make due to the translocator in the first place, it is balanced by the defence being allowed multiple attempts at retrieving the flag. When there are flag-stand off situations, it allows the defence to quickly get to the other team's base to attempt a flag retrieveal as easily as the offence would attempt a flag grab.

c) it allows for trans-trickery
leaving the trans in your base (or the opposing team's base when grabbing) to trans back to when the other team grabs (or you cap) adds another dimention to the game. This, along with pre-transing adds depth to the game.

d) it allows cover to cover multiple times
rewarding teams when they get closer to their flag stand.

e) cover can get flag pick ups; defence can get flag returns
using the trans to pick up your team mate when they drop the flag or picking up the EFC's dropped flag.

f) pistoning
the opposing force can't just piston away to never be seen again. Although they move quicker, this is balanced by the trans being able to catch up and the health damage taken by the FC.

g) much more
could be added.

From here I could go into a rant as to why UT2k7 should be built around CTF (as I believe 2k3 and 2k4 were) and why it is the greatest team game ever. Why it is the simplest, deepest, most profound game type of all UT. How because it's so easy to understand, my grandmother would enjoy watching a match. But I'm not. Instead I'm just going to heavily suggest that many of NA's UT2k4 's top players would rather have CTF as the main competitive game type instead of TDM or ONS. And the translocator has everything to do with that.

[Nietzsche]

[...]Instead I'm just going to heavily suggest that all of UT2k4 's top players would rather have CTF as the main competitive game type instead of TDM or ONS.

... all of UT2k4's top ctf players might be true, all of ut2k4's top players is not.

I don't consider myself to be a TDM player, but still I think that this should be the "main competitive game type",assuming that with main competitive game type you mean the mod used for balancing the game (weapons, movement, air control etc.). With CTF, you can have a balanced CTF mod and still all other mods are just plain wrong; simply because the weapon balance is wrong. I think the risk of this happening is much lower if you concentrate on balancing TDM ...

[MonsOlympus]

Originally posted by BodyMassageMachine
If you don't like playing with the xloc on, make an xloc off server and have fun with it; or go participate in the amazingly robust Quake4 CTF community, as that game does not have an xloc. Another option is to play TDM, ONS, AS, or one of the many other mods included with UT2k4 and UT99.

Well thats kinda a narrow minded view, if I could find ctf servers with adrenaline on and trans off Id play on them and even join ladders which played with those options.

Thats not to say I havent and wont play on a translocator server its just Ive never been good enough with it to be competative which is a problem with the community as a whole (not just ut). If I was actually given a chance I might actually get good at it but as it stands I get blitzed by trans player vetrans who seem to be the ones on the servers. Most of us non trans players have to resort to bots because of exactly this kind of attitude.

Now I can see you make valid points and ofcoarse since you play more with trans you are more likely to know where the weakness of it is along with what could be fixed. I personally didnt say to remove it and if you look alot of the people who dont like it would prefer it to be fixed up instead of removed. No need to get all defensive because of it, so why not add some useful info about where you might see problems or what you dont see as a problem...

btw welcolme to the forums....

[BodyMassageMachine]

... all of UT2k4's top ctf players might be true, all of ut2k4's top players is not.

I don't consider myself to be a TDM player, but still I think that this should be the "main competitive game type",assuming that with main competitive game type you mean the mod used for balancing the game (weapons, movement, air control etc.). With CTF, you can have a balanced CTF mod and still all other mods are just plain wrong; simply because the weapon balance is wrong. I think the risk of this happening is much lower if you concentrate on balancing TDM ...

Yes, sorry I should correct myself to -many-. Done. And North America to boot, I don't talk with the euros much

[BodyMassageMachine]

Well thats kinda a narrow minded view, if I could find ctf servers with adrenaline on and trans off Id play on them and even join ladders which played with those options.

Thats not to say I havent and wont play on a translocator server its just Ive never been good enough with it to be competative which is a problem with the community as a whole (not just ut). If I was actually given a chance I might actually get good at it but as it stands I get blitzed by trans player vetrans who seem to be the ones on the servers. Most of us non trans players have to resort to bots because of exactly this kind of attitude.

it's like riding a bicycle, PM me if you would like a lesson.
And although it may come across as defensive, it's not, many people that don't play the game speak before playing it outside the sandbox of single player mode. On one hand I can understand how frusterating it is to learn how to play, but at the same time I enjoy the aspects of having done so. Let me tell you, as I had a friend intoduce me to the game back in 2004 I didn't like the idea of the trans at all; having gone through learning and refining and still learning, it makes the game. I have nothing to defend. Only to attack.

[Jake-SF]

I still think playing CTF with no translocator is better, but its awfull to see how no people play it and how we are limited to play with bots...

[MonsOlympus]

Originally posted by BodyMassageMachine
And although it may come across as defensive, it's not, many people that don't play the game speak before playing it outside the sandbox of single player mode.

Lets just hope ut2k7 will change your out look, I wonder how many people actually try to play against the top level bots. I think they call it Inhuman and godlike for a reason lolz