hmmm spam fest??

[ShredPrince]

Well ok.

we've had these dodge jump, and movement disscussions abound here.

After just playing a match in Rankin wit about 16 people it dawned on me that maybe UT07 is going to be "Spam Dominant".

I mean it's been said that the movement in 2k4 is too much, but when the CHOAS goes up to 10, it really is not too much, in fact it's needed....any thoughts?

I just am trying to picture deck with 20 player all walking in mud getting spammed to death....sounds like not a whole lot of fun to me.

[VoodooPriest]

just picture ut99 then

[ez_jamin]

i hate ut99 hey need to move on imo.

[GuntiNDDS]

Well ok.

we've had these dodge jump, and movement disscussions abound here.

After just playing a match in Rankin wit about 16 people it dawned on me that maybe UT07 is going to be "Spam Dominant".

I mean it's been said that the movement in 2k4 is too much, but when the CHOAS goes up to 10, it really is not too much, in fact it's needed....any thoughts?

I just am trying to picture deck with 20 player all walking in mud getting spammed to death....sounds like not a whole lot of fun to me.

its not that all they do is taking out the dodge-jump and everything else keeps the same. it influences map design and propably also have an impact on the weapons and all kinds of stuff. and in the end, if they do it right, it will propably work out.

[{SM}LeadSniper]

all i care is if i can blow the s@#$ out of people.

[blackout]

rankin hasn't been built for 16 players, easy as that; when there is an enemy behind a corner, what else should there occur than spam?

[Gregori]

i hate ut99 hey need to move on imo.

Loads of people hate UT2kx, plain and simple. They hate the hitscan dominance and lack of spammy fun like the original. This is why Epic is moving on from the UT2kx era and making the game a little closer to the original that everybody knows and loves the series by.

[fuegerstef]

Loads of people hate UT2kx, plain and simple. They hate the hitscan dominance and lack of spammy fun like the original. This is why Epic is moving on from the UT2kx era and making the game a little closer to the original that everybody knows and loves the series by.

Actually the reduce spam from 2k4 to 2k7.

[Gregori]

Actually the reduce spam from 2k4 to 2k7.

That sentence doesn't even make sense.

I seriously doubt they're making this game less spammy than UT2k4. Where have you got this idea from?

[McFly2000]

i hate ut99 hey need to move on imo.

No, you need to move on.
UT99 is and was vastly more popular than it's successors.

By making UT2k7 more like UT99, Epic are doing the exactl right thing.

[The5thviruz]

Loads of people hate UT2kx, plain and simple. They hate how it requires skill to kill people unlike the original. This is why Epic is moving on from the UT2kx era and making the game a little closer to the original so we don't get so many people crying when they can't use the weapons correctly.

Fixed that for you.

[Gregori]

Fixed that for you.

Makes no difference to me, Nearly everybody like UT's spammy ways better, which is why Epic is changing it to be more like the original. Most players of UT2kx didn't like being killed from a million feet away by a few hitscan obsessed freaks because the movement/scale is screwed up.

Most people have things called lives that prevent them from getting as good as the pros with hitscan, they don't give a ****, and just want to pop this game in the drive and have some crazy fun. Epic is targeting the game at the right group of people this time!

[iLL]

In 2k4 the movement forced you to hone your aim and anticipation skills (as I've mentioned before).If they remove this they will most likely please the 99players and allow for noobs to be able to actually get more than 5 frags in a match because yes,they will be able to get some spammy frags whereas in
2k4 it is much harder to do so.This is why so many noobs come into 2k4 new,play for an hour,and say f*ck this game and jet.

I am all for "in your face" fighting,but not spam.Its also easy for someone who especially is new to the game or having a bad day to mistake chaos for spam though.Not meaning you,just mentioning it.

BTW in case you have not figured this one out.Noobs + 99ers probably > in numbers than the 2k4 players therefore for Epicto make bank who do you think they will most likely try to cater to in UT2k7.

I think it will definitely be a bit more spammy,but not enough to suck the fun out of it and hurt skilled players too much.

[fuegerstef]

That sentence doesn't even make sense.

I seriously doubt they're making this game less spammy than UT2k4. Where have you got this idea from?

Very simple, you only have to compare the existing games (UT and UT2004), combine that with the "facts" we know about that UT2007 will be closer to UT again (in terms of "in yer face" and weapon strength) and then substract what is not in the game.

-Currently it is harder to kill or hit people due to the crazy movement => a lot of shots miss => a lot of shots are spammed without hitting.
-Reduced movement = More shots hit => less spam
-The spammiest weapon from UT (Ripper) won't be in.

[Gregori]

Very simple, you only have to compare the existing games (UT and UT2004), combine that with the "facts" we know about that UT2007 will be closer to UT again (in terms of "in yer face" and weapon strength) and then substract what is not in the game.

-Currently it is harder to kill or hit people due to the crazy movement => a lot of shots miss => a lot of shots are spammed without hitting.
-Reduced movement = More shots hit => less spam
-The spammiest weapon from UT (Ripper) won't be in.

Reduce movements= smaller maps = more spam.
Rocket launcher fires three grenades= spam.

[Jrubzjeknf]

reduce movements = slower players = easier for hitscan

balances itself out imo

[fuegerstef]

reduce movements = slower players = easier for hitscan

balances itself out imo

Useless to tell him, he won't get it anyways.

[Gregori]

reduce movements = slower players = easier for hitscan

balances itself out imo

Reduced map sizes will make projectiles more effective against hitscan.

Since no one know the weapon stats, its hard to tell whats this game will be like however. Epic have implied that they are going back to the the fell of UT, which means it will probably be a little more spammy than UT2k4. The grenades on the Rocket launcher imply this.

[Gregori]

Useless to tell him, he won't get it anyways.

Stop being pathetic!

[fuegerstef]

Reduced map sizes will make projectiles more effective against hitscan.

Since no one know the weapon stats, its hard to tell whats this game will be like however. Epic have implied that they are going back to the the fell of UT, which means it will probably be a little more spammy than UT2k4. The grenades on the Rocket launcher imply this.

What about the Enforcers... ...AR was Grenade spam with every player-respawn without having to find the RL first?

ANd as you said: More effective Projectiles => easier to kill without missing/spamming them all over the place.

EDIT:
The new link primary also has faster projectiles (from the video, just as the Pulse gun from UT) and seem to be able to hit people without spamming around for minutes.

[Gregori]

What about the Enforcers... ...AR was Grenade spam with every player-respawn without having to find the RL first?

ANd as you said: More effective Projectiles => easier to kill without missing/spamming them all over the place.

EDIT:
The new link primary also has faster projectiles (from the video, just as the Pulse gun from UT) and seem to be able to hit people without spamming around for minutes.

People will spam all those weapons in anyway just because they can!

[fuegerstef]

People will spam all those weapons in anyway just because they can!

Yes, just as they do now in UT2k4. Just that the shot/hit ration will be better... ...resulting in less spam.

[blackout]

let me collect all the information of this thread...
blah, blah, blah.
great.
you better wait for the demo before you argue about the practical part of the gameplay.

[BigJim]

--incoming bias, opinions, and some mild rants--

Firing off lots of shots doesn't by definition make it spam, spam is when you can't avoid what is coming at you, be it with posts on a forum, email, or a(n) FPS.

UT was more spammy than 2Kx, because you were very limited in your movement options, and therefore in most situations could not avoid the fire that came your way, even if you could see it a mile away, not simply because there was more of it.

In addition, we seem to have more than one "type" of spam, or to be precise, we use the same term for more than one use.
Spamming is the act of just firing off in the random hope that someone will walk into your shots (it's not spam if you know they're there, to quote one of the T32 guys) - wheares something that is Spammey is something or a situation where you can't avoid the incomng fire no matter what you do, like those teeny-tiny maps full of flak, or a weapon that shoots off in such a wide arc & speed that all you can do is watch the shots fly at you with no hope of avoiding it or getting to cover.

(And yes, I do see the irony in trying to define what are essentially just made up words )

If I miss nearly all my shots at some leet player, it doesn't have to mean I'm spamming, it means he's very agile, and good at avoiding my clumsy fire.
If however I stand in the middle of a room, spin on the spot & hold down fire, then I am spamming (and ought to be shot by everyone else in the map, even my own team ).

[MonsOlympus]

Yum spam!
Great idea shred epic should code it in so you can throw tins of spam around.

Its either gonna be hitscan or spam if your not good with either then well mwhahahahahaha

[Kronos]

After just playing a match in Rankin wit about 16 people it dawned on me that maybe UT07 is going to be "Spam Dominant".

If u were to think about it, players in UT2007 will actually be more vulnerable
to hitscan considering they cant move as fast which makes them not able to get around corners, keeping them in line of site most of the time, and second I think considering that people wont be getting around the map as fast as they do in UT2004 they will be even less vulnerable to spam sence they cant just chase some one down with fast speeds like in UT2004.
And if by all means it is "spam dominant" that does not mean that it is bad, honnestly i think "hitscan dominant" is a little gay itself, its not that hard to point the crosshair on some one and pull the trigger.

[The5thviruz]

its not that hard to point the crosshair on some one and pull the trigger.

That's way out of the league of most people here.

[Kronos]

That's way out of the league of most people here.

Hitscan reminds me of thoughs advertisements where u have to shoot the moving monkey to win a new PS3.

[wickedsteve]

I have said it before, I'll say it again.
"It is not spam, it is suppressive fire."

[ShredPrince]

Loads of people hate UT2kx, plain and simple. They hate the hitscan dominance and lack of spammy fun like the original. This is why Epic is moving on from the UT2kx era and making the game a little closer to the original that everybody knows and loves the series by.

Just as I thought: UT99 players got scared of the extra movement.

Oh well, we know the masses like their games simple, and easy, and SPAMMY.

HEy I want my UT to be like Halo as well, that way it's easy to play:NOT!

[Gregori]

Just as I thought: UT99 players got scared of the extra movement.

Oh well, we know the masses like their games simple, and easy, and SPAMMY.

HEy I want my UT to be like Halo as well, that way it's easy to play:NOT!

Blaaaaaaaa blaaaa blaaaaaaaa. The masses pay Epic's bills! UT2k7 will not be like Halo. UT2kx's movement made the game too hard for the majority of players, and allowed a small minority of pixel pointing freaks to dominate with hitscan.
UT99 was a far more fun game than its sequels, end of story!

[ShredPrince]

not really...LOL

Thats the problem here, Epic is appealing to the "new audience" not the old one...LOL

Just watch gameplay dood, it does'nt even seem like 99 man...it's like Halo witha dodge added in.

[Axeman]

Um- do you blame Epic for trying to appeal to a new audience. They are, after all, out to make money and try to appease their community (which is, obviously, divided in half- if not more). Something that is nearly impossible to do. And let's face it- UT2KX hasn't had the shelf life that they probably expected.
I don't envy their position.
They will end up w/ 2KX'ers whining about [insert gripe here], they'll have UT99'ers whining about [insert gripe here] and the "new audience" whining about [insert gripe here].

Spam- this topic is laughable. There will always be spam, spammers and spammy weapons. It's impossible to avoid. It's not so much the weapons but rather the people who play and the people who map.

I honestly think the weapons for 2K4 are relatively balanced. Yes, there is a hit scan dominance, but that is because the maps have to be wide-open to account for the movement options. It's generally the map layout and set up that creates spam (or hit scan) dominance, not the weapons.

And you'll always have people who simply just hold the trigger and run crazily through a map.

I guess there's only one thing to do- Keep dodge jumping and double jumping and wall dodging- add in some crouch jumping and ceiling jumping and cartwheels. Then arm us all w/ 10-pump daisy air rifles and impact hammers and the winner isn't who's killed the most folks, but rather who has the most health at the end of the match.

My opinion- all these polls and speculation and arguing is silly and pointless. We have NO idea how the game is going to play by watching a couple 2-5 minute trailers at this stage of development- when I'm sure the game is evolving everyday.

Here's a novel idea- why don't we just wait for the demo- play it and then have some level-headed discussions on what you think is good and what you don't think works.

And at that point- I can guarantee you one thing- not everyone will be happy.

-Axe

[Gregori]

not really...LOL

Thats the problem here, Epic is appealing to the "new audience" not the old one...LOL

Just watch gameplay dood, it does'nt even seem like 99 man...it's like Halo witha dodge added in.

Its looks nothin like halo, you a merely **** talking!

[Kronos]

I think this thread ended at Axemans post.

[Gregori]

I think this thread ended at Axemans post.

Then you ruined that by posting!

[ShredPrince]

Yes I do blame them for appealing to idiots.

These people that they are trying to get to play the game still are'nt gonna play it now, like they even look at it...LOL....it's retartded.

You put someone new to Unreal in there, the average gamer, and they're like WOAH! This is too crazy: Even UT99.

They need to realize that this is a niche type of game, and always will be just due to the premise of it.

[Modulus]

With the spam in 99 it was HARDER to stay alive and therefore more of a challenge to completely dominate the competition than in 2k4. Where you people are coming up with the rational that because it's easier for noobs to get ONE or TWO kills accidentally in 99 that it's a system FOR NOOBS, is beyond me... It just allows the noobs to appreciate the game a little more and have some fun with the rest of us that know how to avoid incoming spam fire and this and that.

Any really good UT99 player will tell you that while there is more spam in 99 you deal with it... I mean it's rare that spam in that game will kill you outright when you've got full health or full health and armor... It's more like a gradual chipping away at your life that you have to watch out for.

I hate the gay hitscan dominance of 2k4... It's completely alienated a huge portion of people I would otherwise be owning if they just were able to get a few lucky kills here and there and didn't get completely frustrated.

[Modulus]

Yes I do blame them for appealing to idiots.

These people that they are trying to get to play the game still are'nt gonna play it now, like they even look at it...LOL....it's retartded.

You put someone new to Unreal in there, the average gamer, and they're like WOAH! This is too crazy: Even UT99.

They need to realize that this is a niche type of game, and always will be just due to the premise of it.

Huh? So then why did UT99 appeal to me? It was about... damn 8 years ago when I played my first FPS ever, UT. It appealed to me a great deal back then... Just as I'm sure 2k7 will appeal to new players as well.

Dude, chill out... They got rid of dodge-jumping and tweaked the weapons... If you're any good at anything other than shock primary and LG than you're just going to have to adapt or keep on playing 2k4.

I for one can see the genius in what Epic is doing. Going back to it's roots to both increase the number of people that buy, play and stick with the game... As well as to give some of the 2k4 ppl what they want (double jump, etc.) AND the UT99 players what they want (more hectic gameplay with more powerful weapons). Will it work? No one can really say until we get to play it.

[theeDEATHMASTER]

Spam fest...hehe, I dont think some of you have even played UT 99.